The Iraq thread 4

[herman01 0]

I was just watching Fox News and found out that Baghdad is safer than Washington D.C. They showed me some numbers and I guess I should believe them. They can shovel the bull crap cant they! It was nice Republican congressman from Iowa presenting this information. Sad part is. People believe the crap thats on Fox News on a daily basis. I really dont like a media source so closely tied to the goverment. I think its really dangerous. This goes either way also Democrat or Republican adminstrations they all are just power hungy politicians.

[Balschoiw 0]

I´m surprised as the US forces in combination with local Iraqui forces are currently planning a major campaign in Baghdad to regain control over the city.

From the Sunday Times, 2006-04-16

Quote[/b] ]The American military is planning a “second liberation of Baghdad†to be carried out with the Iraqi army when a new government is installed.

Pacifying the lawless capital is regarded as essential to establishing the authority of the incoming government and preparing for a significant withdrawal of American troops.

Strategic and tactical plans are being laid by US commanders in Iraq and at the US army base in Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, under Lieutenant- General David Petraeus. He is regarded as an innovative officer and was formerly responsible for training Iraqi troops...

Helicopters suitable for urban warfare, such as the manoeuvrable AH-6 “Little Birds†used by the marines and special forces and armed with rocket launchers and machineguns, are likely to complement the ground attack.

The sources said American and Iraqi troops would move from neighbourhood to neighbourhood, leaving behind Sweat teams — an acronym for “sewage, water, electricity and trash†— to improve living conditions by upgrading clinics, schools, rubbish collection, water and electricity supplies.

Sunni insurgent strongholds are almost certain to be the first targets, although the Shi’ite militias such as the Mahdi army of Moqtada al-Sadr, the radical cleric, and the Iranian-backed Badr Brigade would need to be contained.

President George W Bush and Donald Rumsfeld, the defence secretary, are under intense pressure to prove to the American public that Iraq is not slipping into anarchy and civil war. An effective military campaign could provide the White House with a bounce in the polls before the mid-term congressional elections in November. With Bush’s approval ratings below 40%, the vote is shaping up to be a Republican rout...

The operation is likely to take place towards the end of the summer, giving the newly appointed government time to establish itself. If all goes to plan, US troop withdrawals could take place before the end of the year. In the absence of progress by then, the war may come to be seen by the American public as a lost cause.

There are 140,000 US troops in Iraq. Lieutenant-General John Vines, who stepped down as commander of ground forces in Iraq at the beginning of this year, said it was essential to reduce the numbers.

“There is an incredible amount of stress and I’m worried about it,†said Vines. He added that soldiers were on their third or fourth tours of duty in Iraq: “The war has been going on nearly as long as the second world war and we’re asking a lot of the forces.â€

Vines said there was “an enormous amount of work in Baghdad under way†but cautioned that any onslaught against insurgents would be “fiendishly complicatedâ€. The approach would have to be “locale by localeâ€. He added: “Ultimately we want a police solution in Baghdad.â€

US forces would try to avoid the all-out combat that was used to subdue Falluja in 2004. “If you cut up the city into pieces neighbourhood by neighbourhood, you can prevent it from becoming a major urban fight,†said Gouré.

According to defence sources the Americans could augment their forces with heavily armed AC-130 aircraft and F-16s. But close air support is more likely to be provided by Cobra and Little Bird helicopters to minimise casualties.

The generals involved in planning the battle are architects of the “clear, hold and build†strategy in Iraq, designed to isolate insurgents from the population and prevent them regrouping in urban strongholds as soon as the military’s back is turned.

Vines’s replacement as commander of ground forces is Lieutenant-General Peter Chiarelli, who pioneered the use of force with Sweat to subdue Sadr city, a working-class Shi’ite district of Baghdad, in 2004. On the eve of his return to Iraq this year he described how the tactics had worked and vowed to repeat them...

Another model for operations in Baghdad is an American-led Iraqi-backed military campaign at Tal Afar, a rebel town on the Syrian border. In a speech last month Bush hailed the campaign as an extraordinary success and brandished a letter from the town’s Iraqi mayor praising US forces as our “lion-hearted savioursâ€. But Tal Afar remains far from secure and the military tactics cannot be copied wholesale...

Anybody connected, however remotely, with the administration is seen as a target; 18 traffic police officers have been killed in the past two months. “They were simply doing their duty and trying to prevent traffic jams. There are no traffic lights,†said Major Hussein Khadem of the transport police...

Reuel Marc Gerecht, an expert on Iraq at the neo-conservative American Enterprise Institute, said that while it was essential to bring Baghdad under control, he feared the Americans would leave the bulk of the fighting to the Iraqis and that a showdown could misfire.

“You would have to come down like a hammer on the Sunni areas of Baghdad and go house to house and nobody wants to do that,†Gerecht said. “It’s inevitably going to come and it’s going to be convulsive. The Americans will be there, but not in the numbers needed because American casualty rates will go up.â€

Maybe someone should tell Bush and Rumsfeld that Baghdad is such a safe place, I´m sure they want to know before they start a military campaign in Baghdad during summer...

People should be held accountable for the things they spread, be it FOX news or a absent-minded republican.

Influencing public opinion and making up public opinion has been a major task for the TBA, unfortunally reality bites more than words.

[EiZei 0]

I was just watching Fox News and found out that Baghdad is safer than Washington D.C. They showed me some numbers and I guess I should believe them. They can shovel the bull crap cant they! It was nice Republican congressman from Iowa presenting this information. Sad part is. People believe the crap thats on Fox News on a daily basis. I really dont like a media source so closely tied to the goverment. I think its really dangerous. This goes either way also Democrat or Republican adminstrations they all are just power hungy politicians.

I warmly invite those US congressmen to take a walk in bagdad NOT surrounded by delta operators. Any bets how long until it's BBQ time?

[Jinef 2]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5587990522549547050&q=Soldier

You have probably seen it. It is fake by all concurrence. I admit when I watched it I was skeptical of it's credibility, enough to research it and find further evidence.

A waste of time.

With that said here is another video like it. It is testimony given by Jeff Englehart, *supposed* veteran of the war in Iraq. Be advised, it contains images of warfare so viewer discretion advised. I am not too worried though as this thread is fairly mature and people here are quite desensitised.

http://video.google.com/videopl....Soldier

[herman01 0]

How do you know the first video is fake?

[Jinef 2]

Research it.

> Faked Forms

> Inplausible timeline.

> He is so ashamed of the military yet sports a fresh haircut and wears army clothing ... quite a paradox.

His claims are really too .... extravagant. I can believe most of it but mass graves and desacrating mosques ... 1 person with a video camera could get the US into quite a pickle internationally.

[quicksand 0]

Quote[/b] ]His claims are really too .... extravagant. I can believe most of it but mass graves and desacrating mosques ... 1 person with a video camera could get the US into quite a pickle internationally.

Isn`t that exactly what happend in Haditha?US Marines massacred 24 children,women and civillian men and after covering it up an Iraqi man with a camera went to the scene and found out that they had gunshot wounds instead of sharpnel as the US report claimed.

We should take into consideration that Fallujah went into a complete lockdown,any person that stayed into the city was considered a terrorist threat,any person that ventured the street was to be shot and the embeded journalists are hardly monuments of freedom and objectivity.

There are also quite a few references on google about Jeff Englehart,there appears to be no doubt in anyone`s mind on wether he had taken part in the Fallujah campaign.

Not that it really mathers anymore,there is a reason as to why this thread has plumented in activity

[billybob2002 0]

Research it.

> Faked Forms

> Inplausible timeline.

> He is so ashamed of the military yet sports a fresh haircut and wears army clothing ... quite a paradox.

His claims are really too .... extravagant. I can believe most of it but mass graves and desacrating mosques ... 1 person with a video camera could get the US into quite a pickle internationally.

Jesse Macbeth was not a Army ranger but a boot camp washout. The wikipedia article linked below points out this fact and other inconsistencies about him being a ranger.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Macbeth

Jeff Englehart's story is interesting because he heard on the radio that WP was being used (for what?) and he did not take part in the main fighting in Fallujah. Visit http://www.spectator.se/stambord/?p=1039 about his story. I will not hold it against him that he is a fan of Che and compared President Bush to Hitler. As well, he compared "bunker buster" bombs to the final solution.

[herman01 0]

Good answer, The wikipedia article was backed up by solid sources. He didnt seem like a guy with enough drive to make it through ranger school. Ive never seen a corporal ranger with pin on rank either and I have seen basic training push outs wearing it though. Thanks.

About the WP, The source given above is a blog so its not to reliable of a source. Also in the foot note the author says that the military did use WP. The bodys with burnt flesh and intact clothes are obivious proof of this chemical weapon being used. The military saying that they used it for illumination is bull to, its like when your firing a 50 cal or larger at the enemy you not trying to hit him your just trying to destroy his uniform or weapon, he just got in the way. The mi.itary just wanted to use everthing at their disposal to avoid losses when the troops had to clear the town.They probably believe to that everyone left in the town was an insurgent which is obiviously not true beucuase many Iraqis stayed to protect their property from looting and destruction.

Read bottom of paragraph three and for of this source. I know its not the best source but Im short on time in the sources they use are good.

http://www.asil.org/insights/2005/12/insights051206.html

[Jinef 2]

Instead of civilians trying to govern the military maybe civilians should take an active role in governing their governments.

If I was a commander in Fallujah I would have the same attitude. Sorry civvies, commence bombing. Use as many weapons at my disposal as possible to ensure the soldiers under my command return home in a whole form.

Let me explain:

My politics is left wing when concerning the actions of goverment. Socialism mixed with a reasonable degree of capitalistic gain is a good balance for me. I also believe that the goverment should strive to keep a population active in the decision making which will determine the country's future. As it stands people are subdued with petty shit like Big Brother/Alcohol Culture/BMWs to keep them away from politics.

Using this idealistic method it would have been hard to get the UK into Iraq with such strong public opinion against it.

However once commited to a conflict the military should then get the task completed in the most efficient way, using whatever methods have been devised over the history of warfare. The ideal being that it is very hard to commit the military to a task, but when commited they complete the task with the maximum efficiency, without hinderance of squirmish civilians watching CNN like you lot.

Unfortunately what we have currently is flippant undertaking of war, an apathetic public and a spiteful media. The military however is just the same, it kills people as ever before really quite unconcerned under what context.

[Ironsight 1]

Quote[/b] ]Terror leader al-Zarqawi dead, Iraqi officials say

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the most wanted insurgent in Iraq, is dead, according to an aide to Iraq's prime minister.

Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki was expected to make a public announcement of the death, the details of which are unclear.

Two Pentagon officials told CNN that the government is awaiting al-Maliki's announcement in Baghdad before commenting on the report officially.

One official says the Pentagon is not sure of how the death was confirmed and that there might need to be "additional forensics" done before they can be fully confident the terrorist leader is dead.

Officials could provide no further details at this time.

Terror mastermind al-Zarqawi had eluded U.S. and Iraqi authorities for years, often taunting them with recorded messages and videotapes, including one in which he is believed to behead an American hostage.

He and his followers had taken responsibility for or been accused of perpetrating or aiding suicide bombings, car bombings, beheadings and other acts of brutality.

Soon after Saddam Hussein's regime was toppled, the 39-year-old al-Zarqawi quickly became the face of the insurgency.

Militant Islamic Web sites instantaneously posted his messages, bringing terrorism to cyberspace and reinforcing his support among Islamists.

In one videotaped posting, al-Zarqawi was suspected of being the masked man who beheads U.S. hostage Nicholas Berg, as he lets out piercing screams.

"For the mothers and wives of American soldiers, we tell you that we offered the U.S. administration to exchange this hostage for some of the detainees in Abu Ghraib (prison), and they refused," the voice said. "Coffins will be arriving to you one after the other, slaughtered just like this."

In October 2004, al-Zarqawi pledged his allegiance to al Qaeda founder Osama bin Laden, and renamed his group al Qaeda in Iraq.

With the insurgency spreading, the United States grew more determined to catch or kill the Jordanian-born militant, and increased his bounty to $25 million -- equal to bin Laden's.

"This guy, Zarqawi, has sworn his allegiance to bin Laden. He's declared his intentions," President Bush once said. "This is an enemy with no conscience and they cannot be appeased."

Al-Zarqawi gained recognition in February 2003 when then-Secretary of State Colin Powell appeared before the U.N. Security Council to make his case for the U.S. invasion of Iraq. Iraq, he said, was harboring al-Zarqawi's terrorist network, a "collaborator of Osama bin Laden and his al Qaeda lieutenants."

Two years later, a man thought to be al-Zarqawi said his group had "declared a bitter war against democracy and all those who seek to enact it," and declared all Iraqi candidates and voters enemies of Islam.

Al-Zarqawi fled to Iraq after the U.S.-led attack in Afghanistan and soon made a name for himself as one of the insurgent leaders. In one attack, his network was blamed for the 2003 suicide bombing of U.N. headquarters in Baghdad that killed Sergio Vieira de Mello, the U.N. envoy to Iraq, and 21 other people.

There was an upsurge in car bombings in Iraq in late April 2005, after the transitional national assembly chose a new Cabinet. It was the worst spike of attacks since the U.S.-led push against militants in Falluja the previous fall.

Counterterrorism and intelligence officials believe Al-Zarqawi has forged links with terrorist groups in many other countries, including his native Jordan, where he admitted to the Nov. 11, 2005, triple hotel bombings in Amman that killed 60 people and injured scores, mostly Jordanians.

Jordanian courts have convicted and sentenced al-Zarqawi in absentia.

In December 2005, he was sentenced to death by hanging for a failed suicide bombing at the al-Karama border crossing between Jordan and Iraq. In March, he received 15 years in prison for a plot to attack the Jordanian Embassy in Iraq.

A court handed him a death sentence for the October 2002 assassination of Laurence Foley, with the U.S. Agency for International Development, and convicted him in a December 1999 "millennium" plot against Jordanian hotels.

Al-Zarqawi was born in Zarqa, Jordan, as Ahmed al-Khalayleh. He created his nom de guerre from the name of his hometown, one of the poorest communities in Jordan that is home to Palestinian refugees and Bedouins.

Al-Zarqawi's father, a Palestinian, fought the Israelis in the 1948 Arab-Israeli War that established the state of Israel. The son didn't excel academically, and by his late teens had developed a reputation as a petty thug.

In 1989, he joined the mujahedeen, the loosely aligned, U.S.-backed opposition groups fighting to oust the Soviet army from Afghanistan.

There, al-Zarqawi met a spiritual mentor, Abu Muhammad al Maqdisi, a Kuwaiti-born jihadist leader intent on overthrowing secular Arab governments. The two reunited in 1992 in Jordan, where Al-Zarqawi was jailed for having explosives and plotting against the Jordanian kingdom.

When he was released in 1999, he was described as a committed radical.

While his wife and four children remained in Zarqa, he returned to western Afghanistan, where he oversaw a terrorist training camp in Herat, became an authority on chemical and biological weapons and met bin Laden. The camp was destroyed after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, and al-Zarqawi fled west, to Iraq.

Al-Zarqawi has proved to be slippery prey.

# In November 2004, U.S.-led troops raided the insurgent stronghold of Falluja, only to find that many insurgent leaders, perhaps even al-Zarqawi, had bolted before the attacks.

# In February 2005, U.S. troops received a tip that al-Zarqawi might be heading to a meeting in Ramadi, west of Falluja. Although his vehicle was under surveillance by a Predator spy plane, and checkpoints were set up, the vehicle eluded them, and the militant escaped.

# In April 2005, U.S. troops raided a hospital in Ramadi in the hope of capturing al-Zarqawi -- but struck out. "He was taken to a hospital. When we got the news, we rushed there, but he was out of there," said Iraqi Lt. Gen. Nasser Abadi months later.

# In December 2005, Hussain Kamal, Iraq's deputy minister of interior, admitted that Iraqi security forces had al-Zarqawi in custody in 2004, but released him because they didn't know who he was.

Although al-Zarqawi touted many successes in the insurgency he heads, a senior U.S. military spokesman in Baghdad contended in December 2005 that the militant was "struggling."

"He's struggling because we've taken away a lot of his leadership. He's struggling because we've taken away a lot of his munitions. He's struggling because we've denied him safe havens across Iraq. He's struggling because we've taken away his freedom of movement," said Army Maj. Gen. Rick Lynch.

"But he's still out there with the same stated objective."

CNN's Henry Schuster, Nic Robertson, Jamie McIntyre and Mike Boettcher contributed to this report.

Full article

[Ironsight 1]

Quote[/b] ]Airstrike kills terror leader al-Zarqawi in Iraq

U.S. hails attack on 'godfather of sectarian killing'

Thursday, June 8, 2006; Posted: 6:56 a.m. EDT (10:56 GMT)

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Terrorist leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the most wanted man in Iraq, was killed in a coalition airstrike near Baquba, jubilant U.S. and Iraqi authorities announced Thursday.

The 3-year-old insurgency has "lost its leader," Gen. George Casey, the U.S. military commander in Iraq, told reporters.

Details are still emerging of the operation against the self-proclaimed leader of al Qaeda in Iraq who pledged allegiance to Osama bin Laden.

Al-Zarqawi, who had a $25 million bounty on his head, led foreign and Iraqi fighters in a series of dramatic and high-profile attacks against U.S. and Western targets and he was seen as leader of one of the factions in Iraq that fomented sectarian strife between the Sunni and Shiite communities.

His killing is a major coup for the embattled coalition forces.

"Today is a good day," U.S. Ambassador to Iraq Zalmay Khalilzad told a news conference soon after cheers and applause broke out when Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki announced: "Zarqawi has been killed."

Khalilzad called al-Zarqawi "the godfather of sectarian killing and terror in Iraq" -- and said the death "marks a great success for Iraq and the global war on terror."

"His organization has been responsible for the deaths of thousands of civilians in Iraq and abroad."

The 39-year-old Jordanian-born al-Zarqawi was accused of terrorist links before the Iraq war and soon led the insurgency after the fall of Saddam Hussein's regime. (Watch how al-Zarqawi murdered his way to the most-wanted list -- 2:50)

Multiple attempts have been made to capture or kill him and he was held briefly by Iraqi security forces in 2004 but was released because no one knew who he was.

In London, British Prime Minister Tony Blair called al-Zarqawi's death "a very important moment in Iraq. A blow for al Qaeda in Iraq is a blow for al Qaeda everywhere."

Insider tips

Casey said al-Zarqawi and a key lieutenant, spiritual adviser Sheik Abd-Al-Rahman, were at an isolated safe house outside Baquba at 6:15 p.m. (10:15 a.m. ET) on Wednesday.

"Tips and intelligence from Iraqi senior leaders from his network led forces to al-Zarqawi and some of his associates who were conducting a meeting approximately eight kilometers north of Baquba when the airstrike was launched," he said.

Baquba is a volatile area northeast of Baghdad in Diyala province, a mixed Shiite-Sunni jurisdiction. There have been many roadside bombings and shootings throughout the province and within the week, severed heads were found in fruit boxes there.

"Iraqi police were first on the scene after the air strike, and elements of Multi-National Division North, arrived shortly thereafter," Casey said. "We have been able to identify al-Zarqawi by fingerprint verification, facial recognition and known scars."

In addition to Zarqawi and the spiritual adviser, seven others died in the attack.

Casey wouldn't provide many details about the action but said that "all of these operations are the result of a long, painstaking process where tips and intelligence are received, processed and checked out."

This particular operation had been in the works for a couple of weeks, leading to the location of the house in a wooded area and the meeting, he said.

Al-Maliki indicated that the strike on al-Zarqawi was the "result of cooperation" with ordinary Iraqis, saying that authorities many times have asked the citizenry to provide information.

"This is a message to all those who take violence as a path."

Khalilzad said the demise of al-Zarqawi won't end the violence in Iraq, but it is "an important step in the right direction."

CNN's Jamie McIntyre contributed to this report.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Thats indeed good news, and it seems to be true without any doubt.

Lets hope the power vacuum doesnt let other brutal terorists rise to power!

[Ares1978 0]

Finally some good news.

[quicksand 0]

Who wants to bet this will turn into the worst development for US forces in Iraq?Sure,it is a short term succes without a doubt,proving that no terrorist is invincible.

On the long term,it will play into the hands of the insurgents who are hateful of being represented as leaded by this foreigner and are having trouble recruiting from Iraqis spiteful of the attrocities this criminal commited.

He also would have been much valuable alive or atleast killed by forces on the ground,alas good riddance..

[Guest Ti0n3r]

Good riddance.

[Ironsight 1]

Quote[/b] ]Presser in Baghdad

1. Al-Raqman, spiritual advisor, also killed.

2. Attack killed 7, including a woman and a child.

3. Units involved include 101 AB, 4th ID and US top terror hunting team, Iraqi Police.

4. Operation was a long op involving weeks of tracking and intel on known people who associated with Zarqawi.

5. Decision made with 100% confirmation.

6. Killing was followed by 17 coordinated ops across the Baghdad area. These ops were pre-planned targets that were used in the assembly of the intel that brought down Zarqawi.

7. Raids netted a "treasure trove" of intell.

8. Al-Raqman was the lead to Zarqawi.

9. After attack, Baghdad North QRF secured the scene, took bodies to secure location, then fingerprinted and id'd scars/tattoos for verification.

10. Abu Al-Massari expected to take over for Al-Zarqawi.

11. Did US wait until Iraqi gov't sat final ministers before taking out Zarqawi.

Answer (nutshell) - Nothing at all in terms of timing with those two events.

12. Abu Al Massari - Egyptian, trained in A-stan, involved in the making of IEDs. Came to Iraq in 2002. Helped to create first Al Qaida cell in Baghdad.

- Maj. Gen Bill Caldwell

[kakagoegie 0]

A photo was released by the US military:

A photo of al Zarqawi in his happier days:

[Nemesis6 0]

You've seen the close-ups, now see the far-aways(The actual bomb blowing him to Allah who will, in turn, make goats rape him for all eternity - see it here!

[sanctuary 19]

As it seems confirmed, one less group of murderers.

Good riddance.

[klavan 0]

That's it: a good shot but nothing more.

Al Zarqawi was a fanatic with the only merit of being able to shout out his skizophrenic proclams louder than the man who is going to take over his position.

Nothing will change.

Klavan

[adrenaline red 0]

Good news!

I hope that bastard is rotting in hell.

[Friedchiken 0]

Well, even if this doesn't change anything about the insurgency, good job on part of the Coalition.

It takes guts to fight an enemy like Al Queda.

[EiZei 0]

It takes guts to fight an enemy like Al Queda.

What about fighting the most powerful conventional military force in the world?

And yeah, the world truly is a better place with one fanatical looney less trying to kill people who do not subscribe to his narrow ideas.

[red oct 2]

I was really hoping he would be shown the same mercy his victims had recieved rather than the having a bomb fall on him. but it will make a very good propaganda victory Al Qaida's champion is dead. they will probaly now be a little less willing to move around now that they can't really trust their fellow muslims or even their followers in their own network as was the case w/ Zarqawi