Microsoft must pay $610m fine to eu

[der bastler 0]

I see alot of, excuse the expression, complete morons using computers. I do not, by all means have infinite knowledge of computers but i've learnt the basics. These people however do not give a rats ass what their media player looks like. Or what advanced options it has. They are asking questions like "How do you start it" and "does this come with one of those motherboards" Sounds fun, but it is reality. They did not have computers "back then" Or attleast, so it appears.

IMO just another problem of Microsoft company politics. "Everything is sooooooo easy", "Everyone must have a PC", "No need to be an IT specialist"...

Yeah, but without learning the basics you can't use a computer (ok, you'll feel you can use it, but it uses you ).

This is a problem Microsoft is facing now: Outlook & IE --eMail worms, misused MS-HTML tags. Just because everything has to be very easy, just because there must be MS-only HTML tags and just because the program has to think for the user (i.e. open html mails with embedded MS worm download tags automatically). Bad publicity for MS --but the prize for the major fault goes to the users who can't setup their computers resp. the users who open every attachment within reach...

That's why Microsoft announced the security initiative recently (e.g. with office posters): To educate the own users who were lured into a everything's-easy shiny new computer world.

[HellToupee 0]

I don't get this fuss either.

Anyone is free to make a competitive product.

The problem is'nt Microsoft, it is everyone else who just moan without doing anything about it.

Make your own OS and compete with Microsoft instead of bitching about Microsoft's monopoly.

people have done, tis called linux.

It is very good more capable than windows OS but because it cant run windows apps it dosnt get popular, thats the problem not ease of use, windows has 98 or something % market share you cant just compete its a monopoly, its like some one competeing with telecom here, they own all the phone lines. M$ office also has market share no other apps can compete because the formats are closed, there has been progress but now office is moving to xml format which open office etc already use but they are also going the closed way over the standards way. Plus they are tring to patent xml office formats and things like virtual desktops. Would you use a obviously better OS that costs less dose everything better exept run operation flashpoint and your other games?

[HellToupee 0]

CNN News

Haha! At last someone is doing something with Bill Gates money.

Why should that man have so much money? He hardly even use half

of it. GIVE THE WORLD MORE MONEY, AND MAKE A MORE SAFER

WINDOWS! Idiot...

What do you guys think?

just on a side note: Bill Gates has made the largest charity donations to orphans in Africia than any other private company in the world to date. he even left his nice home w/ his wife to go to africia to deliver the donations personaly, so i think its fair to say he's done his part to make the world a little easier for some people.

on topic:

though i like to see him maybe rethink these "deals" he has w/ computer companies like Gateway and Dell that really only serve as red tape, i think governments should quit telling him how to run his company and pay more attention to the real corrupt companies. he shouldn't have to ask for permission from some stupid government if he's allowed to put something in his software. and to say that there's no room for any others to compete against Microsoft is a bit unfair imo, Theres OS 10 from Apple and people who use it swear by it as just as good if not better and more reliable than Windows. and of course theres Linux which is starting to catch up to microsoft and will probaly start giving Bill Gates quite a bit of competition.

funny enough many donations to charities and others are computers and copys of windows OS and office etc, the amount is donated they print is what it would cost to buy the stuff, where really its true cost is few computers and 50c cds, donate office to some one thats a 500$ donation!, when coming from m$ it cost em 50cents. Dunno but the africa places but this is what it was when m$ contributed to eu schools and governments to keep them on their side and away from open source.

[ale2999 0]

CNN News

Haha! At last someone is doing something with Bill Gates money.

Why should that man have so much money? He hardly even use half

of it. GIVE THE WORLD MORE MONEY, AND MAKE A MORE SAFER

WINDOWS! Idiot...

What do you guys think?

just on a side note: Bill Gates has made the largest charity donations to orphans in Africia than any other private company in the world to date. he even left his nice home w/ his wife to go to africia to deliver the donations personaly, so i think its fair to say he's done his part to make the world a little easier for some people.

on topic:

though i like to see him maybe rethink these "deals" he has w/ computer companies like Gateway and Dell that really only serve as red tape, i think governments should quit telling him how to run his company and pay more attention to the real corrupt companies. he shouldn't have to ask for permission from some stupid government if he's allowed to put something in his software. and to say that there's no room for any others to compete against Microsoft is a bit unfair imo, Theres OS 10 from Apple and people who use it swear by it as just as good if not better and more reliable than Windows. and of course theres Linux which is starting to catch up to microsoft and will probaly start giving Bill Gates quite a bit of competition.

funny enough many donations to charities and others are computers and copys of windows OS and office etc, the amount is donated they print is what it would cost to buy the stuff, where really its true cost is few computers and 50c cds, donate office to some one thats a 500$ donation!, when coming from m$ it cost em 50cents. Dunno but the africa places but this is what it was when m$ contributed to eu schools and governments to keep them on their side and away from open source.

pls can u support your points with sources or w/e. AFAIK, M$ donates lots of real money too (perhaps it help in tax breaks but it is a donation nonetheless)

I am with Ozanac, if the other companies could make a better product every1 will eventually move to it....

[SolidSnake-(SNK) 0]

All i want from my os is to run my software!

I dont need most of the stuff MS has in Windows, that's joust vaste of good space on my HD.

So i'am happy with this court Order.

Screw MS they're joust money sucking bastard's that feed's on us poor pc owners.

They should learn From Amiga os, no fancy anim's and other crap, and it could run on 1mb of ram also  

[Longinius 1]

Quote[/b] ]pls can u support your points with sources or w/e. AFAIK, M$ donates lots of real money too (perhaps it help in tax breaks but it is a donation nonetheless)

I dont have a source for you but I know for a fact that Microsoft donates loads of computers and softwares to schools for example. Now, this isnt necesserily a bad thing. As long as cash donations are made aswell to worthy causes, its no big deal. You donate what you can, and for someone with specific products it comes close to hand.

Quote[/b] ]I am with Ozanac, if the other companies could make a better product every1 will eventually move to it....

Not really true. The majority of users dont care enough about what they use. They settle for whats preinstalled when they get their PC and only when they actually need something specific will they go out and look. The people on this forum are not really the average (or "casual") computer owner, which in fact is responsible for a large part of the consumption in the industry.

[ozanzac 0]

Quote[/b] ]I am with Ozanac, if the other companies could make a better product every1 will eventually move to it....

Not really true. The majority of users dont care enough about what they use. They settle for whats preinstalled when they get their PC and only when they actually need something specific will they go out and look. The people on this forum are not really the average (or "casual") computer owner, which in fact is responsible for a large part of the consumption in the industry.

What defines a casual user? Not to be discriminatory, but a casual user who is eighty years old will have very different habits to a casual user who has grown up in a technologically richer era.

For now, I 'think' I'm a fairly casual user for my age group. I game, can put together and maintain a system, know what does what in a computer, know my way around the Windows OS, and am gradually being introduced to Unix and Linux, through Uni, and other specialized software related to my course program.

Compared to my dad, I'm a power user. He uses a computer for it's basic communications and office related functions, e-mail, Internet, word processing, spreadsheets, e.t.c. But not much else.

Compared to my grandparents, I might as well be a Professor of Computer Sciences. They know how to use four buttons on their own multi-function TV remote. Channel up, channel down, volume up and volume down. They need me to change channels when they're watching my TV.

There is no 'casual' user that covers all of society. But for the case of the argument, lets say my dad is Mr Average computer user.

He occasionally has to watch videos on his Laptop for occupational health and safety reasons. Because his company supplies the laptop with a windows based O.S with windows media player, it makes sense that those videos are in a windows media player format, due to the sheer size of the network. The network is worldwide, and Windows 2000/XP is as far as I know, for the time being, the network standard. (The network comprises of upwards of 200,000 individual users). They wouldn’t use it if it was inconvenient, and I'd say that corporate world influences the market much greater than the standard 'home'/casual user.

Industries and companies all have standards. They're always looking for the opportunity to raise the bar a little higher. This keeps the suppliers of products to the company on their toes. They're continually trying to raise the standard, so that their product stays on top. In the big “Windows†picture, Windows Media Player is only a small part. But if competitors who specialize in media technology continue to develop technology that has the potential to overtake the stranglehold that windows media player has. It will either force change among Microsoft’s product. Or the technology will be absorbed as if it were a Microsoft product to begin with, hopefully, with the proper remuneration to the true innovators.

Is this really a bad thing for consumers, no matter how computer literate? In my opinion, no, it’s not. Because it keeps the not so computer literate, happy, by having to deal less witht he computer. And gives corporations a standard for compatibility issues. There’ll always be someone pushing the limit, improving on what is already on offer.

[Postduifje 0]

There’ll always be someone pushing the limit, improving on what is already on offer.

If the current standard is so strongly hold by one compagny and the other compagnies have little to none power to compete, the motives for innovation are not very strong. The only motivation would be that what denoir said a while back, that microsoft needs to innovate to keep selling their product. But change is enough to oblige people to buy the newer version, it should not be neccesary an improvement. Anyway, improvement will be made evenhow, as you said, but not in the optimal way, as perfect competition would demand.

[Longinius 1]

Quote[/b] ]There is no 'casual' user that covers all of society. But for the case of the argument, lets say my dad is Mr Average computer user.

Yes there is actually. There is an average for everything and the "casual user" is commonly just that, an average user.

And the average user, across the board, doesnt really know much about his or her computer, and definately not much about the software and hardware inside it. So they will settle for anything that works sufficiently, and dont really have the need for much else.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

CNN News

Haha! At last someone is doing something with Bill Gates money.

Why should that man have so much money? He hardly even use half

of it. GIVE THE WORLD MORE MONEY, AND MAKE A MORE SAFER

WINDOWS! Idiot...

What do you guys think?

just on a side note: Bill Gates has made the largest charity donations to orphans in Africia than any other private company in the world to date. he even left his nice home w/ his wife to go to africia to deliver the donations personaly, so i think its fair to say he's done his part to make the world a little easier for some people.

on topic:

though i like to see him maybe rethink these "deals" he has w/ computer companies like Gateway and Dell that really only serve as red tape, i think governments should quit telling him how to run his company and pay more attention to the real corrupt companies. he shouldn't have to ask for permission from some stupid government if he's allowed to put something in his software. and to say that there's no room for any others to compete against Microsoft is a bit unfair imo, Theres OS 10 from Apple and people who use it swear by it as just as good if not better and more reliable than Windows. and of course theres Linux which is starting to catch up to microsoft and will probaly start giving Bill Gates quite a bit of competition.

I second that. If you want to punish a rich man with little sensitivity for poverty then take the real estate shark called Trump. This guy and his arrogant snobby behaviour should have to work 10 years in a gold mine in Africa!

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]So i'am happy with this court Order.

Screw MS they're joust money sucking bastard's that feed's on us poor pc owners.

And in order to recoup their losses, they'll charge the "poor pc owners" even more money. The fine does very little to Microsoft, all they have to do is add a little more to their prices.

[der bastler 0]

Some articles about Microsoft...

Newly Released Documents Shed Light on Microsoft Tactics

Army to Gates: Halt the free software

Open-Source Fight Flares At Pentagon --Microsoft Lobbies Hard Against Free Software

They were warned by the DoJ in the antitrust agreement, but Microsoft keeps on trying:

Microsoft to change Windows music browser

CNN, ABC and others are reporting that Microsoft has agreed to fix Windows XP so that it no longer launches IE (instead of the user's chosen default browser) when the user selects the "Shop for Music Online" option in Windows XP. MS isn't admitting that it's a violation of the consent decree they signed to get the DoJ to drop the anti-trust suit against them, but threats to take them to court over it are what prompted the move."

Subtile, huh?

Another move:

Is Microsoft Paying To Influence UN Standards? (slashdot)

Microsoft travel subsidies for UN group under fire (International Herald Tribune)

Something interesting:

Hewlett-Packard to Launch Linux-Based PCs Globally

After the European decision I don't think Microsoft can react as it used to react --threaten Compaq with cancellation of Win license contract...

After all Microsoft takes Linux seriously, following their ad campaign.

We all know the royal SCO "I sue ya all, I swear" theatre company, look who's involved (somehow):

Ok, the Helloween X mail incident could be a fake if you doubt the source, but the following article is interesting:

SCO's Suit: A Match Made in Redmond?

(I could kick myself for supporting this corporation that long; 1991-2000, MS-DOS 5.0 - Win98SE )

[red oct 2]

CNN News

Haha! At last someone is doing something with Bill Gates money.

Why should that man have so much money? He hardly even use half

of it. GIVE THE WORLD MORE MONEY, AND MAKE A MORE SAFER

WINDOWS! Idiot...

What do you guys think?

just on a side note: Bill Gates has made the largest charity donations to orphans in Africia than any other private company in the world to date. he even left his nice home w/ his wife to go to africia to deliver the donations personaly, so i think its fair to say he's done his part to make the world a little easier for some people.

on topic:

though i like to see him maybe rethink these "deals" he has w/ computer companies like Gateway and Dell that really only serve as red tape, i think governments should quit telling him how to run his company and pay more attention to the real corrupt companies. he shouldn't have to ask for permission from some stupid government if he's allowed to put something in his software. and to say that there's no room for any others to compete against Microsoft is a bit unfair imo, Theres OS 10 from Apple and people who use it swear by it as just as good if not better and more reliable than Windows. and of course theres Linux which is starting to catch up to microsoft and will probaly start giving Bill Gates quite a bit of competition.

I second that. If you want to punish a rich man with little sensitivity for poverty then take the real estate shark called Trump. This guy and his arrogant snobby behaviour should have to work 10 years in a gold mine in Africa!

well even Trump i think could easily be called a saint when compared to Martha Stewart whos probaly gona get her ass throw into prison 10-20 for having inside help in the stock market, than theres that sob from Enron who i think should get life for steeling the employee's retirement benifits for his own gain. then theres Haliburton, whos been over charging the military in Iraq, and probaly would have continued to do so if somebody hadn't blown the whistle.

[DarkLight 0]

Damn belgium

Why Belgium  

It s EU not Belgium, read before commenting !

We cant help the EU HQ is located in Belgium.

Grmbl

smartass

Darklight ?

You talking to me ?

No i wasn't, i was talking to the guy blaming belgium...

Oh and placebo, i don't really consider smartass a bad word... Ok it says ass in the end but it's not like i actually say he looks like/is an ass or something like that...

Apparantly it IS a naughty naughty word so i won't use it anymore... it wasn't really my intention to flame anyone...

oh well...

[Colossus 2]

OK everybody have heard this now.

Closeing (At last it's me that says that, not the moderators   )

EDIT: Ok I'll let it open one day more, many have been looking on

this topic after I closed it.

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

THIS is a much better system adminsistration tool than windows has

[Colossus 2]

LOL, just found this OS.

THE LINDOWS

What is Lindows OS?

[noundo 0]

Gee, I wonder how many people here actually used computers back in the DOS days. Single app at a time, seperate video, printer, and mouse drivers for EVERY app, EVERY app had it's own and sometimes very strange UI.

IMO Windows was and is the single best thing for the wide acceptance of computing technology.

[EiZei 0]

Gee, I wonder how many people here actually used computers back in the DOS days. Single app at a time, seperate video, printer, and mouse drivers for EVERY app, EVERY app had it's own and sometimes very strange UI.

IMO Windows was and is the single best thing for the wide acceptance of computing technology.

You think microsoft was the first company to create an operating system that did not feature things you mentioned?

[noundo 0]

You think microsoft was the first company to create an operating system that did not feature things you mentioned?

No, but it was/is unarguably the most successful. And whats your point?

[EiZei 0]

You think microsoft was the first company to create an operating system that did not feature things you mentioned?

No, but it was/is unarguably the most successful. And whats your point?

Well, you seem to talk like Windows exclusively revolutionized computing industry all by itself while they merely just copied other products and were the most successful.

[noundo 0]

You think microsoft was the first company to create an operating system that did not feature things you mentioned?

No, but it was/is unarguably the most successful.  And whats your point?

Well, you seem to talk like Windows exclusively revolutionized computing industry all by itself while they merely just copied other products and were the most successful.

No doubt they used ideas from other companies. But why do you think they were more successful with their implementation that say Apple, or the GEM GUI?

The real reason MS wrote windows was so they could sell more MICE!!!

[der bastler 0]

Gee, I wonder how many people here actually used computers back in the DOS days. Single app at a time, seperate video, printer, and mouse drivers for EVERY app, EVERY app had it's own and sometimes very strange UI.

IMO Windows was and is the single best thing for the wide acceptance of computing technology.

Well, in 1992, before Microsoft realised that it would be nice to have unified drivers, GUIs etc. there was IBM's OS/2. 32Bit, preemptive multitasking, GUI: presentation manager, right-click context menu, etc.

Much more stable than Windows 3.x (which tried some kind of multitasking on-top of DOS).

Guess who kept OS/2 small...

[noundo 0]

Gee,  I wonder how many people here actually used computers back in the DOS days.  Single app at a time, seperate video, printer, and mouse drivers for EVERY app,  EVERY app had it's own and sometimes very strange UI.

IMO Windows was and is the single best thing for the wide acceptance of computing technology.

Well, in 1992, before Microsoft realised that it would be nice to have unified drivers, GUIs etc. there was IBM's OS/2. 32Bit, preemptive multitasking, GUI: presentation manager, right-click context menu, etc.

Much more stable than Windows 3.x (which tried some kind of multitasking on-top of DOS).

Guess who kept OS/2 small...

I take it you are blaming MS for IBM's failure to realize what they had with OS/2? 1992 IBM had nothing to fear from 1992 Microsoft.

I think OS/2 could have been the OS, but IBM failed in their marketing. IIRC - The IBM marketing at the time seemed to be directed to corporate customers and implied that OS/2 would let your PC function like some kind of mid-range machine. They completely missed the boat.

[der bastler 0]

I think OS/2 could have been the OS, but IBM failed in their marketing. IIRC - The IBM marketing at the time seemed to be directed to corporate customers and implied that OS/2 would let your PC function like some kind of mid-range machine. They completely missed the boat.

OS/2 was originally developed by IBM and Microsoft. In the early 90s they split.

Interesting: http://www.sibbald.com/windows/windows01.html

One year after IBM's OS/2 Microsoft presented the similar WinNT --with a broad app base on their side. Plus MS-DOS on nearly every OEM computer (remember the FTC investigating in 1990?).

I don't blame Microsoft for IBM's bad advertising, but I blame Microsoft for killing every competition since the late 80s so they could pose as the PC inventor of the world...