Rifle noise

[jaenak 0]

That you know of, what's the quietest rifle in real life? That includes, suppressed, unsuppressed, super-sonic ammo, subsonic ammo and things of the sort. In the game the guns get pretty darn quiet but in real life sound isn't reduced anywhere near as much.

[Baron von Beer 0]

.22 with subsonics, sounds about like snapping your fingers. (At least in the rifle I fire them from) Some pump charged pellet guns make more noise.

Now as to effectiveness....

[jaenak 0]

I was looking at the P90 sub-machine gun and the Five-seveN pistol last night and thought there was a silencer on the Five-seveN but couldn't find it listed anywhere on the internet. The P90 however does have one but its not that effective. The P90 without a silencer is about 160-165dB but with a silencer its 130-135dB. Not a whole lot of difference when it comes to stealth. The only real purpose it seems to serve (that I can tell) is it would bring down the sound to a less dangerous level.

The Hk and the Bizon in the game, I would stake one of my paychecks on it that they sound no where near that quiet in real life. (funny part is that I'm currently unemployed so I couldn't stake a paycheck on it if I wanted to)

[ralphwiggum 6]

try Inqisitor's HD pack, and its MP5SD. that is pretty much how loud MP5SD is. and the recoils are pretty close to real thing too.

[MSpencer 0]

Well, as far as stealth, it's not the gun you're shooting... not at all.

100% of stealth is the way you handle yourself on a mission. If you maintain stealth, you never have to fire one bullet from your weapon. As for recon, you should never even be seen, and you should never have to fire one bullet. Any demolition missions should consist of a charge being placed, and no targets being neutralized.

The general rule of stealth is never fire your weapon. You leave shell casings, probably cause some noise no matter what, leave blood, and leave a big dead body. Now that can cramp your style.

Worst comes to worst, you don't even need a silencer. If you shoot someone, you have 3-5 minutes before someone notices, if he's on a patrol or guarding somewhere (Which would be the main reason he would be a threat). I, personally, wouldn't use a silenced weapon. They're less powerful, have less range, and they're useless.

[Baron von Beer 0]

They do have their place. They can buy you precious moments in an assault. Especially true in a built up environment where hostiles are less likely to have line of sight to one another, as then sound is the only way they will know something isn't right. (not talking about right around the corner, but say in a subdivision for example, from one house to a few down, etc. or a large structure like an office building, hotel, etc)Even if they are on a rotating patrol, those few minutes could be the difference between them reacting the second you make contact, to dropping a few more targets before they know fully what has happened. It is no accident that such supressed weapons are made available to the units that would take part in such operations. To the average line soldier though, yes, they are of questionable value or even debilitating.

As for the P90, AFAIK, there is a silenced, and non silenced version. I imagine the silencer is available again for specialized service, or even law enforcement (who the weapon has been heavily marketed for) who desire reduced "volume" should they need to employ the gun in a populated area.

[jaenak 0]

I'm not talking stealth as far as the operator goes, I'm talking stealth as far as a gun goes. You take an artillery piece of a rifle and shoot that off and everyone within 5 miles of you is going to know you're there. But if you take umm...a silenced MP5 and shoot that, the enemy is going to have to be ALOT closer to figure out you exist (by listening that is). Therefore the Silenced MP5 is alot stealthier than an elephant gun. That's what I'm talking about. And along those lines is what I was asking about when I asked what was the quietest (or stealthiest) gun you know of whether or not you've seen it or shot it in real life.

And Ralph, thank's for the suggestion! Inqisitor's MP5SD is awesome! Sure I like guns, but I like them to be somewhat realistic and that's what this thing is. Thanks.

[madmedic 0]

Well, if someone tells me how / where to host a video clip...I can post video footage of a silenced M4 chambered in 9mm being fired, and video of a silenced 5.56 chambered M4, and un-silenced 5.56 M4 being fired next to one another.

[Frisbee 0]

Here,on this page you find a video of the MP5SD being fired,and it's pretty quiet imho.

Here

[jaenak 0]

 S**T!!  I had no idea!  I thought OFP was unrealistic with the Hk.  I stand corrected!  There's no bullet sound in that movie!  The only sound you hear is the clicking of the bolt as it snaps back and forth to eject the spent cartridge and load a fresh one.  The only way a person can get a more realistic MP5SD than OFP is if the texture is more accurate and the gun gives off that gunpowder smoke.  Dude!  If you took the MP5SD and made a bolt action version with a smooth action, you'd be perfectly silent and there wouldn't even be a flash.  There'd be absolutely no way for anyone to tell you're there unless they saw you waving your arms in the air on your way into the area.  (figuratively speaking)  If you were a BlackOp, you'd be a completely undetectable night assasin out to 130 yards (about 108m).  Reason why 130 yards is because the Canadian 9mm parabelum can pierce the M1 helmet (normal combat helmet) out to that range according to a report looking to be published by the US Army in a cartridge test.  Even so...I'd be a cool idea!

[madmedic 0]

In real life, it is slightly louder than you can tell in that video...but, yes...mostly you hear the action cycling, and a small "crack".

If you are not using subsonic ammo the "crack" is a little louder

[ralphwiggum 6]

yup. on top of that there is just a little more 'oomph' than INQ's MP5SD. But it can still kill people.....

[The_One_And_Only 0]

Thats an amazing vid, man. Awesome gun.

Oh, and Hi, I'm a noob.

[jaenak 0]

The_One_And_Only, we all were at one point and time. Things come with time. There's a learning curve. Don't worry about being a noobie. (just between you and me, that's what I needed to hear when I first started so I told it to you)

[Gollum1 0]

From HKPro.com, about an MP5SD:

Quote[/b] ]How would one describe what an SD sounds like being fired? Many gun rags that are available over the counter describe them as being so silent that only the bolt opening and closing is audible. That is pure pablum. Sound suppressed firearms are relatively loud, but suppressed .22 pistols and rifles are very quiet. Most all can be fired without hearing protection, but the key to what the suppressor does, in layman's terms, is to make a gunshot sound like something other than a gunshot. This is an accurate description: They do not sound like gunshots. More like a pneumatic staple gun. As sound suppression systems go, the SD is one of the more quiet available...

Recorded gun sounds normally sound very weak, but I think that vid comes pretty close to it.

[Grizzlie 0]

I have a question a little off-topic but about silencers too.

What about muzzle flash on silenced weapons?

[Matthijs 40]

I have a question a little off-topic but about silencers too.

What about muzzle flash on silenced weapons?

Muzzle flash is caused by hot vapors leaving the barrel. The main function of the sound suppressor is to gradually release the muzzle energy, and heat makes up a lot of it. The silencer forms a container in which gasses can expand and cool, before gradually (relatively gradual that is..) being released into the air. Thus, the sound suppressor will also reduce muzzle flash.

Unsuppressed:

<OBJECT CLASSID="clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000" WIDTH=200 HEIGHT=50><PARAM NAME=MOVIE VALUE=http://bbe.korpsmariniers.com/img/misc/silencers/unsilenced.swf><PARAM NAME=PLAY VALUE=TRUE><PARAM NAME=LOOP VALUE=TRUE><PARAM NAME=QUALITY VALUE=HIGH><EMBED SRC=http://bbe.korpsmariniers.com/img/misc/silencers/unsilenced.swf WIDTH=200 HEIGHT=50 PLAY=TRUE LOOP=TRUE QUALITY=HIGH></EMBED></OBJECT>

Suppressed:

<OBJECT CLASSID="clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000" WIDTH=200 HEIGHT=50><PARAM NAME=MOVIE VALUE=http://bbe.korpsmariniers.com/img/misc/silencers/silenced.swf><PARAM NAME=PLAY VALUE=TRUE><PARAM NAME=LOOP VALUE=TRUE><PARAM NAME=QUALITY VALUE=HIGH><EMBED SRC=http://bbe.korpsmariniers.com/img/misc/silencers/silenced.swf WIDTH=200 HEIGHT=50 PLAY=TRUE LOOP=TRUE QUALITY=HIGH></EMBED></OBJECT>

About the P90: the 138dB vs 165db doesn't look that impressive in numbers, but don't be fooled: every 3dB halves the perceived sound pressure, and reduces actual energy even more (dB is a logarithmic function). The Gemtech supressor on the P90 even surpasses performance of the MP5 with supressor. According to some sources, it's even better than the MP5SD, although I personally doubt that.

Quote[/b] ]In real life, it is slightly louder than you can tell in that video...but, yes...mostly you hear the action cycling, and a small "crack".

If you are not using subsonic ammo the "crack" is a little louder

Find some documentation about the MP5SD, and you will see that using subsonic ammo is not a good idea.

For example, see the text, just above the movie on the page that Frisbee referred to (http://www.hkpro.com/mp5sd.htm):

"Key to the uniqueness of the SD suppressor is that it is coupled with a barrel that has 30 2.5 mm ports in it to drop supersonic bullets to subsonic velocity for even greater noise reduction.  It is often confused, but shooting subsonic bullets in an MP5SD is a definite no-no for what is described in ballistic performance as the world's most expensive .380.   The average reduction in velocity is 200 feet per second.  You can thus see why subsonic is not a good idea, apart from the unreliability that you are introducing the gun as well.  Supersonic always for the SD, but subsonic is in order for all the other muzzle mounted suppressors marketed by or manufactured for, HK submachine guns."

To get back to the original question:

The quietest would undoubdedly be a bold action .22 rimfire rifle. The unsuppressed rifle itself sounds much like a toy. With a sound suppressor, it would sound like a pneumatic click.

The biggest reason is that the 22 rimfire has only a very small amount of powder. Bold action because it will have no moving parts or large openings when firing (in contrast to semi-automatic or revolver-like systems)

[jaenak 0]

I second all that Matthijs. You've done your homework!

Problem with your statement about the P90 suppressor is that you still wouldn't catch me calling a 138dB gunshot quiet. I'm a licensed recording engineer and I know what different sound levels sound like and despite the fact that 165dB may have a higher sound pressure level and may have a much higher actual energy, no matter what science may say and no matter how good it may look on paper, 138dB is still pretty dang loud. 130dB (generally speaking) is the volume of a police siren up close, 140dB is the threshold of pain, 150dB is the volume of a jet engine up close. For a gunshot 138dB may be quiet to many other guns and ammunitions, but 138dB is still pretty dang loud. The only real practical purpose the silencer for the P90 has is to lessen the gunshot, not to make the gun quiet enough to make it suitable for a SpecOp role. The P90's suppressor may outperform that of a MP5SD, but that just tells you how loud the SS190 round is by its self.

[Matthijs 40]

I second all that Matthijs.  You've done your homework!

Problem with your statement about the P90 suppressor is that you still wouldn't catch me calling a 138dB gunshot quiet.  I'm a licensed recording engineer and I know what different sound levels sound like and despite the fact that 165dB may have a higher sound pressure level and may have a much higher actual energy, no matter what science may say and no matter how good it may look on paper, 138dB is still pretty dang loud.  130dB (generally speaking) is the volume of a police siren up close, 140dB is the threshold of pain, 150dB is the volume of a jet engine up close.  For a gunshot 138dB may be quiet to many other guns and ammunitions, but 138dB is still pretty dang loud.  The only real practical purpose the silencer for the P90 has is to lessen the gunshot, not to make the gun quiet enough to make it suitable for a SpecOp role.  The P90's suppressor may outperform that of a MP5SD, but that just tells you how loud the SS190 round is by its self.  

Yes, I know. Again, see the MP5SD page (http://www.hkpro.com/mp5sd.htm). I'm not saying 138dB is silent, all I'm saying is that it's an impressive reduction. Jet engine up close or a police siren is a big difference don't you think?

According to one of the sources, the P90+SP90 produces less sound than the MP5SD. That's what I doubt, but that's also what I meant...

http://remtek.com/arms/fn/p90/sp90/tables.htm

http://remtek.com/arms/fn/p90/sp90/index.htm

BTW:  Apart from the fact that subsonic ammo is not a good idea, check the ammo table on the remtek page: MP5SD with subsonic ammo for both "subsonic" and "supersonic" tests... ?

[jaenak 0]

I know. I understood what you said and I agree with everything you said, just thought I'd put in my 2 cents worth for one reason or another. That's all.

[Matthijs 40]

I know.  I understood what you said and I agree with everything you said, just thought I'd put in my 2 cents worth for one reason or another.  That's all.  

Ok, let's have a beer.

[madmedic 0]

Quote[/b] ]In real life, it is slightly louder than you can tell in that video...but, yes...mostly you hear the action cycling, and a small "crack".

If you are not using subsonic ammo the "crack" is a little louder

Find some documentation about the MP5SD, and you will see that using subsonic ammo is not a good idea.

I was speaking (well...typing) of silenced weapons, in general.