CQC techniques

[blasko 0]

Hello, I have some suggestions for ofp 2, but I don't know if it is possible :

- Add CQC ( Close Quarter Combat ) techniques for infantry.

It could be useful for specops and silent missions ( neck breaking, knife attacks, punchs, etc ... )

- to "stick" to the walls

- wear enemy uniforms

- climb to trees

- enable to use hand signals

- to stalk

I have other ideas but i've forgotten. I guess some can't be realized, and I want to know which of them. ( sorry for my english ).

[gandalf the white 0]

- Add CQC

They will

- to "stick" to the walls

AI overall will be better, there is also a "urban AI" script on OFPEC somewhere.

- wear enemy uniforms

What's the use of that in large-scale warfare?

- climb to trees

Why? it can be done with a stair system already, but it wont give you any cover...

- enable to use hand signals

Already possible (script0rs pwn!), but little missions use it.

- to stalk

just press F ? (OFP2's AI will use Field of View instead of presence i am sure)

[SpecOp9 0]

Isnt metal gear solid enough for all that?

[blasko 0]

I think that OFP and MGS are complementary

Other question : will they be some unhabitants in town ?

[Friedchiken 0]

"unhabitants"?  Could you say that again?  

Anyways, as much as I like the new Metal Gear game as a complement to OFP, I think that BIS should implement different stealth elements.

Like noise pollution.  I imagine that in RL it's impossible to just sneak up on some OPFOR if your wearing combat boots, unless there's alot of noise hiding your steps.  I think games make knife techniques a bit to simplistic to use and the importance of "sound drowning" could apply to other aspects of gameplay.  Like moving "loudly" but still being able to sneak towards the OPFOR because there is so much noise.  Or "sniping" (any concealed marksmanship) under the cover of distant distractions.

The only other thing I can think of is the ability to use distractions like flashbang trip wires.

Just my opinion, but having a brother who used to do wrestling as a sport, it seems that "knifing" the enemy is something you only perform against some idiot with slower-than-average reflexes.  From what I heard, half of what you see in MGS3 doesn'y make sense from a physics perspective, as you can't just push a guy onto the floor without some awkward moments.  If MGS3 was a real indication of "CQC," John Doe would fail in 75% of his attacks against alert sentries.

But that doesn't mean that's fun.  

[HuNtA 0]

kinda straying off topic.... but its easy to get some1 on the floor without arkward movements

get behind them, wrap one of your feet around their ankles... and push

[stevevcb 3]

Regarding the idea of sound dampening etc., it'd be great if the AI could pick up on the sound of your kit rubbing or rattling depending on how close you are. By that I mean if you're wearing a bergen, full webbing and have a belt-fed machine gun slung over you, you'd have things rustling, clanking, clicking together, and they'd hear you coming over ten fields. If you were just wearing beltkit and your weapon (and your uniform, obviously), you'd make less noise on the move. Now, this could be tied to the unit type (a conscript or regular soldier making more noise than a smoothy special forces bloke), or, more interestingly I think, to the skill slider. That way, you could have a way of simulating preparation before a mission, or personal experience. That way, you could simulate differing levels of skill within a squad, with some members being seemingly more experienced and therefore quieter, and some being very unexperienced, and having their kit rattling and clanking all over the show.

Just my $0.02 US.

[Friedchiken 0]

kinda straying off topic.... but its easy to get some1 on the floor without arkward movements

get behind them, wrap one of your feet around their ankles... and push  

Yeah... but I was talking about Snake and Boss tossing each other face to face.  Sneak attacks make sense if you can get in range unnoticed, but Boss just pushes Snake in the chest and he does a freaking somersault!  Same thing for Snake vs an alert sentry, it just takes a moment for the sentry to spray wildly and then CQC is useless, just "wave" at the legs.

Back on topic, you can script the stealing of uniforms on OFP.  I don't think we need to get more in-depth than that.    Plus think of the potential friendly-fire accidents in other situations.

And about skills, I think BIS should still think about separating skill sliders for different attributes like stealth vs weapons vs psychological health skill.

[Baphomet 0]

No offence but this thread isn't really contributing anything. OFP != MGS, and it never will be. Soldiers don't perform wrestling moves on people with guns. You try sneaking up on someone and doing that. The person will shoot you before you even have a chance to. This is a battlefield simulator, not a jerry bruckheimer movie simulator.

[Friedchiken 0]

No offence but this thread isn't really contributing anything. OFP != MGS, and it never will be. Soldiers don't perform wrestling moves on people with guns. You try sneaking up on someone and doing that. The person will shoot you before you even have a chance to. This is a battlefield simulator, not a jerry bruckheimer movie simulator.

See, that's what I'm trying to get at. I don't know what Masuda Mori was thinking, but MGS is a freakish action movie simulator at best. (Not that that is a bad thing.)

However, I am just trying to point out some other ways stealth could be incorporated into OFP2.  I'm just posting in the freaking wrong thread.  

But with the new OFP ECP AI sound sensitivity that is coming soon, I just wanted to point out some sound related ideas that were already asked for.  Once people realize that they can't sneak up on someone without being heard (try hiking on various surfaces people, I personally live next to a water reservior), they will stop asking for stuff like knives or physically impossible wrestling moves.  As much as soldiers enjoy carrying around their knives for other purposes, I've only heard of occasions where idiot OPFOR were stupid/deaf enough to get cut-up.  That's what the sten-gun (actually I forgot which gun) for WWII was right?

But about the other MGS-related ideas:

- Climbing trees is insanely overated and doesn't need to be put in a sim, or else "sniper-kiddies" will get lame ideas.

- OFP2 will be 1st person so "back against wall" probably would not work very well. Why not use regular tactical movements to substitute?

- Stalking would be a nice addition, BUT, people also need to watch what they step on when they stalk. Since games right now can't simulated every twig or leaf on the ground, the effectiveness of stalking in-game should not be "super-stealthy." Stalking would be good for just being low-key though. But total sound-stealth is hard to come by.

[HuNtA 0]

yeh, and imagine how computer intensive it would be to check across an entire island wether theres a 'noise distraction' on the ground. Things like that are what make games like MGS quite limited and make them have annoying loading screens and such

[ebns72 0]

IMO, this is what needs to be done to improve cqb:

-AI. This is first and foremost. AI has no recognition of tactical movement between and inside buildings.

-Collision detection. Going through walls, falling through floors..collision detection doesn't feel "solid." If you hit a wall, you kinda bounce a little...it feels awkward.

-movement. Some may have noticed, say, that it takes a second to stop running, turn around...for example, if I am sprinting through a hallway, there is a slight delay to stop and turn left. Movement should become more fluent by being able to strafe without having to stop. This is kinda hard to explain, go out there in the game and try it. The way your character moves and fluency needs to be improved.-

-aim. This kinda ties to movement, but when you press f and start walking, even though you are walking slowly your crosshairs are bouncing all over the place.

-Interactivity-this means easy-to-open doors (action menu gets tedious in an indoor environemnt when there are 5 enemies chasing you :P) Also, more things along the lines of the dynamic interactive buildings-would love to see windows exploding, doors breaking down among other things.

-larger environments. Even though if you measure them some buildings can have fairly large interiors, for some reason spaces in ofp tend to feel cramped. This may be a problem with field of view or something, but has anyone else noticed that kinda cumbersome and "cramped" feeling when moving through a building in ofp? This needs to be improved.

I think these items could substantiall improve cqb.

[Baphomet 0]

Quote[/b] ]-aim. This kinda ties to movement, but when you press f and start walking, even though you are walking slowly your crosshairs are bouncing all over the place.

Well, you try moving and shooting any kind of gun, and staying accurate. Even though when you move with a gun it may not seem like much, but even the slightest movement can account for innaccuracy by at least a few feet. This isn't even taking recoil into account. Just try firing a shotgun when you don't have it properly braced whilst moving around. The gun even with buckshot you're not going to hit anything.

The last thing OFP needs is the ability for people to run around and shoot accurately. I might as well play something stupid like quake.

[Silver Falcon 0]

Well it is easy to make quite well movement for CQB (MOUT) in OFPanim for OFP. I have base of it, it lets me to lean to sides and fire qite well in movement (only to close range up to 30-50m).

I even have knife addon and proper move to use it and scripted enemy who can strike me by elbow (and stun me) if I try tu cut him from forward.

What is worse, i dont have special keys for leaning and so on, so I had to sacrifice back-side movement for it.

Whas should be great is something like cover - like in vietcong or at least a system that if you touch one key and arrow you can lean to the side of arrow or lower your stance a bit quickly by back arrow (still on knee for example but lover to be covered behind sanbag not needing to lie) and higher your stance a bit touching front arrow (to can fire from window and then go back quickly to kneel as you stop pushing arrow).

[blasko 0]

Well, I think that some movements could be very useful for comandos :

In Flashpoint 2 , these techniques, or others less spectacular, could save you in close combat !

The navy seals are trained to hand to hand techniques, so I think that in OFP 2, if they are these seals, those techniques are not only necessary but vital !

Moreover, do you know that during WWII comandos were taught CQC to act silently and efficiently ? OFP 2 has to incorporate CQC, like in MGS 3

[Bikecop 0]

Kinda had the close range fighting in my head too, but comparing MGS3 and OFP2 is kinda stupid. Although Hand to Hand is taught in todays armies and a while back I had the idea of giving the spets-naz soldiers systema fighting techniques and US special forces tae quan do techniques to go along with ideaology of the time (Especially when a fighting method as effective as systema was kept secret for nearly 60 years) along with just blunt boxing techniques for the normal combined arms operations soldier. Why not have a hand to hand system for OFP2? I mean it would prove useful for a combined arms sweep through a city or a town.

[CrunchyFrog 0]

...Or you could just shoot the person...

I find this idea about hand-to-hand combat too far out for OFP, what a waste of time it would be to make it

[blasko 0]

Oh i've got another question for you :

Will it be possible to play the dead ? I mean, in battlefield , you do like you were dead, and then you can surprise your enemies.

[Bikecop 0]

Playing dead meens getting your head run over by an abrams tank.

[Homefry 0]

Oh i've got another question for you :

Will it be possible to play the dead ? I mean, in battlefield , you do like you were dead, and then you can surprise your enemies.

Someone already made a script to do so in OFP(OFP Editor's Depot).... and I see no real reason why it would be needed to be implemented in OFP2.

[Phleep 0]

...Or you could just shoot the person...

I find this idea about hand-to-hand combat too far out for OFP, what a waste of time it would be to make it

If you have been in intense fighting and haven't had a chance to reload, or you have your rifle out and cannot bring it to bear due to cramped space, having the opportunity to whack them in the face to keep the enemy subdued wouldn't go amiss.

[D.murphy man 0]

On that note id like to see some sort of restriction on moving your weapon round in tight places like buildings and many other urban enviroments.

What i mean is if i have a long rifle, and im walking through a tight corridoor and for some reason or another i turn round or face the wall. my weapon would lower (instead of clipping through the wall like alot of games) meaning i will loose valible seconds as the weapon rises back up from a quik turn around in a tight space increasesing the chances of the enemy shooting me. This would mean that shorter weapons like Mp5's and other submachine guns and pistols would be more usefull in close quaters. Unlike many games (Cs:S) where most SMGs are never used in favour of rifles.

The same goes for OFP, why bother changing weapon from your m16 to your pistol when inside of a building if your m16 can still be used perfectly and is more powerfull then the pistol.