Putin Moves to Centralize Authority

[edc 0]

Putin kind of scares me. Wasn't he doing some things with government control of some of the media before these recent round or terrorist attacks started? And didn't one of his competitors in the last election sort of "disappear"(don't know for sure, that's just what I think I heard a while back).

[IceFire 0]

I have heard rumors of him doing things like rigging elections.

As for if one of his past competitors did "disappear", well in a country like the Russian Federation, it shouln't be a surprise.

I think Putins methods are the best for implementing national security and the safety of average russians. Sometimes you need some throat slitting to ensure that things fall into place in a country so bungled by incompetent beaurocrats.

[Homefry 0]

I think the attacks on the school are just being used as a way for this to be implemented... a streamlined way to effieciently operate is one thing, removing the safeguards of a democratic nation isn't the way to do it.

[IceFire 0]

I wouln't call Russia an ideal democratic nation. And nationalism is a greater aspect in Russia than rest of the western world. Sure us Americans would be outraged if anyone tried to take away any of our rights, but not everyone in the globe shares the same values.

Such a more streamlined government would be fitting for a country such as Russia, especially when it is facing the enemies it currently is.

[ralphwiggum 6]

but since American democracy is good, as shown in Iraq, Russia should adopt it, right?

[Supah 0]

Sometimes you need some throat slitting to ensure that things fall into place in a country so bungled by incompetent beaurocrats.

You think murdering people who don't agree with you is a ok way to solve problems in a "democracy"? Been eating a bit too much of those freedom fries haven't you?

[kerosene 0]

Once Putin takes away peoples rights they wont come back, he temporarily dissappereared one of his political rivals (claimed he was kidnapped and drugged), he drugs, poisons and assassinates journalists if he cant shut them up by getting them fired.

Reducing peoples voting rights and freedom of the press does not make you a "strong leader"

SInce they dont have a free media or sometimes even the freedom to say what they want whats makes you such an expert on what Russians want?

He condemns chechen seperatists and yet russia supports russian nationalists/seperatists in former soviet states.

Denial of what got them into their current situation and refusal to allow the russian public to be fully informed of what happens in their country wont improve the situation of russians, you just end up with an unaccountable government that will now be well placed to take away even more rights when they become a nuisance.

You live in the U.S but you think its okay for foreign leaders to "show strength" by kidnap and murder? but wtf, as long as they only do it to foreigners right?

[joltan 0]

[sarcasm]You know, the good thing about foreigners is that they are usually far away and quite irelevant.[/sarcasm]

[Leveler 0]

So what is the general consensus? Is he doing it for himself and his party or does he have other aims as well? How is Russia doing at this moment economically and militarily?

[ozanzac 0]

A move to centralize authority may not be such a bad thing......afterall, how many terrorist attacks were recorded whilst the Iron Curtain shielded the soviet union?

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]how many terrorist attacks were recorded whilst the Iron Curtain shielded the soviet union

YOu gave yourself the answer by mentioning the iron curtain.

There have been attacks but

a) they were not classified as terrorist acts

b) the news didn´t spread because of censorship

To b. We see a revival of censorship in russia today. Journalists are hindered and even imprisoned in Russia today for reports they do. The 2 official government channels didn´t even report about the hostage situation and the numbers they spread were way off. Iswestia (i guess ) boss has been fired because he critically reported about the hostage situation.

This is how it looks in Russia today. And if Putin goes on it will get much more bader for the people who are living there.

[-33ker 0]

I don't like this at all! Russia never was a democratic country and it never will be! Thank god I'm out of there for quite a long time now!

[Tovarish 0]

heh, well, at least my family's in the Ukraine. Although from what I hear, the communist party's been regaining ground there. Looks like reverse perestroika.

[Foxtrot87 0]

Quote[/b] ]Once Putin takes away peoples rights they wont come back, he temporarily dissappereared one of his political rivals (claimed he was kidnapped and drugged), he drugs, poisons and assassinates journalists if he cant shut them up by getting them fired.

Where have you read that? Give us the link please

Quote[/b] ]SInce they dont have a free media or sometimes even the freedom to say what they want whats makes you such an expert on what Russians want?

We don't have a free media but i can still say what i want. At least on the street. At least when there is no police around

Quote[/b] ]He condemns chechen seperatists and yet russia supports russian nationalists/seperatists in former soviet states.

You're right, our government supports Russian people in former soviet states (i don't think it'll go further than just a support "on paper" only). I'm against Chechen rebels just like our government. But we can't give them their own state, that's impossible now (and that should be discussed in another thread).

Quote[/b] ]Denial of what got them into their current situation and refusal to allow the russian public to be fully informed of what happens in their country wont improve the situation of russians, you just end up with an unaccountable government that will now be well placed to take away even more rights

I agree with you. But you know, today at the university i heard students talk about these new reforms and they were strongly criticizing them, they couldn't understand how these reforms would help us deal with terrorism. So nothing's lost yet

Quote[/b] ]The 2 official government channels didn´t even report about the hostage situation and the numbers they spread were way off.

If we both mean same channels then i can say that they did show the news about Beslan! Though i think they lied about the number of wounded there They also lied at first about the number of hostages in that school. I can't understand what's happening with our government officials.

Quote[/b] ]I don't like this at all! Russia never was a democratic country and it never will be! Thank god I'm out of there for quite a long time now!

Are you from Russia?

[DarkLight 0]

[sarcasm]You know, the good thing about foreigners is that they are usually far away and quite irelevant.[/sarcasm]

It's funny cuz it's true!

[no sarcasm]

[EiZei 0]

A move to centralize authority may not be such a bad thing......afterall, how many terrorist attacks were recorded whilst the Iron Curtain shielded the soviet union?

For every schoolchild killed in Beslan you can find 10 people killed for their opinions in the USSR. Terror attacks are far less horrible choice than authoritianism.

@ IceFire

So, should state elections be suspended and all power handed to the federal goverment? Surely the 9/11 attacks were more damaging?

[kerosene 0]

These are articles relating to russian journalists.

http://news.bostonherald.com/interna....format=

http://www.guardian.co.uk/russia/article/0,2763,1260534,00.html

and lastly

While discussing all these facts and trends, Moscow journalists and their New York colleagues could not miss the problem of “media freedom†in Russia or, more correctly, its absence.

Anna Politkovskaya, a Russian journalist famous for her truthful description of the Chechnyan war, tried to reach Beslan. Her trip ended on Sept. 2 in a hospital in Rostov-on-Don, halfway between Moscow and Beslan. According to reliable data, Anna was poisoned and remains in very grave condition. Other “Putin unfriendly†journalists trying to reach Beslan by air were involved in fighting with the police at an airdrome and had been arrested.

Russian journalists in Moscow and New York, while admitting the unacceptability of the present situation in Chechnya, cannot find a comprehensive answer to one more famous Russian question: “What to do?†However, even if they find the answer, the Kremlin won’t change its policy. That’s because the independent media’s influence on and general public opinion of the present rulers of Russia are negligible.

taken from:

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/9/9/00114.shtml

[MSpencer 0]

Sometimes you need some throat slitting to ensure that things fall into place in a country so bungled by incompetent beaurocrats.

You think murdering people who don't agree with you is a ok way to solve problems in a  "democracy"? Been eating a bit too much of those freedom fries haven't you?

I cannot believe you just said that. I defy you to find one instance in the history of the American republic that one person has been murdered by an opposing party.

Quote[/b] ]For every schoolchild killed in Beslan you can find 10 people killed for their opinions in the USSR. Terror attacks are far less horrible choice than authoritianism.

That's why terrorists choose targets like schools. Suddenly the 5,000 people thrown into a ditch with a bullet in their head are less important than 500 children who got blown up by Islamic extremists. Terrorism isn't murder, it's communication of demands and ideas, including murder.

Quote[/b] ]So what is the general consensus? Is he doing it for himself and his party or does he have other aims as well? How is Russia doing at this moment economically and militarily?

What he's establishing is a limited democracy, much like Iraq had under Sadddam Hussein. I'm not saying he'll rig elections, but expect changes to laws, constitution allowed or not, strict changes in the democratic process, and loss of certain rights. Yeah, he's doing it for himself.

[edc 0]

Does the Russian Parliament have enough power to challenge some of his rulings? And do they have a justice system that could overturn some of his acts? Hopefully there's atleast a few checks and balances to keep the Russian leaders from taking to much power(as Putin appears to be trying to do).

I'm sure there are many things the Russians could have done better to prevent the Beslan and other terrorist attacks, but I don't see how giving one person more authority would solve any of those problems.

How long is a term for a Russian President? I know there was an election fairly recently. Is there any limit on the number of terms that one person can hold? I really don't see how this situation is going to get any better until Putin is gone, or until measures are put into place to prevent him from becoming more or less a dictator.

For all of our faults, the one good thing about our(American) government system(and I'm sure many governments of many other countries) is that it has a very good system of checks and balances. It would be pretty difficult for one person to take total control, without a violent coup d'tat(sp?).

[IceFire 0]

Nevermind, delete this post also.

[IceFire 0]

delete this post

[Balschoiw 0]

IceFire:

Quote[/b] ]As for Iraq, the Iraqis have yet to taste real democracy, nor are they are very educated people.

I hope you´re sure what you´re saying. By the 70´s Iraq was THE muslim country on this planet with University for women and such.

Iraqi´s are highly educated. That´s why the US faces such problems down there. It´s not because they are uneducated, but because they know what the US is doing down there. That´s why they oppose them.

And I´m sorry to say such, but supporting a way of thinking as you do, with throat slitting and backfalls into dark eras , hmm...just for a little time...sounds like you would welcome the inquisition anytime to turn your muslim neighbour into a christian.

Are you actually aware of what you´re saying ?  

[IceFire 0]

This isn't about Iraq.  This thread is about events currently unfolding in Russia.

Regardless of the education level of some Iraqis, that doesn't change the fact that they have never experienced true western, democratic tradition and government.  That weighs heavily into the situation with the U.S. government trying to create political and social change in that region.

Russia is already it's own selfsufficient country that has lived in it's own way and interacted with the rest of the world for centuries.  They can choose whatever form of government for themselves that they wish.

Anyways, stop bringing Iraq into this. They are totally different countries in complete different parts of the world.

This is about Russia, not Iraq.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]Anyways, stop bringing Iraq into this. They are totally different countries in complete different parts of the world.

I´m beginning to get tired of you. YOU posted it goddamnit. YOU tend to post bull and delete it after a few minutes and then run around screaming we should not debate this and that while you brought it up goddamnit. Maybe you better think first and then post. That´s the logical row and not posting first and then activating those lazy braincells.

If you don´t want issues discussed that don´t belong here then don´t post that nonsense.

[Leveler 0]

Quote[/b] ]So what is the general consensus? Is he doing it for himself and his party or does he have other aims as well? How is Russia doing at this moment economically and militarily?

What he's establishing is a limited democracy' date=' much like Iraq had under Sadddam Hussein. I'm not saying he'll rig elections, but expect changes to laws, constitution allowed or not, strict changes in the democratic process, and loss of certain rights. Yeah, he's doing it for himself.[/quote']

I was thinking along the lines of the knee jerk response in US after 9/11. Putin is setting the stage for the acquisition of former soviet states. However I know that despite the improvements the last years, their economy is struggling and the condition of the military is miserable. So I was wondering if we are going to see some changes in the forseeable future.