The Middle East part 2

[killagee 0]

And i'm not French I'm worse!

What can be worse? Joke!

I have forgiven the french for sinking the Rainbow Warrior in my home town...

Anyway I stay away from this thread because I get too angry and say things I or other people regret, so Bye bye!

[ran 0]

I have forgiven the french for sinking the Rainbow Warrior in my home town...

we didn't sink it , the Venusians did ;)

aaah op. Satanique . what a huge fuck up ......

[ran 0]

Those terms -wahhabi , fatwa are now known , at least in my frenchy country

Hey Ran.  Are the terms fatwa and wahhabi known in your "frenchy country?"

fatwa has been used quite a lot by local media right after the 11th september

wahabi must have been used while i didn't listen

[ran 0]

And i'm not French    I'm worse!

yeahg , much worse

[Bernadotte 0]

Bernadotte, from what i gathered just sitting on my behind watching these arguments is that you are a Canadian (college?) student?

Would you believe a Canadian engineer living in Central Europe since 1988?  

As there seems to be no solution to the bunch of hairy fanatics running around i am inclined to say just let the Israelis keep trying to suppress them with an iron hand and the Palestinians keep killing the Israelis.

Reasons to be optimistic:

1.  Arafat is leaving the building.

2.  Saddam Hussein is no longer able to send money to the families of terrorists.  Syria, Iran and Saudi Arabia may also be neutered in the near future.

3.  The US is finally changing its campaign finance laws, making it tougher for pro-Israel lobbies to influence politicians in constituencies with few ardent pro-Israel voters (i.e. right-wing Christians and Jews, defence contractors, etc.).

4.  The US intends to phase out most domestic aid to Israel by 2007, which should finally halt most territorial settlement expansion if the Israeli economy fails to improve on its own.

5.  The number of Jewish organisations opposing Israel's right-wing politics in the US and Israel has been growing exponentially.

6.  Last and, for now, least... there is this thing called a "Roadmap to Peace."

[Jinef 2]

Why do i feel, although external aid is being reduced to Israel that this will not effect much? I hoepe it will of course but i'm sure someone somewhere gains off this violence as it would not continue otherwise.

[bn880 5]

Except #6 has failed pretty well. As was predicted. ;)

Sure we can continue to call any time in the future as a roadmap to peace, because we sure as hell can't have a roadmap to war.

[Bernadotte 0]

Why do i feel, although external aid is being reduced to Israel that this will not effect much? I hoepe it will of course but i'm sure someone somewhere gains off this violence as it would not continue otherwise.

You are quite right.  Annual domestic aid of about $1 billion will drop, however annual military aid of $2 billion could climb.  Of course, the vast majority of military aid must be spent on American hardware, making US defence contractors very big supporters of America's pro-Israel lobbies.

The hope lies in the fact that the Israeli economy is a total basket case.  If it continues to slump while western economies recover then Israel could face ruin by a real Exodus of young educated professionals packing up and leaving. Making peace would halt that.

[denoir 0]

Except #6 has failed pretty well.  As was predicted. ;)

I'm not quite sure that it has failed. I mean, there was an extensive period without any violence. So that is at least something. I really hope that the latest suicide bombing will not stop this process.

[bn880 5]

Lets just hope that the young and educated you mention are not as brick headed as the current Isreaeli leadership (doubt it), if they are I don't wanna share anything with then, not even a city.

EDIT: Yeah Denoir I was also thinking that there was some time of relative peace, but it's kind of blown away now. I don't know if you can keep making a truce and keep braking it whiel keeping the same headline "roadmap to peace"

[denoir 0]

You're probably right. I still prefer remaining optimistic for the time being. As far as I know the last couple month's peace is really unprecedented, at least for the last 10 years. I'm amazed that has worked so far so it would be a damn shame that it all returned to the same old cycle of killing.

[killagee 0]

3. The US is finally changing its campaign finance laws, making it tougher for pro-Israel lobbies to influence politicians in constituencies with few ardent pro-Israel voters (i.e. right-wing Christians and Jews, defence contractors, etc.).

Are you serious? This is GREAT news, and will improve the image of the USA immensly.

Could you tell me how this is being done and how the hawks let it happen? This is exciting news.

Maybe the USA will become a Democracy after all...

[joltan 0]

Hamas declares ceasefire over (bbc)

[Blake 0]

Cease-fire? Was there such thing as cease-fare taking place?

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Well I would say: If children cant behave then they have to be forced. I myself propose a large wall a la EAST GERMANY, combined with some very effective AP mines on each sides. High guard-towers with strong lights and heavy machine guns. If the palestinians want to cross from East teritory to west-teritory then I recommend to build a tunnel (paletinians only).

No member of the two nations are allowed to approach each other by less than 100 metres otherwise get fined. (the money raised from that fine is used to heal animals being hurt by AP mines).

[ran 0]

(the money raised from that fine is used to heal animals being hurt by AP mines).

LOL

btw , wht kind of animals live in israel ?

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

btw , wht kind of animals live in israel ?

mainly frogs and then some species belonging to the family of teroristi fanatici!

[ran 0]

btw , wht kind of animals live in israel ?

mainly frogs and then some species belonging to the family of teroristi fanatici!

frogs on the Golan heights ?

[denoir 0]

Hamas declares ceasefire over (bbc)

Well, I guess that's the end of the roadmap.

And I think that Israel is to blame.  Yes, they were the victims of the suicide bombing.  Yes, the Palestinian extremists broke the cease-fire.  However, they are extremists and Israel must be expected to take the high road.  As unfair as it might sound, they should not have retaliated for the suicide bombing.  And yes, there would have been more innocent Israeli civilians who would've died during the peace process.  But somebody has to take the high road.  And you can't very well expect terrorists and extremists to do that.  Israel has to shoulder that responsibility.

We have been down this road before and we know where it leads.

[bn880 5]

Well and I mean it really spiraled down from that rocket attack on hamas members weeks ago. The non release of prisonners wasn't great on behalf of Israel either.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

It was ridiculous. The israelis should have been more adult than that. No negotiations with terorists (no provocation either) but serious goodwilling peacetalks.

WE ALL KNEW THAT THERE WOULD BE A SILLY SUICIDE ATTACK DURING THE PEACETALKS , anyone assuming the opposite must be soo terribly stupid and naive. But since the Israelis arent stupid and knew it beforehand they should have not gotten irritated nor reacted.

BUT instead they f.u.cked it up again. A simple reactive measure would have been okay...but a missile attack from a helicopter on a leading member of the fundamentalists.

CONGRATULATIONS FOR THIS DIPLOMATIC MASTERPIECE. You realy know how to remain tolerant sensitive and modest on the way to peace! As I said: Children!

[EiZei 0]

And the carnage goes on..

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

And the carnage goes on..

Yes...

I dont expect much of an effort from savage terorists. But politicians of a powerful grown up nation?..give me a break!

[ruff 102]

i feel so sorry for the ppl israel and palestine

both nations just cant get along

this road map after another seems to do nothing

now hamas shouldnt of done wat they did, killed lots of ppl and children during the peace process by another suicide bomber where lots of children were

i mean the reason they say they are doing this is to to get all of israel back but wat do they say wen claiming responsibility

it was a revenge attack for killing a hamas member, then they briefly say we want all of israel

come on how do u expect israel to react now

back to square one

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

i feel so sorry for the ppl israel and palestine

both nations just cant get along

this road map after another seems to do nothing

now hamas shouldnt of done wat they did, killed lots of ppl and children during the peace process by another suicide bomber where lots of children were

i mean the reason they say they are doing this is to to get all of israel back but wat do they say wen claiming responsibility

it was a revenge attack for killing a hamas member, then they briefly say we want all of israel

come on how do u expect israel to react now

back to square one

The terorists are the winners in the whole game. It is not Israel negotiating with the terorists...but Israel with the palestinians. People seem to confuse that. And THAT is actually what the terorists have achieved.