The Iraq thread 4

[Akira 0]

Good ol' Bin Laden pops up again. Looks pretty healthy too. Admited he was responsible for 9/11 for the first time and stated he never imagined that Bush would react to the attacks so slowly and "leave 50,000 of his people" to fight for survival when they needed him.

Ouch.

EDIT:

Quote[/b] ]BREAKING NEWS

Bin Laden video: Americans' security does not depend on the president they elect, but on U.S. policy. "Your security is not in the hands of Kerry or Bush or al Qaeda." Details soon

[ralphwiggum 6]

Quote[/b] ]I could go on rant on why the hell IAEA allowed Saddam to keep those high-grade explosives. Come on it is Saddam! Anyway, the coalition have destroyed +100,000 ton of explosives and weapons.

since when did IAEA have authority to destroy non-nuclear weapons?

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]

since when did IAEA have authority to destroy non-nuclear weapons?

Do I have to ban you? You know what I mean....

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]

since when did IAEA have authority to destroy non-nuclear weapons?

Do I have to ban you? You know what I mean....

Yes.

You mean you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Yes.

You mean you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

Why would the UN and co allow Iraq to keep those explosives in the first? One can help set off a nuclear weapon and the other is powerful. I know their dual-purpose but why would they allow Iraq to keep tons of it? They were not being used and were just sitting there.

Edit:

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]Yes.

You mean you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

Why would the UN and co allow Iraq to keep those explosives in the first? One can help set of a nuclear weapon and the other is powerful. I know their dual-purpose but why would they allow Iraq to keep tons of it? They were not being used and were just sitting there.

Fine question. Maybe someone that is mroe knowledgable in the UN sanctions and inspections can enlighten us. Were they dual use? Were these type of weapons even being inspected for? Technically they could have been used to set off a WMD of some sort, but I assume that that was not a criteria, given that just about anything can do that.

I assume they were not on the prohibited list.

[robbo 0]

Big attack on the Americans in Iraq

www.reuters.com

Quote[/b] ]FALLUJA, Iraq (Reuters) - Eight U.S. marines were killed and nine wounded west of Baghdad on Saturday in the bloodiest attack on U.S. forces in Iraq for months.

The U.S. military gave no details of the circumstances of the deaths, which it said occurred in the western province of Anbar, which includes the rebel cities of Falluja and Ramadi.

Witnesses said earlier they had seen three U.S. vehicles burning on a road east of Falluja, in Anbar province. It was not clear if that is where the marine casualties occurred.

The latest deaths bring to 858 the number of U.S. troops killed in combat in Iraq since the start of last year's war.

U.S. marine commanders said on Friday they were preparing to storm Falluja and Ramadi to crush guerrillas and foreign militants led by Jordanian Abu Musab al-Zarqawi as part of efforts to pacify Iraq before elections in January.

U.S. warplanes and artillery pounded targets in Falluja during clashes with insurgents on Saturday, witnesses said.

U.S. marine spokesman Lieutenant Lyle Gilbert said marines reconnoitering in force on the southeastern edge of Falluja in the early afternoon had come under mortar fire from insurgents and called in artillery support.

Gilbert called the action the "most consistent and drawn out artillery barrage in recent days," but said it did not mark the beginning of a long-anticipated U.S. offensive.

"This is part of daily operations. When we operate close to the (insurgents) they get spooked or aggressive and we take it to them," he told reporters at a base near Falluja.

There was no immediate word on casualties and a U.S. military spokesman had no comment on the fighting.

U.S. planes bombed Falluja late on Friday night in what the military said were two strikes on weapons caches. City hospital officials said an air raid earlier on Friday killed three men.

Marine commanders say they face a mix of up to 2,000 Iraqi and foreign fighters entrenched in Falluja. Some are thought to be former army officers loyal to Saddam Hussein, others Islamist militants led by Zarqawi.

"We are gearing up for a major operation," Brigadier General Denis Hejlik said at a base near Falluja on Friday. "If we do so, it will be decisive and we will whack them."

Hejlik, deputy commander of the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force, said the expected assault would involve Iraqi forces.

[turms 0]

a pseudo-draft has began.

Foxnews (!)

Quote[/b] ]WASHINGTON — The Army is forcing thousands of former soldiers back into uniform to ease the strain on the service of long military campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

a pseudo-draft has began.

Foxnews  (!)

Quote[/b] ]WASHINGTON  — The Army is forcing thousands of former soldiers back into uniform to ease the strain on the service of long military campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I wouldn't call it a draft as such, but if I understand the military structure of the US military, then this is the last and final reserve that they have before they have to draft, as everyone that does service has to sign for potential forced re-recruitment in case of emergency. Am I correct?

[Acecombat 0]

Does this mean ALL former Army personnel get called back?

How do they arrange this recall? Whats the calling abck criteria? DO they haul everyone in or only people like in a specific age or something.

5000 people dont sound enough to me for a rotation of troops as that seems to be the purpose of this. Is a draft near?

[Akira 0]

All exiting troops have the chance of being recalled for a certain period of time after discharge (I believe for something like 5 years or reaching a certain age.)

[Badgerboy 0]

All exiting troops have the chance of being recalled for a certain period of time after discharge (I believe for something like 5 years or reaching a certain age.)

Bet thats something they don't mention when you sign up!

I know in the UK forces, you can opt into a scheme like this, but you a small stipend a year for doing so. They can't howver, just call you back to service. When your out, your out.

[Chill 0]

100,000 iraq's dead after 3,000 killed in 9/11, whos the terrorist?

[ralphwiggum 6]

100,000 iraq's dead after 3,000 killed in 9/11, whos the terrorist?

this is not the first time i have to remind you to let go of a single line rhetoric.

[ralphwiggum 6]

.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/11/01/iraq.main/index.html

Quote[/b] ]BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Gunmen assassinated two Iraqi government officials in separate attacks Monday -- a deputy governor in Baghdad and an Interior Ministry official in Baquba, northeast of the capital.

In the Baquba attack, assassins in a gray Opel automobile shot and killed Interior Ministry official Capt. Aisar Khalil Abdul Aziz near a traffic circle that has been the location of past insurgent attacks, said Maj. Gen. Waleed Khalid Abdul-Salam, the Diyala province's police chief.

A bystander also was wounded, Abdul-Salam said.

A second assassination -- earlier Monday in the Al-Dora district of southern Baghdad -- targeted Deputy Gov. Hatem Kamel Abdul Fatah while he was on his way to work, Interior Ministry spokesman Col. Adnan Abdul Rahman said.

Police said they were investigating the killings.

[billybob2002 0]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm....ter_war

Quote[/b] ]

Copters Maxed in Counterinsurgency War

Mon Nov 1, 3:13 AM ET   Middle East - AP

By JIM KRANE, Associated Press Writer

TAJI, Iraq - The U.S. military is increasingly turning to attack helicopters to battle guerrillas in Iraq (news - web sites), using tactics closer to those from Vietnam or Israel than the Gulf war formations that blasted Iraqi tanks.

The Army is also pushing its fleets of transport helicopters as hard as it can, ferrying U.S. troops and Iraqi leaders by air, rather than letting them drive the country's ambush-prone roads.

"When we fly, soldiers don't die," said Col. Jim McConville, who commands the 1st Cavalry Division's aviation brigade. "We're basically flying as much as we can. And we can't fly them enough."

Since February, McConville's 4th Brigade, headquartered on this dust-blown air base just north of Baghdad, has flown 50,000 combined hours in its nearly 100 helicopters, the highest airborne rate in division history.

Helicopters have emerged as the most important weapon in the U.S. air war in Iraq. Pairs of Apache, Kiowa and Marine Cobra attack helicopters often act as the eyes — and arms — for small bands of ground troops.

And they are expected to be critical to the forthcoming attempt to retake guerrilla-held Fallujah.

Helicopters have proven themselves in dozens of counterinsurgency battles, with pilots radioing directions or firing rockets, allowing ground troops to overcome ambushes or blocked streets.

"It's an adrenaline rush, guys flying 140 miles per hour just above the trees and firing rockets," said McConville, whose own helicopters have been rocked by rocket-propelled grenades or punched with bullets.

The Black Hawk, which entered service in 1979, has become a taxi for soldiers and contractors hopping from the safety of one U.S. base to another.

"If everyone had a choice no one would drive," said McConville, 45, of Quincy, Mass. "But there's not enough aircraft to fly every soldier who wants to fly."

The ominous thumping sound of American helicopters roaring over Baghdad's rooftops is becoming as emblematic of this war as it was of Vietnam.

In February, an Iraqi reporter asked Army Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, spokesman for the occupation forces, what he would recommend Iraqi mothers tell their children frightened by low-flying helicopters.

"What we would tell the children of Iraq is that the noise they hear is the sound of freedom," Kimmitt said.

American helicopters provoke dread among insurgents as well, McConville said. The shooting often stops when one shows up.

"The Iraqis are afraid of helicopters," McConville said. "We think they're pretty deadly. But they think they're a lot more deadly than they are."

The 1st Cavalry, whose pioneering of Vietnam "Air Cav" operations was featured in the 1979 movie "Apocalypse Now," has seen two of its helicopters shot down. Two other 1st Cavalry Kiowas collided and crashed, for unknown reasons, in October.

Heavy armor, like the Black Hawk's Kevlar flooring, helps bring the machines back after they've been hit.

"They'll come in with holes and we'll repair them," said Maj. John Agor, 42, striding through a Taji hangar filled with disassembled Black Hawks and Apaches. "More likely than not we'll put them back into battle that night."

Helicopter tactics here resemble those that emerged at the end of the Vietnam war, when the Viet Cong acquired Soviet-made SA-7 missiles that were able to pick off high-flying choppers. U.S. pilots began flying low and fast, skimming the trees and fields in a technique known as "mapping the earth."

When the Apache gunship entered service, tactics evolved again.

The Army trained pilots to hover behind front lines and blast tanks with long-range missiles. Apache pilots did just that in the Gulf war.

But Iraqi insurgents have no front lines or tanks. After rebels with shoulder-fired missiles took down a pair of helicopters, including a Chinook transport in November that killed 16 U.S. troops, the Army stopped flying at high altitudes.

"We used to hover around. We can't do that now because you get shot down," McConville said. "People thought it was safer to come down low and risk small arms fire and wires."

So the Army went back to mapping the earth, with improvements. Helicopters have better armor and are loaded with precision weapons and night targeting systems, including those that can detect a person's body heat.

Apaches and Kiowas operate in street battles much the same way as in the Israeli military: rocketing single cars or buildings sheltering insurgents.

"You try to shoot them in an alleyway or shoot one car that's moving along a street," said Capt. Ryan Welch, 29, an Apache pilot with the 4th Brigade. "It's not something we used to train for."

The urban fighting puts big decisions into the hand of a 20-something flier.

When a 1st Cavalry Apache team fired on a disabled Bradley armored vehicle in August, among those killed was an Al-Arabiya television reporter who was broadcasting live. The widely viewed carnage brought criticism on the U.S. military. McConville said his pilots are well aware of their potential for instant infamy.

The Army relies so heavily on its helicopters that some are being flown at rates beyond military recommendations.

Lt. Col. Mike Lundy, commander of the 1st Cavalry's Kiowa regiment, said each of his armed Kiowas flies around 105 hours per month, well over the recommended 65 hours.

Major overhauls normally done every two years are now needed every six months, said Agor, the maintenance chief.

In the case of the Apache, the interval between complete overhauls been pushed back from once every 250 hours to once every 500 hours, said Agor.

[Goeth 0]

Quote[/b] ]

"What we would tell the children of Iraq is that the noise they hear is the sound of freedom," Kimmitt said.

Maybe they should tell their kids that it´s the sound of incoming airstrike and sudden death.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Maybe they should tell their kids that it´s the sound of incoming airstrike and sudden death.

I know! They purposely target them.

BTW, I know I'm ass but you can join the coalition against me.

[Donnervogel 0]

Well you can try go to Iraq and say to the mother that lost her children in an airstrike that it wasn't on purpose. I'm sure she will forgive you. (notice the sarcasm)

It doesn't really matter if you kill them on purpose or not. The problem starts at the point when you decide to bomb areas full of civilians.

[Goeth 0]

BTW, I know I'm ass but you can join the coalition against me.

No problem pal, i´m already there.

[Acecombat 0]

Quote[/b] ]Maybe they should tell their kids that it´s the sound of incoming airstrike and sudden death.

I know! They purposely target them.

BTW, I know I'm ass but you can join the coalition against me.

Oh was that you trying to be sarcastic ... oh poor you the whole world seems out to get you its a big conspiracy help ....

[Akira 0]

Interesting "60 Minutes" last night about what soldiers have to do to properly protect themselves in HumVees.

They've taken to putting up plywood sheets with sandbags inbetween as protection. They also have to scavenge parts from old IRAQI tanks to put up armor on their HumVees. Lotta disturbing videos of Humvees getting blown up and attacked, and some interviews with pissed off GIs, made at Bush and Congress for not giving them the right equipment. Interesting also, one GI said basically the HumVees are still coffins, and everytime they have to go out in one, they pretty much have to pray nothing is going to happen as no matter what they do, the HumVees still don't have armor on the BOTTOM of it.

They also tracked the Defense Bill spending that got hijacked by congress to fund pork-belly projects. There is a shortage of bullets for training and other equipment (like NV goggles) because Congress raided those funds to get the money for their personal projects.

[Acecombat 0]

Oh and i thought the army liked Bush because he favoured all the army upgrade bills in congress INSTEAD of Kerry who reportedly votes against them and would leave the army standing naked with nothing but socks on in the battlefield.

[sputnik monroe 102]

Quote[/b] ]The problem starts at the point when you decide to bomb areas full of civilians.

    The problem starts at the point when the enemy decides to use civilians as human shields. How would you all knowing expert of urban warfare handle that situation? I really would like to know. Oh and by the way retreat and surrender are not options.

    It drives me nuts how people will not condem the ones who actually hide behind women and children.  They know what the outcome will be when they do that.  

    Basically taking hostages is ok. If you take a hostage or hide in a school or populated area you are cleared of all responsibility for any damage caused.

Absolute madness.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Oh and i thought the army liked Bush because he favoured all the army upgrade bills in congress INSTEAD of Kerry who reportedly votes against them and would leave the army standing naked with nothing but socks on in the battlefield.

He did vote against the bill and said it was a "protest" vote.