T-90S

[mechastalin 0]

I'd happily give updating that Black Eagle a shot,Can anyone tell me how it should fare against the Abrams?

[king homer 1]

I actually happen to think theres enough friggin Russian tanks floating around and the Russians do quite well addonwise for everything.

Make something else. <--- I havent used that one yet so i had to.

EDIT:

I agree to an extent.

M1A1 Abrams - Done

M1A2 Abrams SEP - Done

M60A3 - Done

M60A1 with upgraded armor plates I would like

T-54/55 - Done

T-55 Enigma - Done

T-62 - Done

T-64 - Done

T-72 - Done

T-80 - Done

T-90 - Done

Challenger 1 - Done

Challenger 2 - Done

Leopard - Done

Merkava - Done

Leclerc - Done

ADF Tank - Done

Canadaian - Leopard

Is their anything else. It looks like everything needs to be updated to one armor scale. We need to set a standard and stick to it.

Where to find the Challenger 1 ?

[Itseme 0]

Plus all the chinese tanks from VME which are very good. Although its not easy to identify them in the editor. Because they have so many names i don`t know.

[FerretFangs 0]

I'd happily give updating that Black Eagle a shot,Can anyone tell me how it should fare against the Abrams?

Well, ( reportedly ) there's only been prototypes made, and even that information is inconclusive. The only thing you could do is to compare it to the T-90M, and scale the stats accordingly. Anyway, I'd appreciate someone cleaning the generic-game, and prototype-feel off the model.

[Ironsight 1]

Where to find the Challenger 1 ?

An old one but still does the trick:

Challenger 1

[Jezz 0]

t-62 i can only think of kenji's unless your counting one from ofpgwc which is a bit

[miles teg 1]

Armor and weapon lethality standards would be nice in theory, but in practice everyone would disagree on them.  Like for example its my belief that the Merkava Mk4 is most likely the most heavily armored tank in the world, but others might disagree with me on that.  Nevertheless I would not be willing to lower my mod's Merkava Mk4 armor levels a whole lot more then what it is.  

Also, a good T-62 has never been made.  RHS has a nice one coming up, but I've never seen any good ones currently.

Other nice tanks would include the Swedish S-tank, the AMX-90 armored car, the Chieftain MBT, a M728 Combat Engineer Vehicle (CEV) (its that M60 with a massive 152mm demolition gun), Sheridan light tank, M8 Armored Gun System (protypes deployed with airborne forces in Iraq), Stryker APC's, BTR-90, Achzerit Heavy APC (based on T55 chasis), ASU-57 Airborne Assault Gun, BMD-120, 2S9 120mm self propelled mortar (basically a BMD with a 120mm assault gun/mortar on it), various Iranian indigenous tank/apc designs.

Those are just to name a few that haven't been made as far as I know (although I seem to remember a chieftain a long time ago but I can't find it).

Below is the 2S9...a lovely Russian Sp mortar tank/assault gun.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[SPQR 0]

Where to find the Challenger 1 ?

An old one but still does the trick:

Challenger 1

There's also Hawk's Challenger MK.3 here  

Miles Teg, I do remember about two Challengers 1 et a Centurion, but no Chieftain, except maybe, unless errors, screens of an addon, currently being created by Kenji himself (hard-working on the T-62s), in the UKF forum  

Quote[/b] ]the AMX-90 armored car

Are you talking about the AML-90 armored car (AutoMitrailleuse LégÄre, and 90 for the main gun calibre) ?  

[bucket man 2]

Well I would have updated the dam Black Eagle for personal use myself if I could decrypt the config.

Conserning how Black Eagle would fare against Abrams wouldnt? Black Eagle would whoop its ass?

Didnt they fix most of the broblems that russian tanks used to have like the blow out panels, separated ammo from the crew and the round turret that was prone to blow off completely.

T-90 would be quite equal with Abrams but T-80UM2 Black Eagle has bigger main gun, waayyy heavier armor and all the little tweaks I mentioned earlier than T-90.

[Ironsight 1]

Quote[/b] ]the AMX-90 armored car

Are you talking about the AML-90 armored car (AutoMitrailleuse LégÄre, and 90 for the main gun calibre) ?

AML-90 has been made by the Malvinas mod

[SPQR 0]

AML-90 has been made by the Malvinas mod  

Yes I know this fact

But the only AMX I know are :

- AMX-10 family (P & RC)

- AMX-13 light tank

- AMX-30 MBT

- AMX-32 and AMX-40 MBT prototypes

- AMX-50 Heavy Battle Tant prototype

As Armored Cars, France used or use :

- Ferret

- AML-90

- AML-60/7 & AML-60/12

- EBR-75

- EBR-90

- ERC-90

- VBC-90

- and finally VBLs which may be considered as such by some people.

As far as I know, I never heard or read about an AMX-90 (meaning more or less "90 tons class tank")... otherwise the Army I'm in would have lied to me

[hellfish6 7]

I'd like to see the 2S9 (where is that pic from, Miles? It looks CGI), 2S23 (2S9 turret on the BTR80) and a 2S25 light assault gun for Russian/Soviet vehicles.

Maybe even an ASU-57 or -85.

[Grim_Fandango 0]

I actually happen to think theres enough friggin Russian tanks floating around and the Russians do quite well addonwise for everything.

Make something else.    <--- I havent used that one yet so i had to.

EDIT:

If you look at the models of Abrams and Leopards that have been made they're far more detailed than their russian counterparts. I don't mean that there aren't neccesarily as many russian addons as there are west addons, I mean that the level of the addons vary alot.

ORCS, Nashe Orusje(Our Weapons) and RHS have done theirs to even it out with amazing units and choppers, and as I have noted Sigma-6's T-90's are also really good, but not as cutting edge as their western counterparts have grown to be.

Still, inspite of recently getting a magnificent AN-72 Coaler from Footmuch, the Russians have an obvious gap in that they lack a mid-sized transport plane for armor/vehicle drops and larger paradrops of airborne infantry. As I suggested I think the AN-22 Antheus would be a great compromise of size and quality. More nimble than Vit's AN-124 (less stress on your computers as well), and greater room and more uses than Footmunchs AN-72 Coaler.

Sadly I have no skills at all in regards to creating addons, so it's really just an idea that I'm throwing out. I don't know if any other mission editors out there agree that they could use a mid-sized russian transport aircraft, but it's something I definetely lack at times.

["Jack" 0]

The upcoming CSLA add-on looks fantastic at the moment, they seem to have covered all bases. RHS (as far as I am aware) are still making add-ons at this very moment. Nashe Orusje(Our Weapons) team are making a fantastic MI-17 pack. the Spetnaz MOD also seem to be making progress, again, with top class add-ons.

As soon as these bigger packs get released the place will be brimming with high class ruskie toys to play with.

... while I'm here I might as well ask, is anyone making a bosnia/Yugoslav map or a MOD? because thats one conflict that has never been touched upon within the OFP community.

lets kill some croat muslims! ...

.... too soon?  

[Grim_Fandango 0]

The upcoming CSLA add-on looks fantastic at the moment, they seem to have covered all bases. RHS (as far as I am aware) are still making add-ons at this very moment. Nashe Orusje(Our Weapons) team are making a fantastic MI-17 pack. the Spetnaz MOD also seem to be making progress, again, with top class add-ons.

As soon as these bigger packs get released the place will be brimming with high class ruskie toys to play with.

... while I'm here I might as well ask, is anyone making a bosnia/Yugoslav map or a MOD? because thats one conflict that has never been touched upon within the OFP community.

lets kill some croat muslims! ...

.... too soon?  

I know that I'm not one to talk thinking about my dwarf-posts, but I really don't appreciate ridiculing of the serb genocide upon the muslim peoples of Yugoslavia.

Either way I agree that the upcoming mods will definetely improve the variety in the russian arsenal, and I can't applaud them enough for their work, if indeed it is as good as it looks. Vit's upcoming Mi-8 pack will be great once it's finished as well, and hopefully he'll get permission to finish the KA-52 Hokum he's working on.

[USSRsniper 0]

lol T-90...... its enough of T-80 to kill Abrams   if addons well balanced

[sputnik monroe 102]

Quote[/b] ]Armor and weapon lethality standards would be nice in theory, but in practice everyone would disagree on them.

The Falcon 4 community has standards. Why can't Flashpoint?

Quote[/b] ]Like for example its my belief that the Merkava Mk4 is most likely the most heavily armored tank in the world, but others might disagree with me on that.

The easy solution is to go with statistics on armor thickness and type rather than opinion.

[FerretFangs 0]

Well I would have updated the dam Black Eagle for personal use myself if I could decrypt the config.

Conserning how Black Eagle would fare against Abrams wouldnt? Black Eagle would whoop its ass?

Didnt they fix most of the broblems that russian tanks used to have like the blow out panels, separated ammo from the crew and the round turret that was prone to blow off completely.

T-90 would be quite equal with Abrams but T-80UM2 Black Eagle has bigger main gun, waayyy heavier armor and all the little tweaks I mentioned earlier than T-90.

Then what you've described is basically a tank that's more or less equal to the Abrams, like the Challenger II, Leopard II, and Leclerc. One shot kill for either, which is what we already knew.

Therefore, in actual combat it would come down to which ever had a better sensor suite, fire control system, and communications set. The only reason I'd give any sort of edge to the Abrams over the Black Eagle, ( Aside from the fact that the Abrams has actully been produced in large numbers, and is actually battle-proven, unlike the Black Eagle. ) is the ability for the fire control system to be updated from off-board sensors. If it comes down to first look, first shot, first kill, then the side with better sensor fusion, C4SI, and training wins the tank battle. And that's where I have to give the edge to the Abrams.

They just don't sit at two thousand meters from one another and slug it out like battles ships did in WWII. They sneak around and cheat, and the side that's got the answers to the quiz will win.

[Grim_Fandango 0]

Well I would have updated the dam Black Eagle for personal use myself if I could decrypt the config.  

Conserning how Black Eagle would fare against Abrams wouldnt? Black Eagle would whoop its ass?

Didnt they fix most of the broblems that russian tanks used to have like the blow out panels, separated ammo from the crew and the round turret that was prone to blow off completely.

T-90 would be quite equal with Abrams but T-80UM2 Black Eagle has bigger main gun, waayyy heavier armor and all the little tweaks I mentioned earlier than T-90.

Then what you've described is basically a tank that's more or less equal to the Abrams, like the Challenger II, Leopard II, and Leclerc. One shot kill for either, which is what we already knew.

Therefore, in actual combat it would come down to which ever had a better sensor suite, fire control system, and communications set. The only reason I'd give any sort of edge to the Abrams over the Black Eagle, ( Aside from the fact that the Abrams has actully been produced in large numbers, and is actually battle-proven, unlike the Black Eagle. ) is the ability for the fire control system to be updated from off-board sensors. If it comes down to first look, first shot, first kill, then the side with better sensor fusion, C4SI, and training wins the tank battle. And that's where I have to give the edge to the Abrams.

They just don't sit at two thousand meters from one another and slug it out like battles ships did in WWII. They sneak around and cheat, and the side that's got the answers to the quiz will win.

There are so many variables apart from the ones your describing, and I don't know if I believe that the US is per definition better at training it's crews. Of course it can only be speculation, but I think the Russian Federation can match the level of training.

Variables like speed, suspension (incl. sensor and regulatory systems) also play a part in all out tank-on-tank warfare, but either way I'm not qualified at all to guess on which tank would win an eventual battle.

Does the US Ambrams and the Russian Black Eagles use the same armor? The british have the new plastic composite armor, is that used on the newest line of Challengers and how does that affect the balance?

["Jack" 0]

... but I really don't appreciate ridiculing of the serb genocide upon the muslim peoples of Yugoslavia....

Your right, I appologise for the untasteful joke.

[bucket man 2]

Well Black Eagle has VERY heavily sloped armor on its turret + the new generation ERA that is said to be effective against DU rounds.

That is ofcourse speculation and its not yet decided wether the Black Eagle will come with 125mm gun or 152mm gun.

So a Black Eagle with 152mm gun and latest Tungsten ammo will penetrate the Abramses front armor but its not so sure if Abrams could penetrate Black Eagles front armor because of the ERA and sloped armor.

I am though fairly sure that Abrams has better electronics and similar shit but if they would duel in generic russian or european terrain the enganment ranges would be something like 300 meters.

At that range even T-55 with modern ammo could penetrate any modern tanks side armor.

Ofcourse they would not DUEL in realistic tank battle so that is quite irrelevant.

As you said it basically comes down on who spots who first. Or whos air cover will blow who first.

Edit: Im VERY drunken so dont complain about typos or other "errors" please.

[JGreyNemo 0]

You know, at the moment we have all these tanks all of which are fairly well modelled in p3d respects, they're just all completely unbalanced with each other config-wise.  If each orginial addonmaker DKM, Sigma, RHS etc.. allows the use of their model with a Unified Armour Values System that I think Sigma-6 proposed some time back *don't quote me*, then all these tanks which don't seem to get much use in missions (because of the imbalances with other third party addons) would be used all the time.

Cooperation in the community has always been OFP's strong suit.  I say this would be a good point to contact authors and get a project like this going.  Sanctuary's combined animation packs are a classic example of such cooperation.

On a sidenote, does the Black Eagle have any capability for smoothbore barrel-launched ATGMs like the T-90?  Or is the barrel rifled?  That feature is one of the determining factors for the T-90 having an edge over the Abrams in an OFP environment.. I stress... OFP.  Although I guess Abrams has STAFF now as well... It's a pity AI doesn't use it as much as human players over long distances.

[Grim_Fandango 0]

You know, at the moment we have all these tanks all of which are fairly well modelled in p3d respects, they're just all completely unbalanced with each other config-wise.  If each orginial addonmaker DKM, Sigma, RHS etc.. allows the use of their model with a Unified Armour Values System that I think Sigma-6 proposed some time back *don't quote me*, then all these tanks which don't seem to get much use in missions (because of the imbalances with other third party addons) would be used all the time.

Cooperation in the community has always been OFP's strong suit.  I say this would be a good point to contact authors and get a project like this going.  Sanctuary's combined animation packs are a classic example of such cooperation.

Hear hear!

I'm a n00b, so the people in contact with various modders might want to stick their heads together and get something started. In my oppinion it would definetely be a great asset for any mission editor

[mechastalin 0]

So the Black Eagle should have a slight edge over the Abrams? Thats weapon wise and such I mean.

[FerretFangs 0]

Well for a tank that has not been, and may never be mass-produced, that and a dollar will get you about a cup of coffee. But if that slight edge is more important to you than the track record of the battle-proven design that has dominated the world stage for as long as the Abrams has, so be it. My money is going to the team that can afford to produce and support their tank, train it's crews to take all comers, and use all available technology to win wars. There's a big difference between a tank that has proven it can kick ass, and a tank everyone else hopes can kick ass.