T80 ver M1A1......Real world

[starstreams 0]

Maybe someone from the Army can answer this.

In real life, is a T80 tank close to the power of an M1A1 Abrams?

I know games are not accurate, in operation flash point they make out the T80 to be the equal tank in the game but I have a feeling a real T80 is not as powerful as far as the amount of damage it can handle?

[king homer 1]

Short answer: no

[sanctuary 19]

Quote[/b] ]I know games are not accurate, in operation flash point they make out the T80 to be the equal tank in the game

Hmm, in the game, the T80 is not as powerfull as the M1A1.

Try to create a quick 1 T80 platoon vs 1 M1A1 platoon of the same skill level on a flat and open field then just count how many T80 will survive the battle : zero.

[Ares1978 0]

Short answer: no

Then again, how many M1A1's have been hit by a 125mm-launched KE penetrator that wasn't made from old volkswagens?  

[starstreams 0]

I should have probably asked about the T90 vers the M1A1 but then there is also the M1A1D which is newer I guess.

anyway, in real life a T80 is a russian tank right?

I’ve been trying to find some live videos of tanks firing and kicking a$$ if you know what I mean. I found one video where a US M1A1 in the desert got hit by something and they show the guys getting out and very hurt. One of the guys was really messed up looked like he had something sticking out of his stomach. and the other two were all bloody but they were helping the really hurt guy out of the tank.  

I really don’t like to see that, I just want to get some videos of tanks driving over heavy terrain and firing. Anyone know where I can find such videos? Old or new?

[Milkman 1]

Short answer: no

Then again, how many M1A1's have been hit by a 125mm-launched KE penetrator that wasn't made from old volkswagens?

Well, during testing they fired 105mm HEAT and HESH rounds, maybe even SABOT from about 300 meters. Results: Abrams: 1 Anti-Tank weapons: 0

[starstreams 0]

Quote[/b] ]

Hmm, in the game, the T80 is not as powerful as the M1A1.

Try to create a quick 1 T80 platoon vs 1 M1A1 platoon of the same skill level on a flat and open field then just count how many T80 will survive the battle : zero.

Did it, the M1A1 looses every time.

The T80 seems to always get the first hit, because it’s about one half a second quicker in the game. Not sure if the game version has anything to do with this, this is 1.91 Resistance.

The Abrams gets killed and then so do I.

and when I added them, I diden't touch nothing on the skill level, I placed them as is.

They were facing each exact angle across from each other

[MSpencer 0]

How about you sit on a hill and watch as a civilian instead of playing? Then see what happens.

[bardamu 0]

The endless thread

east and west: the fusion

[sanctuary 19]

Did it, the M1A1 looses every time.

The T80 seems to always get the first hit, because it’s about one half a second quicker in the game. Not sure if the game version has anything to do with this, this is 1.91 Resistance.

The Abrams gets killed and then so do I.

and when I added them, I diden't touch nothing on the skill level, I placed them as is.

They were facing each exact angle across from each other

Spectate a platoon battle as MSpencer suggested , as a human maybe you are not aiming your turret as well as the AI does (the AI gunners are usually bettre than the humans at this)

I doubt it has anything to do with your 1.91 , as this was like this in 1.46 and in 1.96.

On AI hands, on flat and open field , facing each other with equal skill and tank number, a M1A1 platoon will defeat a T80 platoon (sometime with some luck helping certainly even if they are heavily damaged the M1A1 platoon will not lose a single tank, when the T80 will just burn).

[EiZei 0]

Short answer: no

Then again, how many M1A1's have been hit by a 125mm-launched KE penetrator that wasn't made from old volkswagens?

Well, during testing they fired 105mm HEAT and HESH rounds, maybe even SABOT from about 300 meters. Results: Abrams: 1 Anti-Tank weapons: 0

Theres a bit of a difference between a 105mm round launched from a T-55 and a 125mm round launched from a T-80..

One also has to consider that T-80s are probably significantly cheaper than abramses also.

[starstreams 0]

How about you sit on a hill and watch as a civilian instead of playing? Then see what happens.

That is exactly what I did guys even before you told me.

I did this on the open desert island.

Funny thing is, sometimes the M1A1 would win and other times the T80 would win.

There must be something else going on under the hood with the mechanics of the game or something in the scripts.

First I tried it with out adding way points.

Then I tried putting a hold position way point on each unit set to engage at will/ and Aware. At this point it seemed the M1A1 Was winning every time.

But with out the way point, the T80 would take the first shot about Ë millisecond before the M1A1 fired.

The problem is it’s never consistent.

During this test I was a solder standing from the side watching both. They were both aimed at each other perfectly because I made sure the angle wheel was set exact before doing this. I don’t know what to make of this other then there are other factors involved here. again after I added the way points on each unit it seemded the M1A1 was winning.

[cain2001 0]

Dont forget the diffrent reloading times. In game a T-80 can get hit with 1 sabot and be disabled, most times it takes 2. I never seen a M1A1 getting disabled due to 1 Sabot hit or 1 AT hit. It takes two.

The question is to hit at the right place on the tanks, I seen guys taking out a brand new T-80 with 1 AT shot, and it took over 4 to destroy a M1A1. Download the T-90 Addon and try them out. Thats the real tank that you can compare to a M1A1.

But the game would suck if everything was equal. That whats makes it fun when you have a platoon of 4 m1a1 tanks comming. Even with 10 RPG soldiers you have to pull pack.

[SPQR 0]

I fear this isn't the answer that was looking for. It wasn't about comparing T-80 and M1A1 in OFP but in real life.

And there's no easy answer :

- which M1A1 ? first batch M1A1, M1A1 Heavy Armor package ?

- which T-80 ? T-80, T-80BV, T-80U ?

Both tanks weren't built following the same doctrine, an expensive one for precise gunnery and crew protection, another for assault in bulk, heavy armor, all-terrain mobility, numbers built, fighting only at a company level.

Let's take as exemple the OFP cold crisis war campaign era : 1985. We would have a fight between M1A1 and T-80BV.

The first batch of M1A1 for the US Army was only available in August 1985. They fired M827 APFSDS, which was far in penetration power from the M829 APFSDS-DU "silver bullet". Their armor was the same than the Improved M1 (105mm gun), a small protection improvement upon the basic M1 Abrams. In spite of use of fire-sensible hydraulics systems for the turret, the gunnery was good and the crew survival rate relatively high (ammo protection, automatic fire-extinguisher,...).

In 1985, Soviet Union elite troops were using T-80BV. They could fire BM-32 APFSDS-DU shells capable of penetrating the frontal armour of an Abrams without DU turret armour reinforcement. They were fast and maneuvrable in all-terrain driving (gas turbine and ground low pressure). Armour was heavy, heavy than what was told to NATO soldiers during the cold war (I'm one of them... ) : M827 APFSDS had a small chance to penetrate the T-80BV's frontal armor... only at close range and only in the turret... Nevertheless, the stabilization system and the long range gunnery wasn't precise enough (in NATO's standards), even if it was better than the T-72's.

The soviets tanks were built for assault in numbers at full speed, attacking at the company level. In a potential conflict in Europa, the combat odds wouldn't have been 1 Abrams vs 1 T-80BV.

Moreover, because of Europa geography, too many close combat would have occur, erasing some Abrams's advantages, as it would hardly be able to fire at target at 2000 meters. Combat in desert is really another story.

[Ares1978 0]

Theres a bit of a difference between a 105mm round launched from a T-55 and a 125mm round launched from a T-80..

One also has to consider that T-80s are probably significantly cheaper than abramses also.

Very few T-55's have 105mm guns. ;)

And if you compare a 100mm MECAR M1000 series tungsten penetrator to a 125mm BM-22, the difference is not so big.

But youre otherwise right. The T-80 is also a few years older than the M1, which it should be compared to, instead of the M1A1.

cain2001,

I couldn't agree more. Can't understand why people try to make everything equal. Certain vehicles have thicker armor and more powerful guns than others, but still some addon makers make them equal using "balance" as their excuse. There are quite a few addons I find completely unplayable for that reason.

[oyman 0]

sorry to continue the ofp thingy but the m1a1 has 900 armor and the T80 has 700 and they have the same exact loading times for the guns becuase they use the same one

edit

i also found a m1a2 video

m1a2 video

and a m1a1 video

m1a1 video

[starstreams 0]

Good point SPQR, I got off topic. Your right I was asking about the real thing.

By the way, you tripped me out when your said you were a Nato solder. Was It during the cold war? Thanks for the info on the tanks.

I would just be happy if I could get up close to one some day. If I were rich I’d buy one.

Thanks for the link oyman.

It’s so hard to find videos of these things. I found a really horrible site last night with these solders hurt, here is the link.

High speed modem users:

<Link Removed>

[llauma 0]

I'm sure that a single Abram or Leopard 2 wouldn't have that much problems with a single T-80 but the soviets had far many more tanks so the sum would be that they would have crushed the NATO tanks. If I remembers currectly Soviet had over 16 000 tanks in central Europe while NATO could only bring a little more than 6 000.

I don't know how many of those were abrams and T-80's but the question should be more like if one Abram is better than two and a half T-80's.

[Bobcatt666 0]

buying an abrams be bad, seeing they have a five year shelf-life not to mention an evinormental nightmare due to uruarinum used as suplimental armor.

Having been a coldwar soldier and a Abrams crewmand and repairer, its not the worlds greatest tank nore is it unstopable.

I know for a fact the armor on an abrams can be penetrated quite easilly, durring the testing and exvulation the M1 was put under, they used Real Russain hardwear to tests it effectiveness against the M1 Abrams. Many reasons behind over a dozen armor supliments and upgrades. And the development of fire and forget smart weapons. ie: STAFF, MPAT rounds.

Before raving on about how well they worked in the first Gulf war. Important facts should be remembered.

1 most of of the enemy tanks were export models from Russia, China, France, US, Yugoslovia, South Africa, Britain, and the Evil USA.

2 Most of the Iraq armored vehicles used half charges, to beable to carry more ammo.

3 Most of the enemy units had been hit by massive air strikes prior to engagements.

4 Most of his better trained and equiped units were already loaded on trucks and back in Iraq, leaving mostly National Guard-like elements and conscripts.

The armor in game by default units, is pretty close, its the early gen M1 with the 105mm main gun. Back when the M60 and M1 were used together still. Funny being on ranges about that time cause you sometimes had M48s in operation still with the M1 and M60s. Most M1s still had the 105mm main gun after the first gulfwar. Luckilly the M1A1 fielded in the first gulfwar where stores from Germany and usualy brand new opposed to tanks most units operated in training and had the 120MM smothbore cannon and improved balistical targeting computer.

After learning the 125MM main gun being placed on most russain armor could easilly breech the armor they starting making additions, and updates. Mostly they focused on other issues like the weak transmission, and suspenssion problems like braking torsion bars and roadwheel defects in the design.

In game the T80 and M1 are way too slow both tanks can easilly run at highway speeds across contry the few times I was lucky enough to get in a T72M, T80, or M84 in the field as OPFOR.

Russain armor is smaller, lighter and faster.

The tanks in the game are not the correct sizes either.

The BMPs are twice as large also, but I put that on the MP aspect of the game than anything and they game was you play the US going after the renegaged Russain General.

So a lot was left to flub for the game making proccess, also, back then most information on both tanks was still highly classified.

BIS was making a game not a simulation. So wasting time on being realistic means another game company beats you and your left sitting on your thumbs.

Be thankful you were allowed being able to make mods freely for this for the realisim nazis. (which isn't really going to happen due to the damage values in the game engine.)

Want more realistic simulation I sugest M1A1, M1A2 Tank Platoon, and Steel Beasts 1 and II

Or wait till Combat and RHS hash out the tank packs.

INQ and King Homer have a tank coming out, but my gripes are the addition to unauthorized cammos, and STAFF and MAPT rounds being used when not really issued heavilly in service due to the rounds pricetag vs the cost of the targets it would be used to engage.

People forget just how cheep the military is when it comes to issuing equipment, STAFF & MPAT rounds usualy costs more than the tank.. (Yes the tanks are setup for the ammo sometime your even issued it on specail occassions but gammers don't care just want the newest thing to pound their buddies in MP with.)

Hell they rather wait till another war started than spend money reapainting the equipment from tan back to nato color.

[Bobcatt666 0]

I'm sure that a single Abram or Leopard 2 wouldn't have that much problems with a single T-80 but the soviets had far many more tanks so the sum would be that they would have crushed the NATO tanks. If I remembers currectly Soviet had over 16 000 tanks in central Europe while NATO could only bring a little more than 6 000.

I don't know how many of those were abrams and T-80's but the question should be more like if one Abram is better than two and a half T-80's.

Hehes, about true, the big plan that if the russains attacked we fall back and throw Nukes and Nutron based weapons at the which would fry the crews inside of their tanks.

Peace through superior firepower was another aspect.

Keep Europe from falling into the hands of the Soviets, but it glow for the next 50,000 years.

Having been able to chase the 24 mechs M1s around in a M84 easy to say its a pretty good tank. Spent a lot less time working on it and in the field with it which would be a major plus on any tracked vehicle. It was fairly faste the target aquisition systems was on par with the M1 unlike the older 72s fire control.

It still all hinged on who got the first shot, and where it hit.

In most situations if we were able to keep from being spotted first the Abrams lost. Usualy following Soviet doctain in thses missions.

[lee_h._oswald 0]

What are the 5 "best" tanks in the world?

1. ?

2. ?

3. ?

4. ?

5. ?

What do you think?

MfG Lee

[-Ash- 0]

1. Fish Tank

2. Septic Tank

3. Tank Top

4. Water Tank

5. Petrol Tank

Tank you..

[FireflyPL 0]

I'm sure that a single Abram or Leopard 2 wouldn't have that much problems with a single T-80 but the soviets had far many more tanks so the sum would be that they would have crushed the NATO tanks. If I remembers currectly Soviet had over 16 000 tanks in central Europe while NATO could only bring a little more than 6 000.

I don't know how many of those were abrams and T-80's but the question should be more like if one Abram is better than two and a half T-80's.

First of all M1A1 is named Abrams (with S at the end, cause its not plural form but rather M1 tank was named after US General Creighton Williams Abrams)

Secondly at the peak of cold war USSR had about 50 000 tanks, so NATO doctrine assumed preemptive nuclear strike on Soviet 2nd line troops and bases in Central Europe (especiali in the zone between Wistula and Oder Rivers). Also to eliminate Soviet conventional superiority, NATO planted nuclear mines at the BRD - DDR border.

[FireflyPL 0]

Before raving on about how well they worked in the first Gulf war.  Important facts should be remembered.

1 most of of the enemy tanks were export models from Russia, China, France, US, Yugoslovia, South Africa, Britain, and the Evil USA.

Well not only. Great amounts of T72M (as well as other weapons) were exported in the 80s to Iraq by Poland and Czechoslovakia (at that time around 1700 T72Ms were exported to middle east countries like Syria, Lybia, Iran and Iraq).

[sanctuary 19]

Quote[/b] ]

I don't know how many of those were abrams and T-80's but the question should be more like if one Abram is better than two and a half T-80's.

That is the good point.

In most of the mission involving M1A1 in OFP , you should encounter slightly more T80 than M1A1 to keep the mission challenging (as the same number of M1A1 than T80 can make a tank-only mission a simple shoot'em up joke) and while keeping things challenging, it respects a bit the realistic ratio of number of Soviet tanks versus number of Us ones.