PC Discussion Thread - All PC related in here.

[Ironsight 1]

AMD Athlon™ 64 X2 processor 4600+ or Intel® Core Duo 2 processor E6300? What's better?

[dm 9]

AMD Athlon™ 64 X2 processor 4600+ or Intel® Core Duo 2 processor E6300? What's better?

The E6300, it'll overclock easier (even with stock cooling) and give better performance, as long as you combine it with some decent RAM and a decent (965/975) chipset on the motherboard.

[Ironsight 1]

AMD Athlon™ 64 X2 processor 4600+ or Intel® Core Duo 2 processor E6300? What's better?

The E6300, it'll overclock easier (even with stock cooling) and give better performance, as long as you combine it with some decent RAM and a decent (965/975) chipset on the motherboard.

I am not such a hardware connaisseur, so I am more curious about the results without overclocking. Still E6300?

[EiZei 0]

AMD Athlon™ 64 X2 processor 4600+ or Intel® Core Duo 2 processor E6300? What's better?

The E6300, it'll overclock easier (even with stock cooling) and give better performance, as long as you combine it with some decent RAM and a decent (965/975) chipset on the motherboard.

I am not such a hardware connaisseur, so I am more curious about the results without overclocking. Still E6300?

Let's put it that if you buy a core 2 proccessor with the price of X2 4600+ you are more likely to get the damn thing and end up with better performance.

[dm 9]

Yup, and I'd recommend the Core 2 Duo over the AMD chips any day.

Here you can see some testing done with the entire Core 2 Duo range, verses their AMD equivalents, and the non-overclocked E6300 matches the X2 4600+ in most applications. As soon as you overclock it, it shoots way off, out of the AMD's reach.

As it stands, for at least the next 6 months, you can not go wrong getting a Core 2 Duo.

[Ironsight 1]

Yup, and I'd recommend the Core 2 Duo over the AMD chips any day.

Here you can see some testing done with the entire Core 2 Duo range, verses their AMD equivalents, and the non-overclocked E6300 matches the X2 4600+ in most applications. As soon as you overclock it, it shoots way off, out of the AMD's reach.

As it stands, for at least the next 6 months, you can not go wrong getting a Core 2 Duo.

Thanks for that link DM. Looks like the E6300 will be a good deal for money

[-Snafu- 78]

Sorry for bothering you guys again with another graphics card question but which of these 3 graphics cards would be best for my system. What about system compatability with these cards?

Sapphire Technology Radeon x1600 PRO 512MB DDR2 AGP DVI TVO

XFX Geforce 7600GS 512MB DDR2 AGP8x DVI TVO

MSI Geforce 7600GS 512MB AGP8x DVI Passive Heatsink

forget it now.

[shinRaiden 0]

Yup, and I'd recommend the Core 2 Duo over the AMD chips any day.

Here you can see some testing done with the entire Core 2 Duo range, verses their AMD equivalents, and the non-overclocked E6300 matches the X2 4600+ in most applications. As soon as you overclock it, it shoots way off, out of the AMD's reach.

As it stands, for at least the next 6 months, you can not go wrong getting a Core 2 Duo.

Thanks for that link DM. Looks like the E6300 will be a good deal for money

What I have been unable to find so far though, is cross-comparisons in performance between T/E/X series C2D's, and comparisons between the mobile T series with the AMD A64 X2 desktop series.

[Heatseeker 0]

Yup, and there are so many of them that its easy to get lost..

http://www.intel.com/products/processor_number/chart/core2duo.htm

http://www.intel.com/products/processor_number/chart/core2xe.htm

Skipping the solos and some others...

T = lower range

E = mid range

X = high range

QX = ferrari racing on a mud track?

Most comparisons i've seen are using the E's. The E6600 seems to offer the best performance/cost relation, it will sell like crazy.

[Shashman 0]

Hi, I own a Toshiba Satellite A80 laptop, it's my first laptop and to be honest, I only bought it (this summer, second hand for €600) so that I could display my photography to customers after jobs, but I started using it for gaming and it works fine.

I play OFP on it @ 1024x760, high detail setting, 1000m vd, 2xAA and 2xAF.

I play GTA San Andreas on it and apart from a few FPS drops in high intensity action, that works fine.

I play CoD 2 @ 800x600 with most gfx settings on medium and that works fine too.

I WANT to play ArmA on it, but I don't know what sort of performance to expect, and should it be bad enough to ruin gameplay, I'd like to know if it's possible to upgrade laptops, other than RAM which I've already upgraded.

The system specs are as follows;

Intel Pentium M Dothan 730 (1.6GHz, 533MHz FSB)

1GB (512MBx2) DDR PC2700 ram at 166MHz

60 GB 4200 rpm hard drive

15" Toshiba TruBrite XGA TFT display

Nvidia Geforce GO 6200 64MB

[Heatseeker 0]

Hi, I own a Toshiba Satellite A80 laptop, it's my first laptop and to be honest, I only bought it (this summer, second hand for €600) so that I could display my photography to customers after jobs, but I started using it for gaming and it works fine.

I play OFP on it @ 1024x760, high detail setting, 1000m vd, 2xAA and 2xAF.

I play GTA San Andreas on it and apart from a few FPS drops in high intensity action, that works fine.

I play CoD 2 @ 800x600 with most gfx settings on medium and that works fine too.

I WANT to play ArmA on it, but I don't know what sort of performance to expect, and should it be bad enough to ruin gameplay, I'd like to know if it's possible to upgrade laptops, other than RAM which I've already upgraded.

The system specs are as follows;

Intel Pentium M Dothan 730 (1.6GHz, 533MHz FSB)

1GB (512MBx2) DDR PC2700 ram at 166MHz

60 GB 4200 rpm hard drive

15" Toshiba TruBrite XGA TFT display

Nvidia Geforce GO 6200 64MB

The hardware seems atleast compatible, even if the recomended minimum is 2.0 gig proc, its always hard to tell about laptops but i think it should work .

I thought PC2700 was 333mhz .

[Shashman 0]

Lol I don't know, I just copy and pasted the system specifications

[j w 0]

I thought PC2700 was 333mhz .

It is

[JdB 151]

Quote[/b] ]Nvidia Geforce GO 6200 64MB

The minimum for ArmA is a 128MB card...

Also I am assuming that card uses shared memory.

[Shashman 0]

No it's not shared, hmmm doesn't sound good then?

[berghoff 11]

Not really Nowadays 256 mb is standard.

[Shashman 0]

Awwww I hope ArmA works alright

It would brighten up my day (plus it's my birthday today lol) to hear that I can run it

[Colossus 2]

I'm not sure wether or not ArmA supports Nvidia Go cards.

Many games don't support graphics cards to labtops, like the Go serie.

So any Nvidia card which has GeForce 6200 Go 64 MB, or whatever, may not be supported.

[Shashman 0]

Well I haven't had any problems running recent-ish games like Doom 3, CoD 2, OFP ( ), GTA:SA, C&C Generals, The Sims 2, Trackmania Nations...

[DaSquade 0]

Once again i'm considering buying a new pc (well 95% upgrade). Some background info of what i have now:

Intel 3GHz HT

Kingston 1Gb (2x512mb) DDR400 HyperX Dual channel

SATA HD 120GB Maxtor

ATI 9800Pro 128mb

Abit IC7-G mobo

Audigy 2

(as most importent hardware i have). Afaik this won't be good enough to 'enjoy' OFP.

Since upgrading isn't really possible:

New CPU means new mobo,

new GFX means new mobo,

new ram means new mobo,

etc...

So i'm building a new system.

I'm not really following the latest techn. anymore but try to keep up (every time i do a hardware check it seams to have changed ).

Anyway, maybe before i give my hardware wish list of the new one, maybe some info for what i will use it:

I use my computer a lot (lets say, daily min. 8h maybe?).

I will be using it for modelling and texturing.

I will use it 'only' for ArmA, VBS and other titles of BI who maybe will come out between now and 1-2 years. Maybe some flight simulators...

For the rest i won't be using it for any other games, programs etc..(don't have time for that ).

Other info, i think i will (again) aim high so i hopefully will be able to use it for at least 2-3 years. I know, a lot of new hardware, software is comming out the next few months and next year..but since i won't be able to play ArmA 'good' and i need to upgrade, better do it good and not a temp upgrade (by the time you consider upgrading, the current hardware is outdated and not compatible anymore...in most cases).

Anyway, this is what i would like to buy:

-Intel Core2Duo E6700:

Maybe E6600, but i'm up for the extra buck. Like i said, not planning to upgrade for the next year or 2. Not sure if quatro (or whatever) will be worth upgrading...afaik only good for server use anyway (now a days).

-(XFX/eVGA) 8800GTX:

I know, new card and pretty expensive. But i'm planning on going for surround gaming (triple monitor) and guess this will be needed to feed them. I also know this is the first DX10 (don't really care about DX10..yet) and some new once are planned in the near future, but i can keep delaying it over and over...meanwhile i need something decent . Maybe i wait (again) untill ATI has it counter item and check their benchmarks first (pricedrop 8800 hopefully).

-Kingston 2x1Gb DDRII 800Mhz (maybe consider 4x1Gb if system really benefits it, i know 1->2Gb helps a lot, not sure about 2->4Gb). Afaik kingston doesn't have sticks of 2Gb (only Corsair)...

-1x74Gb Western Digital Raptor 16Mb 10.000RPM:

For Windows XP, was planning on the 32GB but apperently Vista will require 30 Gb..not that i really plan to go for Vista (soon).

-1x150Gb Western Digital Raptor 16Mb 10.000RPM:

For games and programs and maybe reference pictures and other needed small resources.

-My current Maxtor 120Gb Sata for data.

As backup, archieve (still have external HD as safe place).

-ThermalTake Shark case:

Currently have a ThermalTake (don't know model anymore), but was pretty happy about that one. Although fans aren't the best...but seams the Shark is pretty big inside (big enough for 8800?) and 'handy'.

As for Power supply, i guess a 500Watt should be enough. Not sure witch one yet, prefer a pretty sillent one with dual fan (in/out).

Mobo: Again no idea atm. I'm very happy about the Abit series. Don't really need Raid (used to have it), maybe it is usefull as 'safe' raid or it can help giving a boost, but not sure if it is really worth the extra (double HD) money. One thing is sure, mobo needs to support my processor, have at least 3 SATA (I) conectors, 1 (maybe 2 + SLI compatible chipset) PCI-E ports, have at least 4 RAM ports. Just read the 8800 needs two PCI-E ports (but i only see 1 on card, maybe not needed but 'space' as it is a big card?).

Will keep using my Audigy2 i guess, but will buy Logitech Z5500 speakerset (DIP 640 as those are bug free i hope).

As for the triple monitor:

Currently dual CRT user (19"), and after some forum checks really not sure what to do. Apperently CRTs are still the best, but can't fit three (one extra Philips) on my desk, plus CRT have so big bevers (? sides) i don't think it will be 'nice'.

Might go for NEC or Samsung and go for the 20" maybe 21".

Not sure if 'Wide' (16:10) are that good, depends a bit on model i guess if they allow scalling, but afaik ArmA is 16:10 compatible.

On thing is sure, i need image quality AND speed (response). Apprently hard to find item.

Offcourse i will need to buy the Matrox TriplleHead2Go box, sadly it doesn't make use of DVI (afaik quality of TFTs depends on input aswell)...

So one thing i'm sure off, I need to 'upgrade' if i want to enjoy ArmA. But still a lot of questions hopefully somebody can fill or help fill them in.

Sorry for an other 'hardware' suggestion post, but maybe it can be usefull for others (who are willing to 'burn' money on a high end system to enjoy BIs work..damn BI ).

[dm 9]

Ok, other than the fact I have a REALLY strong sense of dejavus about answering this (tho I'm positive I haven't ) lets go through the options:

Processor: Performance to Cost ratio, the E6600 is UNBEATABLE at the moment. You could spend the extra $$$ on the 6700 or even one of the "Extreme" cores like the X6800, but when you consider that the E6600 can be overclocked to over 3GHz and be stable with the STOCK intel cooler, when you factor in either a decent fan cooler or watercooling you could OC to 4 or even 5GHz, spending that extra money seems odd... (especially when it could go on a decent watercooling system which will make your PC MUCH quieter, and pleasing on the ears)

Graphics: Personally, I would wait until the 2nd gen of DX10 cards, 1st gen tech always has its little niggles, and with nVidia being the only one with a DX10 card out the market is ballenced very a-symmetrically (i.e. nVidias prices are artifically high)

At the moment you would probably be better off getting 2x 7900's and running them in SLI. There wont be many DX10 games for a year or two anyway.

RAM: More and faster is always better. if you consider that the ArmA install is ~4Gb, a large quantity of that is going to have to pass through the RAM at some point. If you can get 2x 2Gb sticks then thats all the better (I dream of 4x 2Gb sticks in 2 pairs )

Hard drives are sensible, though I would keep your current PC as is (dont steal the HDD out of it). Since you never know when it might come in useful to have a server or 2nd PC for testing/backup purposes

Case: I dont really care about, as long as its nice and big and has decent ventiallation its all good in my book.

Power supply: Either 2x 7900's or one 8800 are going to draw a lot of power under load, also consider that a powersupply which is rated close to the overall demand of the system is going to have to be working hard all the time, this means its going to get hotter and need a faster (thus louder) fan to cool it. If you get a bigger PSU then it will only need to work at a reduced rate. I'm sure you can work out the rest

Mobo: if you dont want SLI then I'd reccomend the ASUS P5W DH Deluxe, if you DO want SLI, then either the Asus Striker Exteme NF680i SLI or the P5N32-SLI or P5N32-E SLI boards.

Sound: While the Audigy 2 is good (I have one) the new X-Fi cards can really handle a lot more sound a lot better. IIRC the Audigy 2 can handle 32 "voices" the 4 "64" and the new X-Fi cards do 128. Thats 128 different sounds capable of being played all at once, makes gaming a VERY different experience. (Ofcourse, only really worth it if you've got decent speakers, which you appear to have)

Monitors: LCD TFT's have caught up with CRT's, and if you're willing to spend a little bit more you can get a TFT with performance which matches or beats a comparable CRT.

Anyho, thats my $0.02

[shadow 6]

Sound: While the Audigy 2 is good (I have one) the new X-Fi cards can really handle a lot more sound a lot better. IIRC the Audigy 2 can handle 32 "voices" the 4 "64" and the new X-Fi cards do 128. Thats 128 different sounds capable of being played all at once, makes gaming a VERY different experience. (Ofcourse, only really worth it if you've got decent speakers, which you appear to have)

I went from a Audigy1 to a X-FI fatality.

Its not so much the amount of channels you notice, but the improved overal audio-quality (if you have decent enough speakers).

The X-FI's SNr (Signal to noise ratio) is 116db while the Audigy-series are around 95db. That is a major improvement.

I'd say the X-FI cards are real nice as long as you dont plan on playing Far Cry (serious incompatibility/audio-artifacts). For everything else its the best card I've had so far (not counting pro cards aimed at composers).

[DaSquade 0]

Thanks for your $0.02 DM (adds it to the virtual wallet).

Sadly this is the news i already had in my mind aswell...well most of them.

E6600 is indeed best cost/performence chip atm. It isn't really worth the extra money i guess. I always feared OC (fried a pair of Kingstons HyperX's due to noobness, but luckly the shop replaced them without any questions and no money was asked). But it might be worth the risk (this time with good guidelines to OC it....).

Graphics: Also true and like i feared. I'll probebly wait it out again and see what next few months bring. But again i don't realy buy it for the DX10 label. Like i said, won't go to Vista anytime soon and untill BI(S/A) or any of my favorite developers makes a DX10 compatible game, i just buy the 8800 for its great current performences (and triple monitor in mind).

One thing is sure i won't be able to enjoy ArmA due to the graphic part since my card is just too weak (was glad i made it true OFP and VBS without upgrade). Guess i will be forced a bit to run it all on low for the next few months untill my 'big' upgrade.

RAM: True i guess (never enough). Will check if there are any good 2Gb sticks around at decent prices. But are you really sure 8Gb can benefit? Ok if for rendering, but for games? Just asking, i mean...it might help the game launch loading, not sure if it will still have big inpacked on ingame/mission loading compaired to 4GB. Just wondering, i'm up for it if it really benefits (although it isn't that cheap 4->8Gb).

Soundcard: ah nice to know. Frankly i didn't know as i never check what 'new/extra' the newer cards had. Maybe worth the upgrade.

TFT/LCD: Well, more or less still my biggest concern to be honest. Afaik the latest NEC and Samsung models will have new type of display witch will have bought quality and response. Guess i will find my needed info on WSGF forum one of these days. Guess again it might be best to hold that part untill i have made my dessicion on the PC and have done some tests.

Anyway, thanks again for your $0.02.

[j w 0]

RAM: True i guess (never enough). Will check if there are any good 2Gb sticks around at decent prices. But are you really sure 8Gb can benefit? Ok if for rendering, but for games? Just asking, i mean...it might help the game launch loading, not sure if it will still have big inpacked on ingame/mission loading compaired to 4GB. Just wondering, i'm up for it if it really benefits (although it isn't that cheap 4->8Gb).

Yes, but you'll need other hardware that matches it.

[dm 9]

Thats one of the good things about the Conroes, they're ridiculously easy to overclock. There are plenty of guides out there on how to do it, places like tomshardware).com) or hexus(.net) would be recommended to read from.

Graphics - yeah, the 9900 offers some blistering speed, and the unified architecture really benefits that. If you're willing to make the outlay, then I'm sure it would be "money well spent". I probably wouldnt look to it being overly "future proof" since the tech is moving on so fast at the moment.

RAM: More is always better. Faster load times, smaller virtual disk needed, ok it may not OVERLY effect FPS once ingame, and that 1-5 FPS gain may not be worth the outlay for 8Gb. I would say that at LEAST 2Gb is the new "standard" with 4 rapidly becoming the preference.

TFT/LCD: I've been gaming on a pair of LCD's for the best part of two years now, and really I see no difference between that and my old CRT. Ok both are not top of the line models, the CRT was a Iiyama 17" 'thing' - 1152 x 864 @ 75Hz, the LCD's are Hyundai ImageQuest L72D 17" 1280 x 1024 @ 75Hz with an 8ms response time. The colours are crisp, there is no ghosting and the image is sharp. And they were ~Å100 each 2 years ago. The newest stuff is of MUCH better quality, I've heard nothing but good things about the Dell (I know) 2407WFP monitor and thats from self-confessed tech-junkies (they are both amateur photographers, and look for image quality as well as gaming ability).