Jump to content

Sign in to follow this  
Warin

The Middle East part 2

Recommended Posts

  (PAPABEAR_1985 @ Dec. 01 2003,16:44) said:
i feel that thies area will cause abig proplems in the future specialy that israel want more areas to rule because they thinke that their israel is from iraq to the nile and i feel that they will cause another unindlees flashpoint in that area and idont thinke thay need it the bothe sides love blood moore than wine and untill they change that the will have peace

I don't think that Israel has any interests to start conquering the Middle East. rock.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  (PAPABEAR_1985 @ Dec. 01 2003,16:44) said:
i feel that thies area will cause abig proplems in the future specialy that israel want more areas to rule because they thinke that their israel is from iraq to the nile

I think ignorance is bliss.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  (theavonlady @ Dec. 01 2003,16:48) said:
  (PAPABEAR_1985 @ Dec. 01 2003,16:44) said:
i feel that thies area will cause abig proplems in the future specialy that israel want more areas to rule because they thinke that their israel is from iraq to the nile

I think ignorance is bliss.

Looking at your forum member profile, it's not ignorance, it's good ol' Arab propaganda:

Location: Jerusaelm\Cillwan

This member's real name: Hatem Duwaik

edit: A neighbor of yours, in Silwan, no doubt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  (theavonlady @ Dec. 01 2003,14:51) said:
  (theavonlady @ Dec. 01 2003,16:48) said:
  (PAPABEAR_1985 @ Dec. 01 2003,16:44) said:
i feel that thies area will cause abig proplems in the future specialy that israel want more areas to rule because they thinke that their israel is from iraq to the nile

I think ignorance is bliss.

Looking at your forum member profile, it's not ignorance, it's good ol' Arab propaganda:

Location: Jerusaelm\Cillwan

This member's real name: Hatem Duwaik

edit: A neighbor of yours, in Silwan, no doubt.

By that same logic, we could accuse you of spouting Israeli propoganda at us.

I hope he really is from Jerusalem, it would be nice to hear from the other side for a change.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  (Badgerboy @ Dec. 01 2003,17:49) said:
By that same logic, we could accuse you of spouting Israeli propoganda at us.

Logic? There are truth and there are falsehoods. Believe in what you want.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Of course there is logic! Normal logic is based on true and false conditions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  (bn880 @ Dec. 01 2003,18:11) said:
Of course there is logic!  Normal logic is based on true and false conditions.

My point being some issues are not propaganda - just statement of fact.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  (WhoCares @ Dec. 01 2003,18:48) said:
Truth ain't always that simple as you can see in my signature  blues.gif

Absolutely! Neils Bohr was anything but! wink_o.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem with determining a condition is what questions you are asking. Ask the wrong question and you can't determine truth/fact.

For example: in November several Spanish men were murdered in Iraq

problems: #1. were they men, or females as well? better use people if not sure

#2. murdered (an entire study of human history can be done to detrermine this), better use 'killed'

tounge_o.gif

ah and: we still do not honestly know it is truth without witnessing the events

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  (WhoCares @ Dec. 01 2003,18:48) said:
Truth ain't always that simple as you can see in my signature  blues.gif

Getting OT just a bit but there's a great sig waiting for someone to adopt right over here. biggrin_o.gif

  [b said:
Quote[/b] ]Rumsfeld Ramble Wins 'Foot in Mouth' Award

Mon Dec 1, 9:09 AM ET

LONDON (Reuters) - Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's curious statement at a press briefing was named on Monday as the year's most baffling comment by a public figure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why do most people believe that america is bad for supporting Israel? why do you guys think israel is the bad boy around there?? hmmm? Did you know that in the six day war israel took the Gaza and West bank from Eygpt and Jordan??? They took it so that they could establish defensive positions and shit. Did you guys know that blockades and shit are in place because of the suicide bombings. They are there to protect the israeli people from the terrorism. Did you also know that most of the Israeli people, 75 % want to give land to the Palestinians but the problem is that the Palestinians fear each other and don't always see eye to eye, so there for if I go and make peace and say this and that, then I could be killed for being a traitor. Didn't you see that it happened in Geneva recently, the Palestinian people called there rep's traitors for negotiatiing with the israelis. Not to mention the things the Palestinians continue to say and demand non-stop, which is land land land and more land, not even thinking about hte Israeli's living there. If the Palestinians don't make exceptions, the israeli's can't make total peace unless the Palestinians talk reasonably

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  (bmgarcangel @ Dec. 01 2003,21:29) said:
Why do most people believe that america is bad for supporting Israel? why do you guys think israel is the bad boy around there??  hmmm?  Did you know that in the six day war israel took the Gaza and West bank from Eygpt and Jordan???  They took it so that they could establish defensive positions

No we didn't. We took it because Egypt declared their intent to anihilate Israel and drive the Jews into the sea. Jordan could've stayed out of the conflict. Israel begged King Hussien not to but................

I'm sorry we won. sad_o.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  (bmgarcangel @ Nov. 27 2003,04:15) said:
So many things happened there and frankly to believe events that have happened over the past 200 or 1000 years is kind of stubborn.  Seriously, u going to take a claim on I owned this land for 300 or 500 years based on modern records compared to the Israeli's living in the land of Israel before the Palestinians were even about.  They lived there way back before 2000 BC in case u don't know.  The Palestinians came from them.  And plus that land is called Palestine.  When the Jews were kicked out during the late part of the 1000 years after christ the Palestinians, Islams and Muslims, moved in and claimed the land as theres because they believe fucking Mohummad ascended into heaven from Israel. Frankly he died way way's away from there.

Let me enlighten you in response to this post you made a couple of pages ago. Bernadotte replied to most of it but I think I'll attempt to educate you on the Islamic aspect...

There is no such thing as "Islams". If there were, you wouldn't be saying it anyway, because Muslims are muslims, and Islam is Islam. A muslim is a follower of Islam. Islam is a religion. A follower is therefore Islamic and a muslim.

Palestinians are 'supposedly' muslims that are citizens of a country called Palestine. Secondly, the Jews immigrated to neighbouring lands and other parts of the world round about a thousand years ago. They surely did not get 'kicked out'.

Round about 600AD, the muslims saw a new land and decided to settle there and later declared it 'theirs'.

Palestine was holy to Muslims because the Prophet Muhammad had designated Jerusalem as the first qibla (the direction Muslims face when praying) and because he was believed to have ascended on a night journey to heaven from the the old city of Jerusalem (al-Aqsa Mosque today) , where the Dome of the Rock was later built. Jerusalem became the third holiest city of Islam. The Muslim rulers did not force their religion on the Palestinian inhabitants that were living their before, and more than a century passed before the majority converted to Islam. The remaining Christians and Jews were considered People of the Book. They were allowed autonomous control in their communities and guaranteed security and freedom of worship. Such tolerance was rare in the history of other religions. Most Palestinians also adopted Arabic and Islamic culture.

So, the Muslims did not believe that the land was rightfuly theirs because "fucking" Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) ascended into heaven through a night journey in Jerusalem. He died just like any other human. I strongly believe that Palestine or Israel or whatever the damn area is supposed to be called belongs to the muslim inhabitants. The majority of the Jews went away to other lands, the muslims moved in, and now they want it back? "Don't be fucking stupid", I'll say. You might aswell give back America to the native red indians. rock.gif

Next time, if you want to comment on an Islamic aspect, I suggest you don't curse an important figure in one's religion and get your facts straights.

Thanks very much, kafur. smile_o.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  (theavonlady @ Dec. 01 2003,15:48) said:
  (PAPABEAR_1985 @ Dec. 01 2003,16:44) said:
i feel that thies area will cause abig proplems in the future specialy that israel want more areas to rule because they thinke that their israel is from iraq to the nile

I think ignorance is bliss.

Sorry, but there's nothing blissful about your ignorance.  Perhaps it is you who should catch up on history a bit.  In fact, I'll even use one of your favourite sources to show you where PAPABEAR's "propaganda" originates.

Remember 12 years ago when Israel's PM was Yitzhak Shamir?

  [b said:
Quote[/b] ]Shamir served as Lechi's principal director of operations until 1946 when he was detained again by the British and exiled to a British­run prison camp in Eritrea.  Upon his return to Israel, he resumed command of the Lechi until it disbanded in 1949.

And what were the main goals of Shamir's Lechi?

  [b said:
Quote[/b] ]Lehi's goals were maximalist: conquest and liberation of Eretz Israel; war against the British Empire; complete withdrawal of Britain from Palestine; and establishment of a "Hebrew kingdom from the Euphrates to the Nile."

Shamir's goals may no longer be shared by Israel's leaders, however I can certainly forgive PAPABEAR for believing that some Israelis would still harbour such ambitions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  (theavonlady @ Dec. 01 2003,20:36) said:
I'm sorry we won. sad_o.gif

I'm sorry, but you did not win.  sad_o.gif

Winning is when you defeat the opponent(s), redraw your border around the captured territory and integrate the inhabitants into your own population, like you did in 1948.  I can't see how you can claim victory for 1967 when the 3.5 million people you captured are not a day closer to being integrated into Israel's population than they were 36 years ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  (Bernadotte @ Oct. 14 2003,03:26) said:
Interesting news:  Get ready for the Geneva Accords.    smile_o.gif

Did anyone notice that, today, the symbolic Geneva Initiative was signed?  This may have been a very historic day, but we just don't know it yet.

  [b said:
Quote[/b] ]"It is unlikely that we shall ever see a better foundation for peace," said Jimmy Carter, after receiving a standing ovation from a packed Geneva conference hall. "The people support it. Political leaders are the obstacle to peace."

...the Geneva plan has been welcomed by U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell, U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan and leaders of the European Union.  Fifty-eight former presidents, prime ministers, foreign ministers and other global leaders also released a statement Monday expressing "strong support" for the accord.

Ariel Sharon says the plan is subversive, insisting that only governments may conduct such negotiations.

-- SF Chronicle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Originally posted by bn880

  [b said:
Quote[/b] ]ah and: we still do not honestly know it is truth without witnessing the events

You hit the key problem of internet political discussion here. sad_o.gif

Even if you add a reference link to an on-article ,it's eather socialist ,ultra-conservative ,liberal and surely biased.

But then bias is really almost omni-present.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  (theavonlady @ Dec. 01 2003,20:36) said:
  (bmgarcangel @ Dec. 01 2003,21:29) said:
Why do most people believe that america is bad for supporting Israel? why do you guys think israel is the bad boy around there??  hmmm?  Did you know that in the six day war israel took the Gaza and West bank from Eygpt and Jordan???  They took it so that they could establish defensive positions

No we didn't. We took it because Egypt declared their intent to anihilate Israel and drive the Jews into the sea. Jordan could've stayed out of the conflict. Israel begged King Hussien not to but................

I'm sorry we won. sad_o.gif

I was actually trying to support you guys, the Israelis want peace with them.  The problem is that the Palestinians want it all and thats what disrupts most of peace negotiatons with there ill intent.  The israeli's will not and I hope won't pull out of places like West bank and Gaza strip till peace is assured.  The Palestinians have to deal wit that, but they don't, so they say do this and that, but the israeli's should see the Palestinians do more of there share of the job first. like arresting Terrorists.  Palestinians authority needs to do there job.

Other problem is, most of the members of the Palestinian authority are Hamas and other extremeist organization members.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  (bmgarcangel @ Dec. 02 2003,08:53) said:
  (theavonlady @ Dec. 01 2003,20:36) said:
  (bmgarcangel @ Dec. 01 2003,21:29) said:
Why do most people believe that america is bad for supporting Israel? why do you guys think israel is the bad boy around there??  hmmm?  Did you know that in the six day war israel took the Gaza and West bank from Eygpt and Jordan???  They took it so that they could establish defensive positions

No we didn't. We took it because Egypt declared their intent to anihilate Israel and drive the Jews into the sea. Jordan could've stayed out of the conflict. Israel begged King Hussien not to but................

I'm sorry we won. sad_o.gif

I was actually trying to support you guys

Thank you, yes, I understood that. But your statement that the war was to establish defensive positions is incorrect or at least innaccurate. Rather, establishing those defensive positions was a result of the war.

We didn't go into a war to grab a chunk of land to establish better defensive positions. That sound like Israel would have done it even if the Arabs hadn't mobilized even a single soldier or tank along Israel's borders.

  [b said:
Quote[/b] ], the Israelis want peace with them.  The problem is that the Palestinians want it all and thats what disrupts most of peace negotiatons with there ill intent.  The israeli's will not and I hope won't pull out of places like West bank and Gaza strip till peace is assured.

I hope we never pull out of Judea and Samaria.

  [b said:
Quote[/b] ]but the israeli's should see the Palestinians do more of there share of the job first. like arresting Terrorists.  Palestinians authority needs to do there job.

This will not occur, as the PA would have to arrest themselves.

  [b said:
Quote[/b] ]Other problem is, most of the members of the Palestinian authority are Hamas and other extremeist organization members.

Don't know about members but supporters, sympathizers and collaberators for sure.

The term we - excuse me - many of us use for the PA is a "terrorist entity".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  (bmgarcangel @ Dec. 01 2003,21:29) said:
Why do most people believe that america is bad for supporting Israel? why do you guys think israel is the bad boy around there??  hmmm?

small_women.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another thing that must be mentioned is that the Palestinian-Israeli conflict has deep effect on the international politics level.It has been argued many times that much of the hate of muslim's towards the U.S originates from sentiments on this conflict.So much that it arguably creates terrorism.In this sense this is not just a palestinian-Israeli matter ,but really an international problem that must be resolved by outsider country's since it's clear that Palestinian's and Israeli just don't manage to settle peace on their own.

My country ,Belgium ,has one of the largest Jewish and Palestinian community's in Europe.Due to the tension's in Insreal/Palestine ,these 2 minority's more and more are becoming violent towards eachother on European soil.It wouldn't be the first time that some sinahoge is bombed around here ,and France has that problem to.It creates social unrest around here ,and rest assure my country doesn't like that.Sure it's mostly Palestinian's aggitating on Jews ,though the jews arnt angels themselfs for that matter.

One thing some of the Jews should learn around here is that they should not wear theyre religious clothing ,it makes them an easy target. (you know the long black robe with hat)

Eventually ,the Palestinians arounfd here dress themselfs normally ,and not with handtowels around theire head.

I'm getting fearly annoyed with the Jews in Antwerp that just won't assimilate ,that is not all of them i think about 50% only ,other jews are pretty good assimilated.It's my oppinion that if you lived here fr thousands of generation's ,that you really should have addopted yourself to youre harbouring country ,and not run around as distinct as that.

Most people that immigrate here are must adopt ourself to our culture ,most Belgian's feel this way ,and many culture's do this very well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  (Bernadotte @ Dec. 02 2003,11:54) said:
  (bmgarcangel @ Dec. 01 2003,21:29) said:
Why do most people believe that america is bad for supporting Israel? why do you guys think israel is the bad boy around there??  hmmm?

small_women.jpg

Wow! 2 ladies with signs! And about the 100th time you posted them.

I can't say anything about the Arab woman on the left (How did she leave? Why can't she return? Is she a terrorist? Can't say from the picture, though.) but if the Jewish woman on the right wishes to disassociate herself from her own people's land of inheritance, that's her choice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  [b said:
Quote[/b] ]I can't say anything about the Arab woman on the left (How did she leave? Why can't she return? Is she a terrorist? Can't say from the picture, though.) but if the Jewish woman on the right wishes to disassociate herself from her own people's land of inheritance, that's her choice.

This doesn't matter ,he was making a clear point.What about further discussing the basis of this point thus the territorial claim's of Israel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  (Apollo @ Dec. 02 2003,14:20) said:
My country ,Belgium ,has one of the largest Jewish and Palestinian community's in Europe.Due to the tension's in Insreal/Palestine ,these 2 minority's more and more are becoming violent towards eachother on European soil.It wouldn't be the first time that some sinahoge is bombed around here ,and France has that problem to.It creates social unrest around here ,and rest assure my country doesn't like that.Sure it's mostly Palestinian's aggitating on Jews ,though the jews arnt angels themselfs for that matter.

Put your money where your mouth is. Would you like to share a documented report on how many anti-Jewish/Israeli attacks there have been in Belgium and Europe versus how many anti-Arab attacks?

  [b said:
Quote[/b] ]One thing some of the Jews should learn around here is that they should not wear theyre religious clothing ,it makes them an easy target. (you know the long black robe with hat)

Will you ask all Moslems to kindly remove their ethnic garb? No, I thought not.

Anyway, the Jews of France have been frightened enough. This in today's news:

  [b said:
Quote[/b] ]Dec. 2, 2003

Paris Jewish pupil beaten up by Muslims

By MICHEL ZLOTOWSKI

PARIS

A Jewish pupil attending a highly rated Paris secondary school was repeatedly beaten up by Muslim fellow pupils.

The headmaster filed a lawsuit against the two aggressors.

The 11-year old Jewish boy, whose name was not released, was repetitively verbally abused and beaten by two Muslim pupils of the same class.

"We'll finish Hitler's job," they reportedly yelled at him. The headmaster moved the Jewish boy to another class within the 1,800 pupils secondary school. The victim is currently under tranquilizers, according to the French weekly "Le Journal du Dimanche".

The Lyc e Montaigne is located in one of the most exclusive areas of Paris opposite the Luxembourg garden.

The headmaster Jean-Marie Renault announced he will "organize a debate on the dangers of xenophobia" next term and denied any foot-dragging in the handling of the case. "The issue is very complex. There is obviously a victim that should be protected, but there are no admission and no witnesses willing to testify. We're in a dead-end."

Other Jewish pupils at Lyc e Montaigne decided to take off their "Hai" and Magen David necklaces.

France's Chief rabbi Joseph Sitruk recently recommended that Jewish boys should wear caps instead of their kippas in order to avoid being physically abused in the streets.

Congratulations! You get your wish!

  [b said:
Quote[/b] ]I'm getting fearly annoyed with the Jews in Antwerp that just won't assimilate

Ah! The great liberal cosmopolitan tollerant European. Indeed, we Jews don't belong there. We've forgotten how many of our Belgian non-jewish neighbors zealously uncovered and handed over the Jews of Belgium to be gassed and cremated by the Nazis. Must run in the genes.

  [b said:
Quote[/b] ]It's my oppinion that if you lived here fr thousands of generation's ,that you really should have addopted yourself to youre harbouring country ,and not run around as distinct as that.

The ultimate snob.

BTW, thousands of generations? Really? What percentage of Belgian Jewish today were there before the war? What percentage of Belgian Jews today, in the black Hassidic garn you are so indignant of, do not speak French or Flemish? BTW, what should they wear? Jeans? Noserings? Pierced navels? Should they have skinhead or pink/green/orange punk haircuts, my dear minister of Belgian culture (sic).

  [b said:
Quote[/b] ]Most people that immigrate here are must adopt ourself to our culture ,most Belgian's feel this way ,and many culture's do this very well.

There was a time where the Europeans used to tell us "Why don't you Jews get out and go to Palestine where you belong". Many of those still alive today, listened then.

Thank you for being so candid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×