Explosion in madrid

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Should AQ be regrouping and rearming against the 'crusaders' who will be next  England, Australia??

Whether you were part of the coalition of the willing doesnt play a role here. First of all it was basically ALL nations that dedicated themselves to the war against teror. Maybe some people may think too much about what Rumsfeld is saying and forgetting about the international effort in Afghanistan. YES EUROPE IS CONTRIBUTING and not weaseling. So all nations can be the target. And I assume that the location of a future attack doesnt depend so much on the political actions of each nation but the terorist infrastructure available. Thailand, Germany or italy could be next, it all depends on how secure and organised the cell in each country feels. But target number 1 and 2 remain the US and Israel.

[bn880 5]

I think you are incorrect this time, actually lately Bin Laden named specifically the nations in danger, and Spain was one of them. There is no such thing as it doesn't matter, it does matter as it always has, intrests of nations they have e beef with or civilians of those nations.

This is not some random crap shoot.

Serious targets are therefore Poland, SPain Australia US UK... I am sure UK would have serious attacks so far but it must have been difficult.

EDIT: But we will see, so far what I have seen is that people labeled as members of Al Qaeda do not need to really be anything, just be favouring Al Qaeda and do some action on their behalf. Who knows exactly how tied to them this bombing operation was.

EDIT2: Actually a lot of innocent people are also labeled as terrorists and Al Qaeda, but that's another story.

[thirtyg 0]

I think you are incorrect this time, actually lately Bin Laden named specifically the nations in danger, and Spain was one of them.  There is no such thing as it doesn't matter, it does matter as it always has, intrests of nations they have e beef with or civilians of those nations.

This is not some random crap shoot.  

Serious targets  are therefore Poland, SPain Australia US UK... I am sure UK would have serious attacks so far but it must have been difficult.

I agree, these are the countries that AQ has made reference to.

I'm sure Australia would have been attacked now if

a) we were not so remote; and

b) the French had not allerted us about Willy

Regarding this attack ETA is trying to distance itself from the attack

Quote[/b] ]Arnaldo Otegi is the leader of the Basque political party, Batasuna, which is seen as the political wing of ETA. He told reporters ETA has always issued warnings before bombings and he believes the attacks are the work of what he called "Arab resistance", raising speculation that al-Qaeda may be behind the carnage.

'What we want to make absolutely clear is that the Basque nationalist left do not even contemplate the possibility that ETA was behind what happened today in Madrid.'

[IceFire 0]

yes coincidence. Also the war in iraq happens in the year of the monkey, just like Vietnam!

with a monkey in the whitehouse

Oh, what you must actually mean to say is, "with the best president of our time who is very smart and brave in the white house "

[brgnorway 0]

Quote[/b] ]Whether you were part of the coalition of the willing doesnt play a role here. First of all it was basically ALL nations that dedicated themselves to the war against teror. Maybe some people may think too much about what Rumsfeld is saying and forgetting about the international effort in Afghanistan. YES EUROPE IS CONTRIBUTING and not weaseling. So all nations can be the target.

Oh come on! Of course, sending troops to Afghanistan possibly makes you a target. But participating in Iraq certainly makes you a very likely target. One has to be in a coma to deny the fact that siding with the "axis of the willing" in Iraq is somewhat more delicate than participating in "the war on terror" . I'd call that high profile rather than discrete.

Quote[/b] ] And I assume that the location of a future attack doesnt depend so much on the political actions of each nation but the terorist infrastructure available.

Possibly, but I guess if you really wan't to hurt your opponent you hit him where it hurts most. Anthropological studies on political violence have drawn the conclusions that "border zones" are safer than central areas. Where do you believe you are safest in Belfast - shankhill road or in the inner circle of catholic and protestant suburbs?

Quote[/b] ] But target number 1 and 2 remain the US and Israel.

You should add Britain, Italy, Spain, Polen, Japan and Australia.

[John C Flett 0]

Couldn't log in yesterday to contribute.

Firstly, like everybody else I want to express my shock and horror. I love Spain a great deal. I've just returned from four months in Andalucia and I feel for all the friends I made over there and for their friends and families. Selfishly I'm glad everybody I know lives in the south.

Secondly I agree with a lot of the points Denoir and Walker ( I think ) made. This just doesn't feel like ETA. It is similar to something they tried to do at christmas but the scale and MO is so different its really hard to buy that they could have done it. More to the point, why would they deny it. They've always taken great pride in their actions in the past and they gain nothing by placing the blame elsewhere.

Word is though that Al Qaida have already claimed responsability through a London newspaper.

What hasn't been made clear here is how Aznar and PP have a major interest in who gets blamed. With elections only two days away Aznar who has a hard line stance on ETA will win support if they were to blame and probably take the election safely. If its AQ he is to blame for taking Spain into the war against major opposition. AQ will probably loose hime the election and change Spains government. This would be a major win for AQ and gives the Spanish government good reason to keep ETAs name to the forefront.

Lastly, if you haven't already sign the CNN petition a few pages back.

[IceFire 0]

I would not be surprised if this were Al-Quada.

This only underscores the fact that they MUST BE ERADICATED FROM THE FACE OF THIS PLANET. Nothing less will do.

This is Spain's Sept 11.

Wake up people. Now that Europe is being attacked with high casualties maybe they will begin to understand why the United States and men like George W. Bush are doing what we have.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

I would not be surprised if this were Al-Quada.

This only underscores the fact that they MUST BE ERADICATED FROM THE FACE OF THIS PLANET.   Nothing less will do.

This is Spain's Sept 11.  

Wake up people.  Now that Europe is being attacked with high casualties maybe they will begin to understand why the United States and men like George W. Bush are doing what we have.

Absolutely. And there is only one clear course of action for all true Spanish patriots: invade Portugal. And there isn't a moment to lose- Those bastards could strike again at any time!

[EiZei 0]

I would not be surprised if this were Al-Quada.

This only underscores the fact that they MUST BE ERADICATED FROM THE FACE OF THIS PLANET. Nothing less will do.

This is Spain's Sept 11.

Wake up people. Now that Europe is being attacked with high casualties maybe they will begin to understand why the United States and men like George W. Bush are doing what we have.

[Longinius 1]

Quote[/b] ]Wake up people. Now that Europe is being attacked with high casualties maybe they will begin to understand why the United States and men like George W. Bush are doing what we have.

You cant compare Spains situation to the US, totally different politics behind it.

And Europe has been under terrorist attacks for decades, this is just one of the few big ones, and thank god there hasnt been many of those.

As for understanding the actions of George W Bush, this doesnt quite help me figure him out in anyway. But maybe if Spain liberates Iraq from its current oppressive regime everything would turn out fine?

[IceFire 0]

How are they different?   Both are Al-Quedas terrorism response to any foreign activity in the Islamic world against any states that are involved in the Islamic world.

The terrorists hate/attacked the US because we were heavily involved in the Middle East, now they are attacking Spain for it's involvment along with the US in the middle east.

Face it. Islamic terrorists will attack anyone who they see as a threat to terrorism. They are probably stupid enough to draw in every nation on this planet against them. The more countries they attack, more nations will join the fight against terrorism.

Eventually Middle Eastern countries will have to choose, support the terrorist "freedom fighters" (which they probably will), or face the brunt of terrorists who are becoming impatient with the middle eastern leaders who try to balance western pressure and the islamic people.

The terrorists like AQ are trying to start a WW3 in the name of Islam. We need to just wipe the bastards out anyways.

[theavonlady 2]

This is Spain's Sept 11.

How many days passed between 9/11 and yesterday?

[speedbob 0]

Yesterday was a bad day for spain, a bad day for freedom. Don't want to talk about who did that and why. Just want to say that i support spanish people. I walked in the streets this morning (in France), and all the flags on the official buildings are down. Strange feeling. What can i do against terrorism ? Not many things.

But i can use my freedom : i can post a message in an english forum of a Czech game with a great community. Sorry for peolple who don't understand spanish langage, but just a few words from a french to Spain.

Espana no esta sola. Tomo parte en vuestra pena. Continuamos todos juntos la lucha contra el terrorismo. Y viva espana.

[Longinius 1]

Quote[/b] ]Face it. Islamic terrorists will attack anyone who they see as a threat to terrorism.

No, they will attack anyone who helps their enemies. Thats the difference. America is the enemy, and Spain is their ally. Spain would most likely not have been attacked this way if they hadnt been tight with the US.

Quote[/b] ]They are probably stupid enough to draw in every nation on this planet against them. The more countries they attack, more nations will join the fight against terrorism.

Thats true. But it wont help. This kind of terrorism cant be defeated with force.

Quote[/b] ] The terrorists like AQ are trying to start a WW3 in the name of Islam. We need to just wipe the bastards out anyways.

They are using the same kind of reasoning, which is the reason this situation has been created in the first place.

Nobody needs to be whiped out for this situation to be solved. Drastic measures are needed, yes, but massmurder isnt one of them. More killing will only lead to more violence.

[denoir 0]

Wake up people.  Now that Europe is being attacked with high casualties maybe they will begin to understand why the United States and men like George W. Bush are doing what we have.

You mean abandon the terrorist hunt and go and invade a third party. Tie up your resources by invading a country that had nothing to do with your problems? Create more terrorist by pissing off people that are likely to be sympathetic to their cause? All this at the same time while you are not hurting the terrorists.

No thanks, we have seen how good Bush's actions have worked. His actions are indirectly responsible for what happened in Madrid. Spain is also at fault for going to Iraq.

To quote Osama bin Laden in his latest statement (verified that it was from him):

Quote[/b] ]We reserve the right to revenge at an appropriate time and place against all the countries who participated in the unjust war, namely Great Britain, Spain, Australia, Poland, Japan and Italy.

Muslims should keep away from civilian and military establishments in the crusader America and its allied countries.

I think that it's more than the appropriate time that Europe starts acting and does so in the right way. Infiltrate terrorist organizations, identify the leaders and take them out. At the same time to distance themselves from any non-UN involvement in Iraq. Also a greater dialog with the local arab population should be started. Both to prevent recruitement to terrorist organizations and to get arab allies that can provide intelligence and help with infiltrations.

Terrorism is a two fold problem. You have to wipe out the current terrorists and you have to reduce their rectruiting base. USA went wrong on both points. I hope that Europe has seen and learned from those mistakes and will act smarter.

Edit: From what I'm reading this morning in the news, the official line is that it was ETA. The UN condemned the bombing tonight, also specifically naming ETA. The Spanish police are looking for nine suspects, all belonging to ETA. Perhaps they know something we dont?

[brgnorway 0]

This is Spain's Sept 11.

How many days passed between 9/11 and yesterday?

I know - but I was written off as if I was a conspiracy-idiot

I'd say that yesterday's bombing was very symbolic

[denoir 0]

This is Spain's Sept 11.

How many days passed between 9/11 and yesterday?

 I know - but I was written off as if I was a conspiracy-idiot  

I'd say that yesterday's bombing was very symbolic  

And you wonder why you were written off as a conspiracy-idiot?

No, but serioursly, the 911 is an American fetish, not an AQ fetish. And you are conveniently ignoring the 100 other AQ related terrorist attacks that had nothing to do with the number "911". It was just a coincidence, nothing more.

[brgnorway 0]

Quote[/b] ]And you are conveniently ignoring the 100 other AQ related terrorist attacks that had nothing to do with the number "911".

Good point. I didn't think of that, your right on this one though! However, it doesn't exclude the possibility of a bisarre symbolic meaning from the terrorists.

[Guba 0]

Quote[/b] ]Thats the difference. America is the enemy, and Spain is their ally

Just want to make clear that Spanish government gave support to the war on Iraq despite the opposition of the vast majority of the population and political forces.

[Balschoiw 0]

It all seams to be so clear:

- stolen car with Koran tape in it and some ignitors.

- eMail to the same paper AQ adressed after major attacks

- mentioning of a major terrorist attack in the US that is short ahead (90 percent prepared)

but what just don´t goes into my mind is the fact that the explosive used is exactly the ETA explosives and the modus operandi isn´t that far from ETA at all. Besides the missing call to warn of the attacks but ETA has not warned of every attack during the last years.

What benefit the ETA would have if they managed to blame AQ ?

Distract from themselves. ETA has lost their military leader structure over the last years. With this attack they could have made clear that they are still a player in the game and willing to adopt governmetal methods to achieve their goal. One step up on the ladder of violance.

It just all suits too perfect for AQ imo. I guess it was ETA.

And for IceFire´s bomb them all logic. I blame the war on terror first hand on the rising terrorism spiral that we experience right now. You fight terrorists with very little sucess and the terrorists blow up something bigger just to show you that you can´t fight them. The war on terror is a nobrainer. It doesn´t do anything to terrorists. They just don´t care about it. It only speeds up the intervasls between major terrorist assuaults. You say you will win the war on terror, you get more assaults. AQ is no centraliced organisation, so even if you killed Bin Laden there will be no influence on the organization itself. A lot of national terrorists just act under the AQ flag but have selfrunning organizations and little cells that need no masterbrain like Bin Laden.

AQ is no worldwide organization but a movement and ideology. I guess that sums it up best.

[Cpt. FrostBite 0]

I think AQ could be behind the attacks. I don't think it's a cover for the ETA. Why spain and not the UK? Who knows. Perhaps they just attack every major country that supports the US in afghanistan and Iraq. Spain is a major player so it's not that wierd. The UK might have been more difficult or something like that. I don't know. Keep in mind that a lot of stuff seems to be intercepted by spanish police, so this operaion might have failed in the UK since they tend to call in the army in force whenever they think something it about to happen. That would have ruined the operation.

But perhaps it was a coorperate attack of the ETA and AQ. Who knows. All I know is that don't deserve to live, and that AQ has absolutely no right to call themselfs moslims and say that this is a Jihad.

They say the US is next. Well, that was to be expected. Remember that the WTC attack actually failed because they attacked it too early (this are they're words). They aimed for much, much more kills. Also rememner that now is the time to attack the US. The US has no idea where AQ is right now and they can't attack another country, bacause they already attacked the two possible places they could be. Se a next attack can't be followed by a war or anything like that. Imagin the shock; the US being attacked, thousends dead and nothing the US can do about than just mourn. That will be a major blow for the US.

[turms 0]

Quote[/b] ]bacause they already attacked the two possible places they could be.

Well Saddam was a enemy to Osama...

As for the bombings; i would like to express my condolences to the victims and their families.

It is too early to say who/what was behind this attack, there are extremely conflicting reports about it. Well see...

[bn880 5]

Quote[/b] ]bacause they already attacked the two possible places they could be.

Well Saddam was a enemy to Osama...

As for the bombings; i would like to express my condolences to the victims and their families.

It is too early to say who/what was behind this attack, there are extremely conflicting reports about it. Well see...

As opposed to Bush, Bin Laden and Al Qaeda is not all about personal and childish revenge. They are upset very much at what the few have done to Arabs and muslims in Iraq, it does not matter that their leader was an idiot and they disliked him. Forget about this, it does not matter now that Osama disliked Hussein, the few have gone much farther to humiliate and destroy Iraq than to just get Hussein.

[John C Flett 0]

Quote[/b] ]Now that Europe is being attacked with high casualties maybe they will begin to understand why the United States and men like George W. Bush are doing what we have.

Actually I think this is further evidence of just how wrong people like Bush and Blair were. If this is ( as I strongly believe ) AQ it appears to be a direct response to these leaders overseas policy. The reported email to Al Quds Al Arabi described Spain as "one of the pillars of the crusade alliance" and "settling old accounts".

Not that terrorists need many excuses but western leaders seem determined to give them anyway. Bush and Blair have made the US and Britian more feared and reviled than they have been for probably most of their history over the past couple of years and of course it is innocent lives that suffer.

Mayby I'm alone in thinking this ( hopefully not ) but this seems another signal that current policy is making things worse and we need our leaders to learn from this and not repeat their earlier mistakes. I don't know what the solution is but I know bombing the crap out of random countries and arrests without trial or evidence is not going to help.

[Gollum1 0]

@ Mar. 12 2004,09:10)]

I would not be surprised if this were Al-Quada.

This only underscores the fact that they MUST BE ERADICATED FROM THE FACE OF THIS PLANET. Nothing less will do.

This is Spain's Sept 11.

Wake up people. Now that Europe is being attacked with high casualties maybe they will begin to understand why the United States and men like George W. Bush are doing what we have.

Absolutely. And there is only one clear course of action for all true Spanish patriots: invade Portugal. And there isn't a moment to lose- Those bastards could strike again at any time!

Well said.