The Middle East part 2

[Tex -USMC- 0]

I've noticed Fox News now refer to the suicide bombings as 'homicide bombings'. Is this just for the higher sensationalism value?

At one point the Bush Administration referred to suicide bombers as homicide bombers, and Fox News, like the good lapdogs they are, have been following suit ever since.

[EiZei 0]

So, are the suicide statistics going to be combined with homicide ones then?

[Gollum1 0]

I've noticed Fox News now refer to the suicide bombings as 'homicide bombings'.

Oh, give me a fucking break. Ok so I agree with the homicide part, but this is exactly what I would have expected from Fox News. "Fair and Balanced" my ass. ( )

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

Seems like a right wing version of liberal political correctness.

If a suicide bomber kills other in the blast then i cant see a massive problem in referring to it as a homocide bombing, though somewhat idiotically it does seem to suggest that what is noteworthy in the bomb is that it kills others (which seems to me anyway a rather predictable effect when detonating explosives in a public place) rather than that the bomber deliberatly blew themselves up in the blast (as though palestineans are in the habit of exploding themselves anyway). This seems to imply an emphasis on the Israeli casualties over the palestinean loss (and sacrifice) but i cant say this really disturbs me much when its Israeli civilians against a palestinean guy strapping himself to a bomb and blowing up those civilians. Id be more concerned with the reporting that accompanies this phrase.

[Bernadotte 0]

Suicide bombings is how Palestinian militants attack Israel.

Homicide bombings is how Israel attacks Palestinian militants.

[Bernadotte 0]

Quote[/b] ]Prediction:

The conflict will continue until the next US election.

If a democrat wins the conflict will continue.

If Bush Jr wins the conflict will end.

Bernadotte, im interested as to why you think a republican victory will bring peace rather than a democrat administration. The democrat Jewish vote? The need for democrats to be seen as supportive of Israel?

Surely Bush relies a lot on the votes of the fundamentalist christian right who would be dismayed to see Bush pushing Israel around or forcing compromise?

1.  The pro-Israel lobby group, AIPAC, usually hovers between 2nd and 4th most powerful lobby in Washington.  And AIPAC is only one of many pro-Israel lobbies.  No president hoping for a 2nd term in office will act against them.  A presidend already in his 2nd term, as Bush would be, won't care as much.

2. The so-called Jewish vote has traditionally voted for the Democrats for many other (good!) reasons having nothing to do with Israel.  The Jewish vote will not suddenly become republican if the Democrats choose to act against Sharon's government.

3.  The fundamentalist Christian right mainly wants to see the "Israelites" return to the Holy Land so that Christ will come back, in accordance with New Testament prophecy.  They agree with Bush that this will not happen until there is peace, which requires an independent Palestinian state.  Sharon's government is increasingly seen as an obstacle to this.

[Bernadotte 0]

Quote[/b] ]Israel is too strong to defeat and the Palestinians have no choice but to live with the Jewish state in peace.  Let us be frank. We cannot destroy Israel. The practical solution is for us to have a state alongside Israel.

-- Senior Hamas leader Abu Shanab

Do you really believe that quote?

Yes, I do.  Shanab went on to say that, eventually after establishing an independent state on 22% of their original homeland, the Palestinian people would have to decide whether to keep fighting for the other 78%.  He suspected that they would overwhelmingly prefer peace.

It's not as if Israel isn't willing to make painful concessions to the Palestinians. They've offered them to the Palestinians before, and are turned down each time.

Like this one?

They have even made generous concetions to Egypt and Jordan. The later wouldn't be half as big as it is now otherwise.

...Jordan, half as big?  How so?

I'm sure Arafat would love to sign those treaties. But, he knows that if he does Hamas would kill him. And if not them, then Islamic Jihad or someone else.

They weren't the ones who killed Abu Shanab for agreeing with a 2-state solution?

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

Thanks for the explanation Bernadotte, i see more clearly where you are coming from

Any word on how the new palestinean prime minister is getting on?

[bn880 5]

Good job Bernadotte, good to have someone willing to stick up all those pieces of information and analysis for other members. I would not have the patience of course.

[Major Fubar 0]

AFAIK, the term "suicide bombers" is used simply to indicate that the bomber intentionally perished in the blast. To differentiate it, say, from a bombing where a van is parked, the bomber escapes, and then the bomb is detonated.

[bn880 5]

And also to seperate the bombings where the guy is in a boat pressing buttons to fire a crusie missile, or a planes crewman dropping a bomb. Same shit, different equipment I mean.

[Crazysheep 1]

Quote[/b] ]Israel is too strong to defeat and the Palestinians have no choice but to live with the Jewish state in peace.  Let us be frank. We cannot destroy Israel. The practical solution is for us to have a state alongside Israel.

-- Senior Hamas leader Abu Shanab

Do you really believe that quote?

Yes, I do.  Shanab went on to say that, eventually after establishing an independent state on 22% of their original homeland, the Palestinian people would have to decide whether to keep fighting for the other 78%.  He suspected that they would overwhelmingly prefer peace.

It's not as if Israel isn't willing to make painful concessions to the Palestinians. They've offered them to the Palestinians before, and are turned down each time.

Like this one?

They have even made generous concetions to Egypt and Jordan. The later wouldn't be half as big as it is now otherwise.

...Jordan, half as big?  How so?

I'm sure Arafat would love to sign those treaties. But, he knows that if he does Hamas would kill him. And if not them, then Islamic Jihad or someone else.

They weren't the ones who killed Abu Shanab for agreeing with a 2-state solution?

Heh, thanks. I've actually been relaying an argument with someone else on another forum, beause I don't really know enough about the situation myself. Thanks.

[toadeater 0]

Seems like a right wing version of liberal political correctness.

I'm still trying to figure out the difference between fundamentalist Islamic "freedom fighters" and fundamentalist Islamic "terrorists". I guess it depends on who they're murdering.

[brgnorway 0]

Now this is not good! There is no doubt the "Road to peace" could be described as a "road to nowhere" - but this definately serves as an obstacle. Whatever happened to Colin Powells hesitance towards the Israeli government's desicion to (might) kill or exile Arafat?

US - doing a wolfowitzlike trick again!

[Bernadotte 0]

Is this John Negroponte pledging allegiance to Ariel Sharon?  Well, it's pretty close.

It's the US ambassador to the UN single-handedly vetoing a resolution which demanded that Israel stop threatening to deport Arafat.

Iraq had fewer than 20 resolutions against it.  Israel has over 100 against it.  And more than 30 of those were vetoed by the US.  Most Americans have no idea that the US does this.  In fact it's quite possible that, of those who died on 11 Sept 2001, the only ones who knew were the hijackers.

I guess it's all a part of living (and dying) in the American dreamland.  

[bn880 5]

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media...._ap.jpg

Is this John Negroponte pledging allegiance to Ariel Sharon? Well, it's pretty close.

It's the US ambassador to the UN single-handedly vetoing a resolution which demanded that Israel stop threatening to deport Arafat.

Iraq had fewer than 20 resolutions against it. Israel has over 100 against it. And more than 30 of those were vetoed by the US. Most Americans have no idea that the US does this. In fact it's quite possible that, of those who died on 11 Sept 2001, the only ones who knew were the hijackers.

I guess it's all a part of living (and dying) in the American dreamland.

Exactly, time for Americans to start fresh with a new government, this is ridiculous. But who cares right. Friends in high places, not by accident. Reminds me of something that happened on the forums.

[Crazysheep 1]

Interesting article on Israel-US-India working together

[Ram TN 0]

I don't see why some of you accuse America of being too pro-Israeli. Of course it is! The US if pro-Israeli since the French have abandoned Israel, after the 1967 war (also known as the Six Days War). So what if America supports Israel? May I remind you, that the Jews - who didn't have a country for almost 2000 years - has only one small country, while the Muslims has 22 countries. And not only that, but the Muslims also have one of the world's most powerful assests: oil. Oil has been used to make diplomatic decisions for a long time. So 6-million people Israel has the support of America, so what? 1 billion Muslims have the support of Europe.

[EiZei 0]

I don't see why some of you accuse America of being too pro-Israeli. Of course it is! The US if pro-Israeli since the French have abandoned Israel, after the 1967 war (also known as the Six Days War). So what if America supports Israel? May I remind you, that the Jews - who didn't have a country for almost 2000 years - has only one small country, while the Muslims has 22 countries. And not only that, but the Muslims also have one of the world's most powerful assests: oil. Oil has been used to make diplomatic decisions for a long time. So 6-million people Israel has the support of America, so what? 1 billion Muslims have the support of Europe.

Count all the christian countries..

And since when EU was really allied with muslim countries?

[ran 0]

The US if pro-Israeli since the French have abandoned Israel, after the 1967 war (also known as the Six Days War). So what if America supports Israel?

we hate being implicated in long lasting conflicts , that's all

back in that time , in the middle of the coldwar , we wanted to spend our assets on something a bit more usefull like territory defence and arms programs

i personnaly think it would have been wise to keep some arms trade going , so right now we would have a larger prospection market for the GIAT , Dassault and all the others

[Bernadotte 0]

May I remind you, that the Jews - who didn't have a country for almost 2000 years - has only one small country, while the Muslims has 22 countries.

Did you know that 0.2% of the world's population is Jewish and that less than 1/3 live in Israel?  And, if 0.2% entitles a religion to have its own country then Hindus should have 65 countries, Muslims should have 100 countries and Christians should have 180 countries.

[Bernadotte 0]

General Assembly demands Israel not deport Arafat

The resolution passed with 133 votes in favour and 4 against (US, Israel, Micronesia and the Marshall Islands).  But unlike Security Council resolutions like the one vetoed earlier in the week by the US, General Assembly decisions have no legally binding force.

[brgnorway 0]

I don't see why some of you accuse America of being too pro-Israeli. Of course it is! The US if pro-Israeli since the French have abandoned Israel, after the 1967 war (also known as the Six Days War). So what if America supports Israel? May I remind you, that the Jews - who didn't have a country for almost 2000 years - has only one small country, while the Muslims has 22 countries. And not only that, but the Muslims also have one of the world's most powerful assests: oil. Oil has been used to make diplomatic decisions for a long time. So 6-million people Israel has the support of America, so what? 1 billion Muslims have the support of Europe.

LOL - the best part of your post is that you refer to the middle eastern region (except Israel of course) as if it was a single muslim nation/country.

I don't try to make you look like an ass, but keep in mind that the middle eastern nations are as different and diverse, politically and culturally as any other region.

[walker 0]

Hi all

Just spoted

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3137392.stm

When it comes down to it refusing immoral orders is what seperates true soldiers from war criminals.

Kind Regards walker

[Crazysheep 1]

Surely this should be in the middle east thread?