Help me understand.

[sputnik monroe 102]

One thing that cracks me up after reading these five pages, is this comment "Americans are so intolerant and ignorant of others cultures!". Do you realise how ignorant most of you sound? My favorite is when people make fun of cowboys, southerners, farmers, and heck any one who doesn't live in New York or Los Angles.  Every one takes it as the gospel that cowboys, rednecks, any one from the south, and farmers are inbred, black murdering bastards. Really? So how many of you have actually met a cowboy or talked to any one who doesn't live in the city?

     To me that is total ignorance of culture right there. You don't know a thing about cowboys or others,  except what is spoon fed to you.  It cracks me up when ever I hear the usual cliche's " The Yanks are a bunch of gun toting cowboys!", and then in the same breath " They are so ignorant and intolerant". To me it's just as baseless and foolish as when morons say " Oh the Russians those vodka drinking uhsanka wearing commies!".

   That and the total missconceptions. For example, " They are so violent over there, look at all the school shootings!". Do you realise how rare those are? I can name almost every one that's ever happened. When one does happen it's hyped and all over the news for months. So I can name them, it's not some common event that happens so much they go unoticed and people lose count of them.

    You know back to the " those god damned rural people with guns" thing. I have to say how often do you hear about farmers and cowboys shooting people? No really please enlightne me? Every time I hear about some one getting shot it's in the "enlightened", cowboy free cities.

     I actually can forgive most forigners for those misconceptions though.After all it's Hollywoods fault, they project that image to the world. If there's one thing that's a constant in Hollywood films it's that rural people are inbred pieces of shit and urban hippsters are cool. We should all be like the rich yuppy movie star or the hair dresser. No one should work with their hands and tend crops or live in the country. Hell there's no night clubs or discos in the country. Bottom line, it's to much hard work.

     Any way, yeah most of the world hates America and thinks we are a moral cesspool and are a bunch of gun toting murderers. It is our fault though it may not be entirely true, but the people (read the media and entertainment industry) who speak on our behalf to the world project that image.

    If any one of you met a cowboy for real, I think you would be surprised big time. You would find that most of them are honest soft spoken hard working individuals. Yet if you go to some tourist trap slum like Hollywood or New York, sure your going to meet a bunch of self asorbed assholes.

     Sorry for the rambling, I'm typing this real fast and don't have time to proof read it. So I'm sure it's overflowing with typos and is a long ramble. So I'll just make it simple what I'm trying to say...

   The rest of the world hates us for many reasons. One of which is the perception that we are all a bunch of violent, Jerry Springer watching, morons.  Basically the image that our media and Entertainment industry as exported to the world for that past 50 years or so.

[Bernadotte 0]

I went to an International School here for 7 years but we also have an American School The Hague (ASH). Let me tell u somethin about ASH. It is forbidden territory for foreigners like me because they are 0 tolerated. Linguistics and cultures come under direct attack by fellow students.

Huh?

But according to this:

Quote[/b] ]Our learner centered, American based curriculum is enriched by the many nationalities of students in our school. It is the richness of these cultures that makes learning and teaching so unique and rewarding at ASH.

In fact, I never encountered anything like what you've described during my years teaching at an American Int'l School in Central Europe.

[Donnervogel 0]

@Sputnik Monroe

Now there it is again... you should read more detailed. That's what one thing that adds to my opinion of some americans being ingorant.

Notice how you say "everyone" or "all" are saying this or that of americans. On the other hand many people here take care to say "many" or "some" americans do this and that. But you understand it as if they would say "everyone".

If people use words like "some" or even "many" that means that they are aware that the americans are not generally like that. But that it sticks out that there are induviduals that do act in a bad way.

another thing that adds to my opinion of some americans being ignorant is when I see how one part of your media is reporting about different countries. Especially the middle east region. Or when I read comments in american dominated forums about Iraq or Al Qaida issues. Often I'm utterly shocked how those people speak of the human beings living in those region. They speak of them as if they were a different species and don't concede the same human rights that they take for granted to them. And the sad thing is that it's not even very rare that I read such forum discussions. Also there are signs of complete ingorance towards the muslim culture. I know those people are probably mostly hardliners. But the verbal violence I read there is leaving me speechless at times.

And about making fun about cowboys... well you should see all the comics and cartoons and western movies (all made in USA) we get to see here in television. They let the cowboys look like clown sometimes. Also I don't know many people thar mock US cititzens from the south in a special way. Most people aren't even aware that the North/South difference is still in place in the US.

To the violence thing. It's not only the school shootings. Infact most references to US violence I've read here didn't mention them at all. Mostly the arguments are the militarism and gun policy. And it's a sad fact that the US has the highest death toll due to shootings.

[sputnik monroe 102]

Quote[/b] ]And about making fun about cowboys... well you should see all the comics and cartoons and western movies (all made in USA) we get to see here in television.

That's exectly what I mean. The only thing you know about them is what you see in Hollywood productions.

As for all the "every one" and "all" statements, I meant about all the people making the statements. Not all in general regardless. Sorry if it reads like that. In my last post just read every "all" and "every one" as "most" and "the ones".

[Bernadotte 0]

Maybe if the 'world' stood up and said "Citizens of Iraq, we'd like to help you get your own country back to live how you like" instead of "The US is here to Protect you, stabilise your nation to support US interests in the region" things might have been different.

Actually when the people of Iraq pleaded with and begged the US to allow Iraq's citizens to directly and democratically elect their first sovereign government the US should have said yes.  Then things might have been different. We can take this up further in the Iraq thread if you wish.

My main point, and perhaps the main point of this entire thread, is that many Americans are too often incapable of understanding what is really going on beyond their own borders.

[Donnervogel 0]

That's exectly what I mean. The only thing you know about them is what you see in Hollywood productions.

Not quite. I think people know more about reality than the information from the movies. I can't speak for everyone but we had quite a lot american history in school. We also learned about american society. But I did specialise a bit in history so I don't count as average here ;)

But the point I wanted to make is that the US culutral infuence on western europe is promoting the picture of the clown-cowboys and stuff. It's like an image-campaign. But it's not controled from europe but from the american movie industry ;)

[toadlife 3]

....the point you were making was that your opinion was that the USA is the wealthiest and most powerful nation on earth, but in your view, this wasnt the reason for the USA being disliked......however, I am pointing out that its that sort of statement which contributes .

Well my opinion that our policies are the thing which pisses people off is based upon the premise that we have the power needed to impose those policies. How much military power China has, and how they would compare to the U.S. in some theoretical war is irrelevant.

If you want to think that the U.S. is not the pre-eminent economic and political super-power in the world today, then go ahead. I'm rather perplexed at the fact that you are arguing this silly point with me. My opinion of my country's status, both economically and politically in the world won't change by the <s>fact</s>, errr, opinion that the average Luxenbourg resident is wealthier than the average U.S. resident. It's obvious that I've struck a nerve with you by stating my opinion, and there is nothing I can do about that.

Allow me to don my politicians hat and rephrase my point, so that it strikes as few nerves as possible...

People don't hate the United States because of it's wealth or power; They hate the United States for leveraging her wealth and power to force political and economic policies upon other nations.

There. I said it without any reference to how the U.S. ranks in the world.

[sputnik monroe 102]

Quote[/b] ]But the point I wanted to make is that the US culutral infuence on western europe is promoting the picture of the clown-cowboys and stuff. It's like an image-campaign. But it's not controled from europe but from the american movie industry ;)

That's exactly what I said and meant.

Here is what I said

Quote[/b] ]The only thing you know about them is what you see in Hollywood productions.

Hollywood USA. You'll never find a more vile hive of scum and villiany.

[denoir 0]

One thing that cracks me up after reading these five pages, is this comment "Americans are so intolerant and ignorant of others cultures!". Do you realise how ignorant most of you sound? My favorite is when people make fun of cowboys, southerners, farmers, and heck any one who doesn't live in New York or Los Angles.  Every one takes it as the gospel that cowboys, rednecks, any one from the south, and farmers are inbred, black murdering bastards. Really? So how many of you have actually met a cowboy or talked to any one who doesn't live in the city?

Well, that's a fair point, but I don't think you can attach any real value to the cowboy thing. It's more like a historical reference.

The actual reference to the violence and the guns comes well.. from a high violent crime rate and a high gun ownership. And at least the latter is connected to your traditions of unregulated private possessions of weapons.

And of course Bush likes to play cowboy, which by association tends to reflect poorly on cowboys. And in terms of what people think of America, it has much more of an impact than some Hollywood fantasy.

[General Barron 0]

Wow, more here than I can read at the moment. However, from what I've read, I have to fully agree with Sputnik Monroe. I see a lot of posts that talk about how America is full of redneck/cowboy/violent/arrogant/selfish people who lump other nations into certain stereotypes. Something is wrong with that statement, lol.

Anyway, instead of trying to explain why some people hate America (and trust me, there are plenty of Americans who hate the US too), I'm going to explain why I love America. When it comes down to it, what I love about it is freedom. Cheezy? Yes. But you know what? It's true, America is one of the most free countries on Earth. I didn't say it was the most free, because other countries (mainly European ones) are more free than America, in some aspects. However, in America:

I still have freedom of speech. There are no laws making it a crime to publish "hate speech" (who defines 'hate speech'?). I am free, nay, encouraged to criticize my government.

I am still free to own a gun and defend myself with it. My own constitution states that the population has the right to overthrow its government if it becomes oppressive; and the second amendment ensures that we have the ability to do so. I'm sure those living in 1940's Germany, or in Stalin's Russia, would have loved to have this right...

My taxes are relatively low. (Although, after WWII they shot up and have only gotten higher since). I am still free to spend over half the money I earn.

I am still free to put a majority of what I want in my body. Drugs, obviously, are not allowed, but I am still free to smoke, drink alchohol, and eat fatty foods. Don't laugh about this one, because there are people who are trying to take away your right to do the rest.

The internet is still a wonderful beacon of freedom in my country. The government has very little control over cyberspace here.

For the most part, religion is respected and tolerated here. My government, in theory, does not endorse or interfere with any religion. Although I'm an athiest, I still see the value in these ideals.

Now, why do some people truly hate America? I mean, like the Taliban/Al Queda (sp?) types? Because they hate the above freedoms. Yes, again, cheezy. But its true: they absolutely dispise western freedoms, such as those mentioned above. They think women shouldn't be allowed to show their face in public, for god's sake! Now, if I were trying to bring back the "good old days" when women had to wear burkas, I would hate it too if there were countries like America/Britain/Japan/the West that proved that freedom is a better way to live. It sure is hard to oppress a population, when they keep seeing how life could be better.

Now, as for those that dislike America (but wouldn't run a plane into the WTC), I think it is a little more complicated. However, the issue of our freedoms does still come into play. I know plenty of America-hating Americans, who hate many of our freedoms.

There are many things that I do hate about my country, though:

My government interferes too much with the free market. The force of government is often used to benifit one business over another. The price of sugar is set by the government to benefit the makers of corn syrup. Microsoft can be sued by its competitors for being a 'monopoly'. Farmers are paid (subsidised) to not grow things. The list is painfully long.

Our legal system is broken and out of control. Jurors are picked for their stupidity and lack of knowledge. You can sue for stupid stuff and win. If I am only 5% at fault in an accident, I can be made to pay 50% of the costs, simply because I have deeper pockets. We need a 'loser pays' system, among other things.

We have an increasing culture of "victimhood". Everyone is a victim, and nobody is responsible for their own actions. If I get cancer from smoking cigs all my life, I can sue the tobacco companies (since it isn't my fault, after all). If I get fat from eating McD's, it must be McD's fault. If I'm black, nothing is my fault; I cannot be blamed for anything, because hundreds of years ago, blacks were enslaved in the US. This will victim culture will destroy America if it keeps getting worse.

As people take less and less responsibility for themselves, they also start expecting more and more from the government. This just means that they want other people to do things for them, since the government can only 'make' money by taking it from other people. The government is always the first thing people seem to turn to whenever they want any changes to occur; be they economic or social. Both our presidential candidates try to woo voters by talking about what new government laws/programs they will create, instead of talking about what worthless laws/programs they will repeal.

Personally, I would love to live in a country where the government's sole function is to protect my rights to live my life as I want; and where I would be free to live my life as I choose, as long as I'm not interfering with somebody else's right to do the same. Unfortunately, no such country exists on Earth, but America is a close-enough second.  

[denoir 0]

That's all nice and well, but that hardly accounts for people flying airliners into your buildings. Those that don't approve of your freedoms don't have to live in the US, do they? I mean, for instance I might comment on your gun laws, but ultimately it's an internal US matter. It can't bother me per se, just like various other US liberties can't really boteher Osama and his merry men... as long as they are contained in the US.

I mean, from a bit of a distance, American and European forms of government, individual liberties etc look exactly the same. We differ only on minor issues - certainly nothing a third party (like bin Laden) would take any special notice of. And yet America is the primary target. Why do you think that is? We did have an attack in Europe too. Why do you think it was Spain and not Sweden that got attacked?

I'll tell you, because it's quite simple. It has nothing to do with what you do in your country, how much money you have or how your women dress. It has to do with what you do to other countries. There is nothing odd about it. Bin Laden wants America out of the Arab states - specifically Saudi Arabia. His point is that the US with its oil money are corrupting the Saudi government and by proxy the culture and religion. And he does have a point there (not that it in any way justifies his actions). Spain was attacked because their involvement in the Iraq invasion.

Bottom line is that while they may not share the same cultural values, it takes a lot more to actively start hating somebody and much more to actually do something about it.

[General Barron 0]

Quote[/b] ]And yet America is the primary target. Why do you think that is? We did have an attack in Europe too. Why do you think it was Spain and not Sweden that got attacked?

Ah, and that is where Europe is being blind and foolish. America is the primary target because it is the "great satan". We're the flagship of the West. Al Queida (sp?) has declared war on the West, and America is just the most notable target.

Do you really think Spain would have been left alone if it hadn't gone into Iraq? Why do other middle-eastern countries get attacked by Al-Queida then? There are plenty of examples of Al-Queida attacks all over Europe, even before the Iraq war. Sweden is not a primary target because it doesn't have as much influence as America/Britain/Spain/France/Germany has. Just because the Spainards elected this new clown, doesn't mean that Al-Queida is going to leave them alone. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool. Pulling troops out of Saudi Arabia isn't going to make Americans safer. Anyone who believes that is buying into Bin Laden's bullshit. The only way to stop these terrorists is to make them incapable of harming us, by killing them, breaking up their networks, and making sure that no country will harbor them.

[Asmodeus 0]

That was an excellent post (this one: Posted: Aug. 15 2004,10:48 ) General Barron and I completely agree.  

I think the right to own guns point is a huge one.  Why do people look down on America for retaining this right?  Do those people really think that people that have legal guns are shooting each other on purpose all the time, or is it usually black market guns that would still be around anyway if there was a gun ban?    (Just to think about the criminals here, they probably hope for guns to be banned, they could rob anyone's house without worrying about being shot)

Anyways, something I'd like to say as well is that in my opinion America is focusing on "policing the world" way too much due to very questionable oil ties and without a global majority support when we could stay more within our own borders and focus on other means of transportation and security.  It is very understandable that a great amount of people are upset because they are affected by this in many ways and I can see that.

Unfortunately these types of things are not usually up for vote, and in my opinion the last few choices for President for my country have been attempts to decide who is the "least worst" choice.    

Asmo

*edit* (explained which post)

[Pathy 0]

Look, Americans, you want a topic on why people hate America? Then you MUST be prepared to accept the reasons people say.....

.....how the hell are you meant to form an accurate perception of outside opinion if you just argue it away?

Toadlife, its not irrelevant, you stated AS A FACT that the USA is the most wealthy and powerful nation in the world today.

As I said, that is the sort of thing that pisses alot of people in other western nations off....this feeling of superiority...an opinion presented as fact....you then came back with a great all-American reply essentially saying "But we are!".....well great for you, but YOUR the one missing the point.....

that point is: its that type of behaviour that causes people to get pissed off with Americans. I just argued to pieces your case as to why it was FACT that USA is most wealthy and powerful in order to see your typical american reaction to the revelation that its not a FACT that his country isnt the best. It quite reinforces an earlier point i made.

I suggest you look up FACT and OPINION in the dictionary. I find it hypocritical that you post up GDP stats that show that the US is top and its a fact, when i post up GDP stats in a more meaningful form that show otherwise (IE, luxembourg is a wealthier nation), its just an opinion.....so you are either genuinely confused about what constitutes fact or you are just deliberately arguing for the sake of it.....in which case it is I who have touched a nerve, that nerve being that you cant stand to see the USA not top of every table.....

Yes that second statement is better because it does not state the opinion that the USA is the wealthiest and most powerful country in the world as a fact....it does not belittle any other nation, blahdy blah blah.....

Anyhow, reading your last post i think you missed the whole point of my argument, so, one last time:

The only reason i commented on your point was because it was a perfect example of what i said a page before you made that comment.

[Pathy 0]

Quote[/b] ]And about making fun about cowboys... well you should see all the comics and cartoons and western movies (all made in USA) we get to see here in television.

   That's exectly what I mean. The only thing you know about them is what you see in Hollywood productions.

    As for all the "every one" and "all" statements, I meant about all the people making the statements. Not all in general regardless. Sorry if it reads like that. In my last post just read every "all" and "every one" as "most" and "the ones".

You should see what Hollywood makes of Brits......now THATS annoying.

We are either all rich, have butlers, our own castle, and all talk like "What, what, jolly good show old chap!" or otherwise we are all cockneys. We all live in "quaint" little villages where nothing ever happens, and we all take a break in the afternoon for Tea and Scones....hell....there was one American who used to be in my French class....he told me that he seriously thought that at a certain time of the day we all stopped everything to have a cup of tea out of our best china mugs.....

Actually, we also get ALOT of general US TV, not just hollywood films....

Oh and Cowboy is used as a general term for someone abit slapdash....example, cowboy builders...the builders who will rip you off and cut corners.....its not actually taking piss out of all cowboys, ect, its just become a term that we use....when we say....the marines are a bunch of Cowboys, for example, we are not meaning, the marines all came from back on the ranch, we mean they are sloppy, ect.....

[theavonlady 2]

You should see what Hollywood makes of Brits......now THATS annoying.

We are either all rich, have butlers, our own castle, and all talk like "What, what, jolly good show old chap!" or otherwise we are all cockneys. We all live in "quaint" little villages where nothing ever happens, and we all take a break in the afternoon for Tea and Scones....hell....there was one American who used to be in my French class....he told me that he seriously thought that at a certain time of the day we all stopped everything to have a cup of tea out of our best china mugs.....

I learned all of that about the Brittish from BBC TV series, not from Hollywood.

[denoir 0]

Quote[/b] ]And yet America is the primary target. Why do you think that is? We did have an attack in Europe too. Why do you think it was Spain and not Sweden that got attacked?

Ah, and that is where Europe is being blind and foolish. America is the primary target because it is the "great satan". We're the flagship of the West. Al Queida (sp?) has declared war on the West, and America is just the most notable target.

They have not declared a 'war on the west'. Not even on the 'infidels'. They have declared war on the 'infidels occupying the holy land' in short countries that get involved in the Mid East in a way that they don't approve.

And if you've forgotten, bin Laden offered a 'truce' to Europe (which was of course ignored as we don't make deals with terrorists).

Quote[/b] ]

Do you really think Spain would have been left alone if it hadn't gone into Iraq?

Yes of course.

Quote[/b] ]Why do other middle-eastern countries get attacked by Al-Queida then?

That's a different story - those are internal matters. The thing we're talking about is why they would make an effort to attack a third party.

Quote[/b] ]There are plenty of examples of Al-Queida attacks all over Europe, even before the Iraq war.

Oh really? Name one.

Quote[/b] ]

Just because the Spainards elected this new clown, doesn't mean that Al-Queida is going to leave them alone. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool. Pulling troops out of Saudi Arabia isn't going to make Americans safer. Anyone who believes that is buying into Bin Laden's bullshit.

No, it is more likely that bin Laden is an evil man who just kills people because he was born evil. He just hates for the sake of hate and because he is a bad bad man... yeah. A very good example of a typically American oversimplifed view (done to death by US media and believed by many people).

Sorry to disappoint you, but the world is not quite that simple. AQ does have a coherent agenda which should be taken seriously.

Quote[/b] ]The only way to stop these terrorists is to make them incapable of harming us, by killing them, breaking up their networks, and making sure that no country will harbor them.

Terrorism is a symptom of a deeper problem. Killing off the current batch of terrorists won't help you. There are plenty of more willing to step up. Now, had AQ been just a bunch of radicals, it would be fine. They do however enjoy a very strong popular support, giving them resources and manpower. And unless you want to nuke the whole middle east, you have to start thinking about why they hate you - in a bit more sophisticated terms than 'they are jealous of our wealth and freedoms'. Until you get to the core of the problem of why you are so resented and until you don't do something about it, you'll have problems with terrorists.

Sure, kill off bin Laden and friends, but that's not enough. And your local 'homeland security' is a bunch of rubbish. It's not a solution to cut down on your civil rights and hide in the cellar. Treat the problem, not the symptoms. There is no reason why anybdoy would want you dead just because you are Americans. It has to do with your actions around the world, and hence you are in the position to change it.

[Pathy 0]

I learned all of that about the Brittish from BBC TV series, not from Hollywood.

Lol but its not true

[The Real Armstrong 0]

Wow, more here than I can read at the moment. However, from what I've read, I have to fully agree with Sputnik Monroe. I see a lot of posts that talk about how America is full of redneck/cowboy/violent/arrogant/selfish people who lump other nations into certain stereotypes. Something is wrong with that statement, lol.

Most people have stated that they do know that the complete country can't be filled with idiots and are complaining about a particular group and/or goverment.

I am still free to own a gun and defend myself with it. My own constitution states that the population has the right to overthrow its government if it becomes oppressive; and the second amendment ensures that we have the ability to do so. I'm sure those living in 1940's Germany, or in Stalin's Russia, would have loved to have this right...

You also, by extremley far marignal, have the highest gun murder rate.

My taxes are relatively low. (Although, after WWII they shot up and have only gotten higher since). I am still free to spend over half the money I earn.

I do not see why this is a good thing. I live in Sweden which has a very high tax. We get free (and working!) hospitals, schools, libraries, roads, decoration, entertainment, etc, etc.

I am still free to put a majority of what I want in my body. Drugs, obviously, are not allowed, but I am still free to smoke, drink alchohol, and eat fatty foods. Don't laugh about this one, because there are people who are trying to take away your right to do the rest.

This is not correct, since California quite recentley introduced a new law against smoking, and that is a very good thing. If I would've been in charge smoking would be forbidden on any communal areas, including outdoors(nothing more annoying than having a batch of Stalins Cigs in your face during a concert). It is not good for anyone, it destroys both the smokers and the people around them.

The internet is still a wonderful beacon of freedom in my country. The government has very little control over cyberspace here.

Internet has also caused serious crimes such as downloading games, etc. I mean like, I don't wanna set the web rules like in China but illegal sites should be shut down.

[Ares1978 0]

A lot of excellent points so far. Hope you Americans see that the rest of the world does not hate the people.

Personally, I don't hate America, but I hate the fact that the people in charge get away with anything over there (fine, they did try to crucify the guy that got the blowjob) and that some Americans seem to have gravely misunderstood the meaning of "freedom". In any other part of the free world, people would at least have tried to overthrow a similar government. That's what's so great about the American political system; it is revolution-proof. Not because it works, but because the people seem to think it works.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Quote[/b] ]But the point I wanted to make is that the US culutral infuence on western europe is promoting the picture of the clown-cowboys and stuff. It's like an image-campaign. But it's not controled from europe but from the american movie industry ;)

   That's exactly what I said and meant.  

Here is what I said

Quote[/b] ]The only thing you know about them is what you see in Hollywood productions.

   Hollywood USA. You'll never find a more vile hive of scum and villiany.

Sorry buddy. A sentence like "either you are with us or against us" or "smoke them out of their caves" and "coalition of the willing" sounds very much like John Wayne. Actually calling Mr. Rumsfeld a texan cowboy is an insult to all hollywood WildWest productions.

Imagery and stereotypes is what gave america its good reputation. Think of surfboys, playgirls, cowboys, rockstars, gangstas, policemen... but do you seriously believe this is what people might hate about america?

Bullshit, people get anoyed that you freely call the whole world weasels just because they didnt eat your lies about WMD

That you dont sign the Kyoto-treaty that the WHOLE world agreed to, and would save our nature

That you are the only nation not willing to cooperate with the UN tribunal

That you are the only nation not willing to ban Landmines

That you are the only nation around not seeing that also Israel is causing pain. (just like palestine)

That you call everyone liars, traitors, weasels who do not want to rush into a war

That you would never accept that some chapters in your history book are filled with ill-doings. You rather reinterpret it.

That your soldiers are now for longer in Iraq than a year and every muslim child already speaks better english than the GIs speak arabic.

And that you think criticism is just envy, hostility and arrogance.

Sorry, couldnt help it.

[Balschoiw 0]

I definately wanted to stay out of this useless thread...alll that whining..."why do you hate us so much?"

In fact it´s the other way around. The US must hate the rest of the world really bad, judging their actions.

I fully agree with Albert and couln´t have said it better.

Thumbs up !

[Bernadotte 0]

...alll that whining..."why do you hate us so much?"

It sometimes reminds me of Germany under the Nazis prior to WWII.

- Didn't they whine endlessly about the whole world being against them and the unjustices of the Versaille Treaty?

- Weren't they facing record budget deficits and a plunging currency?

- Didn't most of the unrest begin when a foreign terrorist burnt down the German parliament?

I'm no historian so correct me if I'm wrong, but America really needs to get a hold of itself.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

...alll that whining..."why do you hate us so much?"

It sometimes reminds me of Germany under the Nazis prior to WWII.

- Didn't they whine endlessly about the whole world being against them and the unjustices of the Versaille Treaty?

- Weren't they facing record budget deficits and a plunging currency?

- Didn't most of the unrest begin when a foreign terrorist burnt down the German parliament?

I'm no historian so correct me if I'm wrong, but America really needs to get a hold of itself.

Slightly harsh.

First of all the germans didnt "whine" about the situation but they simply had sincere doubts that the nation could survive any longer under these conditions. Basically all products produced inside germany were exported and the germans were left with nothing. I remember that in my town the only way to get cole in the winter was to steal it from the train that exported it all to France. The french guards however were allowed to shoot immediately. But sometimes when a child came along a french guard would simply kick a few pieces of the train. But as you might imagine a few pieces are not realy enough to get you through 5 hard cold winter months.

Comparing starving germany of the Weimarer Republic with the USA 2000 is slightly inadequate!

[da12thMonkey 1943]

- Didn't most of the unrest begin when a foreign terrorist burnt down the German parliament?

I'm no historian so correct me if I'm wrong, but America really needs to get a hold of itself.

Some people believe this was done by the Nazi party to remove the communists who were the biggest rivals to the Nazis in the German parliament by placing the clame on them. Either way the Communists were blamed by the Nazis and the German Chancellor allowed Hitler to shut down the communist party by raiding its political offices etc.

Bear in mind this could be wrong, I was only about 11 when I was tought the history leading up to WW2.