Us presidential election 2004

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

You dont get fined for calling homosexuality a sin. Full stop

Iraq is not better off at the moment than with Saddam in power. Saddam had a terrible record, no doubt. But he didnt inflict 100.000 casualties per year. The country was relatively stable and a better transition-strategy would have been wise. To create a king (Saddam) without a crown and without power would have been the best way to pull him from the stage.

Just because he was a terrible dictator doesnt mean he should get the punishment he deserves. He should get the best punishment that targets him and not the people that already suffered under him.

Iraq is currently a country bombed back to stone age. There are shortages everywhere and the lack of stability is a determining factor Iraq to recover.

Life continues because people need to live. You see traders on the roads, you see shops being opened because food needs to be distributed and families need to be fed. But that was also the case in Berlin. But dont be so ignorant to call it "ordinary life".

Iraq is better of without Saddam? If iraq would be just as stable as it was under Saddam then I would praise Bush and his proactive pragmatic thinking. But the logic should have told him before that this is not possible. Even wihtout the insurgents Iraq will not become a peaceful democratic state. Iraq will one day fall apart into cultural groups each defending its own rights and teritories. Fundamentalism will return and religion will play a greater role than democracy. Maybe in the short run we will see an election and whatsoever, but in the long run it will become a regilious secular state attracting a sorts of fundementalistic ideas.

[Monkey Lib Front 10]

The result of this is that in 2000, the election was close, it widened here, and the gap is only going to get wider as the Democrats continue to pervert and subvert foundations of morals.

No the Republicans "continue to pervert and subvert foundations of morals." By banning Gay Marriage and mosy possible Civil Unions by creating a second Class citizenship.

Quote[/b] ]Here's the real economic issue. Conservatives view humans and families as assets, Liberals view them as liabilities.

LOL thats why they introduced the PATRIOT act so they can view there assets any time they want including when they talk to there lawyer.

Quote[/b] ]Conservatives take care of the environment and encourage it's health because it helps us and it's our obligation. Liberals fence it off and chase out the people, leaving nature to rot.

Yes Bush choped down forest because it was a potential fire hazard , also wanting to open up the Alaskan National Reserve for oil exploration, yes They really want to take care of the environment, 0r even the US being the worlds biggets polluter but not entering into treaties to reduce that, If you leave nature alone how could it rot? do you know nothing of how nature works?

Quote[/b] ]Conservatives expect that you will be responsible for your self, and work to make provisions so you can take care of yourself. Liberals believe that you're not adequately capable of taking care of yourself, therefore you should more or less be a ward of the state on welfare.

So buch party Bullshit, Liberals beileve that you should not be exploited and so are more inclined to look out for the individuals rights, unlike Republicans who only really care about the top 1% and where there next campaign contribution comes from.

Quote[/b] ]Conservatives believe that opportunity and accountibility also extend into healthcare, in having the oppotunity to select providers eager to serve you and your business. While the so-called Diversity Experts among the liberals claim that people are all different, in reality they attempt to impose uniform generic medicine.

Hmm rightso basically healthcare for those who can afford it right? Its a privalige not a right?

Quote[/b] ]Conservatives also hold the moral principal of self-determination.  Everyone is entitled to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, along with the oppotunity to vote against that or abstain from voting. Liberals use the ruse of prior ignorance or abuse to justify their continuing sociatal enslaving and manipulation.

If people have the right of self determination, then why do you advocate the creation of second class citizens and denying the right to choose.

Quote[/b] ]Conservatives believe that it is all humanity's imperative to better ourselves and each other. As Liberals view themselves as already enlightened, those who aren't along for the ride are inferior and thus are to be managed when willing, and disciplined when not.

Pure rhetoric most liberals try and better oneself, there is a difference between being enlightened and being educated enough to scratch deeper under the surface of party rhetoric and spin.

Quote[/b] ]There is a big difference in this rising young conservative generation. The hippies earlier rejected law and order and discipline. Today the 'rebels' are rejecting the self-aggrandizment of the self-certified intellectual establishment and questioning the validity and bias of their arguements. The difference is that we're not resisting lawlessness, we're looking for law and order, and we're saying the 2 and 2 you're giving us is not making 5 like you said it would. And when we ask why shouldn't it be 4, you get all huffy because 'how dare the students question the teacher'.

Bollocks, Republicans,Conservativies,NeoCons whatever you want to call them, feel rules are there to keep order and if you break them for any reason whatsoever even if the rules are BS your stigmatise as a lefty commie or as they say now a terrorists, the right scares you into following the rules.

Quote[/b] ]Well I can and do, and things are looking good for a good long time to come.

Yea how is the Decline in Jobs, going from a surplus to a 500 Billion dollar deficit and the Trillion dollar National Debt going?

Quote[/b] ]And what about the human shield / volunteer hostages that went to gaurd the AAA batteries dug into school playgrounds? What about their reports that they were moved to obvious military installations?

never happened IIRC the groups wanted to go to schools but saddham wanted them by Strategic locations so they never went

Quote[/b] ]When the military has their hands tied by those that wish to cut off those hands, they are restricted from competently fulfilling their mission, resulting in unneccessary casulties on all sides. If you go running out in traffic, who's fault is it if you turn into a road muffin? Not the driver's.

Who has there hands tied? If your talking about the President and so forth i agree when they didn't give them enough troops to do the job correctly then i guess bush is to blame.

Quote[/b] ]Where did the civilian casulties in Kuwait come from? If that war was about oil as folks claimed, then why is this war about oil if Iraq has little to no oil that they had to invade Kuwait over it?

Iraq has plenty of oil, they invaded Kuwait because they beleived for many years that Kuwait was part of Iraq, maybe the extra oil was helpful, but iraq is hardly running dry any time soon.

Quote[/b] ]What about the Scuds in Israel? Were the Israelis as a nation and people to be held responsible for American defense of Kuweit? Were the Israelis to be punished for defending the cause of nuclear non-proliferation by bombing Tuweitha?

Kuwait*

The scuds in Israel was to try and destabilize the arab coalition in Desert Storm/Shield, To be honest i don't get you point? was american responsible for defending Kuwait? I guess they that is up to the kuwaiti Government.

Quote[/b] ]How many civilian casulties as opposed to military - if you divide the two - would have been lost had Saddam put a hotbox in one of those scuds?

If we are talking Dirty bomb style war head then i'm guessing non really, the US Gov't and other Nuclear study groups found that Dirty bomb style weapons are highly ineffective.

But if we are talking Nuclear Warefeads i doubt Saddham would ahve used the against Isreal, remember they do have Nuclear Missiles.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

Well, another 4 years of madness, thanks very much American voters

Who's moving to Canada then?

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

No thanks, just settled in Berlin!

[ralphwiggum 6]

.

http://www.nbc4.tv/news/3886138/detail.html

Quote[/b] ]CORAL SPRINGS, Fla. -- A 67-year-old man suffered a fatal heart attack shortly after casting his ballot in Coral Springs Tuesday.

Police Capt. Jeff Maslan said George Stanley was sitting on a chair waiting for his wife to finish voting when he fell to the floor. Stanley was taken to a hospital, where he was pronounced dead.

Stanley's wife, Judy Stanley, said her husband was undecided as they went to the polls. She says no one will ever know how he voted.

Stanley's son-in-law said Stanley was a West Point graduate who served as an Army captain in the 1960s.

[joltan 0]

Mark Fiore is quick as usual: And the winner is...

[SpongeBob 0]

[Acecombat 0]

Congrats Bush and to your supporters and GOOD LUCK.....

EDIT that ones been posted already but look at this one:

Campaign of Fear

[Bernadotte 0]

Published August 28, 2003 by the Cleveland Plain Dealer:

Quote[/b] ]The head of a company vying to sell voting machines in Ohio told Republicans in a recent fund-raising letter that he is "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year."

I guess he kept his promise.  His Diebold electronic voting machines that produce no paper trail were used in many areas of Ohio.

Ohio's exit polls had Kerry winning by a couple percentage points. I hope someone releases information showing that the exit polls were equally wrong in areas without the electronic machines. That would certainly help put the matter to rest.

Edit: link

[m21man 0]

Published August 28, 2003 by the Cleveland Plain Dealer:

Quote[/b] ]The head of a company vying to sell voting machines in Ohio told Republicans in a recent fund-raising letter that he is "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year."

I guess he kept his promise.  His Diebold electronic voting machines that produce no paper trail were used in many areas of Ohio.

Edit: link

I see that we're off again to Konspiracy Korner...

Quote[/b] ]Ohio's exit polls had Kerry winning by a couple percentage points.

And those exit polls heavily favored women and/or urban voters.

[Akira 0]

Well, another 4 years of madness, thanks very much American voters

Who's moving to Canada then?

Japan for me. Unless Europe has any good English teaching jobs.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]I guess he kept his promise. His Diebold electronic voting machines that produce no paper trail were used in many areas of Ohio.

Ohio's exit polls had Kerry winning by a couple percentage points. I hope someone releases information showing that the exit polls were equally wrong in areas without the electronic machines. That would certainly help put the matter to rest.

Edit: link

Concede already. I claimed victory!!! No hard feelings...

@RalphWiggum: I still waiting for the word sorry...

Quote[/b] ]Well, another 4 years of madness, thanks very much American voters

Who's moving to Canada then?

Your welcome..

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Quote[/b] ]I claimed victory!!!

I thought you are not republican!

[Acecombat 0]

Quote[/b] ]I claimed victory!!!

I thought you are not republican!

He doesnt know who he is at this point ...

[Placebo 29]

Well the election is now over, I can't really see much point in a thread about the election continuing, so unless something significant happens this thread will be closed at 9am CET tomorrow (just under 17 hours time)

[Akira 0]

It alright if we do like someone suggested and start a "US Policy" or maybe just a "Bush 2nd Term" thread?

[Cpt. Bazikian-5thSFG- 0]

Is it ok if I start a US republican thread, so as I can see what really other republicans think rather than having a Liberal down our throats all the time?

[Placebo 29]

No I don't think either suggestion is necessary, best solution I can see is renaming European Politics to International Politics and making that a thread for all?

[denoir 0]

The problem with that is that different people are interested in the subjects. So you have to wade through a lot of posts to get to the ones that are interesting..

Personally, I like Akira's suggestion - simply a new generic US politics thread.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

The problem with that is that different people are interested in the subjects. So you have to wade through a lot of posts to get to the ones that are interesting..

Personally, I like Akira's suggestion - simply a new generic US politics thread.

Totally agree. I am usually surfing our forum during work and I hardly have the time to read all comments anyway. So if I would have to screen through several pages before finding an interesting comment .... well then I guess I would loose my job soon.

[Cpt. Bazikian-5thSFG- 0]

I think that these forums are biased and that the moderators themselves are biased..... You let people on these forums bash other people just becasue your opinions are different. You intimidate people from posting on these forums by publicly ganging up and thrashing them.

[Monkey Lib Front 10]

I say just rename this thread US politics thread, i mean the US election process is part of that.

Have EU amd US ones seperate tbh, i'm sure certain issues will cross over but they will be few.

[ralphwiggum 6]

@ Nov. 04 2004,16:41)]I think that these forums are biased and that the moderators themselves are biased..... You let people on these forums bash other people just becasue your opinions are different. You intimidate people from posting on these forums by publicly ganging up and thrashing them.

you got problems about mods, then talk to placebo. don't go off topic.

we have right wingers bashing others to.just read through this thread.

[denoir 0]

@ Nov. 04 2004,16:41)]You let people on these forums bash other people just becasue your opinions are different. You intimidate people from posting on these forums by publicly ganging up and thrashing them.

There are plenty of right-wing message boards out there, if you wish to avoid any differing opinions. There you can praise Bush as much as you want and you won't get challenged.

This however is an international forum and reflects the views from people from around the world. If you havn't noticed, Bush is very much disliked, even hated around the world - and it's a reflection of that sentiment that you see here.

If you don't like it, then you should have elected a better candidate.

[Cpt. Bazikian-5thSFG- 0]

thats because there is a general concensus on these forums that we cannot agree to disagree....