philcommando

[CanadianTerror 0]

I think it's more like blinded by common sense.

[philcommando 0]

No offense pathy. I am not the moderator, only a person who initiated this thread. Who is blinded by rage and who is not blinded by rage is for the fans to see. I certainly cant pick and name each individual who does that for what right do i have? Each will be allowed to feel in his heart and say it if he thinks fit so long as he abide by the rules of the forum and community.

What then is a post that is blinded by rage? This topic is a matured discussion on the issue to make attempts to not only address it, but to come out with creative SOLUTIONS, not for a display of childish angst or rage. i will not repeat what is the issue, for if one is not aware of it, it would mean one didnt follow nor read the thread all enough to think over it. And should one post without reading and understanding it, then it is a waste of the community's time to read his post as well as shows what kind of mentality that poster  has with his one liner flame posts. It doesnt make one cool to look cynical, more like a childish fool only, i am sad to say, no matter how smart he think he is, old or young. Just look above my post and perhaps you may understand what i mean.

As stated several times, no one needs to agree with me for who am i? I only seek an answer to a question. Each has his or her views and who is right, who is wrong?..its not for me to say, only time and market forces will tell. I am a nobody, an insignificant idiot to some if i may say. I dont matter. What matters are the legion of loyal ofp fans whom i had the priviledge to know.

[Pathy 0]

Well, i understand that. But when you say "most people" it generalises a great deal of well thought out opinions and rubbishes them - thats all i´m saying, i can too see the people who have missed the point, think your talking about compulsory payements or suchlike, and go on a bender.

But most people are actually talking about donations, and the effects it will have. I am not going to completely repeat myself on my opinions, you can find them on page 4. I thought clearly the effects of donations, decided that although on the surface they seem like the solution, your inviting problems.

This is just the 1st thing that occured to me, i have posted this before:

Not everyone works alone, i myself tend to work with another guy called Registered_fugitiv, he makes the models and config, i do the texture end. Now if we were to get donations for our humble work, how would we divide it? half and half? But are my textures worth as much as his modelling and config work? Or is his worth more than my efforts? See, instant problem. Now scale that up to a big addon team where 5 people have had thier finger in a particular addons creation and your looking at a whole load of shit waiting to happen.

Worst possible outcome?

Teams split up over money disagreements.

People end up working alone, doing everything themselves, to avoid this. ->> drop in quality, increase in working time

Whatever the solution is, i do not honestly believe it involves Money. In any way shape or form.

[philcommando 0]

Thanks Pathy for giving your views clearly. It would help others to see your point whether they agree or dont agree or have ideas to help.

All i seek is a matured presentation of points. While it may not help in creating a solution to my question for the community, the point you raised will lend further thoughts as to the evils of money, either the lack of it or the division of it which lies in the hands of receivers.

Thanks for your post and i look forward to more addons from your team. All the best sincerly

[UNN 0]

Sorry to dissect your original post, but I'm at a loss to work out what prompted all this in the first place?

Quote[/b] ]My solution:-

1. Set up more trainning info freely for newbies to make addons. Knowledge should be free.

Who is going to do this, make freely available tutorials to encourage others to make money. BIS? The natural progression is, you would have to pay for the tutorial to? Information which once was freely shared now comes at a price.

Quote[/b] ]2. Allow donations, and not fees. Cut out any middleman. aint right to profit from someone's sweat

We already have this available, so why bring it up? Unless your looking for official approval from BIS?

Quote[/b] ]3. Addonmakers to set aside 10% as donation to BIS for 02 - only right, cos we gotta appreciate and reward 02 too.

Who is going to enforce this, BIS? I think they have better things to worry about. Simpler if BIS just charged a flat rate to buy O2, again what was free now comes at a price.

Quote[/b] ]4. Donations and distribution based solely on honour - a military sacred trust. - those that screw around, blacklist them.

Since when did market forces ever operate on honour? If someone wants something bad enough, and is willing to pay for it, someone will provide it. What would they care if others disapprove, as long as they get the cash. The honour system only works 100%, when honour is the only real tangible reward there is.

Quote[/b] ]5. Pay peanuts and you get monkeys. Let the market decide the amount of donation.

This can't be true? We pay nothing for addons now, I'm sure your not suggesting all addon makers that have gone before, don't even qualify as monkeys Best just to scrap that point.

Quote[/b] ]6. With funds, addonmaker will have the impetus to overcome more limits and create better addons - overleaping other game makers. At least donations will temporary solve some real life issues.

Unless your going to get enough money to pay for a family, home and holidays. This must exclude a proportion of people? How will giving someone $100 improve the quality of their work? Buying them a high powered PC or a team of consultants, giving them $40,000 might. But sporadic donations? This does not make sense, the work would be exactly the same, it might be completed slightly quicker. But that’s about it.

Again, I don't know from the above, what the problem is, you want to solve? You mention later on, that this would redress the decline if OFP's popularity? If the game is played less, four or five years after it's release. I doubt it's because there are not enough addons being made for it now.

Without a coherent argument for introducing an offical donation scheme for OFP, it's hardly surprising people just assume its all about personal gain. I'm not saying that’s your intention. But in the absence of any real argument, we are left with nothing but speculation.

If your intention is to nurture the OFP community, encourage people to cooperate. Not compete with each other for financial rewards (....donations).

[philcommando 0]

Thanks UNN sincerly for your input. Having read your post thoroughly a few times, rather in murder i dissect your assetion and speculations and put you on the offensive to rebutt which brings us ooff the topic, i will only point out 2 simple contridictions of your post.

1.

Quote[/b] ]Since when did market forces ever operate on honour?

2.

Quote[/b] ]This can't be true? We pay nothing for addons now

We can go on all day fighting on just the 2 points alone. One, you dont believe market forces operate in honour, two, yet in the same breathe you mention about the honour of addonmakers who bestowed addons freely to the market.

It is your right to dissect and speculate. While i never claim that i have the solutions to answers, i was looking forward to a your participation with possible solutions rather than a dissection of previous posters analysis. Wrong or right, it would still be a idea or a concept towards a solution, rather than to spend time defending our own analysis.

So what is your solution? Is it 'encourage others to cooperate?'. Without coherent arguments or specific thoughts from your presentation, should i or the reader speculate on the nature of 'cooperation'?

[DKM Jaguar 0]

What then is a post that is blinded by rage? This topic is a matured discussion on the issue to make attempts to not only address it, but to come out with creative SOLUTIONS, not for a display of childish angst or rage. i will not repeat what is the issue, for if one is not aware of it, it would mean one didnt follow nor read the thread all enough to think over it. And should one post without reading and understanding it, then it is a waste of the community's time to read his post as well as shows what kind of mentality that poster has with his one liner flame posts. It doesnt make one cool to look cynical, more like a childish fool only, i am sad to say, no matter how smart he think he is, old or young. Just look above my post and perhaps you may understand what i mean.

It comes across to me that you think people who do not beleive the idea is a good one are only posting to stir up some trouble.

While you may have said otherwise, I think this is the basics of it.

Personally I think the idea is not a good one, infact I think it is a terrible idea. That's not to say I hold any ill feeling toward the people who beleive it is a good idea, just becuase I don't agree does not make me right, and the same for them.

But it comes down to BIS and the legalities of accepting money in ANY form for addons. They simply wouldn't allow it. So perhaps to discuss something which can never be is fairly pointless....

I do think someone from BIS should have stepped in by now to clearly put it one way or the other.

Let's remember, those of us who are good enough to get paid for addons have already been hired by BIS, and you can count the addon makers taken from the community into BIS on one hand. For people to make the decision to freely hand over money when they don't need to is just not practical. I can't see how in any way the idea works.

It seems we are looking for a solution without having a problem... addon makers have and always will work for free and people have and always will download them, for free. Where is the need for change?

[UNN 0]

Quote[/b] ]It seems we are looking for a solution without having a problem

That about sums it up I was trying to understand what the problem was.

But for the record, for me:

Finacial dealings = Market Forces

A collection of people who like to play OFP and exchange info, addons and ideas = Community

[philcommando 0]

Thanks for your replies based honestly on your own individual perceptions. I hope most of the other addonmakers who had been giving us free addons on their own effort and time would not feel down that ' those who are good enough are already hired by BIS'.

If the subjective view of art and its yardstick of measurement'being good enough' means being able to open an addon ingame and have hours of fun with it, I think majority of the non-hired addonmakers are certainly 'good enough'. I personally believe that if BIS have the funds, majority of the addonmakers would be hired, (except crap addonmakers like me! crazy: )but no company in the world has such funds.  

Thanks to all, i mean not only addonmakers, but missionmakers as well as scripters and all loyal fans for the support you have shown. And thanks to BIS for allowing me the opportunity to openly and honestly seek views on this thread . No wonder ofp1 is the greatest game on earth, 4 years and no one can beat it.

[DKM Jaguar 0]

Thanks for your replies based honestly on your own individual perceptions. I hope most of the other addonmakers who had been giving us free addons on their own effort and time would not feel down that ' those who are good enough are already hired by BIS'.

It was not my intention to use that as some form of put-down, as I would be insulting myself if it had been. I am simply saying there is a point where you CAN expect money for the quality of your work, and if you stray below it, where do you draw the line?

You will soon enough have people creating cubes in O2 and demanding cash.

[philcommando 0]

lol!...thats a good one, Jag! if he can get funds for it, damn, school kids no longer needs to go hungry during lunch breaks!

[Pathy 0]

Thanks Pathy for giving your views clearly. It would help others to see your point whether they agree or dont agree or have ideas to help.

All i seek is a matured presentation of points. While it may not help in creating a solution to my question for the community, the point you raised will lend further thoughts as to the evils of money, either the lack of it or the division of it which lies in the hands of receivers.

Thanks for your post and i look forward to more addons from your team. All the best sincerly

No problem, thank you for taking my point at face value and considering it.

You won´t hear about our addons till they are a week off release, we like to suprise people But when you do, be sure to send your cheques to "The Pathfinder Bahamas Retirement Fund"

Only joking just on a personal note, money or no money i´d still make stuff for OFP, so....

[philcommando 0]

....so, we heard mainly from addonmakers, not much from the supporting fans, who matters the most. Silence speaks volumes.....

Will we see a ancient Spartan campaign dueling with samurais or a present day American - China war or a Halo type war on Mars dueling with tripodal machines in ofp?

Only the fellow member supporting fans can answer, for its them that addonmakers, missionmakers and scripters took the time and effort to create and share.

[harley 3 1185 0]

I'd say that the fellow supporting fans of OFP stayed clear of this thread for the reason already expressed; "Why search for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist?"

All games tend to lose their following after a while, as new and more advanced games are released, but the fact that there are so many players of OFP still around today, and so many dedicated enthusiasts who release add-ons, is indeed a credit to this community and to the game.

Their silence does speak volumes-it's the silence of those who like things the way they are and wouldn't want to change anything, and that goes for donations and the like.

Of course, you may freely call this post BS and I wouldn't mind, since I am a loyal fan who's been playing OFP since it first came out. But I think that there are a great many fans who believe as I do and would rather leave sleeping dogs lie...

[BennyBoy 0]

....so, we heard mainly from addonmakers, not much from the supporting fans, who matters the most. Silence speaks volumes.....

Will we see a ancient Spartan campaign dueling with samurais or a present day American - China war or a Halo type war on Mars dueling with tripodal machines in ofp?

Only the fellow member supporting fans can answer, for its them that addonmakers, missionmakers and scripters took the time and effort to create and share.

Actually I completely disagree with your point that addons are created for fans, I and plenty of people I know make them solely for their own enjoyment, anything else is a bonus.

Your post also insinuates that the views of addonmakers mean nothing compared to the views of the community, we are the community and thus our say is just as valid as someone who has never even had a sniff of O2.

[philcommando 0]

Knew for sure some guy will fall for the speak volumes thingy! But thanks anyway for your opinions. BS or not, its not for me to say, only the reader alone can determine.

However, do bear in mind that there are 31,000 registered more or less fair minded fans of ofp here who believes in fair play and are not myopic. When one uses the phrase

Quote[/b] ]

Their silence does speak volumes-it's the silence of those who like things the way they are and wouldn't want to change anything, and that goes for donations and the like.

Of course, you may freely call this post BS and I wouldn't mind, since I am a loyal fan who's been playing OFP since it first came out.  But I think that there are a great many fans who believe as I do  

does one presume to say he is representing the majority of them? Or is this is a means to MAKE USE of others to strengthen ones's personal view?

sorry to bring it up, but since i am the man who started this thread, i have to know for sure whether you are representing the majority or you are representing yourself personally. If its the majority, this wont need to drag on, but if it is just you, i would thank you for your views and let others who are fair minded and had enjoyed several addons of from some of the community's best addonmakers the freedom to comment. ( not mine...sigh..do i have to repeat its not about me each post?)

To Benny;

Thanks for your views. I do not understand where the

Quote[/b] ]Your post also insinuates that the views of addonmakers mean nothing compared to the views of the community, we are the community and thus our say is just as valid as someone who has never even had a sniff of O2.

Reading your post only goes to show that you had not been reading thru the previous several posts and choose to comment base on what you see now. Short-sighted or selective biased views perhaps? Wouldnt lend credence to your message though.

This is not some counter-strike forum, but a matured and sensible opinion seeking thread. Do take your time and understand the thread before posting and i look forward to your more matured postings in the near future.

[Moving Target 0]

how are we going to distribute it again? in the real world...

1 person buys it, gives it to friend free (or sells claiming it was his own). Friend gives to other friend free and so on. How are you going to prosecute them? Do lone addonmakers really have the financial backing to take to court the people who sell on or pass on addons?

[sanctuary 19]

The question was about paying for addons, using a selected word of donations/selling/etc.. is just a word choice, the subject is the same : someone give money to another one to get addons.

Quote[/b] ]However, do bear in mind that there are 31,000 registered more or less fair minded fans of ofp here who believes in fair play and are not myopic. When one uses the word 'we' does one presume to say he is representing the majority of them? Or is this is a means to MAKE USE of others to strengthen ones's personal view?

.

As far you can read, the answer is several variation of "no" coming from addons/missions/scripts/etc... makers that are a part of this community, but i agree certainly not all of them have took their time to answer your suggestion unlike people replying there did and that you mostly disregard with a selection of "polite" words while waiting for a "yes".

But, you can have an idea on the state of mind of the other addon makers that did not bother replying to this thread :from the OFP release up to today in the OFP community , addons have been delivered to the community the exact same way , without requesting or needing money.

That is showing that the reason they (all the people that has released something, without having to post there) created and released their work : because they enjoyed making it, they enjoyed sharing it and never needed money to deliver their creations.

Personnally i am old school when it comes to relations between people : when i give something to someone, a "thank you" is already enough.

When i give something to someone and instead he wants to give me money, i consider this as near to an insult.

Fortunately, that's how things work in the OFP community until now and there is no need to change that, unlike you are suggesting.

Quote[/b] ]...so, we heard mainly from addonmakers, not much from the supporting fans, who matters the most. Silence speaks volumes.....

Supporting fans do not matters most than addonmakers , they are all part of the community, no less no more, they have all the same right as having an opinion here while it is keep inside the forum rules

Quote[/b] ]

Will we see a ancient Spartan campaign dueling with samurais or a present day American - China war or a Halo type war on Mars dueling with tripodal machines in ofp?

Only the fellow member supporting fans can answer, for its them that addonmakers, missionmakers and scripters took the time and effort to create and share.

You will see those works because people want to create them, not because there will be several messages requesting those to be done.

Is there Star Wars addons because people requesting them, or is there Star Wars addons because there are people interested by the Star Wars univers making them ?

The answer is obviously the second.

I never heard of someone creating something he does not car e about. If there is a case, such user should be better doing something different of his time, passion can help to the quality of the work when you strongly want something to be done.

Overall, i hope you can see that suggesting to add money to the current "addons maker create addon and share it with people" subject was near to what is called a troll and that's why you can read so harsh replies to your suggestion.

[Moving Target 0]

The question was about paying for addons, using a selected word of donations/selling/etc.. is just a word choice, the subject is the same : someone give money to another one to get addons.

i know, but there is no way that people are going to pay for addons if they can get it free of some other nice person

[philcommando 0]

Err...thanks Moving Target for your post.

It seems we may be jumping the gun. I didnt mention that fans should pay for addons. i do not agree with it, but its only my opinion.

I am unable to answer your question. Sorry.

The question i seek is 'would you support addonmakers to create more addons for ofp' and to an extent showing it in more tangible ( able to see and feel) forms.

I hope you will take the time to go thru the thread to see each and everyone's opinions on how this question came about. Thanks.

[sanctuary 19]

The question was about paying for addons, using a selected word of donations/selling/etc.. is just a word choice, the subject is the same : someone give money to another one to get addons.

i know, but there is no way that people are going to pay for addons if they can get it free of some other nice person

It was not directed to you , i was writing my replies while your post was not there yet

[BennyBoy 0]

To Benny;

Thanks for your views. I do not understand where the

Quote[/b] ]Your post also insinuates that the views of addonmakers mean nothing compared to the views of the community, we are the community and thus our say is just as valid as someone who has never even had a sniff of O2.

Reading your post only goes to show that you had not been reading thru the previous several posts and choose to comment base on what you see now. Short-sighted or selective biased views perhaps? Wouldnt lend credence to your message though.

This is not some counter-strike forum, but a matured and sensible opinion seeking thread. Do take your time and understand the thread before posting and i look forward to your more matured postings in the near future.

Perhaps you should take a leaf out of your own post, here is what you posted:

Quote[/b] ]Only the fellow member supporting fans can answer, for its them that addonmakers, missionmakers and scripters took the time and effort to create and share.

Notice the word Only, hence my post.

Condescension really doesn't suit you.

[philcommando 0]

My dear Santuary,

So far it had been generally matured opinions elicted. The only ones that seemed 'troll' or 'harsh' sadly ....though i really have no wish to say it....comes from you.

Take it easy, do allow each to say his/her piece. As i mentioned, market forces will determine the direction where ofp will head, time will tell.

So far i only step in when they are not clear in their message, not to influence their opinions. May i say the same for you?

Peace.

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

Personally i dont think anyone should have to pay for addons created by anyone other than BIS.  I cant think of a way to control payment and distribution without locking the addon down to an indvidual user key just like VBS1, and i supsect if you tried there are members of this community that would be capable to cracking it. Either that or you'll find members of this community creating files on Emule/Edonkey etc begging or telling you how to crack them....(take a look and you'll see what i mean)

Speaking as someone who left the Flight Sim Community because people were reselling my models and making money of both mine and other peoples backs, should the same begin to happen in OFP then I would stop making addons.  I make stuff for my self and hopefully things that will be of interest to the community.  I do it for fun and for the occasionaly email i get thanking me for my effort.  If you want to get paid for it apply to BIS/BIA/CTCorp for a job.

However if you want donate to a Mod team toward thier bandwidth/hosting cost then that would be a nice token.

[DKM Jaguar 0]

Removed....

We must not have an opinion other than agreement.