Iraqi sculptor honors us troops

[Wilco 944]

Quote[/b] ]This statue was made by an Iraqi artist named Kalat, who for years was forced by Saddam Hussein to make the many hundreds of bronze busts of Saddam that dotted Baghdad. This artist was so grateful that the Americans liberated his country, he melted 3 of the fallen Saddam heads and made a memorial statue dedicated to the American soldiers and their fallen comrades. Kalat worked on this night and day for several months. To the left of the kneeling soldier is a small Iraqi girl giving the soldier comfort as he mourns the loss of his comrade in arms. It is currently on display outside the palace that is now home to the 4th Infantry division. It will eventually be shipped and shown at the memorial museum in Fort Hood, Texas.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/arts/kalat.asp

http://www4.army.mil/ocpa/read.php?story_id_key=5563

Very nice.

[John_Q 0]

Very touching.

[SKULLS_Viper 0]

Very nicely done.

[canukausiuka 1]

That really is touching. I bet it means a whole lot to the men over there, especially. And I imagine it means a whole lot to Mr. Kalat, who is apparently quite good at it.

[ralphwiggum 6]

kudos to sculptor

[-33ker 0]

Looks very authentic, but the little girl is too pathetic...

I think the sculpture has to be as realistic as possible.

Just like the other sculptures for all the other major wars, the USA have fought in.

But that's of course only my own oppinion. I like the symbolic character of it. The statue doesn't show a victorious army, it shows all the victims and all soldiers who will die in the future in iraq.

[Placebo 31]

That's really beautiful

[Ironsight 1]

Very nice, it looks so realistic

[denoir 0]

Yes, he used to make statues of Saddam and now he is making statues of US soldiers. In short an ambitious opportunistic collaborator...

While I can understand his motives, I have more difficulty understanding the 'ooohs' and 'aahs' posted by people here. This is a cheap piece of propaganda and you're buying it without a moment's reflection.  

What a load of...

And why isn't this in the Iraq thread?

[ralphwiggum 6]

denoir, is statue of yours coming through yet? how doe sit look?

[brgnorway 0]

To me it almost looks camp! Very Jeff Koons!

However, I'm shure the sculptor didn't intend to but it realy looks like an ironic comment to ongoing situations. And he used to make Saddam statues before........hehe

Definately not touching - but hilariously camp - or kitch for those not in the knowing...

[quicksand 0]

I for one am disgusted by this statue.Iraqis right now are facing thiefs ,lack of water, electricity and jobs,women complaining of being raped by US soldiers every day and hundreads of reports of US soldiers shooting indiscriminately after they are attacked killing innocent civillians and the list goes on,do you really think this statue echoes the views of the common Iraqi?I think otherwise..

How about a statue for the thousands of innocent civillians that got killed and are still geting killed during this war?

[denoir 0]

To me it almost looks camp! Very Jeff Koons!

However, I'm shure the sculptor didn't intend to but it realy looks like an ironic comment to ongoing situations. And he used to make Saddam statues before........hehe

Definately not touching - but hilariously camp - or kitch for those not in the knowing...

It reminds me of one of the type of pictures that Jehova's witnesses commonly use... or one of the more standard (often nationalistic), "I like everything that is beautiful"-type of kitsch.

[brgnorway 0]

To me it almost looks camp! Very Jeff Koons!

However, I'm shure the sculptor didn't intend to but it realy looks like an ironic comment to ongoing situations. And he used to make Saddam statues before........hehe

Definately not touching - but hilariously camp - or kitch for those not in the knowing...

It reminds me of one of the type of pictures that Jehova's witnesses commonly use... or one of the more standard (often nationalistic), "I like everything that is beautiful"-type of kitch.

img]http://www.watchtowerinformationservice.org/icon2.jpg[/img]

LOL .... spot on!

btw - nice to see you Denoir. I got bored about all the time spent trying to figure out what I should conquer in Sweden. Came up with nothing hehe - so now I'm back for the time being  

Image tags.

[EiZei 0]

I think the little girl wearing a little dress comforming the soldier is bit too much..

[llauma 0]

It reminds me of one of the type of pictures that Jehova's witnesses commonly use... or one of the more standard (often nationalistic), "I like everything that is beautiful"-type of kitsch.

http://www.watchtowerinformationservice.org/icon2.jpg

Exactly my thought too..

Hehe, they often ask me if I wouldn't want to live like this.. An eternal damn picnic on a summer meadow with a lion and a rabbit?

I usually answer: No thanks, I'm fur and pollen allergic  

[Pipski 0]

So it's a little saccharine and not what you'd choose to have in your home. Who gives a flying f**k?

Quote[/b] ]Yes, he used to make statues of Saddam and now he is making statues of US soldiers. In short an ambitious opportunistic collaborator...

While I can understand his motives, I have more difficulty understanding the 'ooohs' and 'aahs' posted by people here. This is a cheap piece of propaganda and you're buying it without a moment's reflection.

So, on the basis that this guy, while living in a totalitarian dictatorship that, mark you, punished insubordination with torturous death, made some statues of a tyrant, you find him guilty of being some kind of a collaborator? And because, when relieved of the tyrant for whom he was making busts he chooses to express his gratitude to the people responsible for his liberation, you then peg him as a brown-nosing creep! Very understanding, nice, well done, you.

Quote[/b] ]I for one am disgusted by this statue.Iraqis right now are facing thiefs ,lack of water, electricity and jobs,women complaining of being raped by US soldiers every day and hundreads of reports of US soldiers shooting indiscriminately after they are attacked killing innocent civillians and the list goes on,do you really think this statue echoes the views of the common Iraqi?I think otherwise..

Er, the statue reflects the view of the Iraqi who made it. You may find it disgusting if you think that only the majority view should prevail. Do you?

There is nothing that p***es me off more than this reactionary bull****. It is possible to be both intelligent and left wing without having to sneer at and be cynical about every little thing that is done by everyone. The kind of mindset that would condemn a man on the other side of the world on the basis of making a sympathetic statue of a bereaved soldier - even one of a soldier from a country with which you don't necessarily always agree - is the kind of frightening, Stalinist, Khmer-rouge kind of Pavlovian orthodoxy common to sixth formers, self-important students and mass murderers the world over. Just because you might feel that everyone in Iraq should loathe Americans and they all don't, doesn't make them traitors.

[denoir 0]

So, on the basis that this guy, while living in a totalitarian dictatorship that, mark you, punished insubordination with torturous death, made some statues of a tyrant, you find him guilty of being some kind of a collaborator?  And because, when relieved of the tyrant for whom he was making busts he chooses to express his gratitude to the people responsible for his liberation, you then peg him as a brown-nosing creep!  Very understanding, nice, well done, you.

He made statues for Saddam and now he's making statues for the occupation power. No difference, just a new master.

What I find hilarious is how you think that he was FORCED to do statues for Saddam and now he's making statues of US soldiers out of GRATITUDE. Get some perspective man. Otherwise I've got a bridge to sell you.

[brgnorway 0]

You make me laugh  

Quote[/b] ]So it's a little saccharine and not what you'd choose to have in your home.  Who gives a flying f**k?  

This pathetic sculpture is not intended for use in ones home - it's meant for public display. In case you didn't know - most of the major artworks - both modern (like Sidney Opera House) and classical (like sixteenth chappel) were meant for public display - hence your naive and gullible comments about us "cynics" are silly.

Quote[/b] ]So, on the basis that this guy, while living in a totalitarian dictatorship that, mark you, punished insubordination with torturous death, made some statues of a tyrant, you find him guilty of being some kind of a collaborator?  And because, when relieved of the tyrant for whom he was making busts he chooses to express his gratitude to the people responsible for his liberation, you then peg him as a brown-nosing creep!  Very understanding, nice, well done, you.

Liberation from what - Saddam yes - has it led to any improvements for the general iraqi citisen? So why make this sentimental piece of crap? Any moral dilemmas about this must be that it's a short way from living under Saddams despotic rule and being freed by an occupation. Yeah, he certainly has some dubious integrity this artist.

Had this been in Norway after second world war he would have been thrown in prison! Oh no I forgot, he was probably forced to make Saddam's statues - gun to his head and all that lol.

Quote[/b] ]There is nothing that p***es me off more than this reactionary bull****.  It is possible to be both intelligent and left wing

Please tell me how I can be both reactionary and leftwing at the same time  

Beats me!

Quote[/b] ]The kind of mindset that would condemn a man on the other side of the world on the basis of making a sympathetic statue of a bereaved soldier - even one of a soldier from a country with which you don't necessarily always agree - is the kind of frightening, Stalinist, Khmer-rouge kind of Pavlovian orthodoxy common to sixth formers, self-important students and mass murderers the world over.

LOL - I've been called many things on this forum, but this is hilariously funny - and stupid.

Go weep your sentimental tears over the quisling-artist you love so much!

[Koolkid101 0]

I think I'd rather take my chances and have crime and violence and all those bad things than get tortured if I did anything Saddam didn't  which would really suck. But then again I'm an ignorant American who doesn't know squat.

[brgnorway 0]

I think I'd rather take my chances and have crime and violence and all those bad things than get tortured if I did anything Saddam didn't  which would really suck. But then again I'm an ignorant American who doesn't know squat.

I do understand what you mean, however, there is a greater possibility that you - your family and friends - run a risk of being mistreated, killed etc. now than during Saddams rule.

And you would not be free, because your nation is occupied, you barely have any food, you lack electricity, water and basic medical care. You are now out of work which is another difference from the Saddam era.

Make no mistake, Saddam was hated and I'm sure most iraqis are happy to see him go. However, when the basic daily life is even worse you can't ignore the antagonism the coalition of the willing experience right now can you?

[Pipski 0]

What I find hilarious is how you think that he was FORCED to do statues for Saddam and now he's making statues of US soldiers out of GRATITUDE. Get some perspective man. Otherwise I've got a bridge to sell you.

Quote[/b] ]This statue was made by an Iraqi artist named Kalat, who for years was forced by Saddam Hussein to make the many hundreds of bronze busts of Saddam that dotted Baghdad

Merely working with what was given. Prove otherwise. I seem to have a more balanced perspective than you right now.

Quote[/b] ]This pathetic sculpture is not intended for use in ones home

You really think I don't know that? It's a turn of phrase. `I wouldn't give it houseroom' / `I wouldn't have it in the house' means that it doesn't appeal to me personally, doesn't suit my tastes, is not what I would choose.

Quote[/b] ]hence your naive and gullible comments about us "cynics" are silly.

Well there's a staggering non sequitur.

Quote[/b] ]Oh no I forgot, he was probably forced to make Saddam's statues - gun to his head and all that lol.

Whereas you would quite happily defy a presidential order in Saddam's Iraq, despite the threat to yourself and your extended family? Well fab for you, you are clearly an unimpeachable figure of unquestionable moral rectitude. This guy is an ordinary mortal. But is anyone forcing him to make statues for the occupation forces? I doubt it.

Quote[/b] ]Please tell me how I can be both reactionary and leftwing at the same time

Beats me!

The right has no monopoly on being reactionary. One can be a left-wing reactionary just as one can be a right-wing revolutionary. `Reactionary' is not defined by politics. Look at the state of art in Stalinist Russia to find a good example of left-wing reactionary thinking. I'm talking about the knee-jerk antipathic reaction, based on no reported facts about this guy, that he must be some kind of stooge or lickspittle of Bush just because he can appreciate that soldiers have died.

Quote[/b] ]Go weep your sentimental tears over the quisling-artist you love so much!

Child! Quisling? For making a f***ing statue? Jesus, I would have thought a Norwegian of all people wouldn't bandy terms like that around so easily. I am not in the least sentimental about this situation or this person or his ugly statue. And I don't `love' him, I just don't find anything in this story to make me, or anyone else except possibly a Ba'athist, hate him.

[brgnorway 0]

Quote[/b] ]Merely working with what was given.  Prove otherwise.

First rule is to give references - next one is how credible they are. I for one doesn't think he got in the position purely coincidentaly.

You really think I don't know that?  It's a turn of phrase.  `I wouldn't give it houseroom' / `I wouldn't have it in the house' means that it doesn't appeal to me personally, doesn't suit my tastes, is not what I would choose.

No I don't think you know that, because if you did you wouldn't state this:

Quote[/b] ]So it's a little saccharine and not what you'd choose to have in your home.  Who gives a flying f**k?

Turn of a phrase or not - it's still on public display - hence the subject of interpretation. Basicly, for other people to give a fuck or not!

Quote[/b] ]Well fab for you, you are clearly an unimpeachable figure of unquestionable moral rectitude.  This guy is an ordinary mortal.  But is anyone forcing him to make statues for the occupation forces?  I doubt it.

You've got your focus wrong. Point isn't nessecarily what he had to do during the Saddam era - but his motivation for doing it again - praising the occupation force when his nations fate is in an even worse condition now.

Quote[/b] ]The right has no monopoly on being reactionary.  One can be a left-wing reactionary just as one can be a right-wing revolutionary.  `Reactionary' is not defined by politics.

Of course, I can't disagree with that. But there are inconsistensies with what you said solely because when you throw out words that are taken out of the usual contexts it looses it's meaning. Usually, reactionary is a word coupled not with left- or rightwing - but with conservative which is not the same as right wing. Today's right wing is much more focused on capitalism than liberalism. Although impresise designations like that have several core values in common it would be a gross mistake to say they are one and the same.

I wonder how you came up with the idea that I'm stalinistic and leftwing (as if those two categories are the same) . It hasn't probably struck your mind that even many conservatives in European nations are against what's happening now?

Quote[/b] ]Child!  Quisling?  For making a f***ing statue?  Jesus, I would have thought a Norwegian of all people wouldn't bandy terms like that around so easily.  I am not in the least sentimental about this situation or this person or his ugly statue.  And I don't `love' him, I just don't find anything in this story to make me, or anyone else except possibly a Ba'athist, hate him.[

Yes, let's praise the integrity of this so called artist. Perhaps Quisling was a too strong a word, let's call him "stripy" which in Norway used to be a person with one leg firmly planted in each "camp" .

Quote[/b] ]Who gives a flying f**k?

Besides, as far as I'm concerned participating in a forum implies dialouge not monolouge - so I guess somebody might give a flying fuck!

[Koolkid101 0]

Stop using all these weird words your giving me a headache!

[denoir 0]

What I find hilarious is how you think that he was FORCED to do statues for Saddam and now he's making statues of US soldiers out of GRATITUDE. Get some perspective man. Otherwise I've got a bridge to sell you.

Quote[/b] ]This statue was made by an Iraqi artist named Kalat, who for years was forced by Saddam Hussein to make the many hundreds of bronze busts of Saddam that dotted Baghdad

Merely working with what was given.  Prove otherwise.  I seem to have a more balanced perspective than you right now.  

The proof is in your quote. And your problem with it: the unability to critically evaluate source material.

First of all, it's from a US Army newsletter, so you might assume that they have some form of bias and that "working with what is given", doesn't quite cut it. And then when you read the actual text, you see that it is indeed the case.

Were all artists in Iraq forced to make portraits and statues of Saddam? Of course not. Nobody put a gun to his head and forced him to do it. He did it because there are clear benefits of pleasing the one in power. Now when Saddam is gone, it is instead in his interest to please the new boss. He is doing exactly the same thing for his new masters as he did for his old.

Forced to make statues for Saddam? Ha! I wonder how many heads he stepped on to have the privilege to be chosen to make statues for Saddam. I can imagine quite a few other opportunists or loyal Baath party members that would have desired such a position.

So what's the big deal? None at all. He's just an opportunist. In this thread however people have expressed both their admiration for the sculptor and the quality of his art while the sculptor is an ambitious opportunist and his art is pathetic tacky kitch. It was so under Saddam and is so now.

Overall, not something worth taking notice of and much less praising.