PC Discussion Thread - All PC related in here.

[echo1 0]

I checked up on your model of PC and it look's like it should be able to take a graphics card and a third party PSU. For the PSU, I'd recommend a Corsair 450W unit. As for the graphics card, I'd recommend a GeForce 9600GT. While there are way more faster graphics cards available, the Pentium D you have would be a bottleneck for them, and your PC wouldn't be able to take advantage of them. The 9600GT is still quite a capable card, and is nearly as fast as the GeForce 8800GT that is listed as the "recommended requirement" for ArmA2.

EDIT: I'd also recommend a RAM upgrade, as the stuff is really cheap these days. I'd get a 2GB set (make sure you buy one that is comprised of two 1GB sticks) so that you have 3GB in total. Also, if you plan to upgrade your motherboard or CPU in the future, I'd go for the 550W Corsair PSU instead of the 450W one.

Edited April 30, 2009 by echo1

[Supernova 0]

@Sickboy,

A. There is no C2Q model that is stock clocked at 3.3ghz unless you are referring to the E8600 which is a C2D.

B. You have power saving options enabled which most overclockers turn off and you also have Turbo Mode enabled.

C. It's been widely known that i7 systems generally perform better with AMD video cards such as the HD 4890's.

D. You aren't fully stable until you run Prime 95 and SuperPI and OCCT for a while and there are no errors.

E. I did not notice any difference between my i7 920 (D0) @ 4.0ghz and my cross-platform comparison Phenom II X4 955 BE @ 4.0ghz. I'd say both the 920 and the 955 are great bangs for bucks but it all depends on the tasks and requirements of the user. The core i7 is mainly directed towards those who rely heavily on multi-threaded applications and media creation tasks.

Edited April 30, 2009 by Supernova

[echo1 0]

@Sickboy,

A. There is no C2Q model that is stock clocked at 3.3ghz unless you are referring to the E8600 which is a C2D..

There's the QX9750. Or he's just reporting the speed at which he overclocked his Core 2 Quad. Either way I'm sure he knows how fast his own computer is

E. I did not notice any difference between my i7 920 (D0) @ 4.0ghz and my cross-platform comparison Phenom II X4 955 BE @ 4.0ghz. I'd say both the 920 and the 955 are great bangs for bucks but it all depends on the tasks and requirements of the user. The core i7 is mainly directed towards those who rely heavily on multi-threaded applications and media creation tasks.

Every benchmark I've ever seen shows the Core i7 beating the Phenom, even if they are both overclocked. That said, the Phenom is much better value for money compared with the i7.

[sesdelta38 10]

I checked up on your model of PC and it look's like it should be able to take a graphics card and a third party PSU. For the PSU, I'd recommend a Corsair 450W unit. As for the graphics card, I'd recommend a GeForce 9600GT. While there are way more faster graphics cards available, the Pentium D you have would be a bottleneck for them, and your PC wouldn't be able to take advantage of them. The 9600GT is still quite a capable card, and is nearly as fast as the GeForce 8800GT that is listed as the "recommended requirement" for ArmA2.

EDIT: I'd also recommend a RAM upgrade, as the stuff is really cheap these days. I'd get a 2GB set (make sure you buy one that is comprised of two 1GB sticks) so that you have 3GB in total. Also, if you plan to upgrade your motherboard or CPU in the future, I'd go for the 550W Corsair PSU instead of the 450W one.

Thanks for your help ch 123 and thanks for giving a cheaper solution. This is cheaper, because I don't have to get a $1,000 PC in order to play this game.

EDIT: Is there a specific set of GB sticks that I need to get? Also, will ArmA 2 run with these new upgrades with the 62-bit Windows Vista? I ask this because Windows Vista isn't listed as a minimum requirement. Does it matter whether or not the minimum specs say Windows XP?

Edited May 2, 2009 by sesdelta38

[Pyronick 21]

Every benchmark I've ever seen shows the Core i7 beating the Phenom, even if they are both overclocked. That said, the Phenom is much better value for money compared with the i7.

Most games these days are at least 80% GPU dependant.

That's the reason why the Core i7 doesn't jump leaps ahead in framerate, even though it kicks the Phenom II in almost every situation possible by miles.

It will change though, when the CPU gets more floating point grunt, vector extensions and GPU-like instructions like MUL, MADD, FMA.

ArmA 2 has very complex terrain and AI, and think it will be more GPU dependant relative to ArmA. But it will always be a CPU stresser, even with proper multithreading support.

And graphics hardware doesn't have to be that expensive, a simple HD 4770 which retails for about € 90 (here in Holland) runs most games better than the more expensive HD 4850 and 9800 GT.

Even Crysis is no big deal.

Edited May 1, 2009 by SgtH3nry3

[RUDOLF 9]

For ARMA, I once bought a Sony laptop in fortune ( Intel 2-core CPU, 3G Ram, Navidia 8600MT GPU ). But with Vista system, almost can't play ARMA at all so have to contiune play OFP. Lol, very fast for OFP.

Now just bought yesterday a new customized table P.C. for ARMAII. Just tested it, very very fast for ARMA games with high resolutions with lots of troops put on.

The configurations are:

Intel 4-Core Q8200 CPU

Kingston 4G (1066) RAM

XFXForce 260GX(896M) VAG

500G HD

500W Power

XP Operating System

Now by its great performance for ARMA, quite confident that would also be good for ARMAII.

[jarp 0]

Just bought me a new PC as well for the games coming this year and so far I do not regret it. Ok except for the ArmA black-screen-thingy even with the newest patch.

AMD Phenom II 940 BE

Corsair 4GB RAM

MSI ATI Radeon HD4870 1GB

WinVista 64 Ultimate

I am sure that this set-up will ace ArmA II :)

Also if the graphics card is outdated near the end of the year I bought me a powerful PSU so that I just have to replace my graphics-card. Bring it on '09-games! :)

Edited May 3, 2009 by jarp

[echo1 0]

What sort of ATI card is it? HD4870?

[Anariaq 10]

I got a question. Well I read most post but I "manage" to "build" my own system. But it have been over 2 years since I last "build" my computer and havent really followed the devilopment of new hardware. So I just want to get advice about my selection of hardware. If they are totally stupid or if they are valid choice.

Motherboard: AsRock P43Twins1600

graficcard: Sparkle Geforce GTX 285 1 gig DDR3

CPU: Core 2 Quad 3.0ghz Q9650 12mb

RAM: Corsair 2X2gig DDR3 1333mhz

Harddrive: WD caviar Blue WD500AAKS 500gig

and a 900watt PSU

Anariaq

[echo1 0]

Hey -

1) I'd be more inclined these days to recommend the Phenom II over the Core 2 Quad, mainly due to better overclocking and bang-for-buck (even if you are not overclocking). Check out the X4 955 or X4 940. AMD has two types of motherboards - AM2+ which uses cheaper DDR2, or AM3 which uses DDR3. You can use these chips with AM2+ motherboards, but not all motherboards seem to support the newer chips, even with the latest BIOS updates. You'd be better off shelling out a bit extra for DDR3 RAM and get one of these.

2) PSU is too big relative to what you need it for. A good 500-600W would be a better choice. Check out the Corsair HX620.

Some would say that the Radeon HD4890 is a better choice for the card. However, considering the continuing problems that people are having with newer Radeons and ArmA, the GTX285 may be a more safe bet, even if it isn't as good value for money.

Edited May 4, 2009 by echo1

[Anariaq 10]

Hey -

1) I'd be more inclined these days to recommend the Phenom II over the Core 2 Quad, mainly due to better overclocking and bang-for-buck (even if you are not overclocking). Check out the X4 955 or X4 940. AMD has two types of motherboards - AM2+ which uses cheaper DDR2, or AM3 which uses DDR3. You can use these chips with AM2+ motherboards, but not all motherboards seem to support the newer chips, even with the latest BIOS updates. You'd be better off shelling out a bit extra for DDR3 RAM and get one of these.

2) PSU is too big relative to what you need it for. A good 500-600W would be a better choice. Check out the Corsair HX620.

Some would say that the Radeon HD4890 is a better choice for the card. However, considering the continuing problems that people are having with newer Radeons and ArmA, the GTX285 may be a more safe bet, even if it isn't as good value for money.

Hey thanks for the answer. And got another question. Is the motherboard I selected bad? because right now when I use that one its actually cheaper than using the Phenom II with the cheapest motherboard that support Phenom II. btw I used this one to find out CPU http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3492&p=16

oh btw I shouldn't have written the Graphic card :/ was only going for Nvidia because of Linux. Sorry about that.

[echo1 0]

Yeah, Asrock motherboards aren't very high quality, and the P43 chipset isn't very good. The one I linked you is a high-end AM3 motherboard. There is a cheaper model called the UD4P, that's about €30 cheaper, but I'm not sure how well it stacks up against the UP5P which has got excellent reviews. You might want to check it out yourself.

The chart you linked doesnt have the X4 955 - from just about every benchmark I've seen, it's performance is in and around that of the Q9650 despite being €100 cheaper. And good call on the nVidia card - I've been told that ATI's linux drivers still suck.

[von_paulus 0]

I need a little advice from the experts. ;)

Here's my rig:

Asus P5B Deluxe

CPU E6420 @ 2.13Mhz

2x Kingston DDR2 Hyper X 2GB 800MHz CL5

Asus 8800 512 GTS

PSU LC-POWER HYPERION V.2.2 700W

HD Western Digital 500GB SATA II(16 Mb)

Windows XP Pro

In order to run ARMA II at Medium settings, I think what I really need to upgrade is the CPU. I'm considering Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 3.1Mhz or Intel Core2 Quad Q9400 2.66Mhz (that's my budget limit). I don't play much other games. The only game that I really want to play is ARMA II and that is the main reason for the cpu upgrade.

Should I care more for clock speed or for the multicore? Like you've noticed I don't have DDR3 and the chipset of the motherboard is Intel P965. So I'm expecting some latency.

What would be your advice? I've a time frame to do the upgrade. So unfortunately I'll probably have to do it before the release.

And another thing I' don't want to overclock the CPU (the old and the new).

Thanks in advance.

[Leopardi 0]

Hey -

Some would say that the Radeon HD4890 is a better choice for the card. However, considering the continuing problems that people are having with newer Radeons and ArmA, the GTX285 may be a more safe bet, even if it isn't as good value for money.

Hmm? It's the other way round man. Radeons have no problems while nvidia cards struggle like mad with ArmA. So definitely the radeon is the safer choice here.

[echo1 0]

I need a little advice from the experts. ;)

Here's my rig:

Asus P5B Deluxe

CPU E6420 @ 2.13Mhz

2x Kingston DDR2 Hyper X 2GB 800MHz CL5

Asus 8800 512 GTS

PSU LC-POWER HYPERION V.2.2 700W

HD Western Digital 500GB SATA II(16 Mb)

Windows XP Pro

In order to run ARMA II at Medium settings, I think what I really need to upgrade is the CPU. I'm considering Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 3.1Mhz or Intel Core2 Quad Q9400 2.66Mhz (that's my budget limit). I don't play much other games. The only game that I really want to play is ARMA II and that is the main reason for the cpu upgrade.

Should I care more for clock speed or for the multicore? Like you've noticed I don't have DDR3 and the chipset of the motherboard is Intel P965. So I'm expecting some latency.

What would be your advice? I've a time frame to do the upgrade. So unfortunately I'll probably have to do it before the release.

And another thing I' don't want to overclock the CPU (the old and the new).

Thanks in advance.

You know, I doubt either the E8500 or Q9400 would make your system that much faster. I'd say the chip you have would run ArmA 2 fine. If it doesn't, I'd say a more substantial upgrade is called for,

@Leopardi: No idea where you got that one. Try reading the ArmA troubleshooting section,

Edited May 4, 2009 by echo1

[MehMan 0]

ugh, man this rig is way too noisy for my taste. even with the P182 case it's noisy! I'm thinking it's the HD4870 GS(damn you gainward and your first series of nosiy smaller fans!). I've removed the old HDD I was planning to use for backups because I think it was causing the noise. While it wasn't used at all, I think it still spins even at idle. So now that's gone and it's actually quieter a bit. BBBBUUUUUUTTT, the HD4870 is still a beyatch. I think I made a mistake by going for the GS :P. I've tried improving the airflow a bit by moving one huge cable(main power supply for MB) behind, but the rest of the cables are too short or have too many attachments! The SATA power cable, it has three plugs for HDDS! There has to be a modular cable with just one plug! Same with my PATA cable.

Also, there's one 8 pin cable that I want to put behind the MB aswell but it's a bit too short, it plugs in, in the upper left corner of the MB. I'm using a P5Q pro. What does this cable do? Another power supply?

[echo1 0]

I also have a Gainward GS card (albeit a 9600GT). The card was designed that it would run at 100% speed until the drivers were loaded up. It would also flare up alot during games. I ended up replacing it with a third party Zalman fan which is something I recommend. There's also the Akasa Neo which is a bit cheaper and probably just as good as the Zalman units.

As for the 8pin connector, I think you're talking about the power connector for the CPU. Most motherboards are designed so that it will accept either a 4pin or 8pin connector. The computer can't turn on without one of them connected to it.

[Supernova 0]

There's the QX9750. Or he's just reporting the speed at which he overclocked his Core 2 Quad. Either way I'm sure he knows how fast his own computer is

Every benchmark I've ever seen shows the Core i7 beating the Phenom, even if they are both overclocked. That said, the Phenom is much better value for money compared with the i7.

Incorrect the QX9750 is an ES and it is not clocked at 3.33ghz the only differences being it is clocked less than a QX9770 and having E0 stepping.

http://valid.canardpc.com/cache/screenshot/502476.png

@MehMan: Most high-end systems generate some noise. If you don't want noise go for passive cooling or make a HTPC. Otherwise you have to live with it.

[echo1 0]

@MehMan: Most high-end systems generate some noise. If you don't want noise go for passive cooling or make a HTPC. Otherwise you have to live with it.

Why should you have to live with a noisy computer? Obviously there will be some noise with a fast PC, but excessive noise is generally down to badly designed components. Some simple (and reasonably inexpensive) modifications and part replacements can go a long way to fixing things.

@The Q9750 thing: I misread your post as "3.2" instead of "3.3". My bad.

Edited May 4, 2009 by echo1

[MehMan 0]

I'll be doing a bit of troubleshooting tommorow, finding the noiseyest components and replacing them if I see fit. The fans will probably go. I'm using an arctic silver cooler for my CPU, how could I replace the intergrated fan?

Also, what fans to get?

[echo1 0]

Depends. Case fans can be quite easily replaced quite easily as the sizes are standardized. As for CPU and graphics card fans, it's not quite as easy as the fans are specific the the coolers, and you generally have to replace the whole cooler (heatsink+fan) itself. If you figure out which fans are causing the problems, post up here and I'll give some recommendations for replacements.

Btw - Arctic Silver is a thermal paste not a cooler. :)

[CameronMcDonald 146]

Noctua fans are good, especially their NF-S12-1200 series.

[MehMan 0]

Depends. Case fans can be quite easily replaced quite easily as the sizes are standardized. As for CPU and graphics card fans, it's not quite as easy as the fans are specific the the coolers, and you generally have to replace the whole cooler (heatsink+fan) itself. If you figure out which fans are causing the problems, post up here and I'll give some recommendations for replacements.

Btw - Arctic Silver is a thermal paste not a cooler. :)

Shit, meant Arctic Square. The second word starts with S and I stop thinking after that.

I have 120mm case fans and 92 mm CPU fan. The HD4870, no clue, a bit trickier.

[echo1 0]

Yeah, generally you cant replace the fans in graphics cards, the whole cooling assembly has to come off and be replaced. The Akasa Neo Vortexx or any of the Zalman VGA coolers are good choices. The installation is simple enough, and they tend to keep the card cooler than the standard heatsink as well.

[MehMan 0]

considering I have dual fans I wouldn't want to stray too much off that. That's the tricky bit. I've even been toying with watercooling because then I could OC this C2Q to something good! I've seen some very nice custom made(yet affordable!) copper radiators that are way thinner than the stock fan cooling! But then again, I'd have to throw tons of money into that, that I just don't have.