PC Discussion Thread - All PC related in here.

[-Snafu- 77]

I have a guest pass for Counter-Strike: Source (I know, I know) that I want to get rid of. PM me if you want it.

[Shadow NX 1]

And towards the realms of insanity i move more and more...

Received the G.Skill Rams, installed them, checked values and instead of 5-5-5-15 they were at 5-4-4-14 (think that was the value ).

Tried to start a game... reboot

Changed the settings to 5-5-5-15 via MemSet...

PC boots and freezes a few seconds after windows was loaded.

[echo1 0]

And towards the realms of insanity i move more and more...

Received the G.Skill Rams, installed them, checked values and instead of 5-5-5-15 they were at 5-4-4-14 (think that was the value ).

Tried to start a game... reboot

Changed the settings to 5-5-5-15 via MemSet...

PC boots and freezes a few seconds after windows was loaded.

Now we have to consider the possibility of a defective motherboard. Or even the PSU which you replaced on the assumption it might be faulty Don't worry, Ive had shit like this happen to me before, I know what its like

[max power 21]

I need do way instain raid 0 array...

I need to find some way to boot up my computer with a faulty raid 0 array to retrieve my email stuff, or otherwise recover it. Here's what happened: I've been getting some bsods with the code IRQL_NOT_EQUAL_TO or some crap for some time. I figured it was a bad dimm, so I did a bunch of memory tests. Those all came back negative, so I did some further research and found that it may be a soundcard or other driver conflict. This, I didn't care about, since openAL and my audigy 2 zs drivers have been fighting like cats and dogs since day 1.

Today, I had windows tell me about some some avast! antivirus temp file going corrupt, and it wanted me to run checkdisk. Checkdisk wouldn't run, which didn't surprise me. I figured something accessing the hard drive / needed some sectors on it / windows page file / whatever was not allowing it to run. After some fiddling about and general clean up, I attempted to reboot the computer to safe mode. Now, no matter what mode I try to reboot to (safe with networking, safe, normal, command prompt), it gives me a BSOD while loading the system files.

I don't care about the hard drives. If I could tie them to a chair and kick them down the stairs to bust them open to get them to release my email files, I would. I am considering purchasing some software to help rebuild a virtual raid array from those disks to capture an image of them... but does anyone else know of a way to attempt to simply repair the windows install for long enough for me to get some stuff off of these hard drives?

[echo1 0]

Plaintiff1:

I assume that the RAID is hardware based (ie. a RAID card or a RAID controller built into your motherboard). If so, I'd go onto another PC, download and burn a copy of the latest version of the Ubuntu Linux live CD. Then I'd boot up your machine with the live CD and use it to back up any data onto an external disk or flash drive. (If you have no experience with Ubuntu, it's quite intuitive, you should have no problems using it)

Link to Ubuntu download page.

[MehMan 0]

Awright, so I've been trashing this around:

Case: Antec P-182

PSU: LC7560 Taurus 560W

MB: Asus P5Q Pro

CPU: C2Q 6600

CPU cooling system: ASUS Silent Square Pro

RAM: Mushkin PC2-6400 "Enhanced" KIT 2048 MB - X2

GFX: HD4870

HDD: WD7500AACS "Green Power"

Now a few questions:

Is there a cheaper and yet equally good case available?

Is the PSU good?

CPU cooler...is that a good one?

RAM, mushkin is the best right? And I guess this is a good one

GFX card:

Well, here's a bit of thinking for you guys. first off, who's the better manufacturer, sapphire or gainward?

Second, what's a good nvidia alternative to the 4870? Generally nvidia cards look cheaper...

halp

[max power 21]

Plaintiff1:

I assume that the RAID is hardware based (ie. a RAID card or a RAID controller built into your motherboard). If so, I'd go onto another PC, download and burn a copy of the latest version of the Ubuntu Linux live CD. Then I'd boot up your machine with the live CD and use it to back up any data onto an external disk or flash drive. (If you have no experience with Ubuntu, it's quite intuitive, you should have no problems using it)

Link to Ubuntu download page.

Interesting and compelling post, ch_123. My raid array in indeed hardware. I like this solution, being cheap and straight forward. This sounds like what I was wishing for yesterday- an os that can load off of a cd.

[echo1 0]

Awright, so I've been trashing this around:

Case: Antec P-182

PSU: LC7560 Taurus 560W

MB: Asus P5Q Pro

CPU: C2Q 6600

CPU cooling system: ASUS Silent Square Pro

RAM: Mushkin PC2-6400 "Enhanced" KIT 2048 MB   -  X2

GFX: HD4870

HDD: WD7500AACS "Green Power"

Now a few questions:

Is there a cheaper and yet equally good case available?

Is the PSU good?

CPU cooler...is that a good one?

RAM, mushkin is the best right? And I guess this is a good one

GFX card:

Well, here's a bit of thinking for you guys. first off, who's the better manufacturer, sapphire or gainward?

Second, what's a good nvidia alternative to the 4870? Generally nvidia cards look cheaper...

halp

Case: Antec are generally considered a good choice. Im sure if you looked around you'd find an alternative. But if you came here and asked what case you should get, I'd probably recommend one of the P180 series cases.

PSU: Never heard of a "Taurus" PSU. Non brand PSUs are never worth the risk. Get a Corsair or Be Quiet unit.

CPU Cooler: Unless you are overclocking, or have a specific dislike of the stock cooler (ie. its too loud, etc) then I'd stick to the stock cooler and save money. You can always get one later if you really need it.

RAM: Yep. Mushkin is good. Other good names include OCZ and Corsair. I dont know what's the "best". A lot of hype around RAM performance is overclocking related. The average user just needs some decent RAM that wont crap out on them.

G-Cards:

Best manufacturer? Pick your poison really. See who has the best price and features. That said, I've always liked Gainward because of their designs, and the fact they tend to be pre-overclocked. As for the nVidia thing, the 4870 is the best all-round chip at the moment, and the 4850 is the best lower midrange chip. The closest nVidia equivalent is the GTX 260, which if memory serves me correct is slower and more expensive. But I think they are releasing an improved version soon enough.

[Shadow NX 1]

Awright, so I've been trashing this around:

Case: Antec P-182

PSU: LC7560 Taurus 560W

MB: Asus P5Q Pro

CPU: C2Q 6600

CPU cooling system: ASUS Silent Square Pro

RAM: Mushkin PC2-6400 "Enhanced" KIT 2048 MB   -  X2

GFX: HD4870

HDD: WD7500AACS "Green Power"

Now a few questions:

Is there a cheaper and yet equally good case available?

Is the PSU good?

CPU cooler...is that a good one?

RAM, mushkin is the best right? And I guess this is a good one

GFX card:

Well, here's a bit of thinking for you guys. first off, who's the better manufacturer, sapphire or gainward?

Second, what's a good nvidia alternative to the 4870? Generally nvidia cards look cheaper...

halp

The HD4870 is pretty awesome for its price, very happy with mine, only downside is that it gets hot as hell which will heat up your case within minutes so make sure to take a case with good ventilation.

Sapphire or Gainward, my current one is a Sapphire, had cards from both and never had any problems with them.

About CPU cooling, never tried the Silent Square but i use a Zalmann CNPS9500A LED and it shows excellent cooling values even on hotheads like my Phenom.

It fits on nearly all CPU mounts ( lots of adapters included ), was rather easy to install and already has the fanmate2 included so you can manually adjust to the cooling/noise mix you prefer.

On lowest setting it still cools well and is nearly unheareable.

http://www.zalman.co.kr/ENG/product/Product_Read.asp?idx=277

Rams, well many good ones out there, like ch_123 said.

Mushkin seems like a good choice to me, Corsair, G-Skill, OCZ and others also offer good value for money.

Rest looks good to me but maybe invest in a better PSU, i use the Be Quiet Dark Power Pro P7 550 Watts.

Cant hear it when it runs, cable management, stable performance and a pretty quality material look.

[CameronMcDonald 146]

Awright, so I've been trashing this around:

Case: Antec P-182

PSU: LC7560 Taurus 560W

MB: Asus P5Q Pro

CPU: C2Q 6600

CPU cooling system: ASUS Silent Square Pro

RAM: Mushkin PC2-6400 "Enhanced" KIT 2048 MB   -  X2

GFX: HD4870

HDD: WD7500AACS "Green Power"

Now a few questions:

Is there a cheaper and yet equally good case available?

Is the PSU good?

CPU cooler...is that a good one?

RAM, mushkin is the best right? And I guess this is a good one

GFX card:

Well, here's a bit of thinking for you guys. first off, who's the better manufacturer, sapphire or gainward?

Second, what's a good nvidia alternative to the 4870? Generally nvidia cards look cheaper...

halp

As far as CPU and cooler go, your system is almost identical to mine. I'm going to assume you're not an idiot and am going to overclock the 6600 to the gills?

In that case, the Silent Square Pro is a good choice; mine gets my E6600 to 3.6GHz stable at around 36 degrees.

EDIT - Just noted you're getting a quad core Q6600. Still a good overclocking choice; just not sure how far you'll get with it - I hear 3GHz is a good level.

[MehMan 0]

Har, I might buy the Mushkin PSU then. The reason why I'm buying it from this store only is because it's near, I can pick it up and I get a 15% discount for work at a nearby helpdesk.

[MehMan 0]

'nother question:

Gainward Radeon HD 4850 "Golden Sample"

1024 MB memory

GDDR 3

runs@ 2200 MHz

gcpu runs@ 700 MHz

Gainward Radeon HD 4870 "Golden Sample"

512 MB memory

GDDR 5

runs@ 4000 MHz

gcpu runs@ 775 MHz

Which one is the better choice here? Hrrr, while the 4870 is a faster one, the 4850 seems buffier. Speed or buff?

[echo1 0]

Har, I might buy the Mushkin PSU then. The reason why I'm buying it from this store only is because it's near, I can pick it up and I get a 15% discount for work at a nearby helpdesk.

Make sure you read a review of the unit before you buy it. If you can't find a review, treat it as if it had a bad review. As someone who had a bad quality PSU once (and as Im sure anyone else who ever had a bad PSU would agree), they are the one part of your PC that you just cant afford to go cheap on.

[MehMan 0]

Well my friend has the LC Power Taurus thingy and he says it's pretty good, but what the hell, he didn't buy a p-182, he bought just some shitty box and then wondered why his CPU was overheating on some long renders, bleh.

[Lepardi 0]

'nother question:

Gainward Radeon HD 4850 "Golden Sample"

1024 MB memory

GDDR 3

runs@ 2200 MHz

gcpu runs@ 700 MHz

Gainward Radeon HD 4870 "Golden Sample"

512 MB memory

GDDR 5

runs@ 4000 MHz

gcpu runs@ 775 MHz

Which one is the better choice here? Hrrr, while the 4870 is a faster one, the 4850 seems buffier. Speed or buff?

Get a basic version of the HD 4870 with 1GB mem, and OC it to "Golden Sample" level.

[MehMan 0]

No no, the HD4870 has 512MB, not 1gig. The HD4850 has 1gig. Now I'm a bit undecided, not sure which one will benefit me more...

[echo1 0]

Faster GPU > More VRAM. 'Nuff said. If of course you can get a 1GB 4870, all the better, but kinda superfluous unless you have a screen capable of 1680x1050 or more.

[MehMan 0]

I do have a screen capable of 1680x1050...

well, I can afterall buy the 512 version and then buy the 1024 version when it comes round these parts.

[echo1 0]

That would be a bit of a waste of money really - the difference between the 512MB and 1GB is negligible at best. If you can buy the 1GB out straight, that's ideal. But if you can only get the 512MB one, it will probably serve you just as well.

[MehMan 0]

Roger that, I'll go for the HD4870. It's a bit pricey, but best bang for my buck eh?

[MehMan 0]

A few more questions regarding, first off RAM, what does the voltage do? Also is 4-4-12 a good latency? I'm choosing between three different kinds of RAM, with a price difference of 1-2€, and the only difference on paper seemingly the voltage. All mushkin. Also, what is CL? Two have CL=4, while one has CL=5. Google says less is more, but what does this have to do with it all? Does anybody have an easy explanation for both how latency is calculated and how it works, and the same for CL? Also, I'm taking two sticks of 2gigs, I heard that sometimes it's better to get four sticks of 1gig, but dunno, I think it won't matter that much for me?

Also, regarding HDDs, how much difference can an extra 16MBs of cache make? I have two 750GB HDDs that I can pick, both seem rather equal, the price tag differs 20€, with the more expensive one having 32MB cache, the cheap one having 16MB cache.

The PSU, I'm a bit divided, the taurus or mushkin, 560W vs 580W. I'm a bit for mushkin, seeing how they already make RAM and are a reliable manufacturer and hopefully a silent one.

I've decided that I'll take the P-182 case, after reading on some of the cheap ones and how I like it if my machine doesn't sound like a jet engine. The construction seems to be made for defeating sound, so that's a huge plus.  What I do mind is that there are only two front USB slots. The front audio slots are nice, reduces clutter in the back.

The motherboard I'll keep the same, has more PCI-E slots, I need just two PCI slots and it has an extra PCI-E 16x slot, meaning a possible SLI/Crossfire upgrade if I ever scrounge up money and stuff. Leaves room basically.

The CPU is a given, it'll do me good at my kind of work, plus with the better cooling I'll be able to do some good overclocking and keep the whole thing cool and silent.

Sound is a rather big issue for me, as my current machine is a jet engine, I can hear it in the bathroom when I'm flushing the toilet, the bathroom is two rooms down and that's loud. Far too loud to have it running at night when I'm doing some major downloading. Luckly the machine isn't in the same room as I sleep, but if I leave it on at night I can still hear it. So if forking out more cash for the P-182 will drown the noise, I'm willing to spit it out.

[echo1 0]

A few more questions regarding, first off RAM, what does the voltage do? Also is 4-4-12 a good latency? I'm choosing between three different kinds of RAM, with a price difference of 1-2€, and the only difference on paper seemingly the voltage. All mushkin. Also, what is CL? Two have CL=4, while one has CL=5. Google says less is more, but what does this have to do with it all? Does anybody have an easy explanation for both how latency is calculated and how it works, and the same for CL?

That depends on whether youre in to overclocking or not. If you plan on overclocking, low latency RAM is needed to balance out the increase in latency when you increase the RAM's speed. As for voltage - to ensure stability as you overclock, you often need to increase the voltage. A RAM module capable of withstanding higher-than-specified voltages is therefore a must for serious overclocking. However, if you dont plan on overclocking, all of this is largely irrelevant, as you it will run at default voltage, and latencies don't have that big of an impact on system performance to justify spending more money on high performance modules.

Quote[/b] ]Also, I'm taking two sticks of 2gigs, I heard that sometimes it's better to get four sticks of 1gig, but dunno, I think it won't matter that much for me?

Im not sure that's correct. RAM works best in pairs, but I dont think spreading it over two pairs matters. The best thing to do is only use two slots, so that if you upgrade RAM capacity in the future, you don't have to get rid of your old RAM, you just have to add the new RAM into the empty spots.

Quote[/b] ]Also, regarding HDDs, how much difference can an extra 16MBs of cache make? I have two 750GB HDDs that I can pick, both seem rather equal, the price tag differs 20€, with the more expensive one having 32MB cache, the cheap one having 16MB cache.

Unless youre making a fileserver, hard drive cache is rather trivial. Out of curiosity, what drives are you looking at? I'd recommend the Samsung F1 myself.

Quote[/b] ]The PSU, I'm a bit divided, the taurus or mushkin, 560W vs 580W. I'm a bit for mushkin, seeing how they already make RAM and are a reliable manufacturer and hopefully a silent one.

I'd go for the Mushkin too. No-name PSUs shouldnt be trusted.

Quote[/b] ]The motherboard I'll keep the same, has more PCI-E slots, I need just two PCI slots and it has an extra PCI-E 16x slot, meaning a possible SLI/Crossfire upgrade if I ever scrounge up money and stuff. Leaves room basically.

I wouldnt bother with Crossfire/SLI if I were you, more trouble than its worth. Just look at the troubleshooting section for ArmA

And yes, a well designed case like an Antec should keep your noise levels down.

[BraTTy 0]

I heard that sometimes it's better to get four sticks of 1gig, but dunno, I think it won't matter that much for me?

ch123 did a great job of answering all your questions as always.He is very helpfull

The reason you may have heard that its better to buy 4 1gig sticks is because of safety reasons.If you got a bad stick you would still have 3 working rather than a larger one dead.Also applies for future.If one failed it would only be one gig.

Nowadays most memory has lifetime warranty and such a precaution is no longer needed.

Also the possiblility that 4 chips could possibly have more bandwidth,using the 4 banks rather than 2.

Thinking in other ways 2 larger chips could also be faster (shorter route,less path to travel)

One would not know without some serious testing

I would recommend the 2 larger chips because of upgrading and value.(1 gig chips have low value in my house ATM because I have so many ! lol)

My motherboard and bios is capable of 16gig.I made the mistake of buying 4 1gig chips thinking I would be all set with that.Now I want more but my slots are full.I should have only bought 2 2gig chips then I would have 2 slots still free.Now for me to upgrade I would be removing 2 gigs to gain the 4 gig.(of course my wife has 2 slots free but in the end for me to go to 8 gigs (4 2gig sticks) I have 2 1gig sticks not usable)

Or 4gig sticks would be nice...Id like 4 of them!

[SWAT_BigBear 0]

My motherboard and bios is capable of 16gig.I made the mistake of buying 4 1gig chips thinking I would be all set with that.Now I want more but my slots are full.I should have only bought 2 2gig chips then I would have 2 slots still free.Now for me to upgrade I would be removing 2 gigs to gain the 4 gig.(of course my wife has 2 slots free but in the end for me to go to 8 gigs (4 2gig sticks) I have 2 1gig sticks not usable)

Or 4gig sticks would be nice...Id like 4 of them!

lol, I have a similar issue....

When I built my pc in Feb 07', 2gig mem sticks were unstable & overpriced. With my board (4slots), 2 slots per CPU, it's a must to have 2 each, to use DDR2.

Several times I've came close to purchasing the new/improved 2gig sticks.

I've yet to see a real need. I've only seen half of it used at any point.

For now I'll stay with 4x1. (ArmA2 may convince me to upgrade)

[MehMan 0]

There we go, final setup I sent the list in today, paid for it, now waiting for the pickup sign. I'm not doing the build myself because the company offers it themselves, for free, along with stress testing.

It's all pretty much the same as before, I chose the Mushkin PSU due to the better amperage on the 12v rails, the cheaper one had shitty amps on the 12v rails. Also the Mushkin is modular with the cables, a huge plus.

I also took the Gainward HD4870 GS, the automatic overclock with the dual bios is nice, as it does yeild in a 5-10% preformance gain in some cases.