USA Politics Thread - *No gun debate*

[TrevorOfCrete 0]

america is made up of basiccly loads of differnt groups of immigrants. I genuinly cant see how any american has a problem with it.

[billybob2002 0]

america is made up of basiccly loads of differnt groups of immigrants.  I genuinly cant see how any american has a problem with it.

The problem is illegal, not legal, immigration. You can't have uncontrolled immigration and expect that everything will be fine.

[TrevorOfCrete 0]

true, but the media hype it up beyone belief. In the UK the media has a fit over polish immigrants. Infact, if it was for them working and contributing to our economy then would be in a worse situation. Immigrents (legal) significantly contribute to developed countires economys, they do the work that natives are not willing to do.

[billybob2002 0]

true, but the media hype it up beyone belief.  In the UK the media has a fit over polish immigrants.  Infact, if it was for them working and contributing to our economy then would be in a worse situation.  Immigrents (legal) significantly contribute to developed countires economys, they do the work that natives are not willing to do.

Legal immigration is fine and all but illegal immigration is a different beast that is changing my nation, the United States, for real.

[Supah 0]

true, but the media hype it up beyone belief.  In the UK the media has a fit over polish immigrants.  Infact, if it was for them working and contributing to our economy then would be in a worse situation.  Immigrents (legal) significantly contribute to developed countires economys, they do the work that natives are not willing to do.

Legal immigration is fine and all but illegal immigration is a different beast that is changing my nation, the United States, for real.

The best way to stop the tide from the south is to improve the situation in the countries from which these people originate. You can try to just stop them coming into the country but that is "Mopping with the tap open" to rougly translate a dutch saying I think it's almost undoable to stop this the old fashioned way. Europe has the same problem with African immigrants from the south across the med.

[Sertorius 0]

Quote[/b] ]The best way to stop the tide from the south is to improve the situation in the countries from which these people originate.

And how, exactly, is the US going to "improve" Mexico's government? The massive corruption can't be eliminated without major reform, and the officials who profit from the corruption aren't about to attack that same corruption. Since Mexico is essentially flushing its poor and dissatisfied into the US before they can make trouble, then perhaps tightening the border will keep more of those dissatisfied Mexicans in their own country, where they could create some internal change. Otherwise, the US would have to resort to external change, and I highly doubt that would be an especially pretty spectacle (Remember what happened when the US tried to change Iraq's government?).

Quote[/b] ]You can try to just stop them coming into the country but that is "Mopping with the tap open"

Stopping illegal immigration is impossible, but we can certainly slow it down.

[Supah 0]

Quote[/b] ]The best way to stop the tide from the south is to improve the situation in the countries from which these people originate.

And how, exactly, is the US going to "improve" Mexico's government? The massive corruption can't be eliminated without major reform, and the officials who profit from the corruption aren't about to attack that same corruption. Since Mexico is essentially flushing its poor and dissatisfied into the US before they can make trouble, then perhaps tightening the border will keep more of those dissatisfied Mexicans in their own country, where they could create some internal change. Otherwise, the US would have to resort to external change, and I highly doubt that would be an especially pretty spectacle (Remember what happened when the US tried to change Iraq's government?).

Quote[/b] ]You can try to just stop them coming into the country but that is "Mopping with the tap open"

Stopping illegal immigration is impossible, but we can certainly slow it down.

Well it is not the US's job to reform the mexican government but I do think it would be good to look at ways to encourage reform. There is no other way to put a serious dent in illegal immigration in my opinion, also helping mexico's economy so there is less unemployment but also that all layers of the community profit from this growth and not just the people at the top is very important. I fully agree with you though that there should be measures taken to stop illegal immigration along the border, even if it doesnt stop all the immigration it might still demotivated would-be immigrants.

[TrevorOfCrete 0]

Quote[/b] ]The best way to stop the tide from the south is to improve the situation in the countries from which these people originate.

And how, exactly, is the US going to "improve" Mexico's government? The massive corruption can't be eliminated without major reform, and the officials who profit from the corruption aren't about to attack that same corruption. Since Mexico is essentially flushing its poor and dissatisfied into the US before they can make trouble, then perhaps tightening the border will keep more of those dissatisfied Mexicans in their own country, where they could create some internal change. Otherwise, the US would have to resort to external change, and I highly doubt that would be an especially pretty spectacle (Remember what happened when the US tried to change Iraq's government?).

Quote[/b] ]You can try to just stop them coming into the country but that is "Mopping with the tap open"

Stopping illegal immigration is impossible, but we can certainly slow it down.

thats the problem, americans are always looking to say how other peoples democracy is bad. Perhaps it wouldnt be so corrupt if it wasnt in such debt and the country had less problems. and also keep in mind, the american government is by no way corruption free, big corporations have a massive influence. im not a conspiacy nut , its just true in most countires.

[HotShot 0]

What ever happened to Bush's Guest Worker proposals? I dont know any details on it, but the idea seemed good. Farmers get their cheap labour and migrants are only there temporarily so not putting as much of a strain on resources.

Also, i think this was in Bush's proposal as well, illegal immigrants need to have the opportunity to become legal - like an ammnisty - so they can pay taxes to support the host country, plus the immigrants will be able to get proper jobs, not end up selling DVD's off the streets for a Gangster.

[TrevorOfCrete 0]

the problem with that is america still over produces and there is large amounts of inflation for cropts. Thats why the goverment still subsideses thousands of farmers to burn there crops/livestock. Alot of farmers cant afford even cheap labour at the moment.

[Sertorius 0]

Quote[/b] ]thats the problem, americans are always looking to say how other peoples democracy is bad.

Accusing me of jingoism is pretty absurd. I simply stated that Mexico is extremely corrupt, and that corruption is an important factor in suppressing Mexico's economic growth. Economic growth is suppressed when the government runs companies into the ground, and you can look at the state-run company Pemex as an example. That company currently makes 77 billion in revenue, but because the government chisels it for as much tax money as possible (60% of its total revenue is paid in various royalties and taxes), the company is in debt. It's not as if Mexico is lacking in oil wells, and if the government took some of the chains of Pemex, it could grow and provide both more jobs and more tax income.

Quote[/b] ]Perhaps it wouldnt be so corrupt if it wasnt in such debt and the country had less problems.

That's just nonsensical. The country's debt and other problems have much to do with the corruption, in fact the corruption is an important cause of those problems. In essence, you just said that Mexico would be less corrupt if it was less corrupt.

Quote[/b] ]and also keep in mind, the american government is by no way corruption free, big corporations have a massive influence.

Look, when did I ever start implying that the US economy was clean and corruption free? Of course it isn't corruption free, but as far as I know, it is less corrupt. Even if the companies were as corrupt, at least they're growing and turning profits. You can say what you will about Exxon Mobil, but it's turning a tidy profit, producing lots of jobs, and providing plenty of tax money (And perhaps a few "gifts" for certain Texan politicians).

Quote[/b] ]What ever happened to Bush's Guest Worker proposals? I dont know any details on it, but the idea seemed good. Farmers get their cheap labour and migrants are only there temporarily so not putting as much of a strain on resources.

I think that proposal has become a casualty in the debate. By this point, many Republicans have reached such a level of discontent with Bush's perceived weakness on immigration that they will not tolerate any proposal until border controls are strengthened.

[HotShot 0]

Marine Corps to start involuntary troop recalls

The US Marines are recalling about 1,200 ex-Marines (roughly half what they are allowed) who are now on the reserves.

Quote[/b] ]The authorization limits the number of Marines who can be activated involuntarily to no more 2,500 at any one time, out of a pool of about 35,000, Stratton said. The length of each activated service member's duty is capped at 24 months but will likely last 12 to 18 months.

Under a general contract, a Marine serves four years on active duty and four in reserve.

Interesting news. Very bad news for many people though. Does anyone know how they select who they recall (e.g. those that have only left the service recently first)?

I can't see involuntary call up's going any further than this though (to full out conscription), but maybe something like this will be activated in other branches.

[TrevorOfCrete 0]

wow marines dont serve more than four years? How do they build up combat experiance?

[HotShot 0]

They can serve longer if they want, but are under contract to serve a minimum of 4 years.

[TrevorOfCrete 0]

ahh ok cool

[Sertorius 0]

Quote[/b] ]Study reveals huge U.S. oil-shale field

WASHINGTON — The United States has an oil reserve at least three times that of Saudi Arabia locked in oil-shale deposits beneath federal land in Colorado, Utah and Wyoming, according to a study released yesterday.

Full Article

[red oct 2]

Quote[/b] ]Study reveals huge U.S. oil-shale field

WASHINGTON — The United States has an oil reserve at least three times that of Saudi Arabia locked in oil-shale deposits beneath federal land in Colorado, Utah and Wyoming, according to a study released yesterday.

Full Article

i heard about that some time ago. problem is its not quite ready for tapping (about another million years to go). but as the article said some company is planning to see if they can extract the oil by heating the shale to very high tempratures and pressurizing it and some other technical stuff. i wouldn't expect it to drop fuel prices though.

[martinovic 0]

Well, it depends on how long ago you've heard about it i guess. Currently they are making serious efforts at getting that oil, if it becomes cost efficient then booya! $$ *ching ching ching ching* $$ Jackpot! There goes the electric car out the window.

[walker 0]

Hi all

Oil Shale deposits exist all over the world. Many being easier to acces than those in Colorado, Utah and Wyoming but extracting them is very hard. Several countries such as Brasil where it is easier to extract, have been using oil shales for decades but the business is in terminal decline due to the economic cost (you have to use over one third the energy it produces in order to extract) and vast polution problems.

There are currently a lot of Spam/Con emails floating around asking you to invest in them. Most come from Nigeria.

The cost of extraction for Oil Shale is exhorbatant running at over $40 a barrel.

The current cost of producing a barrel of normal oil is on average about $15.50 depending which oil from where.

Quote[/b] ]...During the oil crisis of the 1970s, people thought that oil supplies were peaking, expected oil prices to be around seventy dollars a barrel for some time to come, and invested huge amounts of money in refining oil shale — money that they lost. Because of the astronomical sums that were lost last time around there is considerable reluctance to invest in oil shale this time around. Investors are waiting to see if oil prices really will remain this high (in August 2006: US$75 a barrel)....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_shale

Follow the link for the full article

Oil Shales would in any case be third or fourth in line as a source of oil after Extra Heavy Oil and Tar sands of the type found in Canada and the Orinoco in Vezuela. Which are at least economic in the current climate. The cost of productionis is less than $15 per barrel due to new techniques. Follow the link below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-conventional_oil

The next major problem is the polution, Oil Shale combines the worst aspects open cast mining with the carcenogenic affects heavy metal polution. To do it those states would have to be turned into unlivable areas for decades. I am not sure how many Americans want to turn the wilds of Wyoming into one vast open cast mine full of stinking gue.

Of course the real clue as to when this becomes of interest is when the oil companies invest heavily in it. Which they are not doing. Quite the reverse I hear they are getting rid of their shares in Oil Shales same as they did in the 70s.

Kind Regards Walker

[TrevorOfCrete 0]

Well, it depends on how long ago you've heard about it i guess. Currently they are making serious efforts at getting that oil, if it becomes cost efficient then booya! $$ *ching ching ching ching* $$ Jackpot! There goes the electric car out the window.

a dark day for the world indeed. Now the fate of the human race is sealed. If only americans listened to Al Gore instead of driving there kids to school in 5 litre ford pickups.

[scousejedi 0]

We should dump crude oil and transfer our energies in using renewable sources. I propose a world wide switch to whale oil. As long as we properly farm the species we have fuel for all eternity.

Anyone know how many whales it would take per year to sate the worlds demand for gasoline?

As a by product we could send the whale flesh to 3rd world country to alleviate famine / disaster victims.

Also just think how the scrimshaw industry would benefit.

[TrevorOfCrete 0]

whats rong with barley? keep the hippy..cough...vegitarians happy.

[scousejedi 0]

Whats wrong with Barley???

OMG - imagine, a small boat, wild seas and up on the bow a hunter, quiet, watching wielding a harpoon, waiting, waiting ready to feed his people.

You want to exchange the primeordial relationship between man and beast for this: Man vs Field.....

Shame..

Avast ye... Barley to Starboard

[Daniel 0]

Brilliant.

[TrevorOfCrete 0]

maybe they should try eating barley instead of fish?