The Iraq thread 4

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Economy? Please.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTIO.....0.html

National Total:

1. Moral Values (22%)

2. Economy/Jobs (20%)

3. Terror. (19%)

4. Iraq (15%)

[Blake 0]

So? That's what I said. Moral values were more important than Iraq and especially for Bush supporters.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]So? That's what I said. Moral values were more important than Iraq and especially for Bush supporters.

What's your point posting saying that their efforts are not has high the other issues? Many americans (does not matter if they are a dem. or rep. or i.) respect their efforts and know they will do their jobs. However, they do know that the Iraq is not the only thing on the plate. BTW, those are the people who were polled.

[Blake 0]

Quote[/b] ]What's your point posting saying that their efforts are not has high the other issues?

If my country would be at war and in election I would elect the man who started the war based on his opinion on some cells, abortion or his church attendance - you don't see the irony? As if there were no other important issues in the world

[Tex -USMC- 0]

I feel for the Black Watch... they've been part of such a commendable effort in the south, and their political leadership refuses to stand up and hold the US accountable for its failures in holding up its end of the bargain.

[Pathy 0]

Quote[/b] ]This is what you get when the fucking media reports exactly where our lads are going to be deployed. I say we round up the press, conscript them, and send them to do peacekeeping duties.....

If you want to point fingers,the man responsable for this political motivated manouver would be a safe bet by my account.

Yes, but dont try and absolve the press from blame, any well organised insurgent can look on, for example, the BBC website, and see just exactly whats going to happen next.

And before anyone says "OMG dont be dumb, insurgents dont use the internet!", that aussie journalist who was kidnapped just after Ken Bigley was killed and talked his way out....part of the reason why he was released was because they googled his name and found he had been critical of the government in his reports before....they then told him he wasnt a target and released him. These guys were, BTW, all Iraqis. I read the account the journalist himself wrote on his kidnapp.

Anyway the point is, they arent as low tech as maybe some of you would like to think, and if its reported in the UK media that a deployment is going to take place, then they will also know about it. Thus our media need to learn some fucking responsibility with what they report

Sure they will recognise warriors instead of Bradleys, but telling them over a week in advance we were coming is total BS.

[Blake 0]

The upcoming offensive in Falluja is widely advertised also so I'm sure the insurgents in the city have not just sat all this time with thumb in their a**.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but during invasion phase there was censorship taking place, but it seems it's pretty nonexistent now.

They just showed a bridge built by British engineers on BBC World to some swampy region, apparently in a hurry because of possible enemy presence. Then they interviewed the Captain which said the bridge is 'an easy target'. Probably not that useless information to some...plus if insurgents strike targets which have been shown in TV and people know the morale effect is mutiplied.

Not comparing, but the effects of TV showing US embassy being overrun by VC in Saigon during Tet Offensive really was a big morale blow to the US public.

[Pathy 0]

Yup, its going to be a real nice fight unless the USA has got a suprise the insurgents werent expecting up thier sleeves.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

Wow, the media completely obliterating OPSEC?! I've never heard such blasphemy.

Falklands too....

[Pathy 0]

Yeh, Goose Green....Nice one, BBC world service!

[denoir 0]

Big operation to 'sweep & clear' Falluja has been mounting up for some time now. This time they're going to sweep the entire City if I've understood correctly.

But I bet the insurgents have been using this time to reinforce their positions so the battle will probably be very bloody.

We'll see. Last time they took up an urban fight and it worked. I would however not rule out something like what happened during the invasion - the armed resistance bleeds away and blends into the general population, waiting for a better moment.

That seems to be the pattern at least in other places as well. A good example is al-Sadr who starts a fight every few months, makes a lot of trouble and then makes some sort of deal.

In Fallujah they had a temporary force in place, led by an ex-Saddam general - but they joined the rebels after a while.

[quicksand 0]

I've read an article wrote by a freelance reporter revealing the Iraqi rebels are spreading money to civillians for even stronger suport in the city,digging tunnels,building fortification,stockpiling weapons near every streat and mining the roads.

They also have collected enough food,gasoline and other basic necesities to enable them to survive for months under a heavy siege.

Melting away is not an option.Fallujah is the strategic capital of the Iraqi resistance that gave them a moral boost to continue their fight across the country,they won the loyality of the Fallujah brigade are controlling the police and have instituted a Shura Council with leaders that are either fierce suporters of the rebels or rebels themselves and not even going through how fierce they fought to remain in control of the city.

There will be showdown,no doubt about it.At what cost is the question.The Association of Muslim Scholars-the most influential organisation of all Sunnis in Iraq-vowed to boycott the ellections,start a civil desobience capaign,various groups are threatening to attack oil pipelines like they never had before and Moqtada Al-Sadr said he would suport the mujahedeen Iraq which could be a sign of a new uprising ,Ramadi has been stedeadly falling into resistance hands for a while now,so hard to predict how all of this will unfold.

[Akira 0]

Link

Dunno if this is accurate as I have only found this, and they are unclear where the remains where found, the chances of discovery, or whether they were testing exclusively for Scott, etc.

Quote[/b] ]Search for Speicher: Testing Underway on New Remains

By Charlene Shirk

First Coast News

JACKSONVILLE, FL -- First Coast News has learned a body has been found in Iraq and DNA testing is underway.

Multiple sources tell First Coast News Captain Scott Speicher's family has been notified.

They will not disclose the details of why they believe these are his remains only to say they have reason to feel confident these are his remains.

Test results are expected within weeks.

When I sat down with Buddy Harris, who was Speicher's best friend and is now married to Speicher's widow, he told me the family would never give up until they found what happened to him and brought him home.

They may be well on their way to learning the answer and putting this mystery and this man to rest.

From the deck of the USS Saratoga in the Red Sea., a husband and father of two from Jacksonville prepares to fight for the first time. 33 year old Lt. Commander Michael Scott Speicher, also known as "Spike", is ready for take off.

It's 1 a.m. January 17th, Speicher is part of the first mission flown over Iraq during the first Gulf War.

Within hours his squadron is in the heat of battle. The mission is deemed a success.

But when Speicher's unit returns He is the only one who is not accounted for.

From the first moments, fellow pilots and squadron mates believe the highly skilled Speicher ejected and survived.

But within hours the Pentagon announces Speicher is dead, killed in action in a mid-air explosion. There would be no recovery mission.

In 1993, U.S. Intelligence finds an American plane in better condition than expected in a remote desert in Iraq.

The plane's identification numbers confirm it is Speicher's plane.

The cockpit canopy was found some distance from the wreckage, raising the theory that Speicher ejected, survived and was captured.

First Coast News has learned the human remains, thought to be Speichers, were not found at the crash site.

The remains being tested were found in another part of Iraq.

After the initial discovery of the crash site, in an unprecedented move, the Pentagon changed Speicher's status from Killed in Action, to Missing in Action, and then later, Missing Captured.

The president even included Speicher and the fact that he was still in Iraq in a speech he gave to the nation.

Shortly into the second Gulf War, the initials M.S.S were found in a Baghdad prison.

Sources are now telling First Coast News they have information that indicates Speicher was captured after the crash and held as a prisoner for some time before he died.

However, DNA tests performed on the materials used to make the markings failed to confirm those initials found in a cell were made by Michael Scott Speicher.

His friends and family were not discouraged saying they knew the wall had been painted over several times and other things found in other prison cells supported their theory that Scott had been held at that prison.

We were the only local news station in country to sit down and talk with Buddy Harris, Speicher's best friend and now husband to Joanne Speicher Harris.

Buddy told us then that the family would never stop asking the question of what happened to Scott. And they were prepared no matter the answer.

"I cannot foresee a situation where we would just give up and go away.

I won't do it and I know my family backs me on his 100 percent in not giving up."

The family went through this once before.

Several years ago, then President of Iraq Saddam Hussein sent a pound of flesh to the United States claiming it was the remains of Scott Speicher.

The pilot's children at that time provided their DNA so the remains could be tested.

That test proved the remains were not their fathers.

The family has been through a roller coaster of emotions over the years.

They have learned to be very cautious about any new information they receive.

We expect they are taking the same approach with this latest news.

This remains a very big development.

If the tests indicate the remains are the missing the navy pilot Scott Spiechers', they will finally have an answer to the question they've asked for more than a decade.

We contacted the family's attorney, Cindy Laquidara, Thursday night for reaction to this new discovery. She had no comment for us at this time.

Now just two and-a-half months shy of the fourteenth anniversary of Speicher's disappearance, the answer may finally come in the form of DNA.

An American hero... A First Coast son... may finally return home after a very long mission.

[Acecombat 0]

One thing caught my eye here:

Quote[/b] ]When I sat down with Buddy Harris, who was Speicher's best friend and is now married to Speicher's widow

Isnt this a bit too early? They arent even over his death yet and hes married his best friends wife ... phwoar .. whats the world getting to these days ...

[SpongeBob 0]

One thing caught my eye here:

Quote[/b] ]When I sat down with Buddy Harris, who was Speicher's best friend and is now married to Speicher's widow

Isnt this a bit too early? They arent even over his death yet and hes married his best friends wife  ... phwoar .. whats the world getting to these days ...  

he was shot down during the first Gulf War.

[Badgerboy 0]

Yes, reportably by a MiG 25 Foxbat. I believe he was flying an F/A-18 at the time.

[Acecombat 0]

One thing caught my eye here:

Quote[/b] ]When I sat down with Buddy Harris, who was Speicher's best friend and is now married to Speicher's widow

Isnt this a bit too early? They arent even over his death yet and hes married his best friends wife  ... phwoar .. whats the world getting to these days ...  

he was shot down during the first Gulf War.  

OK my bad then

I didnt knew the Iraqi airforce scored a kill on a USAF jet , how come a Foxbat got the better of a F/A18 , arent the USAF supposedly the rulers of the sky with their AWACS and sophisticated radars and super fleet of planes , i mean comparatively the Iraqis werent much in terms od radar systems and warning systems.

[shinRaiden 0]

www.freescottspeicher.com

Quote[/b] ]

During Desert Storm, none of the limited information available on coalition personnel lost was linked to the fate of LCDR Speicher. No information during the Gulf war conclusively revealed how LCDR Speicher's aircraft was destroyed. Postwar analysis suggests that LCDR Speicher's Hornet was downed by an Iraqi Air Force aircraft firing an air-to-air missile. LCDR Speicher's aircraft crashed in the desert west of Baghdad.

This could mean all sorts of things, basically from war-time data whether his aircraft was lost from attack or malfunction is unclear. It suggests though that based on post-op guesswork, as well as crashsite investigation and partial flight recorder recovery that his Hornet was hit hard at the same time they were engaging a Mig 25 squadron.

Cmdr. Robert E. Stumpf, USN (Ret.)

Quote[/b] ]

In the minutes leading up to the shoot down, other pilots in the strike group, perhaps Speicher himself, obtained radar contact on an Iraqi fighter closing the group. One American pilot maneuvered for and acquired a weapons solution on the enemy fighter. In accordance with U. S. rules of engagement then in effect, this pilot requested clearance to fire from the AWACS command and control, while the two opposing fighters were approaching each other at better than Mach 2. At such speeds and with the particular geometry of this intercept, the weapons-launch window was open for only seconds. The clearance to fire was never given, the launch window closed, and the Iraqi fighter got away. Those most familiar with the engagement are convinced that this Iraqi fighter went from hunted to hunter, and moments later downed Speicher's aircraft with an air-to-air missile.

Detailed 6-Part analysis of this case by The Virginian-Pilot

(lengthy and detailed covering all aspects of the case)

[kerosene 0]

Missing evidence could foil Saddam prosecution, claims report

Crucial evidence for the forthcoming trials of Saddam Hussein and other senior Iraqi officials is likely to have been lost or tainted because US-led forces have failed to safeguard official documents and the remains of victims in mass graves, the New York-based group Human Rights Watch says in a report out today.

In the months after the invasion, they failed to stop people looting thousands of official documents, or to stop relatives of "disappeared" persons from digging up remains found in some mass grave sites, according to the report, titled Iraq: The State of the Evidence.

The invading forces subsequently failed to put in place the professional expertise and help necessary to ensure proper classification and exhumation procedures. As a result, it was very likely that key evidence had been lost or tainted.

The report was a timely reminder, on the day George Bush's re-election was confirmed, of the major headaches that lie in wait in Iraq.

full article

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1342746,00.html

[turms 0]

Series of carbomb/suicidebomb attacks in Samarra..4 now

EDIT: Samarra, not baghdad

[python3 0]

heh, i thought they "liberated samarra"?

[quicksand 0]

Iraqi Rebels Invite Media to 'Embed' in Falluja

Quote[/b] ]BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Falluja insurgents besieged by U.S. and Iraqi troops on Saturday invited journalists to "embed" with them to report their side of the war.

"All media will be allowed into Falluja to witness the crusade against Islam and see the real face of America. U.S. media will not be excluded," said a statement by the Falluja Mujahideen Shura (council), composed of insurgent leaders, tribal chiefs and Sunni Muslim clerics.

"We will protect and transport them to the location of the events. There will be a special building for the journalists."

The offer mimics a practice introduced by U.S.-led forces for last year's Iraq invasion in which reporters are attached to military units and live alongside the troops.

Dozens of journalists are embedded with U.S. Marines set for an assault on Falluja, 50 km (32 miles) west of Baghdad, and another rebel-held Sunni Muslim city, Ramadi, further west.

The few journalists remaining in Falluja, which has been the target of repeated U.S. air strikes for weeks, are mainly Iraqis, although some work for foreign news outlets.

An Iraqi cameraman filming for Reuters Television, Dhia Najim, was killed by a U.S. sniper in Ramadi this week.

Falluja residents say air raids often destroy homes and kill civilians. The U.S. military says they are carefully targeted and avoid accidental casualties.

A U.S. offensive to capture Falluja and Ramadi from what the government describes as Saddam Hussein loyalists and foreign Islamist fighters is expected any day.

It would be intresting to see if news agencies pick up the offer,all though it's highly doubtful that foreign reporters would be sent to the city,Iraqi representatives could be used as they have been playing an increasing role for such agencies.

[Pathy 0]

I watched a BBC report on British troops in Bagdad, following them around on patrol. I'd just like to say the level of professionalism, and the attitude and compassion of these soldiers towards the Iraqi civilians makes me really proud to be able to say "These guys are part of OUR countries army"

Men of the Black Watch, i salute you

[Donnervogel 0]

hmmm looks like the attack could be delayed a bit...

Iraqi briefed on Falluja plans missing

Now that's something I worried about for some time already. All those "precisssion bombings" hitting civilians and stuff. I get the impression the US is relying on the wrong people to get and give information...

[red oct 2]

i think we have been having that problem from the start. its no wonder the new Iraqi National Guard gets nothing more than new uniforms and a couple technicals to get around. the dilemia is that if we don't recruit somebody, than we will never be able to leave. the current force is half of its strength because of desertions, and fatalities. were probaly lucky to have that many.