The Middle East part 2

[Warin 0]

Objectionable photo removed

It`s back!!!    

Please dont spam this thread, or I will be forced to post restrict you.

[Bernadotte 0]

Flashplayer

Interesting...

According to Der Spiegel, 4 important things happened before 1972 and 22 important things happened after.  It's almost as if the Middle East Crisis wasn't a real crisis until the Munich massacre... from a German media perspektive.

No, it is just that the SPIEGEL didnt cover this topic as much as after the Munich massacre. Lets not forget that this is a summary of previously published articles.

How many articles did you find in the NEW YORK TIMES about Afghanistan before 9/11?  

You're quite right.  Terrorism is a much more effective means of getting mass media (and public) attention than peaceful protest.  You might even say that mass media rewards non-peaceful protest.

[Die Alive 0]

Palestinian P.M. Abbas Quits Fatah Post

-=Die Alive=-

[USSoldier11B 0]

The media rewards anything that ups the Nielson ratings...why not just protest naked?

[DracoPaladore 0]

why not just protest naked?

I think they tried that in Germany, but I heard they all stopped when it got cold out.

[Oligo 1]

Not that simple. If the Israelis commited genocide openly, the USA would withdraw all support and war will be waged on Israel to prevent them.

Don't be so certain.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Not that simple. If the Israelis commited genocide openly, the USA would withdraw all support and war will be waged on Israel to prevent them.

Don't be so certain.

Ouch- that's below the belt.

[brgnorway 0]

Every now and then I think it's best to play along and for a period at least resume the critic. I'm very well aware of the alledged crime done by Sharon in the past. However, PLO and Arafat is not a saint either. The fact is that these persons represent their respective countries - and the peace process is very much dependent on their initiative.

Sharon just "left the building" after a short stay here in Norway. This raised a lot of feelings whith the strongest critics, and of course the friends of Israel reacted to that.

I can't say I disagree whith Mona Juel Larsen when she said that the peace process is very much dependent on Sharon. He represents the Likud party and used to be one of the staunchest oponents of the Oslo agreement. If Sharon and Likud participate in the road for peace program we should wait and see if it works out. Don't forget that Sharon is the key factor in the settlements- and occupation issue. Arafat and Abbas on the other hand have a crucial role in supressing the palestinian violence. If these two major issues can't be adressed then the whole process will derail like the Oslo agreement. See, that's why there is a need for Sharon after all.

[Crazysheep 1]

@ July 16 2003,18:16)]

Not that simple. If the Israelis commited genocide openly, the USA would withdraw all support and war will be waged on Israel to prevent them.

Don't be so certain.

Ouch- that's below the belt.

Not really, because I'm no big fan of The Bush Administration. But I think that, since most Americans don't really know much about Israel, if they heard they were massacring innocents they would be against them.

[Bernadotte 0]

@ July 16 2003,18:16)]

Not that simple. If the Israelis commited genocide openly, the USA would withdraw all support and war will be waged on Israel to prevent them.

Don't be so certain.

Ouch- that's below the belt.

Not really, because I'm no big fan of The Bush Administration. But I think that, since most Americans don't really know much about Israel, if they heard they were massacring innocents they would be against them.

But Israel has massacred innocents many times and the US and the UN criticised them each time, but just for a little while.  

[Tex -USMC- 0]

@ July 16 2003,18:16)]

Not that simple. If the Israelis commited genocide openly, the USA would withdraw all support and war will be waged on Israel to prevent them.

Don't be so certain.

Ouch- that's below the belt.

Not really, because I'm no big fan of The Bush Administration. But I think that, since most Americans don't really know much about Israel, if they heard they were massacring innocents they would be against them.

But Israel has massacred innocents many times and the US and the UN criticised them each time, but just for a little while.  

Yeah, and so have Palestinians. Get over the right and wrong argument. All that matters now is making peace.

[Longinius 1]

"But Israel has massacred innocents many times and the US and the UN criticised them each time, but just for a little while."

Yes, because as soon as you object to what Israel does, you are an anti semitic nazi only out to get the jews! Its all about them being jewish, and never about war, terrorism and civilian suffering.

"Yeah, and so have Palestinians. Get over the right and wrong argument. All that matters now is making peace. "

The thing is, no one is denying that the Palestinian "freedom fighters" use terrorist tactics. People are objecting to it and saying that its the wrong way to do it. For some reason, it appears to be more OK for Israel to use terrorist tactics however.

[Bernadotte 0]

@ July 17 2003,07:35)]

@ July 16 2003,18:16)]

Not that simple. If the Israelis commited genocide openly, the USA would withdraw all support and war will be waged on Israel to prevent them.

Don't be so certain.

Ouch- that's below the belt.

Not really, because I'm no big fan of The Bush Administration. But I think that, since most Americans don't really know much about Israel, if they heard they were massacring innocents they would be against them.

But Israel has massacred innocents many times and the US and the UN criticised them each time, but just for a little while.  

Yeah, and so have Palestinians. Get over the right and wrong argument. All that matters now is making peace.

Read it again, Tex.  This was not an exchange about right and wrong.  It was about Americans knowing that Israel has also massacred innocents.

And if making peace really is all that matters now then why does America continue to send $170 million worth of military hardware to Israel each month and nothing to the other side in the conflict?  This aid has been going on uninterrupted for decades and began long after Israel carried out its first massacre of innocents.

[Oligo 1]

The thing is, no one is denying that the Palestinian "freedom fighters" use terrorist tactics. People are objecting to it and saying that its the wrong way to do it.

Then again, when did anybody ever gain freedom without using all out warfare to acquire it? (Not counting Gandhi.) Freedom fighters (or whatever you want to call them) have limited options.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

I'm surprised no one picked up on this. Jenin governor beaten up and abducted by "fellow" Palestinians.

Whilst at this opportunity they still respected Arafat's orders, who knows when they will stop to do so? This article hints at great divisions amongst the PA and their people. With infighting such as this, how realistic is a peace treaty with the Palestinian people if they are split into many groups?

[Akira 0]

And if making peace really is all that matters now then why does America continue to send $170 million worth of military hardware to Israel each month and nothing to the other side in the conflict?  This aid has been going on uninterrupted for decades and began long after Israel carried out its first massacre of innocents.

That makes no sense. Send weapons to both sides? Geez I can see the headline now!

"USA Profiting from Weapon Sales to Israel-Palestinian Conflict"

Yeah that would be great. Hand weapons to both sides then stand back and watch them go at it.

We sell weapons to Taiwan as well. Technically, they are a breakaway province of China. Should we stop aid to them as well?

Both sides need to get over themselves, and the politicians need to shut their holes. The civilians, the common people are the ones that are getting hurt in this.

[Gollum1 0]

And if making peace really is all that matters now then why does America continue to send $170 million worth of military hardware to Israel each month and nothing to the other side in the conflict?  This aid has been going on uninterrupted for decades and began long after Israel carried out its first massacre of innocents.

That makes no sense. Send weapons to both sides? Geez I can see the headline now!

"USA Profiting from Weapon Sales to Israel-Palestinian Conflict"

Yeah that would be great. Hand weapons to both sides then stand back and watch them go at it.

We sell weapons to Taiwan as well. Technically, they are a breakaway province of China. Should we stop aid to them as well?

Both sides need to get over themselves, and the politicians need to  shut their holes. The civilians, the common people are the ones that are getting hurt in this.

Good points, but what are the chances of politicians getting over themselves? They´re POLITICIANS, for chrissakes!

(I know you meant that they should but won´t)

[Bernadotte 0]

And if making peace really is all that matters now then why does America continue to send $170 million worth of military hardware to Israel each month and nothing to the other side in the conflict?  This aid has been going on uninterrupted for decades and began long after Israel carried out its first massacre of innocents.

That makes no sense. Send weapons to both sides? Geez I can see the headline now!

"USA Profiting from Weapon Sales to Israel-Palestinian Conflict"

Yeah that would be great. Hand weapons to both sides then stand back and watch them go at it.

We sell weapons to Taiwan as well. Technically, they are a breakaway province of China. Should we stop aid to them as well?

Both sides need to get over themselves, and the politicians need to  shut their holes. The civilians, the common people are the ones that are getting hurt in this.

Hmm... let's see... You might be right about that.  In that case, what if the US doesn't send any military hardware at all to either side.  Of course, then the headlines would read:

"Unemployment Skyrockets as US Defence Industry Sinks into Recession"

[9mm 0]

USA would never abandon Israel, they simply have no other allies in this ultra-important region.

Even worst Israeli war crime won't change this.

[Bernadotte 0]

USA would never abandon Israel, they simply have no other allies in this ultra-important region.

Even worst Israeli war crime won't change this.

I'd agree that the US has no other colony in the region, but they have plenty of allies.

Oops... I should have said that, before May of this year, the US had no other colony in the region.

I agree with the rest of what you said.

[9mm 0]

Iraq as US colony, well at the current status it really looks like that way, but i wouldn't go that far calling Israel a US colony.

Of coarse some arabic goverments declare their support for USA, but Israle It's the only country in the region, where average citizen don't hate USA.

[Bernadotte 0]

Iraq as US colony, well at the current status it really looks like that way, but i wouldn't go that far calling Israel a US colony.

Of coarse some arabic goverments declare their support for USA, but Israle It's the only country in the region, where average citizen don't hate USA.

I wouldn't be surprised if the average person in France or German hated the US, but they are still allies.  And they would probably love the US as much as the Israelis do if the US would also send $500/year to each of their citizens.

[Bernadotte 0]

Quote[/b] ]An Israeli soldier in the West Bank shot and killed a 4-year-old Palestinian boy and wounded two other children Friday in the latest violent incident to break the relative calm of recent weeks.  The army called the shooting an accident, but a Palestinian official said the soldier fired unprovoked at a vehicle waiting at a road block.

...

In Friday's shooting, a soldier fired a tank-mounted machine gun in the West Bank town of Barta.  A 4-year-old boy, Mahmoud Kabaha, was killed and his two sisters injured.

The military said the boy had died after "an accidental burst of gunfire ... following an operational error."  The army expressed regret for the incident and said it had launched an investigation.

The town's mayor, Ghassan Kabaha -- a distant relative of the dead boy -- said the shooting appeared unprovoked and the jeep in which the boy had been traveling was riddled with bullets. "All the people here, even the other soldiers, were stunned," he said.

Full story.

For anyone who knows about checkpoint procedures:

- Is it common practice to point loaded tank mounted machine guns at civilian vehicles with the safety off?

- What sort of "operational error" can lead to "an accidental burst of gunfire?"

[DracoPaladore 0]

- What sort of "operational error" can lead to "an accidental burst of gunfire?"

A brain fart. I'm not really surprised. My question is why were the guns pointed at these people in the first place?

[deadsoldier 0]

And if making peace really is all that matters now then why does America continue to send $170 million worth of military hardware to Israel each month and nothing to the other side in the conflict?  This aid has been going on uninterrupted for decades and began long after Israel carried out its first massacre of innocents.

That makes no sense. Send weapons to both sides? Geez I can see the headline now!

"USA Profiting from Weapon Sales to Israel-Palestinian Conflict"

Yeah that would be great. Hand weapons to both sides then stand back and watch them go at it.

We sell weapons to Taiwan as well. Technically, they are a breakaway province of China. Should we stop aid to them as well?

Both sides need to get over themselves, and the politicians need to  shut their holes. The civilians, the common people are the ones that are getting hurt in this.

<snip>

cheers