Us soldiers going awol in canada

[bn880 5]

Quote[/b] ]

Thursday, February 19, 2004

FAYETTEVILLE, N.C. (AP) - A soldier in the 82nd Airborne Division who says he had "a romantic vision" of military life has left his post and is living in Canada, where he has sought refuge as a conscientious objector.

Jeremy Hinzman, a member of the 2nd Battalion of the 504th Brigade Parachute Infantry Regiment, could be prosecuted as a deserter if he is caught inside the United States.

He'll be listed on a national database and could be arrested, but the army won't go looking for him, said Sgt. Pam Smith, a spokeswoman for the 82nd Airborne, based at Fort Bragg.

"We don't have time to go and track down people who go AWOL," she said. "We're fighting a war."

Hinzman, who grew up in Rapid City, S.D., joined the army in January 2001. He and his wife and baby fled last month to Toronto.

Hinzman told the Fayetteville Observer by phone that the socialist structure of the military appealed to him - he liked the subsidized housing and groceries and, at the end of his service, the money for college.

"It seemed like a good financial decision," he said, adding, "I had a romantic vision of what the army was."

But he was horrified from the start of basic training, by the chanting about blood and killing during marches, by the shooting at targets without faces and by what he called the dehumanization of the enemy.

"full" story

http://www.canada.com/nationa....e8d365d

and a similar story

http://www.cbc.ca/storyview/CBC/2003/10/31/awol031031

Well I thought if a sculpture deserves a thread than the living deserve at least another.

Morals eh http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2003/559/559p15.htm

[Impavido 0]

Bah, hes not some idealist. He's not even a coward. He just used the American military system to get an economic boost and ran off. No huge moral debate going on. I think his being "disturbed" by the training is a total BS statement to try to politicize and justify his greed. He was in the military for 3 years...is he stupid?

What a putz

[John_Q 0]

Quote[/b] ]"It seemed like a good financial decision," he said, adding, "I had a romantic vision of what the army was."

How stupid could he be? The U.S. military has two primary purposes:

1. Killing people.

2. Blowing stuff up.

It's pretty obvious that you have to be able to do these if you want to be a combat soldier, so why join in the first place?

[Impavido 0]

Like I said, its BS to cover his economic motivations

[canukausiuka 1]

Exactly. The guy thought it was an easy buck. If you aren't willing to deal with boot camp, what would make you think you could handle the military at all? He joined to make an easy buck, which is absolutely the wrong reason to join. I understand it can be a good incentive, but you have to go in willing to actually follow through. I dont wish ill on him, but he really should have thought about that before he joined up.

The whole "romantic" vision of the army and the "dehumanization" stuff is just pure BS though. He's just saying that to justify himself. Sure, there is a romantic image that some associate with the army, but a little bit of checking out should reveal that its not all fun and games. And when you are making a career choice, thats something you really ought to look into.

Anybody else thinking the guy is just a little slow for having joined b/c he liked the Army's "socialist structure"?

[Tex -USMC- 0]

No sympathy. You sign on the dotted line, and that's your life for the remainder of your enlistment. I suppose he took the airborne option for the extra jump pay, right? What a douche bag.

[hellfish6 7]

It happens.

In basic training at Fort Benning, my company had a 40% AWOL rate. And of the five guys that I reported to my first unit with, only two of us actually completed our entire enlistments.

[Impavido 0]

If you dont mind my prying Hellfish, what year were you in boot camp?

[hellfish6 7]

Summer of '96.

[Warin 0]

It happens.

In basic training at Fort Benning, my company had a 40% AWOL rate. And of the five guys that I started out with, only two of us actually completed our entire enlistments.

40% AWOL rate? That's freaking insane!

And the army doesnt really care about those non-hackers who sign up and then run away? You'd think there would be more trouble for this guy considering the nation is, in theory, at war.

[Impavido 0]

Holy Crap..

Thats higher than I expected, but I guess its common for people to learn a military career is not for them. But at least those people didnt rob uncle sam for all he was worth.

[hellfish6 7]

Yeah. It started out in reception battalion. We had maybe 200 people then. Maybe 10 attempted suicide, another 30 just ran away right there before we even started training. Once we got to our actual training units, we lost another 40 or so in the first month. My platoon, I think, was the only one that didn't have anyone go AWOL. I knew a bunch of guys that did it, though, from another platoon. I think most just weren't prepared for the mental aspects of basic. The whole thing was a lot more mental than physical - anyone can run two miles in 15 minutes eventually, but not everyone can stand being yelled at or treated like shit for 16-18 weeks, especially when your drill sergeants are playing a schizophrenic version of good cop/bad cop.

I remember the first time I was able to at the reception battalion, I called my family crying and told them I made a mistake. Reception battalion was the worst, as you've got nothing but time to think of everything and everybody you left behind in the real world. Once you actually get to your training unit, though, you're usually so busy you just kind of worry about the next 5 minutes and nothing else.

[Sgt. Stryker 0]

the real use of delta force.... "to kill and embarass pussy ass mother effers who try to screw over the government by using the military as a scpaegoat". Its true all in a few days this sorry guy is going to die a horrible death of.... trust me its horrible. No but seriously, if he wanted out that bad all he had to do was claim he was insane and he woulda gotten a honorable discharge. He is an idiot so he will pay the price, simple as that.

[Warin 0]

the real use of delta force.... "to kill and embarass pussy ass mother effers who try to screw over the government by using the military as a scpaegoat". Its true all in a few days this sorry guy is going to die a horrible death of.... trust me its horrible. No but seriously, if he wanted out that bad all he had to do was claim he was insane and he woulda gotten a honorable discharge. He is an idiot so he will pay the price, simple as that.

'pay a price' for going AWOL?  I sure hope you mean to jail for a suitable amount of time.

Otherwise that sounds sort of like a threat, and that isnt exactly a good idea now, is it?

PS: I think you'd have to prove you are insane. And that's a tough thing to do. ie: Shrink: "If there had been a drill sergeant with a club at your elbow when you went AWOL, would you still go AWOL?" Trainee: "What, do you think I am insane?!?" Shrink: "Not in the least. back to basic for you!"

[hellfish6 7]

When you go AWOL in basic, they almost always catch you (you don't have any civillian clothes and the bases are so far away from civilization that the MPs can just drop by the bus station or call the taxi company looking for people in PT shorts when they feel like looking for you). You don't go to jail per se, but you also don't get to go home. I remember some guys who went AWOL were at Benning longer than I was, doing shit duty like mowing lawns or KP under guard.

They eventually get what's called an Entry-Level Seperation, which basically says "Hey, we both made mistakes. We shouldn't have taken you in and you shouldn't be in the Army".

If you go AWOL in an actual combat unit, though, it's a different story. But there are a lot of people who just join the Army for the educational and monetary benefits. Hell, that's why I joined - I wanted to go to college for free. For me, blowing shit up and travelling the world was a fringe benefit.

[Impavido 0]

lol, I seriously doubt that Delta Force would waste their efforts on such a petty problem. They have MUCH bigger fish to fry.

[Wick_105 0]

why do they always run to canada....are they insane....its bloody cold here right now.....I would have gone to mexico lots warmer down there....we should post new signs at the border...."to any american soldier who is awol, go to mexico our country is allready full of trash that cant hack it in the real world"

[Tex -USMC- 0]

we should post new signs at the border...."to any american soldier who is awol, go to mexico our country is allready full of trash that cant hack it in the real world"

Err... what exactly are you implying?

[Warin 0]

LOL!  Or how about those Americans with no sense of direction...

Earlier this week, some lady drove to Vancouver, BRITISH COLUMBIA instead of vancouver, WASHINGTON.

Would have been fine, but she was carrying what was likely a live hand grenade in her glove compartment.  And Canadian Customs generally doesnt see that as a good idea

And if I remember the report correctly, she was from Texas ;)

[Impavido 0]

If I was running out of teh US I'd go north.

Better beer and smaller women

[Impavido 0]

LOL, yea sounds like a Texan all right..did she have an electric chair on a trailer behind her car?

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Would have been fine, but she was carrying what was likely a live hand grenade in her glove compartment.  And Canadian Customs generally doesnt see that as a good idea

And if I remember the report correctly, she was from Texas ;)

*sigh*

If I had a dime for every time I left a grenade in my glove compartment... I'd have 3 dollars and 40 cents.

[Warin 0]

@ Feb. 20 2004,05:51)]

Would have been fine, but she was carrying what was likely a live hand grenade in her glove compartment.  And Canadian Customs generally doesnt see that as a good idea

And if I remember the report correctly, she was from Texas ;)

*sigh*

If I had a dime for every time I left a grenade in my glove compartment... I'd have 3 dollars and 40 cents.

ROTFL.

I just couldnt believe that she couldnt discern the difference between driving north versus south. Let alone the CANADA on the signs that say Vancouver, BC on them!

[Schoeler 0]

It happens.

In basic training at Fort Benning, my company had a 40% AWOL rate. And of the five guys that I reported to my first unit with, only two of us actually completed our entire enlistments.

I never could get over the guys who couldn't hack bootcamp. I mean the military graduates like what, 200,000 or better new recruits each year?

If that many people from all walks of life can make it and you can't, well that just says plenty now doesn't it?

When we got to boot on the very first day, they came out screaming and then told us this:

"You signed up for 6 years and we've got you for 6 years. You can either do your time in the Navy or do it in federal prison, we don't give a damn."

Talk about wiping the sunshine and romantic notions away in a flash.

[Schoeler 0]

the real use of delta force.... "to kill and embarass pussy ass mother effers who try to screw over the government by using the military as a scpaegoat". Its true all in a few days this sorry guy is going to die a horrible death of.... trust me its horrible. No but seriously, if he wanted out that bad all he had to do was claim he was insane and he woulda gotten a honorable discharge. He is an idiot so he will pay the price, simple as that.

'pay a price' for going AWOL?  I sure hope you mean to jail for a suitable amount of time.

Otherwise that sounds sort of like a threat, and that isnt exactly a good idea now, is it?

PS: I think you'd have to prove you are insane.  And that's a tough thing to do. ie: Shrink: "If there had been a drill sergeant with a club at your elbow when you went AWOL, would you still go AWOL?" Trainee: "What, do you think I am insane?!?" Shrink: "Not in the least. back to basic for you!"

I knew a guy who tried this from my company. He faked a nervous breakdown and they put him up in the looney barracks for two weeks for evaluation. He came back after those two weeks sane, sober and motivated to get going. When I asked him about the sudden turnaround he told me this story:

He said he expected to get there and find out everyone else would be faking it too. Well, they weren't. Only him and one other guys were goldbricking it. I'll put this in his words: "The rest of them motherf%uckers were foolgoose bonkers!" He said in order to go to sleep at night without getting killed he and the other guy would have to build a fort in the corner of the barracks out of footlockers and mattresses and then one would stand watch while the other guy slept. One night both of them fell alseep only to wake up being dragged out of their fort by their feet by about half a dozen drooling, raving lunatics bent on killing them both.

I believed this guy because when he told me the story, he sounded scared shitless. He was one motivated SOB after that.