Addon Standardisation Project

[chris330 0]

Dear All,

I'm sure the vast majority of people reading this topic will not have read the following thread:

Flashpoint Support Thread

I did ask for someone to recommend an appropriate place for me to start this topic but it looks like I might have grown a beard and gone grey by the time that happens

So to summarize it is a project which will build a collection of addons made for Operation Flashpoint which will be optimized to remove unnecessary CPU power they may be consuming and make them as smooth and reliable runners as vehicles and units made by Bohemia. This is aimed mainly at multiplayer games to try and prolong as much life out of Operation Flashpoint as possible by boosting the attraction of its mutliplayer facility as well as benefitting Armed Assault users when it arrives.

A collection of suitable modern era addons will be assembled and optimized to represent every major nation in the world today. Later projects may include sci-fi and historic addons, but this largely depends upon whether or not the first run is successful or not.

So I have decided to start with:

The United States Of America

I have very little knowledge of military matters as I am a programmer by nature not an army enthusiast so I am asking for sensible suggestions as to which of America's present armed forces should be included in this project. I am only asking for modern era units at this stage. I need recommendations for air, land and sea units. I am happy to include important and well known specialist units such as the Marine Corps and the Rangers but not the more obscure specialised units such as the Navy Seals at this point. They will come in a later project dedicated purely to super-specialised infantry units of the world such as the Navy Seals, Special Air Service, Special Boat Service, Dutch Commandos and so on.

So please reply with your recommendations and where I can find a download of the replica addon of your suggested unit.

I do not wish to discuss further the aims of this project in this thread. Keep replies to technical disucssion and addon recommendation only please. If you wish to discuss the project's aims please do it via pm or start a new thread

Thank you in advance.

[Jackal326 1182]

For the US Marines I'd recommend SAFETYCATCH'S MARINES v2.0 (and my weapons) [/PLUG].

[chris330 0]

Thanks for the recommendation. I've just had a quick look at them and I think that's the USMC sorted I shall download them, and your weapons tonight and start work on them

**Edit:

Just to let you all know I shall be attempting to implement Ballistic Addons Studio's JAM project with all weapons used.

[CameronMcDonald 146]

What do you mean exactly (in a strictly technical sense) by optimization?

You mean removal of all scripts, unnecessary eye candy P3Ds, textures etc that are not required for strict OFP running?

[chris330 0]

Have a read through the thread link above it will explain everything. I am not intending to remove anything. The project will attempt to clean up inefficient code and increase the number of LOD's used (removes unnecessary CPU power when unit is some distance away) and basically do everything Bohemia made vehicles do which addon makers may not have exhaustively attempted to adhere to.

[klavan 0]

I do not wish to discuss further the aims of this project in this thread. Keep replies to technical disucssion and addon recommendation only please. If you wish to discuss the project's aims please do it via pm or start a new thread

I understand your reason and in addiction i think this is a very nice idea in my opinion and even mission makers could benefit from this.

However i'm wondering if all the addon makers would give you the permissions to alter their works (thinking to BAS or COMBAT stuffs for example).

Their policy is very clear about this.

klavan

[chris330 0]

I do not wish to discuss further the aims of this project in this thread. Keep replies to technical disucssion and addon recommendation only please. If you wish to discuss the project's aims please do it via pm or start a new thread

I understand your reason and in addiction i think this is a very nice idea in my opinion and even mission makers could benefit from this.

However i'm wondering if all the addon makers would give you the permissions to alter their works (thinking to BAS or COMBAT stuffs for example).

Their policy is very clear about this.

klavan

I agree completely, and that was nicely put As for addon makers not allowing their work to be used or altered (even if it only for the purposes of optimzation) by others, then there is not much I can do about that. In that case that particular addon maker(s) work wll have to simply be excluded from the project and if it leaves a gap then so be it I'm afraid.

I think we're blessed in the extreme with the quality and variety of addons available today and if one says no, I'm sure there will be another that will say yes

[-)rStrangelove 0]

There are too many addons out by now and reediting LODs / optimizing code would be quite timeconsuming. Just think of the endless tests you'd have to do again. I mean, maybe there are reasons exactly why and how an addon config scripter made this and that in such a specific way.

My 2 cents. May sound pessimistic but i really like the idea tbh.  

A centralized optimisation site for custom addons makes more sense for ArmA i think. (some kind of model templates collection - basically what JAM did for magazines & weapons)

Guidelines for custom models could be like:

50 models standing side to side viewed from a distance of 100m should still offer 60% of the maximum fps the user had when no models were there.

[sanctuary 19]

)rStrangelove @ Mar. 06 2006,17:05)]Guidelines for custom models could be like:

50 models standing side to side viewed from a distance of 100m should still offer 60% of the maximum fps the user had when no models were there.

A good stress test to see if an unit is really playable in every missions and not only to be used in "combat photography" is to use the BIS Battlefield SP mission and replace all the west unit in the mission.sqm by the soldiers you want to test.

If it is playable, the unit is very well optimised and can be used in every kind of missions, if it is unplayable... well.. "combat photography"

[-HUNTER- 1]

I think it will be a good idea, to sort out stuff like JAM etc etc etc for arma before things are made for ARMA so everything will be sorted before "it" starts!

[chris330 0]

Some very good suggestions there, escpecially the battlefield SP mission test.

As for config and particularity issues I do not (at present) anticipate them being much of a problem. If I can pick my way back through Dschulle's GetBankPitch utility from cold then I'm sure I can understand addon based scripts.

As for it being time consuming I do not mind as it has to be done sooner or later because the situation is getting way out of control and alot of good work is going to waste (i.e. only ending up being used as a mission editor toy as someone said earlier).

Thanks for the replies, I'm glad you all like the idea.

])rStrangelove,

I'll see if I can get those damned Amiga games out tomorrow and post some pics of them in the memorabilia thread

[-)rStrangelove 0]

It's not only a nice idea, it's a very important one and one that would need to solved rather soon. If you want to do it for Opf, you need to hurry otherwise ppl will use optimized addons for 2 months and then ArmA is out. (am i the only one who wonders if i'd be worth it at all?)

However, if you plan to use it for ArmA, you'd certainly have the chance to pull off a very important 'ruleset' right from the beginning. If such a custom addon guideline site would be in place about the time when ArmA is out it would be heavily frequented from the start.

Cause i believe once ArmA is out and ppl know how to port over their models ppl will go nutz. Bigger textures, smoother bodies and UBERdetailed equipment.

As already mentioned, good for the future combat photo thread, but not for smooth gameplay / huge 64men online battles.

A guideline site could have the chance to stop this hype before it begins and make ppl realize addons are needed for missions, not for anything else. (just my opinion of cause)

Quote[/b] ]I'll see if I can get those damned Amiga games out tomorrow and post some pics of them in the memorabilia thread

Go for it!

[ricoadf 0]

I think the easiest way of doing this is for future moders/addon creators to work together in makeing new addons MP friendly (ADF mod is dedicated to makeing all of our addons MP friendly, and i think other mods/addon creators should also do this.). By shareing scripts that do work in MP, helping eachother clean out others scipts etc.

To go through and make what you are suggesting is a good idea, but would always leave certain addons out that one person might not like, but others do.

But still a good idea, and good luck if you go through with it

[chris330 0]

Thanks for the replies [)r and Rico

I think this indeed a good time to get a good rule set sorted out. I think the project will pull addons already made into an MP and CPU friendly situation and force future addon makers to be much more conscious of making their equipment usable in large missions.

I am intending it for use both with Flashpoint and Armed Assault. At present of course I am not familiar with what extra I will have to do to make it Armed Assault compatible (is anybody?). All I do know though is that the quality of some of the work out there warrants making it user friendly.

I have however decided to limit the first run of this project to infantry units only.

Biting off more than you can chew has been the downfall of many an aspiring Flashpoint project in the past. I do not intend to fall into that trap.

Better to go steadily and then learn as I go and when I'm much faster at addon optimization and multiplayer script writing/re-editing then I can go for the bigger stuff. As it happens infantry are quite a bit more complex than you would think, so are a great place to start (I'm not exactly new to addon making anyway )

I have acquired SafetyCatch's marines and I will be having a good look through them later. There's quite a lot to them and there are some scripts attached and a relatively extensive config file so this looks like the ideal unit pack to start with. I will contact SafetyCatch privately later this week and inform him of my intentions and await his reponse.

They also happen to be brilliant replicas of the real thing and would thus make a superb start to the project if I can optimize them successfully. After all they don't come much bigger than the US Marine Corps

So a big thank you to those who have replied so far as it would appear the community believes there is a need for the project and therefore I intend to start work on it. I can dip in and out of the SetBank and SetPitch explorations I'm making to give me a break when I get sick of looking at addon models.

Just one more thing, I have - of course - by now looked at a Bohemia made infantry unit. The Blackops to be precise. There are 5 distance LOD's ranging from around 0.350 up to 5. I cannot however remember what distance sizes this corresponds to? I would guess kilometers? Anyway this is the standard I will be working to.

I once saw a model of Microsoft's 737-400 in FlightSim 2002 reduced to only 10 or so faces when viewed at distance (this is how Microsoft made it). I think the first LOD was something like 4000+ faces. So when at distance the CPU has 400 times less work to do (approximately - there are other factors).

I think therefore it should become fairly obvious how much CPU power could be saved by doing this for an addon which has been left with only say one LOD and has 3000+ faces, added to that if there is any unnecessary detail in the Geometry or Fire Geometry LOD's too. Bearing in mind in particular how rudimentary Boehmia's Geometry and Fire Geometry LOD's are compared to the detail of the low distance LOD's.

I think there is loads of room to maneuver

[-)rStrangelove 0]

If i think of a normal opf combat situation i'd say that soldiers seen from about 500m are about 3 pixels high and 1 pixel wide on a 1024x768 screen.

I know nothing of LODs in OpF but i think different LODs beyond 500m would be rather pointless, wouldn't it ?

[nephilim 0]

arma wont give the user the pissibility to use uber texes

of course 2048er texes are supported

but bear in mind that a 2048*2048 texture is 2mb large!

an well optimized and binerized addon is only about 1mb to 600 kb big

just dumping shit into models wont do..

[eestikas88 0]

Lods are lods.When distance increases,then only 1 lod changes.

0.001-5......

whatever number.

[chris330 0]

The Bohemia made model of the night Blackops uses 5 detail LOD's which dramatically drop in model detail level as the number goes higher. In fact the last detail LOD is made up purely of crosshaired planes not actual 3D models very much like the muzzle flash texture system. The face count drops to something like less than 30 or so at detail LOD 5. This is I am told standard practice for computer game models, and I can see why.

Having seen this used here and in Microsoft Flight Simulator 2002 I am prepared to believe there is a very important reason for it and therefore this is the standard I shall be copying, unless it is certain that only two LOD's are actually rendered by the game (is this what the last reply was implying? - I didn't quite understand it).

I cannot obviously do anything about texture sizes in the high detail LOD's because it will compromise the appearance qualities of the addon maker's work, but I think texture sizes and details could be dramatically reduced for lower detail LOD's.

I have had a good look through the USMC package:

There are what appear to be some mistakes in the config file with regard to the Javelin launcher. One I think is a typo and the other has its thrust and thrust-time values wrong. I have had experience of this myself when I made the LAW-80 some years ago, so I think this can be fixed and thus allow AI soldiers to fire it accurately.

Wound textures do not appear to work, I could do with some brief advice on how these operate as it is a grey area for me.

I think there might be a way to improve the backpack system to make it more reliable.

I want to have some solid information and some good thoughtful ideas and potential bug fixes for SafetyCatch before I approach him with the proposition so he knows he will not be wasting his time by liasing with me.

Once I have sorted out things that can be sorted out and I am confident that the first units this project has been trialled on (SafetyCatch's USMC units) have been improved I will stop posting news and updates in this thread as I don't think constantly providing updates in a thread benefits projects somehow, so I will only post updates when there is something very relevant to add.

Optimized units will only be sent to selected beta testers from then on until there is something worth releasing.

It appears the minor bugs and significant complexities of SafetyCatch's USMC package have made these very good units to start with.

I will let you know about progress that has been made up until the end of the tweaking of this unit pack, and report anything significant.

I suppose even if SafetyCatch denies permission then I will still have learned alot anyway.

Assuming the project goes well then once I have done a few different themed units I will release another tutorial along the same detailed lines of my GetBankPitch reverse engineer tutorial, which will detail how to get rudimentary things right for making addons and keeping them clean

**Update,

Just checked out Bohemia's Blackops again. The named selection list gradually goes down as the LOD number goes up. Above a certain point wound textures are not displayed, and certain other things are left out too. I can't see Bohemia doing this for no reason

[Jackal326 1182]

I have had a good look through the USMC package:

There are what appear to be some mistakes in the config file with regard to the Javelin launcher. One I think is a typo and the other has its thrust and thrust-time values wrong. I have had experience of this myself when I made the LAW-80 some years ago, so I think this can be fixed and thus allow AI soldiers to fire it accurately.

Wound textures do not appear to work, I could do with some brief advice on how these operate as it is a grey area for me.

Sure you got the correct version? Wound textures work fine for me across all units.

Never-the-less, I myself have been talking to Safetycatch about the units recently (I'm in the same online squad as he is). Anyway, it seems once he returns from the U.S. (he's currently on holiday) he'll be updating them himself.

[chris330 0]

Just had another look through that pack and the units are awesome and so are the weapons. Got a bit too carried away and started gunning down my own team mates but I think that's okay in the mission editor

Here's the detail LOD proof. I have made a Blackop unit which has been textured different shining colours for each detail LOD. Have a look at the proof mission below. Drive straight ahead in the jeep and you will see a blue dot in the distance, which will then turn to green and then yellow and then finally red. Each colour change means the engine is calling a different detail LOD.

LOD demo

[chris330 0]

I have had a good look through the USMC package:

There are what appear to be some mistakes in the config file with regard to the Javelin launcher. One I think is a typo and the other has its thrust and thrust-time values wrong. I have had experience of this myself when I made the LAW-80 some years ago, so I think this can be fixed and thus allow AI soldiers to fire it accurately.

Wound textures do not appear to work, I could do with some brief advice on how these operate as it is a grey area for me.

Sure you got the correct version? Wound textures work fine for me across all units.

Never-the-less, I myself have been talking to Safetycatch about the units recently (I'm in the same online squad as he is). Anyway, it seems once he returns from the U.S. (he's currently on holiday) he'll be updating them himself.

Sorry didn't read this before replying. I must have got the wrong version (or I have installed it incorrectly by mistake). I am more than happy to have a crack at the Javelin issue right away if you like? I think I might have a way of making the back pack thing more reliable if you'd like me to have a look at that to? These are fantastic units and I'd really like to see them working at top potential, especially the entry teams

[chris330 0]

Just got back from the jacuzzi down at the gym and whilst I was there I decided to have a re-appraisal of the project and its aims.

I think being realistic and from a community harmony perspective it would be a bad idea for me to continue with the idea of improving and optimizing other people's work, even if I obtain their permission. I have therefore decided to shelve the idea indefinitely.

I shall instead conduct my own research into how effective a saving in CPU power this makes. Therefore I am still in the market for an MLOD infantry model from someone if anyone would be kind enough to donate one. It will not be released or anything like that it will purely be for my own research purposes, to attempt to prove one way or another if this is worth it.

Obviously if I can prove it is worthwhile (I'm thinking big confrontations and a screen capture of the CPU usage history in the task manager) I shall produce a full detailed tutorial on how to optimize addons and the decision on whether or not to work to these guidelines will then reside with the addon makers themselves.

I think on balance it is the most sensible course of action to pursue

FAO: USMC team:

The offer for help is still open on the Javelin issue if you want me to have a tinker with it

I think therefore now this thread should be limited to replies and suggestions on how to optimize addons, so please share your ideas, even if you think they might not be relevant, as they may well turn out to be very important

[chris330 0]

Okay a very knowledgable and skillful addon maker and programmer has just posted a very good topic on exactly how to optimize addons in this forum. As far as I can see now there is no requirement for me to do any more work on this as she has covered everything you would ever need to know

Just on a side note though I fixed the Javelin With AI controlled soldiers it is now a sure fire hit every time:

Please note that textures are not shown here as it is a privately edited model by me. SafetyCatch's units have perfect realistic textures.

Oh, and wound textures work fine too, just the head I can't seem to get working. Wound textures are so realistic that it isn't easy to notice them to begin with because they are very accurate renditions of what they would really look like instead of just large red splotches