The Middle East part 2

[Nemesis6 0]

polls like that are just an excuse for right wingers to blow up more civilians and bulldoze houses,imo.

And I suppose you would say the same about polls conducted by the Palestinians on the same issue, right? I posted one. I'll probably dig it up tomorrow, but as for right now, you're correct. When we see a poll like that, we, the right wingers, almost frown at the prospect of how many of our actions it can justify. Some even report sexual arousal. You know what makes us angry? When the U.N condemn the actions of America and Israel, because their opinion is so important to us right-wingers because they have the power to stop genocide as they did in Sudan. Oh wait, they didn't. They were busy condemning Israel and America. But that hurt our feelings because their opinion matters to us.

[mp_phonix 0]

Hundreds of Palestinian 'suspects' have been kidnapped from their homes and will never stand trial

Oh now we are not allowed to fight terror ? ok I'm very sorry.

[Bernadotte 0]

and do you think if there was a poll about palestinian kidnappings ,israeli citizens would condemn them in the prsent climate ?

They probably would.  Therefore, the Israelis have to change the word from kidnap to detain so that a majority of Israeli citizens can support it.  Afterall, the Israeli troops can't be on record as having kidnapped one third of the Palestinian cabinet and nearly two dozen Palestinian lawmakers, 11 days ago.

There's always a different word for such things when they are carried out by governments instead of terrorists.  Perhaps if the terrorists started apologising after every bombing then they would be able to get away with killing as many civilians as the IDF has.

[mp_phonix 0]

"la la"

we didn't kidnhaped cabinet members. we arrested them because they are members of a terrorist organization.

[Donnervogel 0]

"la la"

we didn't kidnhaped cabinet members. we arrested them because they are members of a terrorist organization.

By that logic the Palestinians could claim they arrested the israeli Soldier for being member of a foreign occupying army and get away with it.

[mp_phonix 0]

"la la"

we didn't kidnhaped cabinet members. we arrested them because they are members of a terrorist organization.

By that logic the Palestinians could claim they arrested the israeli Soldier for being member of a foreign occupying army and get away with it.

whatever. you ppl don't understand nothing

[Bernadotte 0]

"la la"

we didn't kidnhaped cabinet members. we arrested them because they are members of a terrorist organization.

Really?  Then why haven't they been charged?

Quote[/b] ]Some 65 officials from Hamas' political wing were arrested in the West Bank and East Jerusalem last week. Among those detained are eight Hamas ministers and 20 parliament members, as well as the mayor of Qalqilyah.

Additional remand extensions are expected Thursday.

And why didn't you "detain" them before the kidnapping of the Israeli corporal?  You honestly believe that your government just suddenly happened to discover the locations of all 65 fugitives. Certainly they knew how to find the mayor of Qalqilyah, given that you've already built a wall around his entire city.  

whatever. you ppl don't understand nothing

Oh, but maybe if you answer our questions then we will understand.

And if you are unable to answer them then perhaps it is you who doesn't understand.

[mp_phonix 0]

Oh i'm able,

just when I'm answering you you all give me some kind of "counter arrgument".

You like "complaining" that we arrested HAMAS members. What, it's wrong to arrest terrorists

Of course it's ok when USA do it and dump them in that prison in guatamal or smt and don't press charges, but if we do it we are "opressors" & "occupaing army".

If we occupy them, how come they have their own security & police, and their own govermnment that we do not control ?

We left Gaza and gave it to them, what did they do ? Increase the launcihng of the quasam to 200+ rockets a month.

The operation that was in northend Gaza - They had it coming.

I don't know if charges has been pressed yet, but Israel governmet can hold a suspect for terrorism/terrorist a certain amount of time before pressing charges {it is not international law, inner one.}

Israeli knew where they are before we arrested them. and truly, we needed a cause to arrest them. The attack on the outpost & kidnhaping - Thers your rightfull reason to arrest them because they are member of the organization that carried out the attack.

[Bernadotte 0]

You like "complaining" that we arrested HAMAS members. What, it's wrong to arrest terrorists

No dude, I complained that you didn't arrest them earlier than 29 June.  And I complained that you haven't even charged them now that you have arrested them.

Did you arrest those terrorists when they were campaigning as Hamas reps in the elections?  No.

Did you arrest those terrorists when they got elected?  No?

Did you charge them with being members of a terrorist organisation?  No?

It sounds more like you <s>kidnapped</s> detained a bunch of Palestinian politicians than arrested terrorsts.

[Donnervogel 0]

You like "complaining" that we arrested HAMAS members. What, it's wrong to arrest terrorists

nothing, but then again why you complain when they "arrest" members of your army? What is wrong in arresting people that belong to organisations that steal your land and bulldoze your houses?

Quote[/b] ]Of course it's ok when USA do it and dump them in that prison in guatamal or smt and don't press charges, but if we do it we are "opressors" & "occupaing army".

No but this isn't the USA politics thread or the Iraq thread so I don't complain about Guantanamo and Abu Graib and such in here

Quote[/b] ]If we occupy them, how come they have their own security & police, and their own govermnment that we do not control ?

Well their police obviously doesn't have access to the places occupied by Israel. I didn't say Israel is occuping all of the land not belonging to it. Just parts. You can consult the map posted by Bernadotte for some further information.

And you do infact control about 1/3 of their government right now. Already forgot you arrested them?

Quote[/b] ]Israeli knew where they are before we arrested them. and truly, we needed a cause to arrest them. The attack on the outpost & kidnhaping - Thers your rightfull reason to arrest them because they are member of the organization that carried out the attack.

oh there are two issues about your "rightful" reason. Firstly if it was a rightful reason those people would have been charged with it already. They are not charged and I suspect it might have something to do with the fact that the Israelis have a hard time comming up with a believeable explenation how all those people are directly involved in carring out said attack/kidnapping. The secound issue is that Israel violated the sovereignty of the Plaestinian Authority by arresting about 1/3 of their democratically elected government. You can do such stunts in your interior if your law allows it but if you arrest a different government from yours it is infact a crime as it is an influence into their internal affairs and such are ususally forbidden by their statutes. The correct way to get this done "rightful" would have been to issue an official protest and demand the transfer of said alledged persons into your custody for a trial. Of course for such you'd have to come up with charges first so it's kind of complicated to even get started with it.

[mp_phonix 0]

And That's exactly why I say you don't know anything.

Thinking you know better then a person actually living in this country because you read some news at BBC or CNN. It is useless to try talking sense into you, because you don;t want to listen.

This will be my last reply in this thread.

peace-out !

[Bernadotte 0]

This will be my last reply in this thread.

peace-out !  

And while you're gone I hope you learn to use quotes. That way we might actually get to see the questions you say you are trying to answer and the news sources you claim to be following.

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

And That's exactly why I say you don't know anything.

Thinking you know better then a person actually living in this country because you read some news at BBC or CNN. It is useless to try talking sense into you, because you don;t want to listen.

This will be my last reply in this thread.

peace-out !

Dude, you haven't really come with anything that states otherwise...

I guess the following is the most used phrase in Israel during arguments:

Quote[/b] ]It is useless to try talking sense into you, because you don't want to listen.

This will be my last statement concerning this issue.

Sad, isn't it?

[Rg 0]

And That's exactly why I say you don't know anything.

Thinking you know better then a person actually living in this country because you read some news at BBC or CNN. It is useless to try talking sense into you, because you don;t want to listen.

This will be my last reply in this thread.

peace-out !

No offence, but your 16. The healthiest thing you could do is to not consider everything you have been taught/told/learned as 100% truth and really open up the door and consider other view points. The older you get the more likely you are to not want to change your mind on certain issues. You really should consider what has been discussed in this thread and look at other information around you before you shut the door on these issues.

[Garcia 0]

And That's exactly why I say you don't know anything.

Thinking you know better then a person actually living in this country because you read some news at BBC or CNN. It is useless to try talking sense into you, because you don;t want to listen.

This will be my last reply in this thread.

peace-out !  

So sad that people actually comes with arguments and facts that show that your "arguments" don't hold. If you really think You can just say that Israel is right in this, and that everyone else is gonna agree with you, even though you don't got shit to back up your arguments for why Israel is right, then you're living in a fantasy world. And actually, it seems people here know more than you, even though you live in Israel. You seem to think all your saying is true, even though you got no facts to back it up with, and therefor you come with BS "arguments" that people argumenting against you get their information from only BBC and CNN, and that this information is BS because BBC and CNN is full of shit...

[deanosbeano 0]

nemesis6

Quote[/b] ]And I suppose you would say the same about polls conducted by the Palestinians on the same issue, right?

thats your problem you suppose to much.

[Nemesis6 0]

I guess I do. Here's a link to a statistic conducted by Dr. Khalid Shikaki - http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=10413

Summery - Majority of Palestinians support terrorism.

[EiZei 0]

Is the methodology (sampling, questions used etc.) used in that 3-year-old poll described in detail somewhere?

[Bernadotte 0]

I guess I do. Here's a link to a statistic conducted by Dr. Khalid Shikaki - http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=10413

Summery - Majority of Palestinians support terrorism.

Firstly, the word "terrorism" doesn't even appear in that article.

Secondly, the article's title - Palestinians Support Suicide Bombing - is misleading.  It could mean that they support suicide attacks in general or it could be about a single specific attack.

Thirdly, in this case survey question indeed appears to be about a single specific attack:  "75% support the suicide attack at Maxim Restaurant in Haifa leading to the death of 20 Israelis."  Given the attack's widely known history, particularly that it was a young woman avenging the killings of her brother and cousin by the IDF, I'm actually surprised that as many as 25% objected to it.

Fourthly, the survey question was asked almost immediately after that attack while Israel was engaged in full scale retaliation mode.

I don't doubt that a majority of Palestinians can still be found who support terrorist attacks.  However, the results generally fluctuate rapidly and wildly between 20% and 70% and usually depend on how many Palestinian civilian deaths Israel has been apologising for in recent days.

Btw, Nemesis6, I would really appreciate your opinion of this article by an Israeli journalist describing what lead up to the suicide bombing at Maxim's.

[deanosbeano 0]

I guess I do. Here's a link to a statistic conducted by Dr. Khalid Shikaki - http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=10413

Summery - Majority of Palestinians support terrorism.

well i cant possibly comment on something you have misquoted and is at least 3 years old,can i.? well except for the fact that your poll begins

Quote[/b] ]With Yasser Arafat's popularity reaching its highest level in five years.

.

at which point it becomes flawed in the present day,cause arafats dead.it would be interesting to see a more upto date poll and see if things are worse now or became slightly more optmistic.

[Messiah 2]

From the BBC

Quote[/b] ]

Hezbollah seizes Israel soldiers

The Lebanese Shia militant group Hezbollah has captured two Israeli soldiers during clashes across the Lebanese-Israeli border. There has been heavy fighting in the area with Hezbollah firing dozens of rockets and Israel responding with tank and artillery fire, and air strikes.

Aircraft struck roads, bridges and guerrilla posts, Lebanese sources say, and there are reports of casualties. Israel's PM said anyone trying to test its resolve would "pay a heavy price". Israel says it is holding the Lebanese government responsible for the fate of the two soldiers, and demands immediate action.

Israeli ground troops have entered southern Lebanon to search for the two soldiers, local media report. This operation has taken place as a kind of materialisation to the promise that Hezbollah has kept to the Lebanese Hezbollah TV news editor

The news comes as a major Israeli offensive is under way in the Gaza Strip. An Israeli soldier was kidnapped by Palestinian militants in Israel over two weeks ago. Overnight, Israel carried out an air strike on a Gaza City house, killing at least six people and injuring 15.

Hezbollah launched dozens of Katyusha rockets and mortar bombs at the Israeli town of Shlomi and at Israeli outposts in the disputed Shebaa Farms area. At least four Israelis were wounded in the clashes, reports say. Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has called a special cabinet session later on Wednesday.

Announcement of the soldiers' capture was made on Hezbollah's television channel, al-Manar. It did not give many details about the capture operation, but the news anchor said more information would be released later. The group says it has captured the soldiers to secure the release of detainees held in Israeli prisons.

"This operation has taken place as a kind of materialisation to the promise that Hezbollah has kept to the Lebanese, that they are going to do everything possible to make the swap," the chief news editor of Hezbollah Television, Ibrahim Moussawi, told the BBC's World TV.

"[That is] because Israelis still occupy parts of Lebanon, and still hold hostages in their prisons. Some of them have been there more than 25 years."

Hezbollah captured three Israeli soldiers in 2000 - they died during the operation, but their bodies were later exchanged for prisoners.

So another terrorist organisation has captured israeli soldiers... will Israel declare waron Lebanon in an effort to get their men back...

[mp_phonix 0]

yes and now we gonna bomb the shit out of them, the world will cry "hooooo Israel are civillian killers" and whole cycle starts again. nothing new.

In my opnion - burn Gaza, Artilary them to death, bomb them, screw them, the go to Lebanon and bomb the whole southern sector.

some of you say if you kill civillians more terrorist will rise. WTF ?

WE retreated from Lebanon in 2000, from Gaza in 2005,l and they pull this off. So what ? fuck em, lets just burn them now and be done with it. Israel takes notice of what the world say to much.

[Messiah 2]

If the cap fits...

Quote[/b] ]I'm getting sick of this . .

Then stop posting here... which I think you already said you would. Trust me, its of no loss...

[Bernadotte 0]

In my opnion - burn Gaza...

All you need is a few crematoria to complete the picture.

whole cycle starts again.

Exactly.  

...Israel takes notice of what the world say to much.

Oh really??  Like when??  

But before you get banned (or edit your post), here's an interesting tale I've just read.

When more and more anti-Arab graffiti was showing up in East Jerusalem the locals complained to the authorities.  Unfortunately, the authorities merely claimed that efforts to remove the graffiti were useless because it would reappear just as quickly.  So the locals found their own solution.  They discovered that simply spraying a swastika over the racist graffiti guaranteed its rapid removal and the walls stayed clean, thereafter.

[mp_phonix 0]

You actually comparing Genecide to military operation ? damn !

edit

How exactlly did I broke forum rules ? I didn;t falme forum members