Racial Violence Continues in Australia

[cozza 24]

You all so got to remenber that we just had a terrorst scare where they were planing to blow a nuclear power plant in Sydney.

But even when riot like this happen I still think australia still the best place to live. I would like to live in Sweeden were my where my familys from.

[Bordoy 0]

Racism is just the lame excuse for some that fail miserably in their own lives and want to blame that on others.

For matters of stupidity, they blame it on someone who doesn´t look like them. That´s the most easy thing for them as they are uneducated, lazy, unemployed because of their lack of education and they think it´s a good thing to beat up some who don´t look like them as they know no better way of distinguishing people.

Thats the weirdest thing I've heard in a long long time.

One of or probs about three of my mates are racists, yer they all at college doing A-levels and have applied to Universities. They have hardly 'failed miserably' in their lives and are hardly 'uneducated'. And the 'lazy' bit, well they all do sport at college (1 rugby, 2 football) I'm led to believe.

Quote[/b] ]That´s the rascist mob.

No it's not.

Quote[/b] ]Racists are just the scum of a nation and we all have an obligation to get rid of them wherever they pop up if we want to find a way that makes it easy for all of us to live together.

Opression of freedom of speech.........nice  

Quote[/b] ]I´m surprised that young people are so open for racist ideas as they are the ones who benefit most of open minded societies where they can speak out without getting put to a gulag.

They probably would be if we were 'to get rid of them wherever they pop us' as you kindly put it.

[Bordoy 0]

I think I live in a great country, and wouldn't trade it for anywhere else (well, maybe Amsterdam).  

Who wouldn't want to live there?

Just a semi-related question... Are there any prominent extreme (free for interpretation ) right-wing parties in Australia?

Good post by the way Bals. Spot on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_Australia

Here you go mate. All the parties in Oz.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]Opression of freedom of speech.........nice

Waving flags and breaking bottles on coloured skin has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

If you want to grant them freedom of speech, send them to renewed Nürnberg trials. That´s the place where those speeches should be conducted.

I don´t know what you would say if someone would praise the underground attacks in London and claim that he does so because he got freedom of speech. Do you think your 3 racist friends would just sit there and let him finish his speech ? Yes ?

Apart from that, show me your friends and I tell you who you are. Old saying, still applicable.

Quote[/b] ]One of or probs about three of my mates are racists, yer they all at college doing A-levels and have applied to Universities. They have hardly 'failed miserably' in their lives and are hardly 'uneducated'. And the 'lazy' bit, well they all do sport at college (1 rugby, 2 football) I'm led to believe.

I was talking about the racist mob. Still there are some half-intellectual weirdos that organize and coordinate such events. They exploit the idea for their ego or other motivations or the Uber-Reich goal. It doesn´t make you better if you wear a suit or are dressed with a "Proud to be...*insert any stupid slogan here*" T-Shirt. A Racist is a racist.

As a matter of fact the latest riots in Australia were not comitted by upper-class racist-think-tank people in suits.

They were comitted by the rolling racist mob.

[cozza 24]

Wernt the redfern riots started by cops killing a aborgine kid

redferns in sydny for people who dont know

[shinRaiden 0]

Now hold on a second here, just because someone is a degenerate drunken redneck krumedgeon or yobbo does not - imo - automaticly make them a calculated racist. They may be an insensitive idiot clod, but that doesn't mean that they're on a deliberate lynching campaign.

When my brother's half-mexican friend and my 120% whitey brother make derogatory comments in agreement about the ghettoization of the mexican immigant community in my town, does that make them racist? I have a good friend in the IT business, a PK from Philly. The only white kid in his High School class. The guy was more or less the school 'mascot', with the general attitude of 'nobody messes with our white kid, because he's as much a brother as a white kid can be.' When I'm hanging out with my Japanese friends, we're often trashing the anime n00bF4ntards for not getting a clue about the culture, history, or other delicate social constructs. Does that make me a racist, for being a white guy agreeing with a japanese guy that a bunch of whiteys are jerks? If I argue that affirmative action, reverse disrimination, ghettoization, or other such punitive 'compensatory' actions are institutionalizing the social problems, does that make me a racist for having a dialogue? The redneck ghettos in town are as insular as the mexican ones, and we have almost no black, asian, or recent europeon demographics. Then again we have the same number of farm supply stores, logging equipment shops, and auto-parts stores as we do grocery markets or real mexican restaurants. We don't even have a gravel pit, which is why the high school kids don't have a lot of options for their kegger parties. I guess when the only notable news is when you next door neighbor had a 'client' get killed by a horse-kick while humping Mr. Ed in another neighbor's barn, you know your town really is a dead-end butthole.

Honest-to-goodness, there's a 90-something yearold guy around the corner that lives in a rotted out hulk of 4 old mining shacks with an old dog that vomits all over the garbage filled house, and all the guy does all day is clean his guns, watch porn, and curse mexicans who he claims try to steal his stuff in the middle of the night. That and his good-fer-nuthin kid that I grew up with. However, if you take the time to get to know him, help him out, and ignore his senile old ramblings, he's a nice old human being with a few mixed up ideas.

I guess the point I'm trying to make here is that idiots say stupid stuff all the time, and especially so when slobbering drunk. That does not automaticly make them hood-wearing Sheets, just drunken sods.

I'm not trying to defend drunken idiots, I'm just saying that in defense of the drunken idiot redneck population - which comprises the large portion of the area I live in - that being an idiot does not automaticly equal racist inclinations. Rednecks can hate anyone for any drunken reason, and it's ignorant to assume that one is hated solely for ethnic reasons.

Rather than jump the gun on the racism issue, I think that is an exploited excuse for the underlying lawlessness and social distress problems. Case in point is the 1999 WTO riots here in Seattle. The Save The Turtles people and the Jumbo Pink Condoms just wanted to wander around in a rambling protest. A small unaffiliated group of anarchist terrorists exploited the situation and triggered a destabilization. That in turn lead to mis-information, and increased community agitation and participation based on hearsay.

Somebody started the SMS chains to agitate the rednecks. Those are the true racists, the rest are drunken peons.

Someone runs the immigrant gangs who defy social order. Those are terrorists, their minions the ghettoized orphans of society.

Now if someone had remembered to bring a soccer ball it would have been just a friendly game with hooligans, right?

[harley 3 1185 0]

Valid points all round. However, here are my thoughts on the matter;

Racism is basically an extreme form of selfishness - no one is born "Racist", and too much blood has been spilled by our forefathers for the reason for racism to be old feuds et cetera. Most people who riot and are branded racists today mainly do so out of economic self-interest - the riots in Paris occurred because the young Arab and African population were fed up of being on the bottom rung of the socio-economic ladder. In part the rioters in Sydney will have acted because they don't want the Lebanese or other economic groups on the socio-economic ladder at all.

In a bizaare way one side always feels threatened - culturally, economically, socially, and in this case the locals of the Sydney suburbs took the isolated (yet totally unjustifiable and outrageous) beating and maiming of the two life guards as their flashpoint, just as the young Arabs and Africans took the death of the teenagers in the substation as theirs.

My other thought is; is not "Multiculturalism" itself not racist? The merging and forced assimilation which is expected of everyone? Most people generally don't have problems with people of other faiths, yet it's this issue of race which hangs things up (and it is religion, not race which tends to define many a person these days), which leads me back to my above conjecture on economic selfishness; no native wants to lose his job to an immigrant, and no immigrant wants to be passed over in favour of a native. These are the true roots of racism - people who use historical arguements ("things have always been this way") are merely trying to justify themselves.

My personal opinion is that whilst "one culture, one God" may be a reality in the distant future, we sure as f***ing Hell don't need it yet. Educate people, give them all the same chance of Freedom of speech and Freedom of employment -and then there will be no more racism.

[crashdome 3]

Shinraiden's right.  There is a fine line between hate for an idea/way of life/political stance/etc... and hate for another human being simply out of ethnicity or race.

However a lovely little line like this one puts it into a nice sharp perspective:

Quote[/b] ] got ambushed by 3 black people a week ago. Lucky I got away, next time I'll have a weapon.

What does that mean? Does it mean that if 3 people of your equal ethnicity had jumped you then the thought of posting that comment on any other forum thread would never have happened? Would you threaten them with a weapon too? Perhaps you would have, but a comment like that in a 'Racism' thread can only be taken in one way. What was the point of that comment anyway?

This thread has gone stupid very quickly.

[EDIT] Let me rephrase .... this thread is as volatile as those fuel tanks that exploded in the UK. I am really hoping history doesn't repeat itself.

[shinRaiden 0]

Yeah, especially with the execution of the "Enlightened One" Tookie Williams, isn't high time that the Crips target for racial retribution - the korean and vietnamese quickie marts like they did over the non-korean/vietnamese drubbing of a drug addled Rodney King? C'mon, is the real oppression that of our grandfathers, or the outrageous prices of a 6-pack of Thunderbolt or Colt45? To a wino it might be.

For another perspective, you have Charlton Heston who marched with and in support of Martin Luther King. He also advocated as NRA president the right to bear arms in self-defense against gang-bangers who happen to be of any race, due to the extra-racial notion of general societal order.

Here, if a black guy shoots a cop while hopped up on drugs, the media reports it as an expression of repressed outrage over percieved police oppression. If a white kid shoots a cop while hopped up on drugs, he's a wanker who's going up the river for a long time. Under what rational grounds does reporting the inconsistency in reporting make me the racist?

Thoughts to ponder for the un-drunken masses, though some have obviously posted here in the past in somewhat inebriated states.

-edit-

Now to make this personal, I have a friend who considers himself to be an edmucated liberal, but we all know he's as much a redneck as the rest of us. Anyway, his ancestors are half-Irish/half-scottish, while mine are 1/3 english 2/3 mixed scandinavian. So my ancestors slaughtered and oppressed each other, and mine his and his mine. Who friggin cares, the dead can sort it out between themselves. All that matters to us is that we're friends and the other's wrong on politics.

[jtec 0]

Quote[/b] ]My personal opinion is that whilst "one culture, one God" may be a reality in the distant future, we sure as f***ing Hell don't need it yet.  Educate people, give them all the same chance of Freedom of speech and Freedom of employment -and then there will be no more racism.

Dont most countries do that now tho?  I know for sure that the UK educate people, give them all the same chance of freedom of speech and employment and we still have major problems with race tension (one recently against black and indian communitys)  

Now i may sound like a member of the Bnp but multiculturism doesnt work very well (not saying it hasnt worked at all) but if you were to look around England you will notice that communitys are quite sectional.  Why is it so sectional you ask?  Its just these people feel comfy with thier own race and culture in their set areas.  

A lil story about my nephews muslim mate.  We were driving him home one day and he quickly ducked down out of sight because he was scared a gang of muslim lads were hanging outside a mosque, his reasons for ducking were due to the fact that i was in the car and im a white person.  He knew that if they saw him with me in the same car he would get beaten up by them.  

Also check this out and then wonder why so much discrimination towards immigrants in our countries http://www.met.police.uk/wanted/

(im probs classed as a racist now im not bothered)

[Major Fubar 0]

I think I live in a great country, and wouldn't trade it for anywhere else (well, maybe Amsterdam).

Who wouldn't want to live there?

Just a semi-related question... Are there any prominent extreme (free for interpretation ) right-wing parties in Australia?

Good post by the way Bals. Spot on.

Some notable examples (from the wiki link provided above) are Australia First, Australians Against Further Immigration, National Action and One Nation (isn't it odd how these type of parties have similar names all around the world). All of these, in one form or another, promote right wing ideals and insular/anti-multicultural ideals (some moreso than others).

Fortunately these are small independant parties for the most part (the price you pay for having a free political system is that all sorts of crackpots can stand).

Australia, like America and England, is basically a two-party country. Labour (roughly equivalent to Democrats) and the ironically named Liberal (roughly equivalent to Republicans).

John Howard, our current PM, is Liberal. Unfortunately, current Liberal policy is heading more and more to far right ideals (anti-refugee policies, industrial relations reforms that are basically removing rights from employees and adding rights to employers, and sweeping "anti-terrorism" policies similar to America's patriot act).

IMHO, John Howard is the worst PM Australia has had in my lifetime, but keeps getting reelected (unlike America, we have no 2 term limit). This makes me think that our population as a whole is subscribing to more right wing ideals, or are sorely ignorant and misinformed. Either way - not good.

[shinRaiden 0]

Thats what we rednecks keep telling you, that your naive pansy liberals are just a bunch of closet communists that can't fathom that Stalin and Mao were more than 'misguided'.

[Thunderbird 0]

Racism must not be tolerated in anytime, anywhere, it should be punished and laws must be applied.

Remember what happened during the second world war, how the hell can some people dare again to attack others because of their religion, national origin, gender, or disability, as well as their race or color, after the genocide that occured more than 50 years ago.

Regards

Thunderbird84

[Ares1978 0]

Racism must not be tolerated in anytime, anywhere, it should be punished and laws must be applied.

Are you talking about racism as acts of aggression or as part of freedom of speech, or both?

If you are talking about physically assaulting or discriminating because of "race" (a bullshit non-scientific concept anyway), ethnicity or gender, I absolutely agree with you.

I'm just asking because every single person trying to limit the freedom of speech, no matter how offensive some may find it, should, in my humble opinion, be dragged outside and shot like the thoughtcrime-declaring nazi bastard that he or she is. Just like 60 years ago.

[Thunderbird 0]

Quote[/b] ]Are you talking about racism as acts of aggression or as part of freedom of speech, or both?

Freedom of speech is a fundamental right but it should stop when it would seriously harm others without 'real' reasons. (insignificant racist insults...etc).

Regards

Thunderbird84

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

Bordoy-

Quote[/b] ]Thats the weirdest thing I've heard in a long long time.

One of or probs about three of my mates are racists, yer they all at college doing A-levels and have applied to Universities. They have hardly 'failed miserably' in their lives and are hardly 'uneducated'. And the 'lazy' bit, well they all do sport at college (1 rugby, 2 football) I'm led to believe.

Lazy regarding matters of race and stereotyping/ taking the easy way out. If it comes to that, i used to have a 'racist friend' until he joined the USMC and we lost contact. He was quite intelligent, until it came to matters of ethnicity when a noticable fuzziness and jokey immaturity became apparent. A racist is a fucking dick. Even if theyre an otherwise nice person, theyre a fucking dick. If you cant see this you're a fucking dick and you need to listen to more world music, or have sex with an immigrant girl or something. I mean we're all human, life is too short. Grow up.

Any children reading will be sure to excuse my dirty foreign germanic profanities due my naturally likeable character.

shinRaiden

Quote[/b] ]Thoughts to ponder for the un-drunken masses, though some have obviously posted here in the past in somewhat inebriated states.

Objection your honour, i totally object to this absurd allamagation.

Plus im listening to 'Suzanne' by Leonard Cohen which is one of the 17 coolest songs in the human world. Maybe.

Oh god, why do we act so inhumanly towards each other. The humanity, the humanity!

(+the Chelsea Hotel too)

[Major Fubar 0]

As as often been said, there are limits on freedom of speech:

I cannot, for instance, walk into a crowded cinema, yell "Fire!" and claim protection under freedom of speech. I cannot make fake emergency number phonecalls and claim freedom of speech. I can't make death threats or threats of violence against someone and claim freedom of speech.

Similarly, inciting violence against minority groups (or anyone else, for that matter) is not (or at least, should not be) protected by freedom of speech.

[Major Fubar 0]

If you cant see this you're a fucking dick and you need to listen to more world music, or have sex with an immigrant girl or something. I mean we're all human, life is too short. Grow up.

There is a very clear line between political discussion and personal attacks against fellow board members. This comes very close to the latter.

Consider this a first and last warning - if you can't discuss and debate like civilised people, don't post here. If this thread devolves into personal attacks, it will be locked, and offenders will be lucky if they are welcome back here by the time ArmA is relased. As I said, no more warnings. Behave, everyone.

[shinRaiden 0]

Actually, given the context, I'd have to agree with FULL context of IsthatyouJohnWayne's comment, in that the root of racism is ignorance. If you fail to see that connection, then these forums are going to be a little over your head on average. Go try your favorite anime forums, they're full of flamers.

What people fail to understand about the Freedom Of Speech notion is that I do have the 'freedom' to walk into a theatre without a minder or a spokesperson and yell out 'Fire'. What I don't have freedom from is the consequences of inciting a public disturbance, or related concepts of libel and slander. I have the freedom to public state dissenting opinions that some people are politically more privileged for what I feel to be baseless and anti-social reasons, but Freedom Of Speech does not grant me immunity from counter-attacks of libel and slander if my charges are unfounded.

-edit-

At least in America, where we're all mixed up mutts, we have the opportunity to see things a little different. I can drive into town to a little restaurant with a Chinese name, where the management are Korean Fundamentalists, and Mexican immigrants in the kitchen, order an allegedly Japanese meal, and consider the irony of it all.

when I was in Europe this summer, I practically lived off of train station Donner Kebab's sold by Turkish immigrants and imported Japanese Qoo. That and what ever was for breakfast at the Alcatraz Hostels I stayed at. What I failed to pack was a big glowing neon "n00b" sign, but I doubt it would have been any more obvious. :P

Now as an admitted non-racist redneck, would it be plausiblely permissible to launch a rebuttal against the slanderous sweeping attacks and insults of the general redneck character? Not all of us wear only Carharts, wear trucker hats, and hump dogs. I fit none of those three catagories. I am however not unfamiliar with basic heavy equipment operation, logging, ranch fence wrangling, obliteratin' varmits by dubious means, and do maintain a purient interest in any old military surplus junk. (I got a 20x30 desert camo net from a friendly neighboring booth at IITSEC completely saturated with genuine Iraqi dust and sand, oh happy days )

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

Naturally, i would just like to point out here that although i was quoting Bordoy at the time, the comments quoted by the esteemed Major Fubar were directed at no member in particular and were simply a general statement of my revulsion towards racism as such.

I would apologise if i thought the language used would create undue offence, but i take the view that we are all insightful and intelligent individuals here and so it seems apparent to me that no such apology will prove necessary.

do i win a sucking up medal?

[Major Fubar 0]

Nonetheless, people will not flame or launch personal attacks on other members of these forums, even if they feel it is deserved. If someone says something that you think is beyond the bounds of what is acceptable, feel free to either ignore it, reply in a non-flammatory manner, or report it to a moderator. Flames and personal attacks, even if provoked, are against the rules of this forum. No room for interpretation there.

...anyway, to the point you raise: I disagree. Saying you have the right to yell "fire" but must accept the consequences is like saying you have the right to rape or murder someone, so long as you accept the consequences. Inciting violence is not something that should be condoned in a civlised society.

Now, if someone were to express their views that they don't want ethnic groups in their country in a way that does not incite violence towards them, it's a diffeent matter. As much as I might personally disagree with their sentiment, they do have the right to express their beliefs.

[Major Fubar 0]

Naturally, i would just like to point out here that although i was quoting Bordoy at the time, the comments quoted by the esteemed Major Fubar were directed at no member in particular and were simply a general statement of my revulsion towards racism as such.

I would apologise if i thought the language used would create undue offence, but i take the view that we are all insightful and intelligent individuals here and so it seems apparent to me that no such apology will prove necessary.

do i win a sucking up medal?

No worries, just trying to head off potential problems before we get there. It was more a general warning than specifically at your comments.

[sanctuary 19]

I don't really know the internal way the justice is functionnning in other countries and i would be interested to know it about this specific point, but in France there are laws (that has been reinforced since 1990, as it was existing before, but unfortunately rather ignored) that can get you into a nice lawsuit if you say something racist publicly.

Some french people that certainly thought them protected by their popularity in media or their political status got some tribunal problems with that in the recent last years .

But despite this law improvement, racism is always healthy in my country, from and against each races, as whatever kind of racism is going on, you will always find apologists to semantically transform a racist fact into something that does not fall under anti-racist laws.

Sadly, in France some people are very good at talking and manipulating words to repeatedly defend what is just disgusting.

And so , it creates frustrations from racism victims, that will lead into even more racism, like in a never ending circle.

[EiZei 0]

I don't really know the internal way the justice is functionnning in other countries and i would be interested to know it about this specific point, but in France there are laws (that has been reinforced since 1990, as it was existing before, but unfortunately rather ignored) that can get you into a nice lawsuit if you say something racist publicly.

I really don't get banning "hate speech", it does no good and just limits the things we can say freely. Some big forums in Finland have already banned pretty much all negative opinions on immigration no matter if they are racially motivated or not.

If you are willing to kill/maim/genocide people of certain ethnicity you won't be stopped by couple months of prison or a fine.

[Thunderbird 0]

Unfortunately there are no barriers against it, I think the best way to fight it is to sensitize people for the importance of cultural diversity and to make'em understand society and the world as well as for shaping society's concept of the world.

Racism's just a sort of mixture of frustration, ignorance, apprehension and hatred. I'm sure if people would make more efforts to understand the sources that caused the current social problems, they'll definitely get a clear view of the situation instead of hiding behind stereotypical views.

Best Regards

Thunderbird84