bullet penetration

[Victor_S. 0]

I dont know if this has been said and im sure if its not already planned it wont be added, but I hope there is some kind of bullet penetration system. Bullets can go through objects, people, and the slow down with the hardness of the object. Larger ammo will go through more. Again probably already said but would be a nice feature in OFP2

[PainDealer 0]

well if it's not like CS bullet penetration (easily through concrete)

[InqWiper 0]

Quote[/b] ]well if it's not like CS bullet penetration (easily through concrete)

Its more realistic in CS source

[Baphomet 0]

I think ballistics and weapon handling need to be more sophisticated as a whole in OFP 2.

[Madus_Maximus 0]

A ballistics system like in Hidden & Dangerous 2 would be great, with richochet's and stuff aswell as penetration! It's fun shooting some bloke in the chest then hitting his mate behind him in the helmet from the round bouncing off the blokes bones then his heltmet flying into someone else injuring them.

[PainDealer 0]

and he falls against a half broken wall that comes crumbling down causing an endless domino effect

[Baphomet 0]

I would like to see the unique characteristics of bullets accurately modeled.

One of the most unique types of bullets I've ever fired is probably hollowpoint .22 LR and .22 short. They're, from my experience a rather inconsistent round. I've tried various brands and they all seem to behave similarly in an occasionally unperdictable fashion.

I've blown a cantaloupe in half with .22 stingers, yet at the same time I've shot an orange and it didn't do anything except pass through or blow a small chunk off. Same goes for regular .22 LR or Short hollowpoints.

Seeing some variation of performance and consistency based on the characteristics of the rounds used in OFP 2 would be really great in my opinion.

Having a simulation for the decay of muzzle energy and thus damage and penetration as the bullet slows down would make weapons like shotguns so much more realistic and would add depth to the game's combat. It's kind of annoying trying to make a buckshot cartridge in OFP and trying to balance between it's actual range and the effective range that translates to in OFP due to the fact that no matter how fast a bullet is traveling, it's doing the same damage. This has in my opinion resulted in overly or ineffective versions of this type of ammunition depending on what the focus of the development is.

[Silver Falcon 0]

http://club.guns.ru/eng/barnaul.html

something about penetration of russian ammo and accuracy...

[Baphomet 0]

On the subject of bullet penetration. Or at least relevant to it when it concerns a human being. I would like to see more detailed effects when being wounded. Primarily nonlethal impacts that seriously affect the individual.

It's time now for the days when you get shot with a nonlethal wound and not collapse or fall or wince violently in pain, or simply get knocked over in the case of something like a 12 gauge slug. To pass us by.

The natural evolution of realistic shooters is to put the advantage further in the hands of those who get off the first shot instead of allowing this game to be further played like quake or unreal in which a bullet impact has no effect except to alter one's health until they die.

I would like to see aim being seriously affected immediately as one is being shot, simulating the impact of a bullet not simply the after effects in terms of greater weapon sway. So basically if you get hit, your FOV and your body move in such a way that you cannot draw a bead on your opponent.

I would like the ability to knock players down with high caliber weapons regardless of the lethality of the wound.

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

I would like the ability to knock players down with high caliber weapons regardless of the lethality of the wound.

Minor nitpick - Small arms rounds do not impart enough energy to 'knock someone down.' People who are shot fall down because of shock/ trauma, not because a tiny bit of metal has exerted ~450 newtons of force on them.

But broadly, I agree.

[bn880 5]

Penetration; how about a more realistic ballistics model, for example a slowed down bullet doing less damage.

[Cpt. Ionio 0]

I'd like to see AP rounds (from Bradleys and BMP2s) actually penetrate light armour - so you could kill individual units in an M113 for example.

I think I'm right in saying that 30mm AP rounds can penetrate light armour like that..?

[Madus_Maximus 0]

On the subject of bullet penetration. Or at least relevant to it when it concerns a human being. I would like to see more detailed effects when being wounded. Primarily nonlethal impacts that seriously affect the individual.

It's time now for the days when you get shot with a nonlethal wound and not collapse or fall or wince violently in pain, or simply get knocked over in the case of something like a 12 gauge slug. To pass us by.

The natural evolution of realistic shooters is to put the advantage further in the hands of those who get off the first shot instead of allowing this game to be further played like quake or unreal in which a bullet impact has no effect except to alter one's health until they die.

I would like to see aim being seriously affected immediately as one is being shot, simulating the impact of a bullet not simply the after effects in terms of greater weapon sway. So basically if you get hit, your FOV and your body move in such a way that you cannot draw a bead on your opponent.

I would like the ability to knock players down with high caliber weapons regardless of the lethality of the wound.

WGL does much of this to an extent. At least as far as its possible with the current engine. You get a split second black out and go deaf to everything but your heartbeat and lose your aim, which is realistic and very accurate but can be annoying when playing deathmatch or something with others not running WGL.

EDIT: You can also get knocked off your feet with larger calibres, or if it's un expected (think it works out the angle and then makes u drop or something, like shots from the back/side when running).

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

WGL does much of this to an extent. At least as far as its possible with the current engine.

Yes, but.

1) WGL is not standard

2) its by no means perfect nor completely accurate

3) it'd be better if it was built in to the next engine to an extent, or at least an option.

[this fella 0]

On the subject of bullet penetration. Or at least relevant to it when it concerns a human being. I would like to see more detailed effects when being wounded. Primarily nonlethal impacts that seriously affect the individual.

It's time now for the days when you get shot with a nonlethal wound and not collapse or fall or wince violently in pain, or simply get knocked over in the case of something like a 12 gauge slug. To pass us by.

The natural evolution of realistic shooters is to put the advantage further in the hands of those who get off the first shot instead of allowing this game to be further played like quake or unreal in which a bullet impact has no effect except to alter one's health until they die.

I would like to see aim being seriously affected immediately as one is being shot, simulating the impact of a bullet not simply the after effects in terms of greater weapon sway. So basically if you get hit, your FOV and your body move in such a way that you cannot draw a bead on your opponent.

I would like the ability to knock players down with high caliber weapons regardless of the lethality of the wound.

how about muscle modelling so that the damaged muscle stops working making that limb flop around with ragdoll physics. I think this could work out to be fairly realistic

[Cpt. Ionio 0]

how about muscle modelling so that the damaged muscle stops working making that limb flop around with ragdoll physics.  I think this could work out to be fairly realistic

Although, that would work and it would be as cool as hell, wouldn't it be a huge drain on the PC? As far as I know muscle modelling is pretty complex - you'd need a pretty fast processor.

[SD_BOB 10]

Just a quick heads up to the developers if they are thinking of various types of ammunition. Using hollow point ammunition is in violation of The Hague Convention of 1907, Annex to article 23, Paragraph E which outlaws expanding bullets as ".... projectiles or materials calculated to cause unnecessary suffering."

While military personel cannot use this ammunition in a formal conflict against a foreign army, it can be employed for anti-terrorist or anti-criminal operations.

Just a little realism, prob a bit too much but hey its worth a mention,

[PraetorianV 0]

Shadow.D. ^BOB^ your right about the Hague convention however

"In late 1985, the Judge Advocate General wrote an opinion which affirmed that expanding ammo was legal for the US to use in operations "not involving the engagement of the armed forces of another State" (like counter terrorist operations, for example).

In 1990, another opinion permitted the use of the Sierra MatchKing hollowpoint round by US snipers, reasoning that it was not designed to expand or fragment and that the hollowpoint design was a result of the requirements for manufacturing super-accurate bullets.

Then in 1993 Special Operations Command was given the go-ahead by the Judge Advocate General to equip their forces with JHP rounds (Winchester "Black Talon" at the time) for their H&K MK 23 pistols."

excerpt from http://www.ammo-oracle.com/body.htm#milhollow

Many spec-ops use JHPs and such since they are paramilitary units and outside the realm of the Genva convention, and the Hague convention in 1907.

The SS109 or M855 ammo (5.56mm*45mm NATO round) is designed not to expand. However it does tumble and fragment at or above the right velocity (about 2700 fps). This means the round will turn after enter the body at about a 45 degree angle and then fragment inside the body.

The Russians also developed the 5.45*39mm round.

"It has a lead base in its radical boat-tail, a steel penetrator in the center and a hollow tip beneath its FMJ envelope. The 5.45 bullet is nearly twice the length of the 5.56, resulting in superior in-flight characteristics, excellent hard target penetration and devastating wounding ability on human targets." Gunworld January 2004.

As long as the bullet is not designed to expand or fragment the bullet gets by the convention.

[SD_BOB 10]

See all this helpful information can only make OFP 2 a wicked game, cheers for that pretorian most informative

[bravo 6 0]

Quote from other forum:

Video demonstrating how the physics will work

http://www.simhq.com/_technology/video/side_by_side.wmv

[BravoBill 0]

There is no Genva convention in the virtual world so I am not bound by any such agreements. It's total war baby

Also I don't think we will see such a detailed model of damage. Most games use a simple point system. I don't see that this will drastically change in the very near future

[SD_BOB 10]

It may not have much weight on a virtual battlefield bravobill, but what is ofp about if not realism    Id rather it be correct to the smallest details than miss something.

Oh n the reason the Sierra Match King has a hollow tip is because one the lead has been pressed in leaving a small hollow point, a small wirelike punch is put through into the narrow hole to eject the the bullet from the die.

"Useless information for most ppl i know but hey...."

[Sch1sm 0]

I know this may be digging a thread from its grave yet i was talking to brataccas on MSN about bullet penetration and damage. While i was playing FlashFX in an A-10, i spun round in third person camera view to the engines and i suddenly came accross an idea that OFP2 would be ideal for - bullets in engines. I know this may sound a little over the top but in real life something as small as a nut can render an engine useless for weeks until any damage is repaired.

Apache on your tail? Simply turn around and fire a few rounds at its intakes.

Any thoughts?

[Ryujin 0]

That could work...just make it so not every bullet destroys the engine. some thing like only 50% disable or severly damage it ( smokes, less power)