Us soldiers going awol in canada

[ozanzac 0]

There was a girl in my graduating class last year that had wanted to join the Royal Australian Navy as an officer since Year 10. She worked like a machine for two years to get the scores needed to be accepted into the Australian Defence Force Academy, and this year was her induction year.

After all that effort (and boasting), she lasted less than one whole day.

While I don't know the exact reason why she dropped out, I have the feeling she had an enormous misconception as to what basic training required mentally. She probably would have made a really good officer, but never had the ability to cop s**t from any angle, thus basic training, would not have been her cup of tea.

I have a feeling that's what most new recruits who drop out go through. There is a huge misconception in this country that the armed forces is one big adventure where you get paid to enjoy your work, and get all the fringe benefits it brings. That might be the case after basic training, but during it, if your short sighted and unprepared for how basic training is, you will not last a day, like my acquaintance.

[denoir 0]

It happens.

In basic training at Fort Benning, my company had a 40% AWOL rate. And of the five guys that I reported to my first unit with, only two of us actually completed our entire enlistments.

That's a lot.

In my unit, (company size) at AMF1 we had one guy who comitted suicide and a couple that left because of physical injuries. Otherwise no people left. I suppose it also has something to do with that you had to first volunteer and then pass a number of tests to get into the Kustjägarna.

Anyway, the guy who skipped to Canada.. well, it's not a very nice thing to do, but would you really want to have a potential deserter fighting next to you?

[Badgerboy 0]

Yeah. It started out in reception battalion. We had maybe 200 people then. Maybe 10 attempted suicide, another 30 just ran away right there before we even started training. Once we got to our actual training units, we lost another 40 or so in the first month. My platoon, I think, was the only one that didn't have anyone go AWOL. I knew a bunch of guys that did it, though, from another platoon. I think most just weren't prepared for the mental aspects of basic. The whole thing was a lot more mental than physical - anyone can run two miles in 15 minutes eventually, but not everyone can stand being yelled at or treated like shit for 16-18 weeks, especially when your drill sergeants are playing a schizophrenic version of good cop/bad cop.

I remember the first time I was able to at the reception battalion, I called my family crying and told them I made a mistake. Reception battalion was the worst, as you've got nothing but time to think of everything and everybody you left behind in the real world. Once you actually get to your training unit, though, you're usually so busy you just kind of worry about the next 5 minutes and nothing else.

Errr, not to cast doubt on the training methods that are used, but don't people think that number is rather high? 10 attempted suicides? What the hell were they doing to the poor bastards?

[Gadger 0]

Isn't that the whole point of baisc though? To weed out the people who cannot handle the mental strain of combat, or atleast in someway prepare them for it?

[Balschoiw 0]

We had 4 AWOL´s at 4/232 over the last 10 years or so. Some people even fell better when in camp than at home

Education based on screaming and making someone down psychologically has no go in our unit. It´s bad if you raise bad emotions with soldiers you have to rely on later in missions. Cooperation and taking their opinions and concerns serious is a better trainer than screaming around playing bad boy.

The whole concept is very dubiouse. It should not be "Break his will" but show him where his strengh is and motivate him.

Anyone who says :"Doesn´t work. You have to be put them down to obey orders!" is wrong. Tasks can be hard. Trainings can be hard physically and mentally. There´s no need for playing games with people you have the responsibility for.

We´re not dogs. We´re humans.

In fact we had some guys with personality problems who thought they could release anger on recruits to show them who´s boss. Well we showed them who´s boss

Again a relation of trust and cooperation is much better than fighting wars within squads. Noone benefits of a full - mouthed leaders who won screaming-down competitions but of leaders aware of their rewsponsibillity they have for each member of their squad or platoon.

[Tovarish 0]

Quote[/b] ]Hinzman told the Fayetteville Observer by phone that the socialist structure of the military appealed to him - he liked the subsidized housing and groceries and, at the end of his service, the money for college.

....and at no point did he consider what HIS end of the bargain might be? Sorry, but no sympathy from me, he was just looking for a free ride.

[hellfish6 7]

It happens.

In basic training at Fort Benning, my company had a 40% AWOL rate. And of the five guys that I reported to my first unit with, only two of us actually completed our entire enlistments.

That's a lot.

In my unit, (company size) at AMF1 we had one guy who comitted suicide and a couple that left because of physical injuries. Otherwise no people left. I suppose it also has something to do with that you had to first volunteer and then pass a number of tests to get into the Kustjägarna.

Anyway, the guy who skipped to Canada.. well, it's not a very nice thing to do, but would you really want to have a potential deserter fighting next to you?

Well, technically all US Army soldiers are volunteers too. I think a lot of them either didn't know what they were doing and figured it was going to be a lot easier than they thought or they had various personal issues (family at home couldn't afford rent, he missed his girlfriend, missed his car, etc.).

I can't stress enough how horrible the reception battalion was, though. I was stuck there for two weeks while we waited for enough recruits to start a training cycle. The first two days were uniform and ID issue and medical checkups, but the remaining twelve days were absolutely empty, save for meals. You'd spend ALL day sitting on your bunk with nothing to read, surrounded by strangers, nowhere to go and nothing to do. It was as close to hell as I've ever been. I've said before that I'd gladly go back to basic and do it all over again, but not if it involved going back to the reception battalion. I can very easily understand why people would go nuts and try to escape from that pit of damnation.

Quote[/b] ]Hinzman told the Fayetteville Observer by phone that the socialist structure of the military appealed to him - he liked the subsidized housing and groceries and, at the end of his service, the money for college.

That's the first time I've ever heard the Army called a socialist structure.

Quote[/b] ]We had 4 AWOL´s at 4/232 over the last 10 years or so. Some people even fell better when in camp than at home  

I should clarify, of the five of us that reported to our first unit, the three who never completed their enlistments didn't go AWOL, but rather they all got permission to terminate their contract early. One had his handicapped sister raped and severely beaten and he had to take care of her. Another found a better paying job in civillian life (I'm not quite sure how he got out of the Army with that excuse, but I know he did it legally) and the other one transferred to the Air Force. In fact, outside of basic training I know of only one person who ever went AWOL and that was while we were in transit to the Middle East. We spent a couple days in Spain while the Air Force transport crew rested up, and we got a pass to go into Sevilla for 24 hours. One guy didn't come back and I imagine he is still in Spain, the lucky bastard.

Once you actually get to your combat units, nobody yells at you anymore unless you really deserve it. All of my sergeants and corporals were all, by and large, outstanding people. We'd always hang out together on and off duty and I still keep in contact with them.

Officers are a different story. I only ever had one platoon leader that I thought was worth anything, and he transferred to another unit a year after I arrived. He was a great guy and I learned a lot from him. The others were all mediocre at best, or totally incompetent at worst.

Well, everyone who joins the US Army is a volunteer too. I really just think it was that they were expecting it to be something easier, or that their minds were still at home (missing a girlfriend, etc.).

[denoir 0]

I can't stress enough how horrible the reception battalion was, though. I was stuck there for two weeks while we waited for enough recruits to start a training cycle. The first two days were uniform and ID issue and medical checkups, but the remaining twelve days were absolutely empty, save for meals. You'd spend ALL day sitting on your bunk with nothing to read, surrounded by strangers, nowhere to go and nothing to do. It was as close to hell as I've ever been. I've said before that I'd gladly go back to basic and do it all over again, but not if it involved going back to the reception battalion. I can very easily understand why people would go nuts and try to escape from that pit of damnation.

Hehee LOL.

I'm laughing because it was exactly the same way here. Not that long though. We had a regular two days and then two days more for those that were trying for the costal rangers. Basically it was ten minutes of tests, 4 hours of waiting in a hallway, a new test, more waiting and so on. The final day was only waiting, nothing to do.

I guess it's military standard.

No, the worst was the basic training. 24/7 of mental and physical abuse. We had a fairly high number of drop-offs due to physical injuries. Actually our CO was investigated later because he violated a number of rules in our training (like the minimum amount of sleep per week we were supposed to get etc). I can tell you quite a few not so "nice" stories. For instance, very early in the training one guy kept dropping the belt to his Ak-5. As a punishment the entire platoon had to bang our heads against a concrete wall until he got it right.

Another example is on an ex that two members of the company were toying around with 12.7 rounds. When the CO caught them they had to carry the 12.7 (.50) browning gun around the island we were on. It was perhaps a 5 km walk. When they got back, they were told to walk the round twice again carrying it. When they came back again they were ordered to walk it three times and so on. They walked like that all nigth and one of the guys was hospitalized in the morning becuase of acute dehydration...

As for mental fucks, there were really countless situations. One good example is one thing from our "march of hell", which is basically the final "graduation" test for costal rangers. After you complete it, you get your beret and the golden trident pin.

You are awake for three or more days, marching and performing various tasks. Digging trenches was one of them. We had dug a huge trench, working for hours. When it was done we were ordered to fill it back up. When that was done the CO did an inspection of our equipment and discovered that one of the soldiers was missing an aluminum fork that was part of the standard equipment. So, three in the morning after digging the trench and filling it up, we were ordered to dig it up again, to "find the fork". Of course, it was pitch dark and there was not a chance in hell we would find it. After we had dug up a huge hole again, our CO conveniently "found" the fork lying on the ground near our position. We received a shitload of yelling for "losing our equipment" we were ordered to fill up the hole again. I swear, had I not been completely exhausted, I would have gutted the bastard with my bayonet.

Later after I joined the combat divers, things got a lot better. The officers were much less sadistic and you were much more encouraged as an individual. The big difference there is that there was only 24 of us (two groups of 12) and we reported directly to the staff company. The selection tests for the combat divers was however the most horrible thing I've ever went through in my life. It's the closest thing to a traumatic experience I've had; I still really don't like remembering it.

[ralphwiggum 6]

The selection tests for the combat divers was however the most horrible thing I've ever went through in my life. It's the closest thing to a traumatic experience I've had; I still really don't like remembering it.

pluck pluck pluck pluck pluck pluck ......

but here's the difference. you already passed screening part for higher level(coastal rangers) and by that time, you were ready for it.

the people from Hellfish's example were totally unprepared for even the basic ones.

[hellfish6 7]

So in Sweden you get conscripted and then have the option of going right into the coastal rangers?

[denoir 0]

So in Sweden you get conscripted and then have the option of going right into the coastal rangers?

First you pass a conscription test where you are evaluated. Then, depending on your score, you are given various possible options. Then, depending on what you choose there can be more tests involved. In the case of the costal rangers, you have to pass a number of additional physical and psychical tests. About 20-30% of those that passed the first set of tests pass the second round.

When you start your service, you first have your basic training which is for a number of months (depending on in what unit you are). After the basic training "graduation" you can either do your regular service as a costal ranger, or you can apply to the combat divers. Basically everybody applies but only 12 people are selected out of several hundred (every six months).

Selections:

1. General test for all potential conscripts.

[selection, volunteer]

2. Costal ranger test

[selection]

---Basic training

3. The "beret test"

[selection]

--Now you're a costal ranger

4. Combat diver tests

[selection, volunteer]

---Combat diver training

5. Combat diver "final" test

[ (Selection) ]

---Now you're a combat diver

[ralphwiggum 6]

physical and psyhical tests

notice that those are same words, spelt differently

[Pipski 0]

He means psychic, you know, `what shape am I thinking of Prvt. Denoir?', that kind of thing. Psychic Water Troopers! The first and last line of defence ...

[denoir 0]

Is the correct expression "mental tests", or can you say "psychic tests"?   Not the "what shape am I thinking of?", but "do you like to torture small animals?" kind of test.

Sorry, but English is not my first language..

[hellfish6 7]

You're thinking psychological tests. Not had to confuse, especially as ever college student in the world in training to be a psychologist says that they're 'psych' majors.

[dm 9]

Edit: Damn, hellfish beat me to it

[hellfish6 7]

I'm a fast monkey.

[denoir 0]

You're thinking psychological tests. Not had to confuse, especially as ever college student in the world in training to be a psychologist says that they're 'psych' majors.

Ok, thanks

Yes I was meaning psychological tests. So "psychical" is the paranormal pseudoscientific type.. In Swedish psykiska = phsychological, while parapsykiska = psychical..

Crap, I can imagine countless times that I've used the wrong english form   Well, you learn something new every day  

[dm 9]

Crap, I can imagine countless times that I've used the wrong english form  

Hey, I AM English, and I use the wrong form all the time (who cares, as long as you can understand it)

Don't worry about it, at least your posts actually make sense, unlike some

[bn880 5]

Don't worry about it, at least your posts actually make sense, unlike some

You mean like "Sense is what you make of it."

Of course he gets no sympathy... well he may get some, probably mislead by everyone around him if not the recruitment dealers.

[ralphwiggum 6]

You're thinking psychological tests. Not had to confuse, especially as ever college student in the world in training to be a psychologist says that they're 'psych' majors.

Ok, thanks

Yes I was meaning psychological tests. So "psychical" is the paranormal pseudoscientific type.. In Swedish psykiska = phsychological, while parapsykiska = psychical..

Crap, I can imagine countless times that I've used the wrong english form   Well, you learn something new every day  

i knew what you were meaning, but just had to comment that both words had same number and type of characters, in different order. and it's 'coastal'.

i don't blame your English. much better than my German.