ag_smith 0 Posted March 7, 2005 Whatever you say, Sea Demons plane can make 180 degree turn almost on spot an this is highly unrealistic. <span style='font-size:7.1pt;line-height:100%'>...maybe MiG-29 can out manouver F-16, but thanks to outdated electronics and rockets, it won't be able to shoot it down.... so what?</span> Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gedis 0 Posted March 7, 2005 there is MIG-29SMT version, full with modern electronick and modern rocket's, also it can engage ground targets... besides 29 cost and explotation is much cheaper, it can take-off from bad airfields... it's russian technick, only they could build good technik having less money than other country's... besides Mig-29A/B/C and F-16A/B/C/D are old versions, there are plenty new ones, wich corrects previous versions bugs ;) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chops 111 Posted March 7, 2005 Gedis. How many of the parts you proudly display in your signature are of Russian design? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ag_smith 0 Posted March 7, 2005 besides Mig-29A/B/C and F-16A/B/C/D are old versions, there are plenty new ones, wich corrects previous versions bugs ;) You forgot to say that there are only a few of these new ones built (SMT versions), while the avionics of majority of F-16 is far superior to avionics of majority of MiG-29. Also, it's interesting that one flight our is estimated to cost around 20000$ for MiG-29A, while it's around 15000$ for F-16C (Block 50/52) and below 8000$ for way more modern JAS-39 Gripen. Source (Polish only) PS. Hmmm, I can't really understand, why you, being Lithuanian, boast Russian equipment so much. Really no offence meant, though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gedis 0 Posted March 7, 2005 wars (especialy middle east) showed, that russian technik are far better than us and etc. there were no difference if you had technologicaly well built fighter plane, with good radars and avionic equipment, pilots did theyr best to force manuevers that missiles and radars wouldn't take effect( flight in 15-50m. height to hide from radars detection; to avoid missiles pilots slowed speed and manuevered as they could and it worked). if you want to compare distance battle you should argue about F-14 vs. Mig-31(Su with long distance rockets) when there are almost no direct sighting to enemys aircraft, then radars and avionicks show the best of fighters... and don't compare Mig-29A with F-16C Block 50/52(it's newer and more advanced); Mig-29A vs. F-16A... to Chops, none, because i talk about russian millitary disign P.S. because i really mean, russian planes are better and cheaper besides if in Jugoslavia, when NATO involved thit it's military power, Jugoslavian Mig-21 shot down even F-15! :ppp Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.COMmunist 0 Posted March 7, 2005 Lots of biased opinions here... To answer the question of Avon lady, in the war between Syria and Israel in the 70's Syrian Migs-23 shot down 6 F-16's and 5 F-15's. Israel shot down 13 or 14 Mig-23's. This information is according Syrian sources, Israel refused to release this info even to the Americans. You can't just say that one plane is by far better then the other. It realy all depends on the pilot's training. Most specialists compare Mig-29 with F-16. Su-27 was designed to fight F-15. Problems with Mig-29 are poor electronics; and F-16 has very poor survivability. All F-16 controls come from one computer, and if the computer gets damaged, you better get the hell out of there. Mig on the other had can take lots of beating. It's controls can be automated and manual and other. So, each plane has its perks. By the way does anyone know how to get into .pbo file and fix the addon properties? Many of these addons are very disbalanced. I wish I can change it arround for my own missions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted March 7, 2005 Lots of biased opinions here... To answer the question of Avon lady, in the war between Syria and Israel in the 70's Syrian Migs-23 shot down 6 F-16's and 5 F-15's. Israel shot down 13 or 14 Mig-23's. This information is according Syrian sources. Fascinating. Israel acquired F-15s in 1975 - two years after the Yom Kipur war. The Syrians must've shot down cardboard mockups. Did you confuse wars? In 1973, Israel was flying things like Phantoms and Mirages. If you want to see what more modern aircraft can do, just give us the dogfight statistics for the Peace of Galilee War in 1982. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gedis 0 Posted March 7, 2005 I'm talking about 1982 siryan and israel war!!! .COMmunist there are truth in your words: "You can't just say that one plane is by far better then the other"; "Su-27 was designed to fight F-15" ;) Sad that there are  people who want to start arguing about they love-ones(planes) ;) yes i like mig-21/29/31 and su-25/24/39/27 and etc. but when it comes to defend their name, i let my knolidge fly as people who start arguing!  Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted March 7, 2005 I'm talking about 1982 siryan and israel war!!! Israel shot down about 80 Syrian planes. To the best of my knowledge, not a single Israeli plane was downed in 1982. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nSe7eN 0 Posted March 7, 2005 I'm talking about 1982 siryan and israel war!!! Israel shot down about 80 Syrian planes. To the best of my knowledge, not a single Israeli plane was downed in 1982. That’s a fact, if that happens again between Syria and Israel, Syria will lose everything can even fly! Thanks for posting this tom! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gedis 0 Posted March 7, 2005 about 1982, you are wrong... according to acig.org (this site's information is confermed) there were IAF looses, just read it!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted March 7, 2005 about 1982, you are wrong... according to acig.org (this site's information is confermed) there were IAF looses, just read it!!! I read it. First It says: Quote[/b] ]In total, during the fighting over Lebanon, between April 1981 and June 1982, the SyAAF MiG-23MS claimed two kills and suffered a loss of four planes and one pilot Then it says: Quote[/b] ](according to Syrian sources, the SyAAF lost a total of 85 planes between 6th and 11th June, 1982, together with 27 pilots killed and eight injured, and in exchange for 21 Israeli aircraft and helicopters; Israeli sources, to contrary, deny any losses in air combats, while their published air-to-air claims vary between 82:0 and 85:0). What's the first part and what's the second part? If the first part is prior to the war, OK. But it still means that during the war, no Israeli planes were shot down. And in total, even if accurate, that would amount to 89:2. So your point is? UPDATE: Israel would have a very hard time covering up missing/dead pilots. Everyone knows everyone here and we, unfortunately, take each and every funeral and/or memorial quite seriously. If they were downed, they would have been eulogized, printed announcements and all. UPDATE: And if yu yourself would read the article, you would see that the 2 planes that were shot down prior to the war were both A4 Skyhawks - not F15/16s: Quote[/b] ]The first such event occurred on the afternoon of 26th April 1981, when an Israeli formation bombed the PLO-positions in the southern Lebanese city of Sidon. Two MiG-23MS, which were on low orbit over northern Lebanon, were vectored to intercept, and they were successful in shooting two A-4 Skyhawks down. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nSe7eN 0 Posted March 7, 2005 Listen dear, SU-27 designed to be similar or to face the F-15, but the funny part can they actually stand a chance in front of the f-15, the same war proved the opposite, according to your source there might be some Israeli casualties , ok lets say I believe that source, but that does not mean that SU-27 is that good to face the f-15s just compare the amount of the casualties between the 2 parts in that war, also never trust the official sources in the most of the Arabian governments in war conditions, take the Iraqi war and the 1967 war, they overrating the news , its funny to take the Syrian governments and what it said, its really evil government and extremely corrupted, and trust me I don’t defend or offend any part, the Syrian government is very evil! And this is this not the correct topic for such discussion! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gedis 0 Posted March 7, 2005 no... I WON'T argue again... you guys say your's thruth... but site is good, there are futher wars. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.COMmunist 0 Posted March 7, 2005 I stand corrected on the year of the conflict. It was in the 80's. My source is my father's friend who was a Soviet advisor to the Syrian military there. He said that the Syrians were very stubborn and refused to listen to the Russian advisors. Israelies were getting coverage from American AWACS flying over the medditerranian sea and the Syrians were flying blind. Russians told them to move up air deffence and radars beyond the mountain range, but those dumbasses refused. So they lost almost 40 old mig-21's and 14 Mig-23's in that fight ( something like that, it's been 15 years since I've heard this story, sorry ). That's all I remember. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted March 8, 2005 no... I WON'T argue again... you guys say your's thruth...but site is good, there are futher wars. Are you by chance a Mikoyan-Gurevich (MIG, to the masses) stockholder? You sure sound like you're desparate to drum up business. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bobcatt666 0 Posted March 8, 2005 BACK TO TOPIC THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gedis 0 Posted March 8, 2005 YES back to topic, Sea Demon here are some data for you, to makeyour addon better: russian Mig-29K: [im]http://www.airforce.ru/aircraft/miscellaneous/carriers/kouznetsov_flight_deck.jpg[/img]>100kb in this site you can look different modifications: http://worldweapon.ru/sam/mig29.php http://www.brazd.ru/books/b0001/s/sovetskie_agressori/ http://www.aviation.orc.ru/mig/mig29-o.htm some Mig-29 drawings: http://www.aviation.orc.ru/mig/mig29-c.htm http://www.airforce.ru/aircraft/mikoyan/mig-29/index.htm info: http://www.aviation.orc.ru/mig/mig-29.htm huge pictures, drawings, paint schemes database: http://www.brazd.ru/catalog....page_13 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gedis 0 Posted March 8, 2005 Mig-29 anti-aircraft missiles: R-60MK min./max. range  0,5-12 km. max. speed  2,5 Mach. max. G     18 West countrys have nothig similar, small and so deadly in close dogfight R-73 min./max. range  0,3-30 km. max. speed  2,5 Mach. max. G     30 West has newest "Sidewinder" modifications R-77 min./max. range  0,5-150km. max. speed  3 Mach. max. G     30 West has newest "AMRAAM" modifications R-27 min./max. range  0,5-130km.(different versions). max. speed  3,4 Mach. max. G     20 West countrys have nothig similar F-16 anti-aircraft missiles: AIM-9M/L min./max. range  ?-18 km. max. speed  2,5 Mach. max. G     22 AIM-120C AMRAAM min./max. range  ?-120 km. max. speed  3 Mach. max. G     22 so who gona be downed first, Mig-29 or F-16, ha? LOL  Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
philcommando 0 Posted March 8, 2005 Shocking losses of Syrian planes and pilots!!!! Hang the instructors please!!!! Hell! i'll bet a game of ofp would make better pilots, and only $9.99!!!! Nice plane by the way, always great to see more russians planes - at least something to counter the west's air superiority, folks may just get too complacent....Ivan aint no pushover, folks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nSe7eN 0 Posted March 8, 2005 Quote[/b] ]so who gona be downed first, Mig-29 or F-16, ha? LOL Oh man! Some people can’t handle an argument! Nice research though! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.COMmunist 0 Posted March 8, 2005 It might not be the best thread for this question, but... Seems like you ppl know much about OFP air wars. Is it possible to have 2 air fields on the map from where the planes of opposite side can take off and land? I wish to make a mission where planes can come on go from both sides. Anybody knowledgable enough about this? I sure as hell have no idea. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tomislav 0 Posted March 8, 2005 no sorry, you can only make one airfield AI friendly, on the other one they will not land nor take off, also there could work a trick, but i dunno if it would work Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.COMmunist 0 Posted March 8, 2005 Thanks Tomislav. BTW love your website. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tomislav 0 Posted March 8, 2005 Thanks Tomislav. BTW love your website. what website? edit: @avon: nothing is for sure over there as everyone only claims to, or deny the other claims, i guess things like that should be dicussed on the offtopic forum or via pm, that counts for the others too of course Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
