Canadian Submarine in Distress

[Badgerboy 0]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3717906.stm

Quote[/b] ]Submarine issues call for help

 

A major rescue effort has been launched off Ireland after a Canadian submarine asked for assistance.

The Canadian Defence Force said HMCS Chicoutimi had suffered a mechanical failure and its crew were all safe.

A Royal Air Force Nimrod has been diverted to the area and a search and rescue helicopter from the Royal Navy base in Ayrshire is on its way.

The submarine, which was bought from Britain, is not nuclear-powered or carrying nuclear warheads.

The request for assistance came from the vessel some 100 miles north west of Ireland.

Neil Smith, a spokesman for the Faslane submarine base on the Clyde, said that Royal Fleet Auxiliary vessel Wave Knight had been turned round and was on its way to the scene.

A Type 23 frigate, HMS Montrose, is being sent from Faslane, accompanied by tug boat support.

"At this moment in time we don't have the exact details," said Mr Smith.

"We are in communication with the people on board.

"We are doing everything we can to assist them, and at this moment in time my colleagues are working hard to make sure that happens as quickly as possible."

Uh oh, I wonder if its one of those diesel deathtraps the Royal Navy sold the Canadians a few years back.

No real news yet, it just popped up on my desktop.

EDIT - Some more details updated. Yes, it is Ex RN!

(Not believed to carry nukes..... It's Canadian! )

[DracoPaladore 0]

What would a Canadian submarine be doing of the caost of Ireland?

Better yet, how did it survive the trip?

[Badgerboy 0]

What would a Canadian submarine be doing of the caost of Ireland?

Better yet, how did it survive the trip?

It might have been on a joint exercise in the UK, or perhaps just patrolling.

Diesel submarines can travel pretty much anywhere, its just their range which is short compared to a nuclear sub. Remember, the Germans had U-Boats operating all over the Atlanic, and the guld of Mexico in WWII, and US/JAP subs regulary moved around the pacific,

[havocsquad 0]

Yeah, but U-Boats were designed to operate over VERY long ranges from home port.

Most World War II submarines in my view were walking gas tanks. I'm suprised how many submarines came back in one piece after getting depth charged to death (Allies or Axis).

All a sub like the Collins SSK would need would be a refueling ship about mid-atlantic to top its tanks off, then head to the UK.

Most modern Diesel subs currently are tailored to shallow water patrol and ASW sentry units to prevent enemy subs from infilitrating territorial waters.

Most Diesel subs are defensive by nature and only truely take on an offensive role when they can operate long range (+6000 miles)

[Tovarish 0]

Yes, it is one of the death traps we bought from the UK. I actually read a newspaper article about this particular sub. It was just named at the beginning of october.

Quote[/b] ]Canada gets final boat from Brits

HALIFAX -- The Canadian navy has taken possession of its fourth and final Victoria-class submarine from the British navy. However, the process of equipping the boat with Canadian torpedo and fire-control systems will be delayed, as the navy's behind-schedule submarine program struggles to get up to speed. A renaming ceremony was held yesterday at a military base in Faslane, Scotland, as the submarine HMS Upholder became HMCS Chicoutimi, the latest addition to the Canadian fleet.

"It signifies the complete transfer of the submarine program to Canada," said Rear Admiral Dan McNeil, commander of Maritime Force Atlantic, in a phone interview after the ceremony.

Quote[/b] ]October 3, 2004

Tax dollars drowning in sub sinkhole

Tab for problem-plagued fleet approaching $1B

By MARCO FORTIER, CP

CANADA'S SUBMARINE program is sinking deeper in red ink, a Sun Media investigation reveals. The bill for four used submarines acquired by the Department of National Defence in 1998 is quietly climbing toward $1 billion.

Even though only one of the submarines bought from the British navy is actually patrolling the ocean, the cost of the project has reached $897 million -- 20% more than the estimated cost of $750 million, according to National Defence figures.

A series of technical flaws, equipment breakdowns and delays in delivery of the submarines is inflating the bill, say documents obtained under the Freedom of Information Act.

LEAKY, RUSTY

The Sun also learned that National Defence had to purchase 5,500 used replacement parts that were not included in the initial deal with the British navy. The cost of those parts was censored in the documents.

The list of deficiencies is staggering. Leaks. Rust. Broken-down instrument panels. Blocked rudders. A communications blackout. Rotten decks.

Corrosion problems and turbine breakdowns on the HMCS Chicoutimi -- which is still being repaired in the U.K. but did have its naming ceremony yesterday -- have made headlines.

But a series of less spectacular but nonetheless worrisome failures have also struck the fleet.

The four subs' control panels, which register navigation data, are outdated and don't function properly. The apparatus is so old that replacement parts no longer exist, an incident report notes.

"This equipment is out of date and no support is offered. It should be replaced by modern equipment," the report says.

'SAFETY RISK'

Crews face a "potential safety risk," the report says, adding the subs' computer system "freezes" and loses critical data.

When the subs' equipment works, it does so at a speed that "is unsuitable for deployment under operational conditions."

To add to the crews' worries, crucial parts of HMCS Victoria's sonar have shown signs of "excessive corrosion." It's the "main sonar for avoiding collisions," according to an incident report from August 2002.

"If the rust pierces the connectors, water could make contact with the electrical system and ... degrade the performance of the sonar," a lieutenant wrote.

SUB-STANDARD

Canada agreed to buy four British Victoria-class submarines in 1998 for $750 million. Six years later, the ill-starred fleet remains plagued by serious mechanical problems:

- HMCS Windsor, based at Halifax, is the only one of the four subs patrolling the ocean. Attempts at going out to sea were successful earlier this year.

- HMCS Corner Brook is undergoing repairs in Halifax. Reports indicate repairs are more complex than expected and will take months.

- HMCS Victoria is moored at its Esquimalt, B.C. base, where it will undergo testing at sea this fall. Torpedo tests are on the agenda.

- HMCS Chicoutimi remains docked in Britain. Corrosion problems and turbine breakdowns have delayed delivery of the sub for three years.

Wow, it's been ours for a whole 3 days and it needs rescuing

Great purchase!

[tankieboy 0]

lol, chears easy.

[SpongeBob 0]

Canada's subs should stick with patrolling the deep waters of the West Edmonton mall.

[theavonlady 2]

Wow, it's been ours for a whole 3 days and it needs rescuing

Great purchase!

I'm sure it's a triviality that can be easily fixed.

Like lose mosquito netting window screens.

[Tovarish 0]

Wow, it's been ours for a whole 3 days and it needs rescuing

Great purchase!

I'm sure it's a triviality that can be easily fixed.

Like lose mosquito netting window screens.

Or a shortage of garbage bags and hockey sticks

Quote[/b] ]But during the trip the submarine leaked hydraulic fluid, the radar mast leaked and had to be fixed with masking tape and a rubbish bag, the sonar broke and another faulty piece of equipment had to be unjammed with a hockey stick.

A British Navy spokesman told BBC News Online: "This is predominantly a matter for the Canadians.

"The Canadians accepted this submarine in October."

He said they had trained the transfer crew under Canadian command and once it sailed into Canada, it was a matter for that country.

[theavonlady 2]

This would make a great Canadian movie script to compete with Apollo 13.

UPDATE: Looking through the news items, it's clear that this sub IS carrying knucks.

[bn880 5]

I'm suprised how many submarines came back in one piece after getting depth charged to death (Allies or Axis).

Don't be surprized, when you organize well and have good engineers/scientists you can do a heck of a job during war. People really did their best to get these things out there, unlike work that is done on "fast leisure" in a business like manner.

Do you get what I mean though, when people want they can do good work, but you don't see it that often. The recent X-prize winner is an example of what people can do if they really want to. With good talent, organization, funding etc.

[bn880 5]

Oh by the way, I have no idea why Canada bought those used submarines. It is the biggest waste of money, one of actually.

You see people like me can't get military analyst jobs, those are reserved for good ass kissing firends, but at least I would not be dumb enough to invest in diesel submarines, used, in 2000. And to think that the man who took that decision probaby made over $200,000CDN in a year.

[FSPilot 0]

Sure hope they all make it out OK.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]High winds and heavy seas are hampering efforts to rescue a Canadian submarine drifting without power 100 kilometres off the north-west coast of Ireland.

Nine crew members were injured in a fire on board the HMCS Chicoutimi.

The accident happened as the submarine was travelling to Canada after being officially handed over to its new owners by the Royal Navy on Saturday.

Two Navy ships, tugs and a Sea King helicopter are heading to the vessel, which is to be towed back to Scotland.

A Canadian Navy spokesman said: "The problem is the seas are extremely treacherous, with six to eight-metre waves and winds of 35 knots.

"It is going to be extremely difficult for the ships to make it out there, and the sailors are getting tossed to and fro something crazy."

The Ministry of Defence said there were no plans to remove any of the 57-strong crew from the Chicoutimi.

Irish Minister for Defence Willie O'Dea said the LE Roisin, which was on routine patrol off the north-west coast, was due to arrive in the area around midnight BST.

A Royal Air Force Nimrod from Kinloss has also been diverted and a Royal Navy Sea King helicopter sent from HMS Gannet in Ayrshire.

The Royal Fleet Auxiliary's Wave Knight, Royal Navy vessels HMS Montrose - a Type 23 frigate from Faslane - and HMS Marlborough from Devonport in Plymouth, and two tugs - an MoD boat from Faslane and a Maritime Coastguard Agency vessel from Shetland - are also trying to reach HMCS Chicoutimi and tow it back to Faslane.

A Canadian Forces spokeswoman confirmed the crew was safe and said relatives were being informed.

Captain Holy Apostoliuk said: "The submarine, while transiting from UK to Canada, experienced a fire while at sea off the coast of Ireland.

"The submarine and its Canadian crew left Faslane on 4 October and was en route to Halifax, Nova Scotia, when the fire occurred.

"The cause of the fire has not been determined but it was contained and is now out."

She said the sailors who experienced smoke inhalation were being treated on board and did not need to be evacuated.

Turned round

The alarm was raised by the captain of the submarine, which is not nuclear-powered or carrying nuclear warheads, shortly after 1500 BST on Tuesday.

A spokeswoman for the Faslane submarine base in Scotland said the electrical fire on board the Chicoutimi had resulted in smoke throughout the vessel.

The Chicoutimi was originally built for the Royal Navy, when it was known as HMS Upholder.

It was bought by the Canadian Navy, where it is now one of four Victoria Class long-range patrol submarines.

Canadian MP Bill Casey said there had been a series of problems with the vessels.

"They have experienced overheating, they have experienced leaks, they have experienced rust," he said.

"They have had to have the exhaust valves replaced, which is a huge valve in the middle of the boat which redirects the exhaust whether the boat is submerged, partially-submerged or on the surface.

"They have been plagued by a lot of problems."

Handed over

The Chicoutimi was renamed and formally handed over to its new owners during a ceremony at Faslane on Saturday.

The vessel had been due to arrive in Halifax, on the east coast of Canada, on 18 October.

This is the second time in a month the Chicoutimi has been involved in a rescue at sea.

Last month, she was involved in an incident when an ocean-going tug boat accompanying it ran aground off Skye during sea trials.

Eight sailors were taken off the tug by Portree lifeboat.

Winds hampering submarine rescue

[tankieboy 0]

Canada's subs should stick with patrolling the deep waters of the West Edmonton mall.

[imghttp://www.badmileage.com/alberta/Images/West%20Edmonton%20Mall%20Submarine.JPG/img]

I love West Edmonton mall! Spent lots of time there.

[ozanzac 0]

Most Diesel subs are defensive by nature and only truely take on an offensive role when they can operate long range (+6000 miles)

You'd be suprised. Diesel subs make quieter (thus better)Hunter Killers than Nuclear power subs.

[pogingwapo 0]

Are British submarines crap?

[Tovarish 0]

Are British submarines crap?

ANY subs are crap when they are so old replacement parts no longer exist for some of their systems. These things are way past their best before date. Whoever decided to buy these subs should be made captain of one of them.

[brgnorway 0]

Most Diesel subs are defensive by nature and only truely take on an offensive role when they can operate long range (+6000 miles)

You'd be suprised. Diesel subs make quieter (thus better)Hunter Killers than Nuclear power subs.

That's correct! Apart from a disadvantage concerning range they are very effective. People seem to believe that diesel engines make noise - and they do of course - but in combat mode they switch to battery power. This silence combined with a very small sonar signature (their small size) makes modern diesel subs very effective. The new german built norwegian subs are among the best.

[hardrock 1]

Are British submarines crap?

ANY subs are crap when they are so old replacement parts no longer exist for some of their systems. These things are way past their best before date. Whoever decided to buy these subs should be made captain of one of them.

Do you Canadians never look at the expiry date on the cover?

[DracoPaladore 0]

Are British submarines crap?

ANY subs are crap when they are so old replacement parts no longer exist for some of their systems. These things are way past their best before date. Whoever decided to buy these subs should be made captain of one of them.

Do you Canadians never look at the expiry date on the cover?

We do.

But our politicians keep thinking "It's still good."

[cozza 24]

just like the simpson's episode where Sideshow Bob was gonna blow up Springfield with a A-BOMB.

Quote[/b] ]Best before November 1956.

"Damn Bob. There were plently of new bombs but You had to go for the Retro 50's charm"-Sideshow Bob

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]The new german built norwegian subs are among the best.

And we can even top it with our new hydrogen gas cell powered sub that has no heat emission at all and runs supersilent, the U 31 prototype:

The first of 4 ordered Class 212 A subs are stealthed subs by shape, drive and lenght of underwater time.

Their method of generating power is unique on the world and therefore a technological revolution within the submarine sector.

Some technical data:

Overwater speed: 11 knots

Underwater speed: 16 knots

Range: 15.000 km´s

Additional Diesel - electro drive for high speed maneuvers.

Weapons: Torpedos "Seehecht" that are able to dive and operate in depths down to 300 m ´s. This makes the 7m long Seehecht torpedos a dangerous Anti-Sub weapon as well as Anti-surface targets weapon.

It will also get the "Triton" system that enables the 212A class to shoot down enemy helicopters from underwater.

The 212A class is already a top-seller.

[Badgerboy 0]

Are British submarines crap?

Nah, we off loaded all the old crap ones on poor Canada. I believe a Navy official was quoted as saying, 'well they were sold as seen, so its not our problem anymore'

Most of the British Submarine fleet is now nuclear, including the Trident submarines and the new hunter killer class that was launched. (British and American submarines share quite a bit of tech between them)

[DracoPaladore 0]

One canadian crewmember has died