The Iraq thread 4

[SpongeBob 0]

I think there are way too many pussies in the US military

Semper Meow!  

[bn880 5]

Heh, let's not take it too far,

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]The only problem is that any man between 15 and 70 is not allowed to leave the city as he is a military age man.Secondly any man on the streets are to be shot on sight.

So basicly grandpa and nephew are screwed and daddy-he might as well pick up an AK as he would be shot on sight anyway if he ventures on the streets or starve to death and crave for clean water if he stays in his home.

Special considerations have been made.

Quote[/b] ]nice footage there of the execution. Proud of your boys? Sure they are still in control over themselves, no Vietnam syndrom yet?

The guy should of not been put back in his unit a day after he got shot in the face.  Him been uber-tense and knowing about wounded/dead iraqi insurgents who tend to blow up themselves up when coalition/iraqi forces come near them is a bad reciepe.  

BTW, I hope a anti-sat missile hits Al-jazeera sat. for showing the name.

Edit: I know my ex-friend, a marine, wants to rep. him and so.....fuck you...  

[bn880 5]

BTW, I hope a anti-sat missile hits Al-jazeera sat. for showing the name.

Come on! I hope you're not serious.... they are journalists, whatever bias they have anyway, it doesnt even begin to counter our "western" bias on most local news sources.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

I wait for one who can post here and is still such a stranger to reality to defend this war being a success.

Who believes that the current attacks have the purpose to protect the iraqi population from terorists.

By now the soldiers see a sleeping terorist in every iraqi. Like a judge who can give the death penalty but is biased due to prejudice and bad experience.

[bn880 5]

Another article, someone else dares to question and speak out, great:

Quote[/b] ]Fallujah: Murder Made Respectable

Linda S. Heard, solitairemedia@yahoo.co.uk

Iraq is under martial law, complete with curfews and press restrictions. A report in the prestigious Lancet says100 , 000Iraqi civilians have been killed since the start of the invasion. Unemployment is running at70 percent, kidnappings and beheadings are rife, while the breakdown in security has driven every international aid agency out of the country.

But never mind, Fallujah — a town of300 , 000souls of which many have already met their Maker — has finally been pacified. That’ll teach them to lay off foreign mercenaries in future. Oops! I mean contractors, of course. Congratulations USA!

Now that all is right with the world, some200 , 000exiled civilians can return home, provided they still have one that is. A report in the Los Angeles Times describes the city as “a tableau of destroyed buildings, burned-out cars, battered mosques and piles of rubbleâ€. No building was sacrosanct including hospitals and clinics.

The fate of those who stayed behind because they have nowhere else to go or did not want to abandon their belongings and valuables is uncertain. Reports of families burying their dead in gardens, eking out an existence on flour or dates, bleeding to death without medical assistance or becoming ill after drinking contaminated water paint an ugly picture.

We have yet to discover how many newly minted orphans there are, courtesy of the Marines, such as five-year-old Aysha Saleem who lost her parents and grandparents in one of the US military’s “precision strikesâ€. Indeed, we may never know as the mouths of reporters embedded with the troops open and close according to military diktats.

We would never know how US soldiers are breaching the Geneva Conventions but for a renegade video aired by Australian ABC television. In it, a Marine shouts: “I’ve just injured one. He’s between two buildingsâ€. One of his colleagues walks over to a tiny alleyway separating two houses, climbs up onto a metal drum, and fires his weapon in cold blood. “He’s done,†he announces flippantly.

We may never learn whether his victim, exterminated like a rat, was a hardcore foreign fighter, a local insurgent or merely a male resident of Fallujah prevented from leaving. Men aged between 15 and 55 were either rounded up or forced to fight to stay alive. Members of the Scottish Black Watch regiment, whose job they say is to patrol the â€rat runâ€, confirmed the status of fleeing Iraqis as rodents.

In a further breach of the Geneva Conventions, US troops prevented a Red Crescent convoy of emergency aid from reaching the main Fallujah hospital, where wounded residents have been forbidden from entering.

Yet even though the stench of human flesh pervades their nostrils, one Marine held to the view: “We will win the hearts and minds of Fallujah by ridding the city of insurgents. We are doing this by patrolling the streets and killing the enemy.†Those who have lost mothers, daughters, sons and brothers to his bountiful nature will, no doubt, be grateful.

Another such enlightened soldier Lt. Col. Gareth Brandl told the BBC: “The enemy has got a face. He’s called Satan. He lives in Fallujahâ€. Others of his ilk were holding evangelical ceremonies or dressing up as gladiators for chariot races, using horses confiscated from Iraqis, in the mold of the movie Ben Hur.

A third, a music lover, was quoted as saying: “Only two songs send a shiver up my spine. The Marine hymn, and that song by Toby Keith after9 - 11which says ‘we’re gonna kick you up the ass — that’s the American way.†The majority of US soldiers in Iraq still believe the lie that Saddam Hussein had links to Osama Bin Laden and the attacks on America.

For the 48 percent of Americans who voted against the Bush doctrine, this is not the American way. They include a former Marine Staff Sergeant James Massey from Waynesville, North Caroline, who told the WSW website: “We’re committing genocide in Iraqâ€.

He describes his disillusionment thus: “We were like a bunch of cowboys who rode into town shooting up the place. I saw charred bodies in vehicles that were clearly not military vehicles. I saw people dead on the side of the road in civilian clothes.†He recalls how his trigger-happy compatriots mowed down 30 civilians at a checkpoint on a single day.

Iraq’s Girl Blogger who pens Baghdad Burning is similarly angry over Fallujah. She writes: “Iraqis will never forgive this. Never! It’s outrageous. It’s genocide and America — with the help and support of (Iyad) Allawi — is responsible.â€

The land of deprivation, death and degradation, which Iraq has become due to US intervention, is there for all to see but where is the outrage? Why aren’t decent people of every faith up in arms?

Author and philosopher George Orwell may have the answer. “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.â€

“Political language... is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable†goes another of Orwell’s remarkable insights.

But the politicians aren’t the only ones to blame for the horror masquerading as the spread of democracy. Extremist religious leaders are just as culpable as is a supine media, which despite its various mea culpas over its failure to say it like it is, has once again stifled truth.

Think about it. How can individuals, fighting for their own freedom against a foreign power in the towns and cities of their birth and protecting their wives and children, possibly be “terrorists�

And by the same token why should those rampaging foreign armies whose members believe freedom extends to being able to play video games be labeled honorable? Such is the big lie, and one that is the duty of all those who are able to cut through the propaganda, to quash.

There is but one truth for the vast majority of Iraqis. They want no more pretty promises, corrupt plutocrats, superpower pawns or deviant torturers. Amid a growing insurgency, most of all, they want the invaders and their military hardware gone. Who of sound mind and compassionate heart can possibly blame them?

— Linda S. Heard is a specialist writer on Middle East affairs. She welcomes comments

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Quote[/b] ]The only problem is that any man between 15 and 70 is not allowed to leave the city as he is a military age man.Secondly any man on the streets are to be shot on sight.

So basicly grandpa and nephew are screwed and daddy-he might as well pick up an AK as he would be shot on sight anyway if he ventures on the streets or starve to death and crave for clean water if he stays in his home.

Special considerations have been made.

Quote[/b] ]nice footage there of the execution. Proud of your boys? Sure they are still in control over themselves, no Vietnam syndrom yet?

The guy should of not been put back in his unit a day after he got shot in the face.  Him been uber-tense and knowing about wounded/dead iraqi insurgents who tend to blow up themselves up when coalition/iraqi forces come near them is a bad reciepe.  

BTW, I hope a anti-sat missile hits Al-jazeera sat. for showing the name.

Edit: I know my ex-friend, a marine, wants to rep. him and so.....fuck you...  

Billybob. I am not saying that there are reasonable soldiers out there in the american army. But the situation they were put into is just too challenging. None of them has been prepared to understand the muslim rules, none of them has been taught that judging between a terorist, a resistance fighter and a civillian can be that tough. But those differences exist.

Dont you feel a bit Vietnam there? A different culture, soldiers being dressed like civillians and the enemy using strategies that are somewhat slick. By now, you must be aware that the iraqi community is not convinced of the actions by the US military.

[quicksand 0]

Quote[/b] ]...Also, a number of foreigner fighters have been killed/captured in Fallujah so far.

Indeed,and 15 of them.But in such an unjust war,who cares if another despicable lie has been exposed as the propaganda hogwash that it was.

Well the 300,000 Fallujah citizens that are the undiserved victims of US brutality under the pretext of foreign safe heavens and a shadowy Zarqawi who eluded the US gunships every single time do.The Fallujah citizens who are now the subject of a second siege that stands against the most basic human standards that made the Geneva Convention just useless toilet paper do.The tens of thousands Iraqi youths, parents and grandfathers who were trapped in the city and terrorised because they were "military age men" do also.

US Officials: Only 5% of Fallujah Rebels are foreign

Quote[/b] ]CAMP FALLOUJA, Iraq — The battle for the city of Fallouja is giving U.S. military commanders some insight into this country's insurgency, painting a portrait of a home-grown uprising dominated by Iraqis, not foreign fighters.

Of the more than 1,000 men between the ages of 15 and 55 who were captured in intense fighting in the center of the insurgency over the last week, just 15 are confirmed foreign fighters, Gen. George W. Casey, the top U.S. ground commander in Iraq, said Monday

There was evidence that an organized force of foreign fighters was present. One dead guerrilla bore Syrian identification. A number of insurgents believed to be foreigners wore similar black "uniforms," each with black flak vests, webbed gear and weapons superior to those of their Iraqi allies.

But despite an intense focus on the network of Jordanian-born militant Abu Musab Zarqawi by U.S. and Iraqi officials, who have insisted that most Iraqis support the country's interim government, American commanders said their best estimates of the proportion of foreigners among their enemies is about 5%.

The overwhelming majority of insurgents, several senior commanders said, are drawn from the tens of thousands of former government employees whose sympathies lie with the toppled regime of Saddam Hussein, unemployed "criminals" who find work laying roadside bombs for about $500 each and Iraqi religious extremists.

"Over time, it's the former regime elements that are the threat," said Gen. Richard B. Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, who joined Casey for a visit to bases in Baghdad and outside Fallouja before meeting with interim Iraqi Prime Minister Iyad Allawi.

Before the battle, U.S. officials frequently stressed the role of foreign fighters in Fallouja. Last week, as the battle got underway, Myers told reporters that the city was "a major safe haven for former regime elements and foreign fighters, in particular Zarqawi and his folks."

It was not clear how many foreign fighters might have slipped out of Fallouja before the U.S. military began its assault early last week and how many may still be fighting in the southern neighborhoods of the city, where clashes continue.

A loose coalition of foreign and domestic fighters has shown few signs of a centralized command, said senior American defense officials. The Iraqi government and the U.S. military telegraphed the Fallouja offensive with calls for civilians to leave the guerrilla stronghold. But despite those early warnings, the insurgents failed to cut off military supply routes and to reinforce isolated fighters, Myers said.

"There is not someone in charge," Casey said. "There's collaboration between the Islamic extremists, between the foreign fighters and between the former regime elements. And it's a marriage of convenience."

U.S. forces also have found large caches of arms in Fallouja containing a wide variety of weapons, including car bombs ready to be deployed, bomb factories and heavy weapons, scattered among houses, businesses and other buildings.

Commanders cautioned that identifying foreign militants is no exact science. Of the 3,000 fighters that some officials believe were holed up in the city at the dawn of the battle, by U.S. estimates at least 1,600 are dead. However, estimates of the death toll among insurgents have varied widely; many bodies remain hidden in rubble or have not yet been recovered in the streets.

Most of the insurgents "sanitized" themselves, officials said, removing identification and clues to their nationality.

"It's hard to tell," Casey said. American, Iraqi and British troops "are resorting to looking at the Korans in their back pocket and trying to figure out where it was published to try to get some sense of nationality."

Allawi acknowledged in an interview Monday that the insurgents were largely made up of his countrymen, but continued to assert that foreign fighters had often been responsible for suicide car bombings and other spectacular attacks that he said were designed to derail elections scheduled for January.

"We don't have exact numbers and exact figures, but always the foreign elements, terrorists, are used for something else" than the tasks chosen for Iraqi insurgents, Allawi said, citing car bombings in particular. "The terrorists are trying to hurt the multinational force and us, to disrupt the police, to disrupt the army, the national guard."

He called those assaults a national "campaign of intimidation."

Allawi has firsthand knowledge of that campaign. Three members of his family were recently kidnapped by insurgents. The two female relatives were released Sunday, Iraqi officials confirmed, but a male cousin remained in insurgent hands.

"The insurgents will kidnap family members, they will murder government officials. They will murder police. We have found that some of the most effective leaders in the national guard or the Iraqi police are murdered or assassinated," said Maj. Gen. Richard F. Natonski, commander of the 1st Marine Division. "I think we're seeing right now the last stand of the real hard-liners."

The insurgents' goal, added Casey, is to keep minority Sunni Muslims — many of whom sympathize with Saddam Hussein, their former Sunni president — from participating in the January election process, undermining its legitimacy.

"They've had to go to the intimidation to keep the Sunni from participating in the political process, because they were losing," Casey said.

U.S. and Iraqi strategists plan to respond by supplementing Iraqi police with Iraqi national guard or army troops, possibly supported by U.S. forces.

The foreign fighters that have joined the insurgency appear to have largely crossed through Syria, military officials said. A small number of Syrians have been captured, along with two Moroccans caught on the first night of the offensive last week. A campaign of intimidation has prompted Iraqi border guards to abandon their posts, U.S. defense officials said.

Iraqi government and American authorities alike blame the Syrian government.

"It's hard to believe Syria doesn't know it's going on," Myers said.

"Whether or not they're supporting it is another question. That said, you could say if Syria wanted to stop it they could stop it, or stop it partially."

At the urging of U.S. forces, the Iraqi government shut down the border crossing to Syria at the western Iraqi city of Qusaybah and allowed only commercial vehicles to pass at one Syrian crossing and one Jordanian site, Natonski said. Men of fighting age have not been allowed to cross, he added.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]

Indeed,and 15 of them.But in such an unjust war,who cares if another despicable lie has been exposed as the propaganda hogwash that it was.

Dead

Also

Quote[/b] ]

Most of the insurgents "sanitized" themselves, officials said, removing identification and clues to their nationality.

Quote[/b] ]

Well the 300,000 Fallujah citizens that are the undiserved victims of US brutality under the pretext of foreign safe heavens and a shadowy Zarqawi who eluded the US gunships every single time do.T

Most of been my imagination but were not hostages found, a bomb-making "factory", "bloody" houses, and etc. found in Fallujah? I thought the Fallujah "resistance" was in control. Also, the "resistance" excuted a few foregin fighters that did not want to fight.

[SpongeBob 0]

Quote[/b] ]U.S. Marines Rally Round Iraq Probe Comrade

Tue Nov 16, 2004 09:29 AM ET

By Michael Georgy

FALLUJA, Iraq (Reuters) - U.S. Marines rallied round a comrade under investigation for killing a wounded Iraqi during the offensive in Falluja, saying he was probably under combat stress in unpredictable, hair-trigger circumstances.

Marines interviewed on Tuesday said they didn't see the shooting as a scandal, rather the act of a comrade who faced intense pressure during the effort to quell the insurgency in the city.

"I can see why he would do it. He was probably running around being shot at for days on end in Falluja. There should be an investigation but they should look into the circumstances," said Lance Corporal Christopher Hanson.

"I would have shot the insurgent too. Two shots to the head," said Sergeant Nicholas Graham, 24, of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. "You can't trust these people. He should not be investigated. He did nothing wrong."

The military command launched an investigation after video footage showed a U.S. Marine shooting a wounded and unarmed man in a mosque in the city on Saturday. The man was one of five wounded and left in the mosque after Marines fought their way through the area.

A pool report by NBC correspondent Kevin Sites said the mosque had been used by insurgents to attack U.S. forces, who stormed it, killing 10 militants and wounding the five. Sites said the wounded had been left for others to pick up.

A second group of Marines entered the mosque on Saturday after reports it had been reoccupied. Footage from the embedded television crew showed the five still in the mosque, although several appeared to be close to death, Sites said.

He said a Marine noticed one prisoner was still breathing.

A Marine can be heard saying on the pool footage provided to Reuters Television: "He's fucking faking he's dead."

"The Marine then raises his rifle and fires into the man's head," Sites said.

NBC said the Marine, who had reportedly been shot in the face himself the previous day, said immediately after the shooting: "Well, he's dead now."

THOROUGH PROBE PROMISED

The Marine commander in Falluja, Lieutenant General John Sattler, said his men followed the law of conflict and held themselves to a high standard of accountability.

"The facts of this case will be thoroughly pursued to make an informed decision and to protect the rights of all persons involved," he said.

Marines have repeatedly described the rebels they fought against in Falluja as ruthless fighters who didn't play by the rules. They say the investigation is politically motivated.

"It's all political. This Marine has been under attack for days. It has nothing to do with what he did," said Corporal Keith Hoy, 23.

Rights group Amnesty International said on Monday both sides in the Falluja fighting had broken the rules of war governing the protection of civilians and wounded combatants.

Gunnery Sergeant Christopher Garza, 30, favored an investigation but like other Marines said the Pentagon should weigh its decision carefully.

"He should have captured him. Maybe the insurgent had some valuable information. There may have been mitigating circumstances. Maybe his two buddies died in Falluja," he said.

Sites said: "I have witnessed the Marines behaving as a disciplined and professional force throughout this offensive. In this particular case, it certainly was a confusing situation to say the least."

The U.S. military has been embarrassed by scandals in Iraq, most prominently the Abu Ghraib affair in which at least eight U.S. soldiers have been tried or face courts-martial over the abuse of prisoners at the jail outside Baghdad.

There have also been several cases in which soldiers have been charged with wrongfully killing Iraqis during operations.

[sputnik monroe 102]

Well the "resistance" were so good to the people. We should of left them in control.

[mr burns 132]

here´s another street fighting video from fallujah,

not as intense as the one albert posted but it may be of interest for some of you: falluja_urban.wmv

[ralphwiggum 6]

Well the "resistance" were so good to the people. We should of left them in control.

yeah. in fact we should not have gone into Iraq to begin with.

Quote[/b] ]A U.S. Marine takes a nap as his unit gets mail delivered to the front line in Falluja on Tuesday.

wonder if this guy knows that he is going to end up on national TV...

maybe USPS can use this.

'USPS - we deleiver even to th frontlines.'

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/11/16/iraq.main/index.html

Quote[/b] ]BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- U.S. Army and Iraqi forces launched an anti-insurgent offensive Tuesday in the northern city of Mosul, a military spokeswoman said, as coalition forces continued a similar assault on rebels in Falluja.

The joint-force operations have been working to end the insurgency in advance of national elections scheduled for the end of January.

Commanders initiated the Mosul attack on the western side of the the city at the request of provincial Gov. Duraid Kashmoula, said Army Capt. Angela Bowman.

The troops involved in the offensive involve two brigades, one U.S. and the other Iraqi. The number of soldiers in a brigade is roughly 3,000 to 5,000.

According to a military statement released Tuesday, "All bridges in the city are closed to civilian vehicle and pedestrian traffic. These operations are targeting isolated pockets of insurgent fighters that continue to operate in the city."

[bn880 5]

here´s another street fighting video from fallujah,

not as intense as the one albert posted but it may be of interest for some of you: falluja_urban.wmv

Yeah, interesting how they cut out the bit in the first clip when one of the soldiers on the right gets his hand blown apart...

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Well the "resistance" were so good to the people. We should of left them in control.

typical reply worth just one cent!

[ericz 0]

Quote[/b] ]Indeed,and 15 of them.But in such an unjust war,who cares if another despicable lie has been exposed as the propaganda hogwash that it was.

Well the 300,000 Fallujah citizens that are the undiserved victims of US brutality under the pretext of foreign safe heavens and a shadowy Zarqawi who eluded the US gunships every single time do.The Fallujah citizens who are now the subject of a second siege that stands against the most basic human standards that made the Geneva Convention just useless toilet paper do.The tens of thousands Iraqi youths, parents and grandfathers who were trapped in the city and terrorised because they were "military age men" do also.

"Don't cry for me Argentina".......

[denoir 0]

It's a funny thing how those that show the least emathy for the plight of the Iraqis are usually the same ones that whine most about 9/11. One would expect it to be the other way around, but apparently it isn't.

[ericz 0]

Quote[/b] ]What do you expect, kind of silly to send Marines on a humanitarian mission to teach the values of democracy. Faludja is fucked up. The people are frightened and civillians have suffered in great numbers. Noone seems to worry. killing children or just people that look like civillians is the american idea of "preemptive strike" well you never know, could be a terorist

They were taught about the evil doers hijacking Iraq but they see that those fighters are capable to sympathise with the population. So like in Vietnam the enemy is not easy to recognise. They all look the same, quite a challenging for a person who was thought "not to think, trust your weapon, Marine!"

Watching the footages that recently came out of Iraq it appears to me that those soldiers have lost grip with reality. Lots of Macho slogans, lots of inhumane perspectives. Texan Cowboys that can aim at civillians just because it "might" be a terorist. But the worst is, noone of their comrades would ask "what have you done?".

Nothing left of the idea of cheering Iraqis that joyfully shout "hello Mister, hello Mister".

But we all know the beautiful parades that are going to be organised for the returning heros that protected homeland security far away in Iraq. That fought for democracy and the liberty of the iraqi people. What a fucking yoke!

Not blaming them. Most of these soldiers are not old enough to control and stabilise their character. Their education is limited to Fox and some few years no-show at school.

How are they supposed to understand or digest what they are doing there. Naives Frontfutter!

I am not amused.

Who cares if your not amused, war is not for your amusement.  Kindly post your credentials as a military person, better yet please list your combat experience.  

I can tell you are outraged by all  the death and destruction that is occurring in Fallujah and thats admirable.  However, you say such silly things.  Particularly your characterization of our troops.  "Most of these soldiers are not old enough to control and stabilise their character. Their education is limited to Fox and some few years no-show at school.

How are they supposed to understand or digest what they are doing there. !"

I suppose you have conducted studies to arrive at that conclusion.  Prounouncements like the one you stated above are truly a joke.  Perhaps its your youth that makes you so naive.

[denoir 0]

New video 'shows Hassan murder'  [bBC]

Quote[/b] ]

A video apparently showing the murder of aid worker Margaret Hassan seems to be genuine, says the British Embassy. Mrs Hassan's brothers and sisters have said in a statement they believe she is dead, saying: "Our hearts are broken."

Her Iraqi husband, Tahseen Ali Hassan, has made a plea for her body to be returned to him "to rest in peace".

Mrs Hassan, who has Irish, British and Iraqi nationality, was seized by an unknown group in the Iraqi capital on 19 October.

Several news agencies have reported a tape showing her murder has surfaced in Iraq on Tuesday. Arabic TV news channel Al Jazeera has said it has had a copy of the tape for several days but has chosen not to broadcast it. And Mr Hassan has appealed to the kidnappers to return his wife's body.

"I want to know if she is alive or dead. If she's dead I want to know where she is so I can bury her in peace," he told Reuters news agency.

Mrs Hassan's brothers and sisters, Michael, Deirdre, Kathryn and Geraldine Fitzsimons, described her as a "friend of the Arab world, to people of all religions"

They added: "We have kept hoping for as long as we could, but we now have to accept that Margaret has probably gone and at last her suffering has ended."

'Unforgivable'

She had goodwill towards everyone, they said.

"She had no prejudice against any creed. She dedicated her whole life to working for the poor and vulnerable, helping those who had no-one else," the statement read. They described her murder as "unforgivable", adding: "The gap she leaves will never be filled."

Mrs Hassan was driving to work as director of aid agency Care's Iraq operations when she was seized. The agency has since halted work in the country. The 59-year-old, who has lived in Iraq for 30 years, appeared in several videos during her captivity calling for Britain to withdraw from Iraq, and for women prisoners to be freed.

[Blake 0]

Animals.

[HotShot 0]

New video 'shows Hassan murder'  [bBC]

And from 'billybob' a few pages back...

Quote[/b] ]Hmm...It seems a female western was found disemboweled in Fallujah yesterday.

Could be same person??

[quicksand 0]

Quote[/b] ]Dead

Billybob I am not your math teacher nor am I suposed to check if you need eyeglasses.Read the article,FFS the part when it explicitly points out that only 5% of the rebels are foreign is on the second paragraph of the article and in the title too.So let me help you a bit on this one if there were 3,000 rebels in the city that makes a measly 150 foreign fighters who were suposed to be the heart of the Fallujah insurgency as brandashed by the US appointed Iraqi government and TBA.

They were also suposed to be the ones who were the most comited in fighting for the city hoping to achieve martyrdom cleary all that was propagandistic rubbish.

Quote[/b] ]Also..

Seriously Billybob you are making a clown of yourself with your selective reading habbit.In front of irefutable edvidene such as Marine commanders contradicting what TBA worked so hard to paint of the Iraqi insurgency and make no mistake about it it's not an easy thing to do and it's safe to say they did their study before reaching such an unsatisfing conclusion you still clinch to a paragraph that suits your own opinions.I hope you will soon realise that your bias is severing your judgment to such an extent that there is no reasoning in you.

But despite an intense focus on the network of Jordanian-born militant Abu Musab Zarqawi by U.S. and Iraqi officials, who have insisted that most Iraqis support the country's interim government, American commanders said their best estimates of the proportion of foreigners among their enemies is about 5%.

The overwhelming majority of insurgents, several senior commanders said, are drawn from the tens of thousands of former government employees whose sympathies lie with the toppled regime of Saddam Hussein, unemployed "criminals" who find work laying roadside bombs for about $500 each and Iraqi religious extremists.

"Over time, it's the former regime elements that are the threat," said Gen. Richard B. Myersgovernment and other US military officials.

, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, who joined Casey for a visit to bases in Baghdad and outside Fallouja before meeting with interim Iraqi Prime Minister Iyad Allawi.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Read the article,FFS the part when it explicitly points out that only 5% of the rebels are foreign is on the second paragraph of the article and in the title too.

I posted...

Quote[/b] ] Also, a number of foreigner fighters have been killed/captured in Fallujah so far

you posted...

Quote[/b] ]

Indeed,and 15 of them.But in such an unjust war,who cares if another despicable lie has been exposed as the propaganda hogwash that it was.

from the article...

Quote[/b] ]

captured in intense fighting in the center of the insurgency over the last week, just 15 are confirmed foreign fighters,

I posted dead aka know the number of dead. Got a problem? You posted 15 captured not dead.

Quote[/b] ]Seriously Billybob you are making a clown of yourself with your selective reading habbit.In front of irefutable edvidene such as Marine commanders contradicting what TBA worked so hard to paint of the Iraqi insurgency and make no mistake about it it's not an easy thing to do and it's safe to say they did their study before reaching such an unsatisfing conclusion you still clinch to a paragraph that suits your own opinions.I hope you will soon realise that your bias is severing your judgment to such an extent that there is no reasoning in you.

I love clowns! You know what "a number" is? I posted hostages have been found; a bomb making "factory" has been found; "bloody" houses have found; and etc... enough justification to go in and take care of business. Who gives a flying fuck if foreign fighters are there...jeez

BTW, I'm not TBA!!

Anyway, I thought they were no foreign fighters in Fallujah.

[brgnorway 0]

Quote[/b] ]"I can see why he would do it. He was probably running around being shot at for days on end in Falluja. There should be an investigation but they should look into the circumstances," said Lance Corporal Christopher Hanson.

"I would have shot the insurgent too. Two shots to the head," said Sergeant Nicholas Graham, 24, of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. "You can't trust these people. He should not be investigated. He did nothing wrong."

Oh poor little kid running around in Falluja while those brutal iraqi terrorists shoot after him all day. Of course he's somewhat stressed by all those evil dark skinned men "who cannot be trusted - who lives in the town of satan and are so busy firing at him when they're not  chopping heads off on the telly. I really feel for him little kiddie soldier who gets so stressed that he is almost obliged to kill the unarmed wounded man lying on the floor. And we would all do it, right? No matter what, right? Even if they clearly had control over the situation, right?

I hope he will burn in hell for a cowardly murder like that- but at least he'll be sentenced to jail for war crimes. There's no fucking excuse for what he did! He's a soldier and should act like on - instead he acted like a cold blooded murderer!

Something tells me your soldiers are facing far worse things than Falluja to come in the future. You are clearly not winning the hearts and minds of the iraqi population and Allawi is not Mr. Populare this or the next year. Iraq will never be stabilized as long as your lads are supposed to secure the coming elections - never mind authorize the canditates.

[NavyEEL 0]

I hope he will burn in hell for a cowardly murder like that- but at least he'll be sentenced to jail for war crimes. There's no fucking excuse for what he did! He's a soldier and should act like on - instead he acted like a cold blooded murderer!

A bit harsh, don't you think?  All we know is what was shown on the videotape, nothing more.  You also have to account for the fact that this Marine was wounded in the face the day prior--he shouldn't have even been back on the frontlines so soon.  I'm sure he was on edge and, having seen his friends killed in a similar situation in which a wounded man rolled a grenade out, then his response was somewhat to be expected.

Since you're so quick to lash out at us, then feel free to step in and take care of the situation yourself. It's much easier to sit back and criticize someone's actions from home while sitting in a chair. Who knows--had you been in that young Marine's position, you might have done the same thing.