Command and Control

[Call911-AGE- 0]

Was just curious has anybody seen anything detailing what command an control features we can expect in ArmA. Is it gonna be simalar to OFP with the tildy key selecting all an vice versa. Just curious.

[frederf 0]

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that you can have a commander at least one level higher than a squad leader (leaders of leaders). Can anyone confirm this?

[Guest]

The PC Games magazine says here

http://www.pcgames.de/?article_id=499542

that the command system with the "F-keys" has not changed but giving orders to more than 60 soldiers is now possible.

So if this is true one can play as platoon leader or if there are really more than 60 soldiers as company commander.

Sounds good!

[JobJenkins222 0]

Sounds great

[Commando84 0]

oh damn, didn't knew about that one

would be cool to really have that many troops under your command. really sweet when you can do large scale coops and cti's. I guess 'em ww2 mods and stuff will find it useful to.

[westy159 0]

As long as there isnt a long list on the bottom to scroll through for every 12 soldiers

I expect it will be up to 60 to control but if you have this number you wont be able to control them individually, you will probably have to sort these men into 12 smaller groups of your choice.

[figjam 0]

I'm hoping we can command groups of men instead of single units (Platoon leader commanding sections or a section leader commanding the different groups - or fire teams as the Americans call them).

Would make leading AI that much easier - especially with the new AI.

[Blanco 0]

Up to 60 soldiers, wow that's great news.

[Guest]

I'm hoping we can command groups of men instead of single units (Platoon leader commanding sections or a section leader commanding the different groups - or fire teams as the Americans call them).

Would make leading AI that much easier - especially with the new AI.

Yea I hope we will see both the classical OFP command structure where one can give orders as a group leader and a new system where one can give orders to group leaders as a platoon leader or even company commander.

That would be awesome.

[Blanco 0]

As long as there isnt a long list on the bottom to scroll through for every 12 soldiers

I expect it will be up to 60 to control but if you have this number you wont be able to control them individually, you will probably have to sort these men into 12 smaller groups of your choice.

Here's the answer :

Quote[/b] ]...But you can control more the 12 units in one group. In the mission you’ll control the units 1-10 with function keys F1 to F10 and if there are more than 12 group members the F11 and F12 keys will show the previous or next ten soldiers...

source : http://ofpmdb.net/include.php?path=content/news.php&contentid=240

[Guest]

Yes, thanks. A very good interview.

So we actually have to assign soldiers to fire teams. Otherwise it might get confusing to give specific orders to up to 60 soldiers.

Anyway this is a great addition to the game. Imagine sending a 10 man squad to flank left, a heavy fire team on a hill on your right and you move on with 12 soldiers!

It's getting really tactical with this feature.

[wamingo 1]

"TARGET, T-72, 1 O'CLOCK"

"TWO, THREE, EIGHT, NINE, TEN, ELEVEN, TWELVE..."

10 seconds later...

"...TWENTY-FIVE, TWENTY-SIX, TWENTY-SEVEN...."

30 seconds later...

"...FOURTY-NINE, FIFTY, FIFTY-ONE, MOVE TO, BUSH, 3 O'CLOCK"

"OH NO, THREE IS DOWN"

"OH NO, FOURTY-ONE IS DOWN"

"DAMN, FOURTY-ONE IS DOWN"

"FOUR, NEGATIVE"

"THIRTY-EIGHT, INJURED"

"UNKNOWN, 4 O'CLOCK, 200"

"OH NO, FOURTY-ONE IS DOWN"

"FIRE!"

Looking forward to it

[bravo 6 0]

"TARGET, T-72, 1 O'CLOCK"

"TWO, THREE, EIGHT, NINE, TEN, ELEVEN, TWELVE..."

10 seconds later...

"...TWENTY-FIVE, TWENTY-SIX, TWENTY-SEVEN...."

30 seconds later...

"...FOURTY-NINE, FIFTY, FIFTY-ONE, MOVE TO, BUSH, 3 O'CLOCK"

"OH NO, THREE IS DOWN"

"OH NO, FOURTY-ONE IS DOWN"

"DAMN, FOURTY-ONE IS DOWN"

"FOUR, NEGATIVE"

"THIRTY-EIGHT, INJURED"

"UNKNOWN, 4 O'CLOCK, 200"

"OH NO, FOURTY-ONE IS DOWN"

"FIRE!"

Looking forward to it

LOL

yeah maybe thats why they need to be orgazined by groups/colors

-<span style='color:green'>Team green attack that man 12 o'clock.

-Engaging.</span>

-<span style='color:pink'>Team pink move to that sheep 3 o'clock

-Moving on</span>

and there you go.. by that way you can send 40 or more men in 2 simple orders instead of using forty five go to sheep 3 o'clock

[berghoff 11]

Hehe that might be interesting.

[0311 0]

The Marine Corps handles infantry command in groups of 3(Ideally).

The fireteam leader has 3 men to command. The squad leader has 3 fireteam leaders to command, the Platoon commander has(generally)3 squad leaders to give orders to, and the company commander has normally 4 platoons to coordinate.

The army does things differently I'm sure.

In order for this to work in game, you would need smart AI that could tactically make decisions and take initiative on their own and be creative/inventive, be able to judge the situation and make decisions based on your direction.

A fireteam leader would need to have the capability to see that an ambush is coming from a certain direction and the best response would be to take his team into an adjacent building and fire from there. He would need to make complex decisions in conjunction with the rest of the squad and then communicate his decisions to the squad leader.

[Sudden Death 0]

Here is a demonstration picture from the press-demo to show the command system with function keys

/edit:

If you order every unit to move, player says  "Everyone move to ..." and only first quotes 1: "Roger".

But if you select a lot of units then he count units

sidechat shows: "13..17,22..25 hold fire"

radio says: "1,2,3,5 hold fire" and also first quotes "Roger."

It seems that radio count only 1 to 12 above 12 the position of units function key is told, so 3,23,33 are always "three". But this is still work in progress. I´m shure it will be changed to the final version.

S.D.

[Guest]

Thank you for this additional information!

If I got it correctly the red label on the lower right of my screen tells me on which "page" of my soldier list I am.

In your example there are 22 soldiers and the last two soldiers are on page three.

Doesn't sound too difficult but will definitely not work without assigning soldiers to fire teams in the heat of a battle.

[frederf 0]

This is very disappointing actually. If you wanted to correctly model a platoon then you can command enough guys, but you cannot let fireteam leaders control their fireteams, squad leaders control their squads. With a layered system the number of units you could control (albeit indirectly) would be infinate, would replicated real life, would simplify command and control.. this is all benefit!

F1 - Platoon Leader (You)

F2 - First Squad

F3 - Second Squad

F4 - Third Squad

F5 - PLT Medic

F6 - Platoon SGT

This is just an example, but would allow "groups" to coexist in a command bar with individual units. Wouldn't this be completely complicated to code and impliment you ask? Well not really, you give first squad a move order (as if he was an individual) and the squad leader gets a move order and the rest of the squad follows. Give second squad a hold fire command and he tells his troops to all hold fire. The orders menu is context sensitive to unit type as it is so this is already half way there.

This doesn't really neccesatate the AI being supersmart (it'd be nice though) any more than the old squad system needed smarter AI. And besides, who's assuming that there's only one human? Multiplayer would be a BLAST with human squadleaders and platoon leaders and AI squad members.

The ability to have a "super squad" is nice of course as an upgrade... but "squads of squads" would be 10x cooler. The chain of command is one of the first thing the Army teaches new recruits. It's a reletively simple concept and well within the prowess of programmers. With the increase in scale of ArmA over OFP the lack of a chain of command greater than two layers (leader and peon) is going to go ever more missed.

[berghoff 11]

You can actually make those squads like red, blue, green.. in OFP:E this was done for you.

edit: typo.

[Call911-AGE- 0]

Yeah guess I never thought about it DUH) what about in game voice chat would help out immensly. Is there gonna be such a thing in AA?

[benreeper 0]

The reason why you do not see a "structure" as such in this game is because it is still Operation Flashpoint. Adding more units to a group is easy because just the array is made larger as opposed to a re-design. You can easily sub-command them (in a mod), however, because team making is scriptable, thus allowing you to pre-configure your group.

--Ben

[Second 0]

Can AI have this "chain of command" and can AI use it correctly? If it can't, i don't give a SH*T. I can command&control 60+ men and i face only individual squads with 12 men who work acording pre-planned waypoints... Where is the fun part?

I more likely play some tactical-level wargames, in which AI units work as a one: Forming companies or even battalions! If i change my tactics they can change their tactics too!!! But we will see... AI seems to be undergoing severe improvements and it seems as BIS thinks that if player can do something, AI haveto be able to do it too (To BIS)

[lwlooz 0]

Not that I want to stop BIS coming up with an integrated command engine if they intend to do one,but inter-squad player control is something that can be easily done by us(the community) and already was done in OFP. With the new UI options the possibilities and ease of use will increase a lot.

Yet this ~60 unit thing is a very very nice thing,for static AI,for Civilian Mobs, for 4 World-War 1 Tanks with a crew of 14 (Technic-freaks please excuse my inknowledge if there isn't a tank with a crew of 14), or even Script-solutions where it is of use to have some objects/units in a large group

[NeMeSiS 11]

and i face only individual squads with 12 men who work <s>acording pre-planned waypoints... Where is the fun part?</s>

together using the guard/sentry waypoints or user made scripts like DAC... Its great fun!

Fixed it for you  

ALthough i do hope that the AI knows how to properly use it instead of making 1 huge squad

[Second 0]

and i face only individual squads with 12 men who work <s>acording pre-planned waypoints... Where is the fun part?</s>

together using the guard/sentry waypoints or user made scripts like DAC... Its great fun!

Fixed it for you

ALthough i do hope that the AI knows how to properly use it instead of making 1 huge squad

I just curious about this DAC and it's kind. Can they make AI units to be leaded by one single "mastermind"... i haven't met that. Guard waypoints are simply guard waypoints. They don't make units perform dynamic counterattacks, flankings. They move somewhere when certain conditions are met, and they do it without co-ordination with others. If one part of defence collapses can AI take parts of other locations of defenceformation (squad forexample) and use them to counterattacks? Dynamicaly? Without preplanning? I mean that "mastermind" could deside that this and this unit is needed elsewhere so it orders them to move there and do this and that. Now player with 60+ men might be impossible to stop, weaken yes, but then player changes his tactic. AI (In OFP) can't do that.