The Iraq thread 4

[Blake 0]

Birthday and Airforce, that's nice.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]Wow after 4 threads it looks like we are at the same place in the argument.

I don´t think so. Now we know that Saddam had no WMD´s, was not part of the 9/11 thing and was not able to pulverise the UK within 45 minutes. We know how reports have been manipulated, we know that there is no international backing for unilateral US wars and we know that all the proposals we stated here have become true. We know that US soldiers torture(d) in Iraq, we know that more civillians get killed in military actions than targets and we know that the TBA "concept" for Iraq obviously doesn´t work. We know that elections in the US are more important than lives of US servicemen in Iraq, we know that security is a word Iraqis dream off and we know that the country is not on a way to peace.

So if you think we´re still at the same position, you have either not read the threads or refuse to accept reality.

Quote[/b] ]I do fully support our troops in Iraq, and as my B-day nears this October, I plan on joing the Air Force, to do my part, for my country. At this point in time, I am seroiusly considering voulentering to go to Iraq. I want to do my part, for something I believe in. I have no disrie to be killed or even kill, but I will try to do wht my country asks of me.

It´s neither your country that asks you, nor the country of Iraq. It´s your president.

Quote[/b] ]Uhhg, this is a terrible post..........

Agreed.

Back from fantasyland:

More Than 80 Killed in U.S. Led Offensive on Iraqi City

Quote[/b] ]More than 80 people were killed today in a major US and Iraqi army assault to retake control of the northern city of Samarra.

Heavy gunfire and explosions rocked Samarra, an insurgent stronghold north of Baghdad.

At least 80 bodies and more than 100 wounded were taken to thr city’s general hospital, said Dr Khalid Ahmed. The hospital was running out bandages, oxygen and other supplies, he said.

Coalition troops moved into the city after midnight under cover of heavy fire, securing government and police buildings early today, the US command said.

Residents cowered in their homes as tanks and warplanes pounded the city. The sound of loud shelling mixed with the crackle of automatic gunfire continued into the morning. At least three houses were flattened and dozens of cars charred, residents said.

“We are terrified by the violent approach used by the Americans to subdue the city,†said Mahmoud Saleh, a 33-year-old civil servant. “My wife and children are scared to death and they have not being able to sleep since last night. I hope that the fighting ends as soon as possible.â€

There were no immediate reports of US casualties.

Water and electricity services were cut off, and troops ordered residents to stay off the streets as they moved from house to house in search of insurgents. A dusk to dawn curfew was announced through loud-hailers.

US and Iraqi officials have pledged to assert control over insurgent enclaves ahead of national elections due in January to ensure all Iraqis have a chance to vote. Samarra is regarded as one of the top three rebel strongholds in Iraq, along with Fallujah and the Baghdad slum known as Sadr City.

Today’s assault came in response to “repeated and unprovoked attacks by anti-Iraqi forces†against Iraqi and coalition forces, a military statement said.

Its aim was to â€facilitate orderly government processes, kill or capture anti-Iraqi forces and set the conditions to proceed with infrastructure and quality of life improvements†in the city, about 60 miles north of the capital.

“Unimpeded access throughout the city for Iraqi security forces and multinational forces is nonnegotiable,†the statement said.

The military said insurgent attacks and acts of intimidation against the people of Samarra had undermined the security situation in the city, regarded as one of the top three rebel strongholds in Iraq, along with Fallujah and the Baghdad slum known as Sadr City.

About 2,000 rebels were believed to be holed up in Samarra and CNN reported that coalition troops were taking the city “sector by sector.â€

Along with US troops, soldiers from the 202nd Iraqi National Guard Battalion and 7th Iraqi Army Battalion were taking part in the operation. Such formations would normally involve several thousand troops.

Samarra has been under insurgent control and a virtual â€no-go†area for US troops since May 30.

The Americans returned briefly on September 9 under a peace deal brokered by tribal leaders under which US forces agreed to provide millions of dollars in reconstruction funds in exchange for an end to attacks on American and Iraqi troops.

In recent weeks, however, the city witnessed sporadic clashes between US troops and insurgents.

Masked gunmen carrying the flag of Iraq’s most feared terror group, Tawhid and Jihad, surfaced in force in Samarra on Tuesday, staging a defiant drive through the streets.

September Among Deadliest Months for U.S. in Iraq

Quote[/b] ]WASHINGTON (Reuters) - September was one of the deadliest months for U.S. troops in the 18-month-old war in Iraq, and the death toll for the first time has risen four straight months.

At least 76 U.S. troops were killed this month, reflecting a steady increase in American deaths since the United States transferred sovereignty to the interim Iraqi government headed by Prime Minister Iyad Allawi on June 28, officially ending the occupation, according to a count of U.S. fatalities announced by the Pentagon.

Forty-two U.S. troops were killed in June, 54 in July and 66 in August.

Only three other months have produced a higher American death count than September since U.S.-led forces invaded Iraq in March 2003 to topple President Saddam Hussein.

The highest death count, with 135 U.S. military fatalities, came this past April, with the simultaneous flaring of the insurgency in the so-called Sunni Triangle and in the Shi'ite south. Eighty were killed in May as well.

In November 2003, 82 U.S. troops died during a spike in insurgent violence that coincided with the Islamic holy month Ramadan.

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld acknowledged the worsening violence by insurgents, and said it "will very likely increase" ahead of national elections scheduled for January.

"I think they're getting worse because the people that oppose the Iraqi government and are determined to not have a democratic system there and want to reestablish the Baath Party and a terrorist state are determined to stop it," Rumsfeld told a radio interviewer this week.

"If they can disrupt things, they feel they've been successful. But they're basically killing Iraqis. They're killing a lot of Iraqis, innocent citizens. They're also killing a lot of Iraqi security forces, six or seven hundred of them. And, indeed, they're killing coalition members as well," Rumsfeld said.

The United States has about 138,000 troops in Iraq, with about another 22,000 British, Polish and other foreign troops there as well.

'LOSING SLOWLY BUT STEADILY'

Defense analysts said the Pentagon is struggling to forge a winning strategy against an insurgency that is intensifying and spreading.

"I personally think that the Bush administration is waiting to get through the (Nov. 2) American elections before it uses its military in a much more decisive fashion to suppress insurgent activity," said Loren Thompson of the Lexington Institute think tank.

Ted Carpenter of the Cato Institute think tank noted the number of daily attacks launched by insurgents against U.S. and other foreign troops and Iraqi security forces are surging, indicating a further deteriorating security situation.

"I think we're losing slowly but steadily," Carpenter said. "I think we're sinking deeper into the quick sand."

The U.S. military death toll in Iraq passed the 1,000 milestone on Sept. 7, and it stood at 1,052 in the Pentagon's latest figures released on Thursday.

There were eight days in September in which at least four U.S. troops were killed, including two days in which 10 or more died. On Sept. 6, 12 U.S. troops died, including seven Marines killed in a single car bombing near Falluja, one of several cities that have become virtual "no-go" zones for the U.S. military and havens for insurgents. On Sept. 13, 10 U.S. troops died, including six in Anbar Province.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

yes.. but the attack of today is pure precission strikes...

Well this is picture of from today ....but still ignore it, I assume the artillery was just standing there for the visual aspect.  

I am not complaining... I guess the soldiers search the best solutions available ... I am not blaiming them

[Balschoiw 0]

They´re just following orders compiled by the TBA.

For sure they are not the ones to blame.

For sure they should be supported by anyone possible, but support means giving them orders that improve their situation and don´t make them more scapegoat as they already are.

Supporting them means forcing the TBA to come up with a plan. A reasonable one. Support does not mean to strengthen those who failed to have a plan for Iraq and obviously don´t really care about their troops.

Supporting them would mean to tell the truth about the situation in Iraq today. Does the TBA do that ? So do they support their soldiers or do they leave them alone ?

[billybob2002 0]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm....0234358

Quote[/b] ] During the push, soldiers of the 1st Infantry Division rescued a kidnapped Turkish construction worker who was being held in the city. He was identified as Yahlin Kaya, an employee of the 77 Construction Company in Samarra.

U.S. and Iraqi forces blocked the roads into the city to prevent insurgents from moving in and out, said Maj. Neal O'Brien, another spokesman for the 1st Infantry Division.

As Iraqi forces secured the Samarra bridge, American soldiers observed insurgents in speedboats loading ordnance on the banks of the Tigris River, the military statement said. Soldiers fired warning shots and the insurgents returned fire, prompting U.S. forces to destroy the boats, killing their occupants, the statement said.

Smoke was seen rising from the area around the Imam Ali al-Hadi and Imam Hassan al-Askari shrine, raising fears for one of the holiest sites for Shiite Muslims. O'Brien said the shrine was not damaged and Iraqi forces had secured the site.

"Coalition forces and Iraqi security forces will do everything possible to protect the valuable site from damage," he said.

Along with U.S. troops, soldiers from the 202nd Iraqi National Guard Battalion and 7th Iraqi Army Battalion were taking part in the operation. Such formations would normally involve several thousand troops.

[Frisbee 0]

My god, "Why do you hate us so much?", how can you say that while having a "Stop global whining" pic as your avatar?

Do you not see the contradiction?

Let's see, why would the world like you any less than say, oh five years ago? You ignore the opinion of the rest of the world, you call some countries "evil" and plainly insult former allies.

I really can't understand it.

Quote[/b] ]You can piss and moan all you want, but you're not changing alot by doing so, really.

Really? I agree, you pissed of the majority of the world, now face the music instead of boo-hoo-hoo'ing about how everyone supposedly hates you, your soldiers, your absolutely flawless president and your American Way Of Life®.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

I love that

On that picture Bals doesnt look like he wants to solve the worlds problems but is looking for trouble instead.

"who can I shoot with that thing in my hand... wait dont run away... I cant properly aim at you like that..!"

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]On that picture Bals doesnt look like he wants to solve the worlds problems but is looking for trouble instead.

I can change the letters in the slogan from "serving" to "screwing" pretty fast, so watch it !

[Wilco 944]

Quote[/b] ]SAMARRA, Iraq (CNN) -- At least 109 insurgents and one American soldier were killed overnight in a major offensive launched by U.S. and Iraqi forces in the city of Samarra, U.S. military officials said Friday.

In the largest operation seen in Iraq's Sunni Triangle city in months, an estimated 3,000 U.S. troops moved into Samarra late Thursday. It was a response to what the United States called "repeated and unprovoked attacks by anti-Iraqi forces."

"This, they say, is the definitive battle for Samarra," CNN Correspondent Jane Arraf said amid heavy fire Friday morning as she traveled with the U.S. Army's 1st Infantry Division.

Dr. Khalid Ahmed said at least 80 bodies and more than 100 wounded were brought to Samarra General Hospital, but it was not immediately clear how many were insurgents. The hospital was running out of supplies, Ahmed said.

Also Friday, U.S. warplanes and tanks attacked the vast Baghdad slum of Sadr City, The Associated Press reported.

"We will spare no effort to clean all the Iraqi lands and cities from these criminals and we will pave the way through these operations not only for the reconstruction but also for the general elections," said Qasim Dowoud, minister of state for national security, according to the AP.

On Thursday, a senior Iraqi interim government official told CNN that U.S. and Iraqi forces were gearing up for a major offensive to put down the insurgent-dominated areas of the country.

It is not clear if the Samarra offensive was part of the plan, in which U.S. military forces will back up elements of Iraq's security forces to put pressure on insurgent hideouts and bases throughout the country.

In recent weeks, U.S. warplanes have hammered targets almost daily in Falluja, where the terror network of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi is said to be based, and the Baghdad neighborhood of Sadr City, a stronghold of support for Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.

In Samarra, several hundred insurgents and 65 foreign fighters are believed to have seized control of the city north of Baghdad, a senior U.S. official said.

On Friday, U.S. and Iraqi forces using tanks, backed up with air support, were going through the city sector by sector, Arraf said.

A brigade-size force of U.S. troops and about 1,000 forces from the Iraqi National Guard reached the center of the city early Friday, Arraf reported.

Gunfire, explosions and the fire of rocket-propelled grenades could be heard, and power was cut to parts of the city

The offensive is centered around the al-Askari mosque, a Shiite mosque in a largely Sunni town. The shrine, also known as the Golden Mosque, is very important to Shiites across the globe and it is regularly visited by pilgrims.

Iraqi forces found arms inside the mosque and on the rooftop.

Many Samarra residents had fled the city in anticipation of the military offensive, residents told Arraf.

A statement released by the U.S. military said government and police buildings in Samarra had been secured by troops from the Iraqi National Guard, Iraqi Army and the 1st Infantry Division.

A day after the offensive started, fighting continued and scattered gunfire punctuated the evening. Military officials said they have retaken about half of the city.

After the transfer to Iraq sovereignty in June, the U.S. military agreed to stop patrolling Samarra.

But as insurgent attacks continued, U.S. forces returned to patrols three weeks ago, after Iraqi and coalition forces restored Samarra's City Council to power.

The forces in the city also freed a Turkish citizen held by unknown captors.

Yahlin Kaya, working for the 77th Construction Company, a private firm working on reconstruction projects in Samarra, was freed by U.S. troops and brought to a U.S. base near Samarra.

Kaya is the among the many Turks have been abducted in Iraq. No other details were available, and it is also not known how long Kaya had been held by his captors.

Bloody day in Baghdad

On Thursday, explosions in Baghdad claimed at least 41 lives, about 35 of them children.

Many more children were wounded when car bombs exploded at a community celebration where U.S. soldiers were handing out candy.

Another car bomb killed a U.S. soldier and two Iraqi police officers.

An Islamist Web site with ties to the Unification and Jihad group posted a message it said is from the group's military wing, claiming responsibility for three suicide attacks.

The group, believed to be led by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, has claimed responsibility for beheading two Americans last week -- Jack Hensley and Eugene "Jack" Armstrong.

Senior military officials say U.S. and Iraqi troops in the past month have killed or captured more than 100 al-Zarqawi associates and have killed six members of al-Zarqawi's inner circle.

CNN

[Wilco 944]

yes.. but the attack of today is pure precission strikes...

Well this is picture of from today ....but still ignore it, I assume the artillery was just standing there for the visual aspect.  

I am not complaining... I guess the soldiers search the best solutions available ... I am not blaiming them

Have you ever had experience with artillery pieces? Do you think it's just point and shoot? I myself have never had experience with one either, so I'm not saying that you're wrong, but I'm sure our military is better at that knowledge and can get a round probobaly 10-15 feet from the initial target.

But sure, keep saying I live in a fantasy land , it hurts, it really hurts

Civilian casualties are going to be a factor in war, there is no way you're going to avoid them in an urban setting, especially when large explosives are used, this isn't a war that is going to be fought on large amounts of flat land, but door to door, but I should have to tell you people this, because you probably know this .

[Wilco 944]

Was about time it popped up again. Whenever you miss facts to argue just open the "why you hate us so much" drawer.

Unfortunally that is not that uncommon with US people. They have the best example sitting in the White House...

Freedom fries for everyone...

The joy of stereotyping

God Bless America

[walker 0]

Hi all

It apears Sadam will be puting himself up for election in Iraq's coming elections

Quote[/b] ]"Saddam to Declare Candidacy for Iraqi Elections," reads the headline in Zaman Online, which styles itself as the first Turkish paper on the Internet.

Saddam Hussein's lawyer, Giovanni di Stefano, apparently recently told a Danish newspaper that Hussein has decided he is going to run in January for the interim national assembly, which is to write a new constitution.

Di Stefano said there was no law that prevented Hussein from appearing on the ballot, adding that Hussein hopes to regain his presidency and palaces via the democratic process.

"Saddam has no chance to be tried before the elections," Di Stefano argued, according to the report, and "no international law prevents him from coming forward."

These elections are parliamentary, so Hussein would not have to run nationwide, only from a district, presumably Tikrit. Makes television ads and fundraising a lot easier. Even nationwide, Hussein seems to be making something of a comeback. Di Stefano cited a recent Gallup poll that he said indicates that 42 percent of the Iraqi people want their former leader back.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A63231-2004Sep30.html

It seams a sensable ploy on Sadam's part since he had not attacked the US had nothing to do with Al Qaida or Osama Bin Laden and did not have any WMD the only possable bar to his once more becoming Iraq's President would be a legal case under international law brought under genocide.

TBA would not want that as it would be a public court where Sadam could wash everyones dirty laundry. That leaves a court decision under the interim government to be made in the next 4 months which has to be ratified by the next real government of Iraq by which time Sadam could be voted in.

Wow what a big stink this will make.

Gobsmacked walker

[Acecombat 0]

Was about time it popped up again. Whenever you miss facts to argue just open the "why you hate us so much" drawer.

Unfortunally that is not that uncommon with US people. They have the best example sitting in the White House...

Freedom fries for everyone...

The joy of stereotyping  

God Bless America  

Oh the irony in this , i cant take it

Someone kill this right now .....

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]The joy of stereotyping

Either you have something to contribute or not. That´s the deal about a discussion. The fact that you don´t even try to argue anything only shows that you don´t have anything to contribute except your hatred.

God save america from stupids and ignorants

[SGTKOPP 0]

ive said it before and i will say it again dont believe everything you see and hear trust me

[Wilco 944]

ive said it before and i will say it again dont believe everything you see and hear trust me

Exactly, that comment can go anyway in this "discussion".

And thank you Balschoiw for your kind words, I've contributed stories and my opinion, which is good enough

Great job of mimicking amigo  

God Bless America  

Heck, here's some photos for a change  

Quote[/b] ]Soldiers of 303 battalion of Iraqi National Guard aim their guns as they participate in a raid at Sheikh Maroof neighborhood on Haifa street, Baghdad, Iraq, Wednesday Sept. 29, 2004. Six terrorists, linked with recent car bomb attacks on Haifa street that killed scores of prospective and serving Iraqi policemen, were arrested along with a large cache of arms and explosives.

Quote[/b] ]U.S. soldiers block off access during a raid at Haifa street in Baghdad, Iraq, Wednesday Sept. 29, 2004. Iraqi security forces backed by U.S. troops arrested six suspected terrorists operating on Baghdad's bloodied Haifa Street on Wednesday.

Quote[/b] ]Kadhim al-Dafan, the alleged leader of a terrorist cell operating in central Baghdad, is arrested in the Sheikh Maroof neighborhood of Haifa street, in Baghdad, Iraq, Wednesday Sept. 29, 2004. Six people, thought to be linked to recent car bomb attacks on Haifa street that killed scores of prospective and serving Iraqi policemen, were arrested along with a large cache of arms and explosives.

Quote[/b] ]U.S. Army soldiers guard a rooftop stronghold in the Sadr City section of Baghdad, Iraq, Thursday, Sept. 23, 2004. Six months after Sadr City erupted in rebellion, U.S. forces are launching a renewed campaign to wrest control from radical Muslim cleric Muqtada al-Sadr and his al-Mahdi Army and convince residents that ditching the insurgents will lift them out of dire poverty

More to come.

[Wilco 944]

Quote[/b] ]Soldiers from the 66th Military Police Company out of Ft. Lewis, Wash., talk with Iraqi Policeman at the Al Mahawil police station in Al Hillah, Iraq, Sept. 21, 2004. Soldiers from the 66th Military Police Company visited the Iraqi Police stations in their area of responsibility to ensure that the police have proper equipment and that the police are running their stations properly.

Quote[/b] ]U.S. Marine Lance Cpl. Gabriel Youngman, center, arrives with other Marines at the Marine Corps Security Force Battalion Armory at Camp Allen in Norfolk, Va., Monday, Sept. 27, 2004, after being deployed in Iraq for six months with the 3rd Fleet Antiterrorism Security Team Company Marines.

Quote[/b] ]Marine Lance Cpl. Marty Corona, of Newport News, Va., is reunited with his wife, Monica, after being deployed in Iraq for six months with the 3rd FAST (Fleet Antiterrorism Security Team) Company Marines, Monday, Sept. 27, 2004, at the Marine Corps Security Force Battalion Armory at Camp Allen in Norfolk, Va.

Quote[/b] ]Sgt. Robert Foote, of Hampton, Va., is reunited with his 3-year-old twin daughters, Chyanna, left, and Chasity, after being deployed in Iraq for six months with the 3rd FAST (Fleet Antiterrorism Security Team) Company Marines, Monday, Sept. 27, 2004, at the Marine Corps Security Force Battalion Armory at Camp Allen in Norfolk, Va.

Quote[/b] ]A British soldier takes up a position during a street patrol in the southern city of Basra, Iraq, Tuesday, Sept. 28, 2004. Two British soldiers died in an attack after insurgents ambushed a British army convoy near Basra.

Quote[/b] ]A U.S. helicopter provides support during clashes with Iraqi insurgents in Haifa street, Baghdad, Iraq, Tuesday Sept. 28, 2004. Haifa Street, an insurgent stronghold, has been the scene of bloody car bomb attacks, raids and fierce firefights.

[Frisbee 0]

My god, "Why do you hate us so much?", how can you say that while having a "Stop global whining" pic as your avatar?

Do you not see the contradiction?

Let's see, why would the world like you any less than say, oh five years ago? You ignore the opinion of the rest of the world, you call some countries "evil" and plainly insult former allies.

I really can't understand it.

Quote[/b] ]You can piss and moan all you want, but you're not changing alot by doing so, really.

Really? I agree, you pissed of the majority of the world, now face the music instead of boo-hoo-hoo'ing about how everyone supposedly hates you, your soldiers, your absolutely flawless president and your American Way Of Life®.

It's nice to see that you can still can act patronising while you don't acually say anything, just a few choice populistic, snide remarks and add in lots of and to enhance the feeling of superiority you're seemingly trying to convey here.

Human interest stories and nice little quote-like sentences that anyone can drone off. How about contributing to the discussion instead?

Why I quoted myself? I would like your opinion.

[Wilco 944]

My god, "Why do you hate us so much?", how can you say that while having a "Stop global whining" pic as your avatar?

Do you not see the contradiction?  

Let's see, why would the world like you any less than say, oh five years ago? You ignore the opinion of the rest of the world, you call some countries "evil" and plainly insult former allies.

I really can't understand it.

Quote[/b] ]You can piss and moan all you want, but you're not changing alot by doing so, really.

Really? I agree, you pissed of the majority of the world, now face the music instead of boo-hoo-hoo'ing about how everyone supposedly hates you, your soldiers, your absolutely flawless president and your American Way Of Life®.  

It's nice to see that you can still can act patronising while you don't acually say anything, just a few choice populistic, snide remarks and add in lots of    and   to enhance the feeling of superiority you're seemingly trying to convey here.

Human interest stories and nice little quote-like sentences that anyone can drone off. How about contributing to the discussion instead?

Why I quoted myself? I would like your opinion.

Let's view the pictures shall we? I believe that's a contribution? Along with the stories?

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.

Accept what the other person has to say and move on, or don't accept it at all and move on, hell I've moved on, I couldn't care less what you guys think about me, my country, my president, and my way of life.

I guess that's a "typical" American, huh?

God Bless America

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]And thank you Balschoiw for your kind words, I've contributed stories and my opinion, which is good enough

Does it say "Wilcos thread of solo opinion without talking to others" ?

Or does it say "Iraq thread" ?

If you want to post solos create a homepage and do so. We do talk to each other here. You don´t do that. You just insult and post your view. You don´t talk to others. You just ignore what they say. And this is not the intention of a forum.

If you want to do so, make your own page on your twisted views.

There you can insult anyone who visits it, but certainly not here with your "why do you hate us so much" bullshit.

What you try to do here is a nobrainer and it won´t work.

The shiny pics you post here are unfortunally not the reality in Iraq. You know forum rules forbid to show the other side of yours, but the ones you posted are stills with no relevance in the current uprisings. Maybe you should check out some pics of ripped apart people and US soldiers who got their legs blown away today.

You´re just no better than the reality-ignoring G.W Clan and therefore you will be surprised that even the guys on the shiny pics die. They do that in numbers as you can find out by reading.

Well some obviously do think that some shiny pictures makes death go away, but I assume you´re not in kindergarten anymore so maybe you should try it with some text oneday...

Adios hombre !

God save america from stupids and ignorants  

Edit: And maybe you should read forum rules...well it´s in text so you might have problems...

[Frisbee 0]

Haha, glad to see how you read my post, but don't actually read it.

Quote[/b] ]Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.

Quote[/b] ]I guess that's a "typical" American, huh?

Quote[/b] ]God Bless America

This is what the average person regards as unsubtle, opinionated, populistic crap, short and easy to understand.

Very effective of course, as history has proven, I could easily quote Hitler or any other fascistical or other dictator.

But because that's generally regarded as cheap, I'll choose an example from my country. Right wing party which has "Immigrants out" as one of their key slogans. Intelligent huh?

I didn't say anything about "A typical american" but you brought it up. Why? Because the role of the victim is an easy one and it's also an oh-so comfortable one. To get back to that right-wing party here in Belgium, they love to do that as well. A cheap and effective way to avoid debate.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]There you can insult anyone who visits it, but certainly not here with your "why do you hate us so much" bullshit.

Why do I find this humorous...

Quote[/b] ]The shiny pics you post here are unfortunally not the reality in Iraq.

...

Quote[/b] ]A U.S. helicopter provides support during clashes with Iraqi insurgents in Haifa street, Baghdad, Iraq, Tuesday Sept. 28, 2004. Haifa Street, an insurgent stronghold, has been the scene of bloody car bomb attacks, raids and fierce firefights.

Quote[/b] ]

A British soldier takes up a position during a street patrol in the southern city of Basra, Iraq, Tuesday, Sept. 28, 2004. Two British soldiers died in an attack after insurgents ambushed a British army convoy near Basra.

Quote[/b] ]U.S. Army soldiers guard a rooftop stronghold in the Sadr City section of Baghdad, Iraq, Thursday, Sept. 23, 2004. Six months after Sadr City erupted in rebellion, U.S. forces are launching a renewed campaign to wrest control from radical Muslim cleric Muqtada al-Sadr and his al-Mahdi Army and convince residents that ditching the insurgents will lift them out of dire poverty

 etc. etc.

Because it is not your graphic picture(s) that got you in trouble before does not make it is reality.. He just posted PG pictures and showed soldiers coming back from Iraq.

[Akira 0]

Posting pictures that any of us can find by going to Yahoo! does not a contribution make...

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

yes.. but the attack of today is pure precission strikes...

Well this is picture of from today ....but still ignore it, I assume the artillery was just standing there for the visual aspect.  

I am not complaining... I guess the soldiers search the best solutions available ... I am not blaiming them

Have you ever had experience with artillery pieces?  Do you think it's just point and shoot?  I myself have never had experience with one either, so I'm not saying that you're wrong, but I'm sure our military is better at that knowledge and can get a round probobaly 10-15 feet from the initial target.

But sure, keep saying I live in a fantasy land , it hurts, it really hurts  

Civilian casualties are going to be a factor in war, there is no way you're going to avoid them in an urban setting, especially when large explosives are used, this isn't a war that is going to be fought on large amounts of flat land, but door to door, but I should have to tell you people this, because you probably know this .

Wilco, look at that angle of the artillery. A bullet doesnt fly straight up and comes straight down. it flies in a curve. So if you shoot artillery inside a village you cant precisely hit a target without knowing whether you hit the house in front of it, the target itself, or the house behind it.

But I must admit I dont realy know much about artillery fire. However this thing doesnt realy look like a precision weapon does it? Maybe someone else can help.

And civillian casualties are never ever acceptable. In a realistic scenario they happen but you should never ACCEPT a certain percentage, especially not if you claim to liberate the people. You have to proof to them that the world is better off without Saddam than without americans.

[denoir 0]

Wilco, look at that angle of the artillery. A bullet doesnt fly straight up and comes straight down. it flies in a curve. So if you shoot artillery inside a village you cant precisely hit a target without knowing whether you hit the house in front of it, the target itself, or the house behind it.

But I must admit I dont realy know much about artillery fire. However this thing doesnt realy look like a precision weapon does it? Maybe someone else can help

I don't think there are too many sky-scrapers in Samarra. A low-angle firing solution would almost certainly work. Besides, given IR/GPS/Laser guided shells, you have farily good precision in the last stages. And the m119 on the picture is shooting at something like a 30 degree angle, which should get it a fairly high apogee.

While I don't know how precise their aiming was and if they used guided munitions - it is certainly possible to get the precision.

But hey - I've seen them use unguided MLRS rockets againt Fallujah, so you can't discount anything.