PC Discussion Thread - All PC related in here.

[Murtok 0]

Do you mean to say that you want to get another 8800GTS 640MB for SLI? I wouldnt bother, the money you spend on an SLI setup would be much better spent on a faster single card like a Radeon 4870 (which I would say is your best choice for an upgrade). CPU-wise, going from an overclocked dual core to an overclock single core will have very no effect on ArmA, as ArmA doesnt properly use mutli-core CPUs. Supposedly ArmA2 will, but to what extent remains to be seen. How much RAM have you got?

Yes, I do mean to get another GPU and run it in SLI along with the one I already have.

It may be worth mentioning that I run all of my games at 1980x1200 on a 24" monitor. In my mind, a higher resolution should require a larger memory buffer, right? Since the only 4870s I can find have 512MB of RAM, would that not render slower frames compared to the combined RAM of 1280MB from two 8800GTSs?

Perhaps I am misinformed on this issue.

I have 2 Gigs of system RAM.

[Bush 0]

Yes, I do mean to get another GPU and run it in SLI along with the one I already have.

It may be worth mentioning that I run all of my games at 1980x1200 on a 24" monitor. In my mind, a higher resolution should require a larger memory buffer, right? Since the only 4870s I can find have 512MB of RAM, would that not render slower frames compared to the combined RAM of 1280MB from two 8800GTSs?

Perhaps I am misinformed on this issue.

I have 2 Gigs of system RAM.

You dont get more ram when running SLI, same buffer on both cards.

[echo1 0]

Do you mean to say that you want to get another 8800GTS 640MB for SLI? I wouldnt bother, the money you spend on an SLI setup would be much better spent on a faster single card like a Radeon 4870 (which I would say is your best choice for an upgrade). CPU-wise, going from an overclocked dual core to an overclock single core will have very no effect on ArmA, as ArmA doesnt properly use mutli-core CPUs. Supposedly ArmA2 will, but to what extent remains to be seen. How much RAM have you got?

Yes, I do mean to get another GPU and run it in SLI along with the one I already have.

It may be worth mentioning that I run all of my games at 1980x1200 on a 24" monitor. In my mind, a higher resolution should require a larger memory buffer, right? Since the only 4870s I can find have 512MB of RAM, would that not render slower frames compared to the combined RAM of 1280MB from two 8800GTSs?

Perhaps I am misinformed on this issue.

I have 2 Gigs of system RAM.

If you want something with a good chunk of memory, the GTX260 isnt that more expensive than a 4870 now that nVidia has dropped the price. As Bush said, two graphics cards doesnt equal twice the video RAM, as they do not share memory, just the workload.

[Lepardi 0]

Do you mean to say that you want to get another 8800GTS 640MB for SLI? I wouldnt bother, the money you spend on an SLI setup would be much better spent on a faster single card like a Radeon 4870 (which I would say is your best choice for an upgrade). CPU-wise, going from an overclocked dual core to an overclock single core will have very no effect on ArmA, as ArmA doesnt properly use mutli-core CPUs. Supposedly ArmA2 will, but to what extent remains to be seen. How much RAM have you got?

Yes, I do mean to get another GPU and run it in SLI along with the one I already have.

It may be worth mentioning that I run all of my games at 1980x1200 on a 24" monitor. In my mind, a higher resolution should require a larger memory buffer, right? Since the only 4870s I can find have 512MB of RAM, would that not render slower frames compared to the combined RAM of 1280MB from two 8800GTSs?

Perhaps I am misinformed on this issue.

I have 2 Gigs of system RAM.

If you want something with a good chunk of memory, the GTX260 isnt that more expensive than a 4870 now that nVidia has dropped the price. As Bush said, two graphics cards doesnt equal twice the video RAM, as they do not share memory, just the workload.

Why GTX 260, when you can get HD 4870 1GB model?

[Murtok 0]

Why GTX 260, when you can get HD 4870 1GB model?

Nice, I didn't spot that. I guess that's what I get for confining my searches to New Egg. Thanks for the heads up.

[froggyluv 2135]

Just a heads up- anyone considering buying a Wolfdale E8400/8500/8600, might want to wait a week or 2, as Intel is changing ALL of their cores to match the soon to be released 8600. Meaning, they are switching their stepping from C0 to E0 which will add many of benefits such as improved oc'ability, less power consuption and much more.

Check it out here

[narc 0]

Why GTX 260, when you can get HD 4870 1GB model?

Nice, I didn't spot that. I guess that's what I get for confining my searches to New Egg. Thanks for the heads up.

In this test  2 x 8800GT were faster than a single GTX 260 in most games and 2 x 8800GTX was neck and neck with GTX280 (1024), 2 x 8800GTX were consistantly faster than 9800GX2 by 10FPS. I'd say a 2nd hand 8800GTX for around 70 quid would be a solid investment if you already have a 8800GTX and a decent power supply, what do you think?

[Murtok 0]

In this test  2 x 8800GT were faster than a single GTX 260 in most games and 2 x 8800GTX was neck and neck with GTX280 (1024), 2 x 8800GTX were consistantly faster than 9800GX2 by 10FPS. I'd say a 2nd hand 8800GTX for around 70 quid would be a solid investment if you already have a 8800GTX and a decent power supply, what do you think?

Well, a few days ago when I was in the mind-set of only spending about 180 USD I guess that little tip would sound pretty good... but now - erm, I think I'm falling in love with this. Pardoning it dosen't cost an arm and a leg, I will be owning one of these.  

Speaking of the 1 gig 4870, has anybody spotted one for sale yet?

[echo1 0]

Why GTX 260, when you can get HD 4870 1GB model?

Nice, I didn't spot that. I guess that's what I get for confining my searches to New Egg. Thanks for the heads up.

In this test  2 x 8800GT were faster than a single GTX 260 in most games and 2 x 8800GTX was neck and neck with GTX280 (1024), 2 x 8800GTX were consistantly faster than 9800GX2 by 10FPS. I'd say a 2nd hand 8800GTX for around 70 quid would be a solid investment if you already have a 8800GTX and a decent power supply, what do you think?

That's great if your games decide to work with SLI, but alot of them don't. (Just look at the troubleshooting section on the ArmA board). I'd much rather get a single card for the sake of reliability, even if it is a bit slower. Then of course, there's the advantages of less noise, energy consumption etc.

[Commando84 0]

whats the best setup to run Arma1 in high settings?

[Lepardi 0]

whats the best setup to run Arma1 in high settings?

10 000km VD, everything on Very high at 1680x1050, fps around 100 all the times:

Haven't seen anyone else having ArmA running smoother.

[narc 0]

Why GTX 260, when you can get HD 4870 1GB model?

Nice, I didn't spot that. I guess that's what I get for confining my searches to New Egg. Thanks for the heads up.

In this test  2 x 8800GT were faster than a single GTX 260 in most games and 2 x 8800GTX was neck and neck with GTX280 (1024), 2 x 8800GTX were consistantly faster than 9800GX2 by 10FPS. I'd say a 2nd hand 8800GTX for around 70 quid would be a solid investment if you already have a 8800GTX and a decent power supply, what do you think?

That's great if your games decide to work with SLI, but alot of them don't. (Just look at the troubleshooting section on the ArmA board). I'd much rather get a single card for the sake of reliability, even if it is a bit slower. Then of course, there's the advantages of less noise, energy consumption etc.

Thanks for the heads up, I didn't realise there were so many issues relating to SLi and ArmA.. I guess I won't be getting another 8800GTX then, the heat and power consuption were starting to put me off anyway, 2 8800GTX's draw 30 Amps on load!

EDIT: Just read the specs for the 280, it requires 40A!

[echo1 0]

No problems, and its not just ArmA that has problems, there are a very large number of games that have unreliable results with SLI, I always advise people to steer clear of it.

[froggyluv 2135]

whats the best setup to run Arma1 in high settings?

10 000km VD, everything on Very high at 1680x1050, fps around 100 all the times:

Haven't seen anyone else having ArmA running smoother.

I'm really curious about this 8800 Ultra XXX used to reach these Arma benchmarks. Isn't this a pretty old card? I see it's priced between $600-800 US!?! Higher than their flagship GTX 280 $400-600.

i would never pay that kind of money for a VC but I'm trying to figure out Arma's sweet spot...

...if she has one

[echo1 0]

Price is possibly to do with rarity. It would probably come down soon. However, I cant imagine that an overclocked 8800 Ultra could take on a GTX280...

[kmossco 9]

Well well, I figured I should posted here as I never was much into desktops but now the opportunity is here to buy one and maybe you can help me out.

I am trying to buy a desktop under the 1000€ mark (portuguese values) to be able at least to play ArmA I and II in good resolution and smoothly. I found 2 I liked so far.

1500€ without screen

- Intel QuadCore Q9450

- Nvidia GeForce 9800 GX2 1GB DDR3 PCI-X

- 4GB RAM DDR2 800MHz

- Disco de 1TB SATAII (7200 rpm)

- DVD+R Dual Layer 8.5Gb recorder

- 600W UPS

- Acase El Diablo Black midtower

860€ with screen

- AMD Phenom QuadCore 9850 2.5GHZ skt AM2+

- Motherboard Asus M3A78-EMH HDMI

- RAM Kingston Hyper X 2GB 1066MHz CL5

- (2x) 320GB SATA2 16MB 7200rpm

- LG TFT 22" W2252S-PF 5ms 10:000 black monitor

- graphics card is one between some options I am yet to know

- Nox Extreme Coolbay Window midtower

Both come with Windows Vista and same software bundle, the first one brings a printer for free. I am more turned towards the second as it is cheaper and brings a screen that here is worth 250€ and the motherboard reaches the 150€. I can increase RAM to 4GB if needed for 75€.

Considering the second's graphics card I believe the options are between 512 and 768 GPUs which are what I want. Preferably 768 though if there is no change in the price.

So, which do you think is the best buy? And both are able to run ArmA I and II smoothly?

Thanks!

[Lepardi 0]

Well well, I figured I should posted here as I never was much into desktops but now the opportunity is here to buy one and maybe you can help me out.

I am trying to buy a desktop under the 1000€ mark (portuguese values) to be able at least to play ArmA I and II in good resolution and smoothly. I found 2 I liked so far.

1500€ without screen

- Intel QuadCore Q9450

- Nvidia GeForce 9800 GX2 1GB DDR3 PCI-X

- 4GB RAM DDR2 800MHz

- Disco de 1TB SATAII (7200 rpm)

- DVD+R Dual Layer 8.5Gb recorder

- 600W UPS

- Acase El Diablo Black midtower

860€ with screen

- AMD Phenom QuadCore 9850 2.5GHZ skt AM2+

- Motherboard Asus M3A78-EMH HDMI

- RAM Kingston Hyper X 2GB 1066MHz CL5

- (2x) 320GB SATA2 16MB 7200rpm

- LG TFT 22" W2252S-PF 5ms 10:000 black monitor

- graphics card is one between some options I am yet to know

- Nox Extreme Coolbay Window midtower

Both come with Windows Vista and same software bundle, the first one brings a printer for free. I am more turned towards the second as it is cheaper and brings a screen that here is worth 250€ and the motherboard reaches the 150€. I can increase RAM to 4GB if needed for 75€.

Considering the second's graphics card I believe the options are between 512 and 768 GPUs which are what I want. Preferably 768 though if there is no change in the price.

So, which do you think is the best buy? And both are able to run ArmA I and II smoothly?

Thanks!

None. Decide the parts on your own, don't get ready packages, those PC's are just horribly overpriced. And what goes for graphics card, ensure that you get a HD 4870 radeon to your PC.

[CameronMcDonald 146]

+1. Never buy packages if you have the skill to build your own. You will save shloads doing it yourself, and will learn quite a useful skill = potential $$$ from family members who are computer retarded.

[Placebo 29]

Yep I'd agree as well, buy the parts and build it yourself, if you're not confident building it yourself find a friend/relative who'll help you, much better in the long run

Looks like I'll finally be getting my 4870 this week, plus I got a free HDMI-DVI adaptor as I forget to put it in the box of the 9800 I RMA'd (oops)

[Deadfast 43]

Another word of agreement - don't buy pre-builds.

Buying a pre-build means that the seller gets a great chance to rip you off pretty badly.

Besides, there's a nice thing about pre-builds when it comes to warranty. For example here, in Czech Republic, if you buy a pre-build you get warranty 2 years only for the PC itself, not the components inside.

That's just rich, especially if the RAM they put you in had lifetime warranty.

If you don't have the skill to build the PC yourself, think about your friends.

Maybe there's someone who knows the stuff and you could ask him.

Even if you give him something for his trouble it'll still come cheaper than a pre-build.

@Placebo: You're gonna love it

The only issue is the temperature. The default cooling system I got with my Sapphire version seems to be quite silent (unlike people say about it), but unfortunately it doesn't cool a damn thing .

[echo1 0]

Yep I'd agree as well, buy the parts and build it yourself, if you're not confident building it yourself find a friend/relative who'll help you, much better in the long run

If youve never built a PC before, my advice is to get an old PC, disassemble it and build it again. Although specific designs and connections (etc) will be different to a new PC, you'll learn the basic principles. There are also a wide variety of guides on building PCs if you Google.

[Placebo 29]

@Placebo: You're gonna love it

The only issue is the temperature. The default cooling system I got with my Sapphire version seems to be quite silent (unlike people say about it), but unfortunately it doesn't cool a damn thing .

Mine's the Sapphire model as well, this one to be precise:

Radeon HD4870 Dual-DVI 512MB GDDR5 PCI Express x16

Presumably the same as yours?

My case is lined with foam to make it uber quiet, will keep an eye on the temperature when it arrives and is installed I read that there was some driver bug which stopped the fan from either running high enough to be effective or the bug stopped it from ever reducing speed when not at full load?

[VictorTroska 0]

Quote[/b] ]The only issue is the temperature. The default cooling system I got with my Sapphire version seems to be quite silent (unlike people say about it), but unfortunately it doesn't cool a damn thing

Yup, thats a bug in bios/drivers (of course its silent, because fan works @ 22% all the time), cooler does its job just fine, but you have to set fan RPM to 35-40%.

Fan fix: Link

Quote[/b] ]I read that there was some driver bug which stopped the fan from either running high enough to be effective or the bug stopped it from ever reducing speed when not at full load?

Yeah, fan works @ 22-23% all the time, thats just too low, like ~70°C in Idle. But with fan fix you can make several profiles. I have fan @35 % all the time, Idle is about  52°C.

Im waiting for T-Rad2  to be ready, so I can replace my stock cooler, as I always do with new card.

[Deadfast 43]

You gotta be...

OK thanks a bunch for the advice!

Setting the RPM to 40% seems to do the trick. Temperature while idle dropped from 68 to 44 and the noise level is much more acceptable than 50% which I tried before

I even tried 65% as recommended in the thread but, give me a break!

That guy gotta be deaf.

I heard the damn fan over music I was listening to in my headphones .

@Placebo: I've got the same exact card .

(the package - excuse the quality, the camera was running out of batteries so I had act fast )

[Lepardi 0]

Quote[/b] ]The only issue is the temperature. The default cooling system I got with my Sapphire version seems to be quite silent (unlike people say about it), but unfortunately it doesn't cool a damn thing

Yup, thats a bug in bios/drivers (of course its silent, because fan works @ 22% all the time), cooler does its job just fine, but you have to set fan RPM to 35-40%.

Fan fix: Link

Quote[/b] ]I read that there was some driver bug which stopped the fan from either running high enough to be effective or the bug stopped it from ever reducing speed when not at full load?

Yeah, fan works @ 22-23% all the time, thats just too low, like ~70°C in Idle. But with fan fix you can make several profiles. I have fan @35 % all the time, Idle is about  52°C.

Im waiting for T-Rad2  to be ready, so I can replace my stock cooler, as I always do with new card.

The card is designed to work in those temperatures, so not that much of a bug.