Weapon accuracy

[twisted 128]

i'm lucky in that i only discovered ofp this year. so i could compare it to many of the latest games to date.

and i discovered that ofp's crosshairs vastly better than anything out there. its not perfect but its damn good.

what i'd like to see is more of what makes ofp so good. a realism of sorts. ofp mimics the modern combat expereicne better than any other game i've played. so better (ie closer to real thing) weapon handling. more expected damage due to weapons (ie a 9mm can take out a person up close fast but is gonna have no effect on armour even if you stand thee shooting the whole day)

- edit - and yes to breathing effects while zoomed in.

[dmakatra 1]

Damn it folks, why wait until OFP2? I've read the thread and most of the complaints people have can be quite easily fixed. Wind affect bullets? Yes. Increased breathing and sight sway? Yes. Hold breath? Yes. Picking up a different rifle that isn't customized for you? Yes. Increased recoil? Yup.

*dmakatra goes and script the above.

[funnyguy1 0]

*Funnyguy (who is ordinary loser-on-line) goes to his messenger and spam Damacatra`s one because he just can`t script anithing

"could you script something for me?"

[dmakatra 1]

Eh? What do you mean by that?

[twisted 128]

Eh? What do you mean by that?

i think he means it'd be great to get the characteristics you mentioned scripted. and i agree.

if you get them done to your liking please share....

PS - i can onlt comment on what is written inpublic forum. if your comment is about a strange PM he sent you i dont even want to know (but would still be interested in the script )

[funnyguy1 0]

Eh? What do you mean by that?

he=funnyguy=me

With all respect to all who "keep ofp alive", I`m jus an ordinary user;)

I can script nothing:), so dudes like me, would spam your messenger with tonnes of "would you script xyz for me?"

It was joke;)

[dmakatra 1]

I thought it was a joke I just didn't understand it how you were writing.

[Sdstorage 0]

So now that holding one's breath for aiming purposes has been added to the x-box version, do we, the people think it would be a worthy addition for the next-gen game?

Like you all, I want long range firefights to last longer as that seems to be the case in reality. I think wind would definitely help. Would an onscreen indicator detract from the experience all that much? The Delta Force series used one, I believe, to good effect.

Increased sway would likely help as well, but the trick remains in implementing it in a way that does not feel random and can be player-influenced. I found the system in America's Army to be decent (though it is random, I think).

3d iron sights would be nice for ascetic reasons, but what would it add gameplay wise? I don't really see the benefit of adjusting an x, y, z axis. I think that would get tedious. Conversely, I'm a proponent of adjusting for range (I believe the term is dialing in).

I guess it's all about feel. I have faith that BIS will give us the best possible aiming system with realism tradeoffs where needed.

[guyguy1 0]

I hope game2 (arma even) will have a better aiming/recoil system. In OFP it seemed like there was a elastic band that tied the barrel of the gun to something; after every shot the aiming point would bounce back down to the same exact point where the gun was fired. For example, if you take an m60 or pkm and just spray the entire magazine, you will find that the aiming point only bounces up and down at the same two spots every time. I hope this has already been change in ArmA because it's kinda unrealistic and makes it far too easy to hit a target consecutively.

[PainDealer 0]

Would an onscreen indicator detract from the experience all that much?

you're talking about realism and then you need an on-screen indicator for wind? just look at the trees and you kinda sorta know how strong it is (of course there would be some kind of reference file which tells you how trees react on wind but you'd have to remember it on field). and of course range and wind direction are the other factors for wind correction. and for the snipers there's also factor "x" depending on the scope. after all only snipers would have to think about the wind cos with an assault rifle you wuoldn't shoot much further than 250 - 300m.

so I'd say no to the indicator, maybe direction and some kind of hint like tree or something swaying but no numbers.

[Balschoiw 0]

Get rid of the crosshair totally

[guyguy1 0]

Well i do, the original game weapons were not very... interesting .

They lacked personnality big time.

They were not acuratelly modeled, they all had the same reload sound and animation, ak's came with 3 round burst, MG's were very weak and made too acurate, the sounds were poor, not to mention duplicate weapons like the ak47 and 74, aks74u  and cz were all the exact same thing , or the fn fal and g3...

For OPF2 to become the perfect sim we need realistic weapons, ballistics and penetration, fire rates, sounds, ammo capacity, i want to replace a clip keeping one round in chamber, etc.

You are not right! The AK47 and AK47cz do quite more damage then AK74 and you will notice killing soldiers by fewer hits if you try!

regarding this post way way way back. I couldnt resist

@lowang you're wrong. I did some shooting against a few russian BRDMs with the XM 177, the m16, the AK 47 variants, and the AK 74 variants, and they all destroyed it after 87 shots (it did the paper crumble effect), thus proving that they do the same damage. I also did tests against soldiers and humvees as well. Still, same damage. I sure hope BI accurately models weapon damage and penetration in ArmA and Game2 .

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

I hope game2 (arma even) will have a better aiming/recoil system. In OFP it seemed like there was a elastic band that tied the barrel of the gun to something; after every shot the aiming point would bounce back down to the same exact point where the gun was fired. For example, if you take an m60 or pkm and just spray the entire magazine, you will find that the aiming point only bounces up and down at the same two spots every time. I hope this has already been change in ArmA because it's kinda unrealistic and makes it far too easy to hit a target consecutively.

Actually, when firing a rifle in real-life, you automatically do that. I dont know about the m16, but when I was in service, we used the H&K G3, and it actually didnt take long, until your mind was somehow used to just putting the gun into the same direction as your previously spot.

I could imagine its alot easier using the m16, since the recoil is very small compared to the G3

[GBee 0]

I'm in agreement with Espectro here. In real life you automatically bring the rifle down after firing, adjusting for the recoil - it isn't something you have to think about. You shouldn't be required to press buttons or move the mouse for actions which are as much instinct as breathing and bowel control.

You also have to remember the limitations of the controls, namely the mouse. Constant downward corrections for recoil mean that you will run out of desk space more often. I don't know about anyone else but in the middle of a fire fight repositioning my mouse on the desk is an unwelcome distraction.

It shouldn't return to the exact same pixel on the screen but it should be close to the original position.

[PainDealer 0]

I hope game2 (arma even) will have a better aiming/recoil system. In OFP it seemed like there was a elastic band that tied the barrel of the gun to something; after every shot the aiming point would bounce back down to the same exact point where the gun was fired. For example, if you take an m60 or pkm and just spray the entire magazine, you will find that the aiming point only bounces up and down at the same two spots every time. I hope this has already been change in ArmA because it's kinda unrealistic and makes it far too easy to hit a target consecutively.

Actually, when firing a rifle in real-life, you automatically do that. I dont know about the m16, but when I was in service, we used the H&K G3, and it actually didnt take long, until your mind was somehow used to just putting the gun into the same direction as your previously spot.

I could imagine its alot easier using the m16, since the recoil is very small compared to the G3

well that's sorta true if you're in prone pos but taking double shots standing or crouching are quite hard. at least with 7,62x39 rounds.

I've run one belt on PKM and I can tell you it doesn't bounce much if the bipods are on soft surface. the bullet spread is about 1 square meter at 150m when shooting guick short bursts.

[Baphomet 0]

I own a Vz. 858 tactical.

I can produce five inch groups at 50 meters. And I'm a mediocre shot.

It's not impossible to shoot someone in the head at 90 meters with a gun like that. You just need to rely more on the law of averages. I hate retards who seem to think that anything that fires 7.62x39 should have bullets flying out of the barrel at a 45 degree angle.

Technically it's not the problem with the accuracy of the gun in OFP more how weapon handling is simulated.

What should NOT be done is any kind of cheap workaround system in which they lump the proficiency (or lack thereof) of weapon handling together with the inherent accuracy of the firearm itself.

Do a better job simulating the handling of a firearm itself and create variables applied to various archetypes (conscript, regular, special forces, etc) that help the user or AI compensate for aiming instability or recoil handling.

I really want to see dynamic weapon handling in OFP2, inverse kinematics, etc. In the vein of Trespasser only more user friendly and more accurate. This is the future of cutting-edge simulation.

I'm personally losing interest in games that are concerned with maintaining the status quo.

The closer to the actual simulation of how a gun is handled and how it performs is what I want. I want to apply my knowledge as a shooter to the game. I don't want to have to devise arbitary unrealistic strategies to aim and score hits with weapons that have no basis in reality. Like... well... pretty much any game similar to counterstrike.

Quote[/b] ]Actually, when firing a rifle in real-life, you automatically do that.

Not perfectly, and that's what needs to be changed. Nobody handles a rifle with the level of robotic precision that the guys in OFP do. And I think that should be somewhat goverened by skill level, thus code should be in place to assist in real time in controlling (albeit with varying degrees of proficiency) recoil and aim precision.

In other words. A conscript or playing as a character with conscript designation would have considerably worse aim recovery skills than a character with considerably higher skill. If you get what I mean.

Furthermore I'm not talking about predictably pre-defined states. I'm talking about dynamic realtime weapon handling physics. Weight, inertia, presence of a stock or not, etc. The whole nine yards.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

I just want to say, after playing BF2, I can say that there is no such thing as a "too accurate" weapon.

[Baphomet 0]

Yes well we all know many games with pseudo realistic weapons and overly simplified weapons/weapon handling are garbage. Which is why I refuse to play such games.

I am however a little tired of scoring hits at ridiculously long ranges in OFP. There's got to be some kind of balance... I mean enhanced realism, because in essence I've always believed that improved realism does in a way preserve a sense of balance.

[gregorygreghalstead 0]

I do agree tht on the basis of accuracy of rifles, OFP does it better than no other (to my knowledge)

BUT

on HANDGUNS, that's where OFP failed me,

I've seen AIs blasting away with a handgun (WHEN HE's CARRYING AN XMS, right use the M9 when u've got an XMS, bloody brilliant) at ranges + 500 meters and getting head shots, killing the ruskies who are armred with Aks, PKs & SVDs.

(if that's true, i'm bringing an M9 if we go to war)

I mean please, even with an M-16 on the clean OFP RES, the enemies are specks. it's gonna be pretty lucky for you to get head shots at that range.....

ESPecially with the bloody AIs bouncing all over the place

I'm no expert but i believe handguns aren't supposed to blast that far AND still get headshots for you.

I agree with Baphomet with his improved realism, on handguns anw.