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pogingwapo

US spyplane chickens away

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Uhh... ok? rock.gif

This kind of stuff happens all the time. Sometimes they stay, sometimes they don't. All depends on what they're doing. As far as you know they were just trying to see if they'd scramble a fighter.

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It happens every now and then, but I would not say "All the time"  - not these days anyway between the U.S. and Russia. I certainly think it's newsworthy - though yeah, they're most likely just testing reaction times - just like the Soviet Tu-95's that I used to see flying over Cuba as a kid.

*edit* though the title of the thread seems a bit biased for sure...what the hell else is a P-3 supposed to do in the face of an Su-27? Ram it? (I know, bad joke)

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a P-3 isn't a spy plane.... it's a anti-submarine aircraft, however there is a P-3 variant that is a spy plane or electronic warfare plane. Could it just be that they wondered too far from International airspace and found that out by the fighter that was vectored to intercept them?

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Chickens away?

Maybe P-3 pilot should have tried his dogfighting skills with Su-27 then biggrin_o.gif

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Could it just be that they wondered too far from International airspace and found that out by the fighter that was vectored to intercept them?

Very, very doubtful.

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a P-3 isn't a spy plane.... it's a anti-submarine aircraft, however there is a P-3 variant that is a spy plane or electronic warfare plane. Could it just be that they wondered too far from International airspace and found that out by the fighter that was vectored to intercept them?

Military planes don't rely on ADF or VORs like the olden days. GPS and precise knowledge of location is the name of the game.

Most likely this was an intentional incident.

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*edit* though the title of the thread seems a bit biased for sure...what the hell else is a P-3 supposed to do in the face of an Su-27? Ram it? (I know, bad joke)

Fly over it and open the mine/bomb bay doors? tounge_o.gif

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Could it just be that they wondered too far from International airspace and found that out by the fighter that was vectored to intercept them?

Not a chance - for the reason Akira gave, plus the fact that they did not answer calls from Russian controllers, plus the fact that they knew to stop just short of the border.

Anyway this reminded me of another incident of defences being probed...albeit this one's slightly more dramatic:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=15625

Quote[/b] ]Russian flyover takes Navy by surprise?

Ship personnel say incident more serious threat than Pentagon admits

By Jon E. Dougherty

© 2000 WorldNetDaily.com

A pair of Russian warplanes that made at least three high-speed passes over a U.S. aircraft carrier stationed in the Sea of Japan in October constituted a much more serious threat than the Pentagon has admitted and were easily in a position to destroy the ship if the planes had had hostile intentions, say Navy personnel.

According to reports, a Russian air force Su-24 "Fencer" accompanied by an Su-27 "Flanker" made unopposed passes over the USS Kitty Hawk (CV-63) on Oct. 9, as the carrier was being refueled.

Russian fighters and reconnaissance planes made a second attempt to get close to the carrier on Nov. 9 -- a repeat performance for which the Pentagon, as well as eyewitnesses aboard ship, said the carrier was prepared. But it was the first incident in October that caused alarm.

Pentagon spokesman Kenneth Bacon said during a regularly scheduled press briefing Nov. 30 that the Russian fighters were detected on radar well in advance of their high-speed passes. Naval officers aboard ship who spoke of the incident on the condition of anonymity agreed.

However, at the time the carrier's combat information center alerted the ship's commander, Capt. Allen G. Myers, that the Russian fighters were inbound, none of the carrier's fighters were airborne. The ship carries 85 aircraft, according to Navy figures, and has a crew of over 5,500.

Witnesses said Myers immediately ordered the launch of alert fighters, but the ship's scheduled fighter squadron was on "Alert-30" status -- a minimum launch time of 30 minutes where pilots are "in the ready room" but are not sitting in cockpits waiting to be launched.

Bacon told reporters only that there "may have been a slight delay" in getting the interceptors in the air, explaining that because the Kitty Hawk was taking on fuel, it was not sailing fast enough to launch its aircraft.

One naval officer onboard the ship said, "40 minutes after the CO [commanding officer] called away the alerts," the Russian planes "made a 500-knot, 200-foot pass directly over the tower" of the carrier.

Before the Kitty Hawk could get a single plane airborne, the Russian fighters made two more passes. Worse, witnesses said, the first plane off the deck was an EA-6B Prowler -- a plane used primarily for electronic jamming of an enemy's radar and air defenses, not a fighter capable of intercepting another warplane.

The EA-6B "ended up in a one-versus-one with a Flanker just in front of the ship," one witness said. "The Flanker was all over his a--. He was screaming for help when finally a [F/A-18] Hornet from our sister squadron got off the deck and made the intercept. It was too late."

Naval personnel noted that "the entire crew watched overhead as the Russians made a mockery of our feeble attempt of intercepting them."

The Clinton administration downplayed the incident.

"In neither case did the [Navy] feel that any protest was warranted, and, therefore, no protest was made to the Russians," Bacon said last month.

Moscow, however, considers the incident much more serious, if not a "victory" of sorts, considering Russian aircrews have not overflown a U.S. carrier in three decades.

The mission, which according to Russian military officials who spoke with the BBC was billed as a "top-secret intelligence operation," was specifically designed to test U.S. carrier group defenses.

"To determine [the Kitty Hawk battle group's] complement, their order of forming up, their strength and type of weapons, including the aircraft onboard a carrier, the actions of the duty personnel, any temporary features," were all elements Russian military planners were attempting to gauge, according to Yuriy Ulanov, Russian chief of intelligence for the Far East air force and air defense group, who spoke to the British news agency.

"We went down as low as possible and from the direction of the Japanese coast -- without crossing the Japanese border, of course," said Aleksandr Renev, the reconnaissance mission's squadron commander. "We went over the aircraft carrier. It looked as if they were not expecting us."

Indeed, according to one witness aboard the Kitty Hawk, U.S. personnel on deck likely were surprised.

"Four days [after the flyovers], the Russian intelligence agency e-mailed the CO of the Kitty Hawk and enclosed pictures they had taken of dudes scrambling around the flight deck, trying to get airborne," the witness explained.

Yesterday, Jon Yoshishige, media director for the U.S. Pacific Fleet, downplayed the incident, telling WorldNetDaily it was likely the Russian press was "exaggerating" it for public-relations purposes.

"Reports by some Russian media misrepresent and exaggerate a meeting when several Russian aircraft flew out to collect reconnaissance photographs of USS Kitty Hawk several weeks ago," Yoshishige said in response to an e-mail inquiry about the incident.

"The reports imply that USS Kitty Hawk was unaware or unprepared when in fact the approaching aircraft had been detected, tracked and identified for an extended period of time and then escorted by U.S. aircraft," he said. "It is not uncommon for aircraft from other nations to occasionally approach our ships at sea to conduct routine surveillance. In each of these cases, the aircraft were detected, identified, tracked and escorted if appropriate.

"Our aircraft carriers and ships maintain a high situational awareness of the threats in the air, on and under the sea," Yoshishige said.

His assessment was echoed by Myers when the carrier returned to his home port in Yokosuka, Japan, Nov. 20, after 55 days at sea.

"We had a superb deployment," Myers was quoted as saying by the ship's public affairs department. "We've worked very hard at perfecting our core competency -- conducting carrier operations at sea -- and made great strides in the effort to preserve Hawk for years to come. We are, and will remain, ready for any mission we may be called on to execute."

The BBC, however, said that it was evident by the photographs taken by the Russian jets that there was "panic aboard" when the planes made their over-flights.

"The Kitty Hawk was caught unawares while taking on fuel from a tanker, and the pilots saw the aircraft carrier start to jettison the fuel line to speed up the ship," most likely to launch its interceptor aircraft.

The BBC report also substantiates what witnesses aboard the carrier said regarding the amount of time it took to finally launch the first aircraft.

"It took the Americans some five minutes" after the first flyover "to scramble fighter-interceptors," the BBC said. "The Russian intelligence officers managed to make two passes over the deck of the aircraft carrier and to photograph the Kitty Hawk."

Said Yoshishige, "The Navy uses a wide array of information/intelligence sources to provide the necessary data to determine intentions and classify any potential threats and takes the appropriate actions to address them."

"We regard the Cold War as being over," Bacon said in November. "And although we clearly monitor [Russian] ships and airplanes ... we keep an eye on what the Russians are up to.

"But we are well-trained, and we're ready to deal with these episodes," Bacon added.

Another recent incident suggests that while the Cold War may not be officially "on" again, clearly Moscow is taking a more aggressive stance against the U.S.

In late November, Russia dispatched five strategic bombers to bases in the Far East -- opposite Alaska and near Japan -- "in apparent preparation for training runs to probe U.S. air defenses around Alaska," Agence France-Presse reported Nov. 30.

Pentagon officials may have disclosed the Russian air force movements to let Moscow know the U.S. was still capable of monitoring Russian military activity and was actively doing so.

In response to the deployment of the bombers -- propeller-driven Tu-95 "Bear" aircraft capable of delivering standard bomb loads or conventional and nuclear-tipped cruise missiles -- the Pentagon and Canadian defense ministry officials dispatched F-15 and CF-18 fighters to forward bases in Alaska.

The Pentagon said a pair of Tu-95's was sent to a base at Anadyr on the Bering Sea, while three others were dispatched to a base at Tiksi, on the Laptev Sea in eastern Siberia.

Officials said bombers from those bases flew missions to test U.S. air defenses in March and in September 1999 as well.

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So what? Russia was paying a FBI employee in diamonds and cash to send them state secrets for them and China was caught steeling nuclear weapons secrets from us and yet when we are caught spying on other countries, everybody seems to get a bur up their ass over it? yea, okay that makes a lot of sense. were the hell is that "Stop Global Whinning" avatar at?

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So what? Russia was paying a FBI employee in diamonds and cash to send them state secrets for them and China was caught steeling nuclear weapons secrets from us and yet when we are caught spying on other countries, everybody seems to get a bur up their ass over it? yea, okay that makes a lot of sense. were the hell is that "Stop Global Whinning" avatar at?

ehmmmm.....read this thread again and check again to see if anyone except you is getting "a bur up their ass over it" Newsworthy - yes. Interesting - yes. Crime/international incident/WWIII/Big Freakin Deal - no.... rock.gif

*edit* though like I said before, maybe the title of the thread is a bit confrontational and likely to cause such knee jerk reactions - maybe a mod could tone it down?

But Red Oct, I bet you that if an Su-24 was detected doing recon right off Alaska, it would make the news, and you would not react to it being posted as you did with this.

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If i was a P3 pilot and i saw an SU-27 coming towards me i would be like "Oh Shit" and fly my ass on out of there as well.

This reminds me of Indiana Jones movie where he comes across a bad guy twirling some swords like crazy and he takes out his revolver and shoots the guy.

You just don't bring a knife to a gunfight.

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This reminds me of Indiana Jones movie where he comes across a bad guy twirling some swords like crazy and he takes out his revolver and shoots the guy.

You just don't bring a knife to a gunfight.

Bit OT but: IIRC, the script originally called for Indiana to use his whip to disarm the bad guy - but after some hours of unsuccessful takes, one of the crew muttered "why doesn't he just shoot the guy" - and the director took to the idea smile_o.gif.

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Well, it was one of the funniest parts of the entire trilogy.

OK back to the topic now wink_o.gif

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Anyways, there's tons of funny intercept stories out there - my favourite, and one I can't seem to find anymore, involves the RCAF intercepting and photographing some TU-95's...and once the photos were developed noticing that a crewman in the rear dorsal bubble of one(pic) had been sitting there with a prono mag grinning from ear to ear at the interceptors taking his picture.

Here's another good one:

Quote[/b] ]During joint exercise in Germany an USAF and German F-4 are practicing low-level in Southern Germany near the Swiss Border. As they approach the border they hear a call on Guard "Unidentified aircraft nearing Swiss border, identify yourself". Both pilots maintain radio silence and do not answer. The Swiss repeat the transmission twice without success. The next transmission reads: "Unidentified aircraft, identify yourself or we will send our interceptors". After which the German pilot replies: "Will you send one or both of them"

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Anyways, there's tons of funny intercept stories out there - my favourite, and one I can't seem to find anymore, involves the RCAF intercepting and photographing some TU-95's...and once the photos were developed noticing that a crewman in the rear dorsal bubble of one(pic) had been sitting there with a prono mag grinning from ear to ear at the interceptors taking his picture.

Here's another good one:

Quote[/b] ]During joint exercise in Germany an USAF and German F-4 are practicing low-level in Southern Germany near the Swiss Border. As they approach the border they hear a call on Guard "Unidentified aircraft nearing Swiss border, identify yourself". Both pilots maintain radio silence and do not answer. The Swiss repeat the transmission twice without success. The next transmission reads: "Unidentified aircraft, identify yourself or we will send our interceptors". After which the German pilot replies: "Will you send one or both of them"

haha, yeah that's a good one biggrin_o.gif

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But Red Oct, I bet you that if an Su-24 was detected doing recon right off Alaska, it would make the news, and you would not react to it being posted as you did with this.

thats not what pisses me off. we are spied on from other countries all the time like Isreal, Russia, China, or even maybe Britian. we go and plant a few wire taps in Kofi Annan's office and we are accused of trying to take over the world.

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Quote[/b] ]MOSCOW (AP) - President Vladimir Putin said Wednesday that Russia is developing a new form of nuclear missile unlike those held by other countries, news agencies reported.

link

I wonder if this will increase the United States' curiousity about what's going on over there.

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thats not what pisses me off. we are spied on from other countries all the time like Isreal, Russia, China, or even maybe Britian. we go and plant a few wire taps in Kofi Annan's office and we are accused of trying to take over the world.

Aren't you? rock.gif

Besides, that leaves 190 countries (maybe 189) that aren't spying on you. tounge_o.gif

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heh crazy americans smile_o.gif I'd have just gone passive sensor wise and let the flanker come. Good way to get ELINT data that. It's not like he is going to shoot you or something, pbb take some pictures, wobble his wings a bit and back to homebase. Now if it were the chinese airforce ..... wink_o.gif

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