Macedonia (FYROM) president missing

[ralphwiggum 6]

http://www.cnn.com/2004....ex.html

Quote[/b] ]SARAJEVO, Bosnia-Herzegovina (AP) -- A plane carrying Macedonia's president to an international investment conference in Bosnia has disappeared from radar, U.S. peacekeepers said.

The Macedonian government aircraft, carrying President Boris Trajkovski to the conference in the western Bosnian city of Mostar, lost contact with air-traffic controllers near the border between Bosnia and Montenegro, said Capt. Ben Thorp, a spokesman for U.S. peacekeepers in Bosnia.

Officials said it was too early to determine whether the plane had crashed.

Trajkovski's Cabinet chief, Andrej Lepavcov, told The Associated Press that the European air traffic monitoring agency informed Macedonia's government that the president's plane had "disappeared off the radar screens."

"We know nothing beyond that at this point," he said.

[theavonlady 2]

edit: too serious for jokes.

[Vognsen 0]

Its crashed, rescue team is on the way to the scene now - they dont know weather or not any passengers survived.

[Gollum1 0]

Just in: No survivors. He is dead.

[Apollo 0]

It was not a very famous man this Macedonian prime minister ,i definatly never cared to learn much of the current Macedonia anyway.Just to press a face on this report i dug up a profile of this man on BBC:

Quote[/b] ]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1408747.stm

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

Greece does not have a federal system, thus the region of Macedonia can not have a president.

The president of FYROM, however, has indeed been confirmed dead in a plane crash. Tragic accident

[miles teg 1]

It was not a very famous man this Macedonian prime minister ,i definatly never cared to learn much of the current Macedonia anyway.Just to press a face on this report i dug up a profile of this man on BBC:

Quote[/b] ]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1408747.stm

??   Who cares if he was famous or not!!! That was a very silly statement.

 

This man was incredibly courageous in uniting Macedonia's various ethnic groups even in the face of incredible pressure from the Serbian population of Macedonia (that nearly overthrew him because of his belief in giving the Albanians more equal rights and political power in Macedonia).  

He and his military also did some truly pioneering work with the United Nations/NATO by actually allowing UN/NATO inspectors to follow and advise Macedonian Army and police troops in combat so as to avoid allegations of ethnic cleansing and to help insure that the Macedonian Army commanders did not engage on their own in any such war crimes (or at least to limit the war crimes which happen in almost any conflict).  The media was also given very good access to battle areas in which it seemed as if the Macedonian military performed very professionally and took many precautions to minimize civilian casualties during some of the heavy assaults on Albanian rebel strongholds.  

The media access also allowed the world to see towns for example where they were constantly being attacked by Albanian rebels in the hills who were sniping at both police and residents.   This showed the world why they were launching massive attacks against these rebel forces (although the world media didn't get the Albanian side of the story very well).

This joint military/world political pressure along with Trajkovski's reforms in the Macedonian government (to give Albanians more rights)  was successful in forcing most of the Albanian rebels to drop their armed rebellion.  In essence all sides won.  

This leader was able to look at the problem from both sides and was able to achieve a solution using both military and political methods in a highly intelligent manner under incredibly difficult circumstances.  

 

From what I know of this man, I personally regard him as one of my heroes.   I saw an interview with him once on the BBC and he was incredibly passionate about his belief in a united Macedonia and in Democracy.   Are all of Macedonia's ethnic problems solved?  No but Trajkovski clearly showed the right path for a stronger and more stable Macedonia. He also had Macedonia well on its way to joining the EU as well.

For me this news was incredibly sad because I truly believe the world has lost a great leader even if most people can't pronounce his name and he was only from a very small country.  

I hope that world military and political leaders will take note of his accomplishments and follow his example.

In a world full of morally bankrupt/ethnocentric/ultra-nationalist politicians, Trajkovski was the rare example of a politician, who while not perfect, was a champion for humanity.

My prayers go to Macedonia and to the family of Boris Trajkovski.

R.I.P. Boris.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[Pipski 0]

He must have been a remarkable man to get the state of government in Macedonia to where it is now. It's not that long (less than 20 years according to my old history teacher) since parliamentary meetings in Macedonia used to degenerate into gunfights, with members shooting at each other from the benches.

[MSpencer 0]

Hahahhahaha... reminds me of the video of those two fat Russian parliament members slugging at each other during a session. Good stuff.

I didn't even know Macedonia had a president. Eh, sounded like a good guy.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

Hahahhahaha... reminds me of the video of those two fat Russian parliament members slugging at each other during a session. Good stuff.

I didn't even know Macedonia had a president. Eh, sounded like a good guy.

I don't see what is so funny about a human being crashing on an airplane

You are right about Macedonia, though, they have no president as they are a Greek province.

FYROM, on the other hand, have a president. Trajkovi was his name.

[MSpencer 0]

Quote[/b] ]since parliamentary meetings in Macedonia used to degenerate into gunfights, with members shooting at each other from the benches.

I wasn't laughing about a guy ending up smashed on the side of a cliff in his airplane.

[denoir 0]

You are right about Macedonia, though, they have no president as they are a Greek province.

LOL. I was wondering about why the thread title was changed

Macedonia is both a Greek province and a country. "Makedonia" if you want to be correct. For those that don't know why Macedonia has such a silly formal international name ("Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia"), it is because of the Greeks being assholes about the name. There is namely a Greek province with the same name. (You know Alexander the Great of Macedonia...)

Anyway, it's plain stupid. Oh look:

Paris, Texas

Paris, Maine

Paris, Idaho

Paris, Virginia

Wow and I don't see France taking diplomatic actions against the US because of this

It's called FYROM because of stupid politics. Every normal person calls it "Macedonia".

Anyway, to go back on topic: I didn't know anything about him but from what I've read today he seemed like a good man. Too bad. That region badly needs good men.

[Placebo 29]

Grimsby - Ontario (Canada)

Grimsby - NE Lincolnshire (England)

That's it I'm suing

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

The country's full name is FYROM, so it can be differentiated from the Greek province of Macedonia.

If we hadn't pushed for this, one day in the future one of the world's nation builders may think "Wait a sec, there's a region called Macedonia, which is not within the country of Macedonia. We can't have that, let's put the province of Macedonia into the country it belongs to."

I'm sorry, but that is not on. Macedonia is an inherent Greek name, it is a Greek province. If a country is called like this, it suggests some sort of ties with Greece. However, since 1821, perhaps earlier, Greece and FYROM have no links whatsoever ethnically. People in FYROM are Albanians and Yugoslavs, people in Macedonia are Greeks.

FYROM used to be a colony of ours, but I don't think any Greeks have been living there since the Turkish invasion.

Hence, FYROM != Macedonia. FYI, I do correct every single person (in real life too) about this when they talk about "Macedonia". Makes me look like an arsehole, but frankly, I don't care. Macedonia is ours - FYROM ain't.

EDIT: Everyone official agrees with me:

Council of Europe:

http://www.coe.int/T....OM

US State Department:

http://www.state.gov/p/eur/ci/mk/

CIA Factbook:

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/mk.html

International Red Cross:

http://www.icrc.org/Web....ocument

[Placebo 29]

Fact is most "common" people know of it as Macedonia, Greek people don't like that, sorry but tough, the forum is international not Greek.

[miles teg 1]

They have confirmed that he is dead.

They just recovered his body.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm....cid=716

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[denoir 0]

If we hadn't pushed for this, one day in the future one of the world's nation builders may think "Wait a sec, there's a region called Macedonia, which is not within the country of Macedonia. We can't have that, let's put the province of Macedonia into the country it belongs to."

Yeah, I'm sure that Paris,Texas has the ambition of taking over France's Paris.  

Quote[/b] ]People in FYROM are Albanians and Yugoslavs, people in Macedonia are Greeks.

LOL. You should do *some* basic research before you start shouting things. There is no such thing as "Yugoslavs". It's a political designation, not ethnical. Like "Soviets". The people in Macedonia (FYROM) are Macedonians. And that's the official version. You can check one of your references, for instance this: CIA World Factbook

Furthermore the local name is "Republika Makedonija" or short form "Makedonija", so Macedonia is a good translation of the local name.

Fact is most "common" people know of it as Macedonia, Greek people don't like that, sorry but tough, the forum is international not Greek.

I couldn't agree more.

[Placebo 29]

I couldn't agree more.

Good so now this thread can get back to being about the loss of the President

[ralphwiggum 6]

If we hadn't pushed for this, one day in the future one of the world's nation builders may think "Wait a sec, there's a region called Macedonia, which is not within the country of Macedonia. We can't have that, let's put the province of Macedonia into the country it belongs to."

Yeah, I'm sure that Paris,Texas has the ambition of taking over France's Paris.  

Never EVER underestimate Texas, denoir.

Anyways, this is close to the place where Ron Brown's plane crashed. Guess there better be some serious reworking of flight path there.

[denoir 0]

Anyways, this is close to the place where Ron Brown's plane crashed. Guess there better be some serious reworking of flight path there.

Well, not very close. Brown's plane crashed in Dubrovnik, Croatia (south on the map below, by the smaller "CROATIA" text) while Trajkovski's plane went down by Mostar (go north from Dubrovnik, inside Bosnia).

Brown's plane slammed against a cliff. And I must say that I'm not surprised. I've landed at Dubrovnik a number of times and it's a very nasty approach as the plane makes a thigt turn around a mountain. [ dubrovnik picture 170 k ]. The ILS system on the plane was malfunctioning and it missed the turn and slammed against the mountain wall.

As for Trajkovski's plane, they're talking about an engine failure or fuel leak.

[ralphwiggum 6]

thank you for clearing that up. from aviation perspective i guess that region is higly dangerous.

[Balschoiw 0]

Not only from the aviation aspect but the region his plane crashed is poisoned with huge amounts of active landmines.

That doesn´t make things better.

I don´t know much about this guy but he seems to be a real loss as he had the capability to unite variouse ethnic groups.

3 days of national sorrow shows that I guess.

It´s really bad that only the good guys seem to leave this planet too soon.

"Die Fahne zum Gebet! Stillgestanden!"

[Apollo 0]

Quote[/b] ]?? Who cares if he was famous or not!!! That was a very silly statement.

Oops sorry about that ,i didn't mean to offend or imply that he was a bad prime minister ,i just stated that i never read anything on him before and presumed most people on this forum didn't knew anything of him ,hence i searched up a profile on him so that people had some information on who he was.

Though i must mention ,etnicity's is not the only problem for Europe in that region ,a number of Balkan country's among them Macedonia are major narcotics transit country's ,having high amount's of crime in their country's (Albania ,ouch!)

I don't know what this man's policy has been on organized crime and drug traffic ,but given the region a very tough policy would be dangerous for his own life.

And the UCK ,Albanian millitia's that fought in Kossovo as well ,actually being the starters of the Kosovo war and the short Macedonian civil war that happened afterwards ,i don't think theyre fight is ultimatly over.