Us presidential election 2004

[Pathy 0]

Thats what i mean...its like, if you lose a presidential election, your career in politics is over.....but theres no reason why he shouldnt stand again

[Cpt. Bazikian-5thSFG- 0]

yeah, but seriously how old is Kerry now? Maybe in 4 years he'd have changed his mind about running for president.......Maybe Edwards will run again.

[Acecombat 0]

Quote[/b] ]Heard not counted were around 300.000, for a Bush advance of 130.000

Are you sure , man if thats true i have my fingers crossed.My figures were from BBC.

Btw thank god Bush doesnt have a son to run later on as president otherwise .....

[Cpt. Bazikian-5thSFG- 0]

Quote[/b] ]Heard not counted were around 300.000, for a Bush advance of 130.000

Are you sure , man if thats true i have my fingers crossed.My figures were from BBC.

Btw thank god Bush doesnt have a son to run later on as president otherwise .....

no, but he has 2 daughters.... Perhaps one of them will run in about 20 years and become the first female president in the history of the US?

[EiZei 0]

Quote[/b] ]Heard not counted were around 300.000, for a Bush advance of 130.000

Are you sure , man if thats true i have my fingers crossed.My figures were from BBC.

Btw thank god Bush doesnt have a son to run later on as president otherwise .....

Jeb Bush anyone?

[whisperFFW06 0]

Quote[/b] ]Heard not counted were around 300.000, for a Bush advance of 130.000

Are you sure    , man if thats true i have my fingers crossed.My figures were from BBC.

Can't be, numbers are heavily dependant on who throw them, and I'm in France, so... ;)

[kerosene 0]

@ Nov. 03 2004,12:53)]then why do you allow such people as Saddam and the N. Korean leader to rise into power? Obviously you haven't put such consern in the planet because we would all be happy with each other instead of fighting over a stupid election that we already knew who was going to win. So I guess US foreign relations will have to loose more money from the US becasue we stoped giving them a monetary incentive when they decided to flee from the war.

Who exactly is you? And when did "they" allow Kim Jong Il and Saddam Hussein to rise to power. The U.N led by the U.S fought against North Korea and would have won if China didnt kick their ass all the way back to the south and Saddam Hussein was an ally of the west until the 91 Gulf war. You may have heard something about a war they had with Iran, he kept communists and islamic fundamentalists down.

Are you American? Because if you are, your English is terrible, if not its pretty good.

[Cpt. Bazikian-5thSFG- 0]

i'm Armenian American

[denoir 0]

Thats what i mean...its like, if you lose a presidential election, your career in politics is over

Well, he's still a senator....

I really feel bad for him and the ones involved in his campaign. Imagine how much time and energy they put into this... resulting in nothing.

In Europe judging from various reports people are disappointed but at the same time there is a sense of relief. Bush getting re-elected simplifies a lot of things. A Kerry presidency would have complicated issues such as Iraq. While it is unlikely that Kerry could have significantly changed things, Europe would be obliged to cooperate more with a friendly US administration - even where it's not in Europe's interest to do so. With Bush we know where we are and have no obligation of being nice.

A less nice consequence is that we'll now probably see the contempt directed at just the president to widen to include the American people. Before one could say that in 2000 people didn't know what Bush was going to do and that in fact Gore got the popular vote. Not that excuse does not exist.

I can imagine that a similar process is going on in countries that oppose America to begin with. The American people have shown that they are firmly behind Bush's policies and this ought to simplify things for people that are having second thoughts about attacking American civilians.

[Blake 0]

What a farce. Election is over and now we're supposed to wait 2 weeks for the results to confirm.

Quote[/b] ]i'm Armenian American

So that makes you a Caucasian male

[Blake 0]

Quote[/b] ]A less nice consequence is that we'll now probably see the contempt directed at just the president to widen to include the American people. Before one could say that in 2000 people didn't know what Bush was going to do and that in fact Gore got the popular vote. Not that excuse does not exist.

If there's going to be any big terrorist attack in the US in the next term, Bush's position will be questionable at best. Can't imagine rallying behind him after that like they did after 9/11.

[Acecombat 0]

Quote[/b] ]Heard not counted were around 300.000, for a Bush advance of 130.000

Are you sure    , man if thats true i have my fingers crossed.My figures were from BBC.

Btw thank god Bush doesnt have a son to run later on as president otherwise .....  

Jeb Bush anyone?

We have Hilary Clinton for that dont we

[EiZei 0]

I really feel bad for him and the ones involved in his campaign. Imagine how much time and energy they put into this... resulting in nothing.

Well, couple of years back everyone thought that Bush was going to steamroll just about anyone who would face him.

[kerosene 0]

Thats what i mean...its like, if you lose a presidential election, your career in politics is over

Lol, their kinda like boxers then.

The elections still more or less 50/50 either way, so it really dosent tell you a massive amount about U.S support for Bush, given that he just got barely got in last time round and that was pre 9/11 so in that respect I guess the results not telling you a great deal about what the people think, that the last election didnt already.

As far as succsessors go..

Theres Jeb Bush and George Prescott Bush (Americas first latino president could be a Bush!)

Well at least Jenna Bush is pretty hot, and a pothead if you believe the rumors, so thats 2 ticks in the plus column.

[shrike 0]

What a farce indeed. How could anybody with a sane mind reelect Bush and his cronies after all that happened...

I feel sorry for all the Americans hoping for a change, especially for those who were able to challenge their opinion and admit to themselves they might have been wrong in the past.

And I pity those who chose to follow a liar, a criminal,a demagogue, a fundamentalist who claims to speak on behalf of god while the only real "gods" he and his high priests believe in are power and wealth, promoting medieval ideals of revenge and retribution.

My apologies to all clear thinking Americans here, but it seems your country is uneducated, historically. I guess you need an all out war on your own soil first to make you understand that war is...uhm...different if you're on the receiving end of it.

Maybe that'll stop you from eagerly dishing out to "towelheads" or "gooks" in the future under the pretense of liberation and Democracy For Everyone <span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'></span>

Aynhow I hope for the best and wish everybody well, maybe even TBA is able to learn from their mistakes and to actually do something helpful in their 2nd term.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Quote[/b] ]A less nice consequence is that we'll now probably see the contempt directed at just the president to widen to include the American people. Before one could say that in 2000 people didn't know what Bush was going to do and that in fact Gore got the popular vote. Not that excuse does not exist.

If there's going to be any big terrorist attack in the US in the next term, Bush's position will be questionable at best. Can't imagine rallying behind him after that like they did after 9/11.

No, the opposite would happen, that would only boost his popularity.

[denoir 0]

Xawery posted this in the EU politics thread a while ago. I think it's pretty relevant here as well:

Why Europe Needs — And Wants — Bush to Win

Quote[/b] ]Why Europe Needs — And Wants — Bush to Win

By Richard Phillips | Wednesday, October 13, 2004

The conventional wisdom has it that President Bush’s first term in office has been truly bad for Europe. Whether it is the rift over Iraq or almost any other major policy issue, we are told that they have been to the detriment of Europe. But as Richard Phillips argues, the Bush Administration has not only helped bring Germany and France closer together — it has also unwittingly elevated Europe’s prestige throughout the world.

Based on recent public opinion polls, Europe has identified its enemy — and it is the United States of America under President George W. Bush.

Something in common

Starting with the Kyoto Accords, ending with the Iraq War — and including every single multilateral initiative in between — the United States has been on the wrong side of the popular European discussion.

And today, the single most unifying influence within the European Union is anti-Bushism. In fact, such is the unifying influence of George Bush that he may well go down in history as the father of this thing we call Europe.

It is almost axiomatic that Europeans can’t agree on anything. Put a German and a Frenchman together and you’ll get three, perhaps as many as five, different opinions. But mention the word Bush and it is all smiles, total agreement — and complete solidarity.

This lesson is not lost on the likes of Jacques Chirac and Gerhard Schröder. The French and German leaders are tireless missionaries in the cause of a unified Europe. They promote their respective countries’ interests vigorously, as they should. But they also promote the interests of the unified Europe they lead, without hesitation — and often without scruples.

Breaking American hegemony

And at this moment, they recognize that they are winning the biggest geopolitical battle Europe has engaged in since the end of World War II — namely, to break the yoke of American global hegemony.

President George W. Bush is their unwitting accomplice in this endeavor. His staunch unilateralism and macho disregard for Europe’s Catholic sensibilities are like mitzvahs to Europe’s true leaders.

Europe leading

As America under Bush becomes the bęte noire of world politics, Europe moves stealthily to fill the void. Europe provides a warm, earthy and sympathetic shoulder for the world’s disenfranchised to cry on.

And the American president drives friend and foe alike into Europe’s waiting arms. Just look at recent political developments.

In spite of specious claims on the part of the Bush Administration to the contrary, Libya coming clean on its various WMD programs was a European, not an American, success story. It was Europe that tirelessly promoted détente with Colonel Quadafi over the course of the past five years. It was Europe that negotiated the terms of his surrender. It was Europe that got him to disarm.

And it will be Europe that gets the spoils, the first crack at the oil contracts and the first crack at open trade. Europe continues to politely make its inroads in Libya, formally lifting all remaining sanctions on the African nation.

Diplomacy over egoism

In Iran, American sanctions remain in place, even as Iran enjoys an open market with Europe. European diplomats work in subtle — many Americans might say slippery — ways to get the Mullahs to hold back progress on their nuclear ambitions.

Europeans are engaging Iran in a polite give-and-take that is sensitive to Iranian sovereignty and the threats posed to it by its nuclear neighbors, Israel and Pakistan. As a consequence, Iran views Europe as a potential partner in a new world order, even as they reject America as an ‘evil empire.’

Mideast peace process

In Israel and the West Bank, where the United States looks the other way as the Sharon government expands settlements, builds walls and backtracks on its commitment to a Palestinian state, Europe wrings its hands, decrying the injustice of it all.

In the process, Europe is perceived by the world’s population as principled and morally correct. Similar situations exist throughout the world. In Iraq, where foreign satellite television shows a cruel and uncaring occupation, Europe sends it condolences, moderating public opinion toward the EU throughout the Arab world.

A global shoulder to cry on

In dealing with North Korea, where America makes demand upon demand to do it America’s way — and loses ground every step of the way — Europe presents a reticent and ambiguous posture, disassociating itself with a potentially ugly confrontation. After all, North Korea poses no strategic threat to Europe.

In every country on the face of the earth, where public opinion polls show that anti-Americanism is greater now than ever before because of intransigent unilateralism on the part of the Bush Administration, Europe just moves forward, promoting its values and its trade with tireless efficiency.

Promoting interests diplomatically

Spain is expanding its influence throughout Latin America, while Germany promotes its commercial interests in East and Central Asia and France reestablishes its historic prominence as a diplomatic force throughout the Middle East, Africa and much of the rest of world.

All the while, America blusters, fumes and cites a Baptist morality that is often indecipherable outside America’s ‘red’ states — those that predominantly vote for George W. Bush.

There are better ways to handle Europe, to contend effectively with Europe’s inexorable march toward superpower status. Just look at how President Putin handled the Kyoto Accords. Europe required Russian ratification of the Accords for them to go into effect. Like President Bush, President Putin said, “Nyet!†But then he continued to talk and negotiate. Suddenly, President Putin turned around and said “Da!†to Kyoto.

Unwilling to negotiate

Why? Because in the bargain he won European support for Russia’s entry into the World Trade Organization, an important boost to Russia’s economy and status in the world of trade. President Bush could have renegotiated certain terms of the agreement to soften them in America’s interests.

He could have gotten important concessions in areas unrelated to the environment. And in the process, he could have made the whole thing work to the advantage of the global environment and the United States. But I guess in Texas, they don’t think that way.

Global disapproval

George W. Bush is doing America a great disservice. Appealing to ugly jingoistic sentiment coming from the far right, he has created a groundswell of global discontent. And things could get much, much worse for the United States.

It was only several months ago that OPEC, recognizing the weakness of the dollar versus the Euro, made a pass at trying to settle oil in the European currency rather than the greenback, which has been the only settlement currency for oil since the end of the Second World War.

This led the United States to sharply rebuke Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and other oil producing countries. The Bush Administration got its way on this one.

John Kerry in the White House

But the Bush Administration’s weak dollar policy also contributed to a sharp rise in the dollar-denominated price of oil, a rise that was largely offset for Europe by the concurrent strength of the euro. Even in losing, the Europeans had beaten George Bush again on the world stage.

A reasonable and rational United States is a great challenge to Europe. And so too is John Kerry. John Kerry will make it more difficult for Europeans to take advantage of America, to abuse its great principles and to get the better of the United States through trade and finance.

A new course

Mr. Kerry will moderate America’s ugly face and help cast Europe in its true morally ambiguous light. And this will have negative implications for Europe, because through the restoration of American good will and bonhomie, America will fracture Europe’s attempt to put on a unified face.

Unlike President Bush, he will show the world that true leadership incorporates both principle and pragmatism.

But perhaps the greatest danger in a second Bush term is that it will transpose anti-American sentiment, which is currently centered on a Bush Administration widely regarded as an aberration, directly onto the American people.

A Bush victory will be regarded as a popular endorsement of U.S. policy over the past four years. Simply, anti-Bushism will morph into true anti-Americanism — and our adversaries and enemies throughout the world, Europe in particular, will gather strength and become even more emboldened.

Making things worse

Some Americans might suggest that honest participation in the family of nations would be pandering to foreign powers. But in fact, it is merely recognition of realities as they exist around the world in 2004.

George W. Bush may tap into American patriotic sentiment to win U.S. public opinion and create an Alamo stand.

But his approach gives aid and comfort to America’s only adversary for world political leadership, undermines America’s global economic dominance and — at the end of the day — makes life a whole lot tougher for every American.

My own opinions are this:

Privately: I see this as a defeat. I would have loved Bush to lose - it would have scored high on a feel-good scale.

As a European: I think it is in the short term good that Bush won. He has actually done more to unite Europe than our own politicians have been able to. He has by ruining the US economy boosted ours. While it is true that the European governments were split on Iraq, the people of Europe never were - they were firmly against and the politicians get that now. Bush is the perfect villan for Europe - a warmonging religious fundamentalist. It couldn't get better! In the long term, I think however that the interests of America and Europe conincide and that we'll have to kiss and make up some time in the future. Not just yet though.

As a human being: Bush bad. Besides the nasty tendency of starting wars and making the world an unsafer place, he is bad for the environment (anti-Kyoto), bad for international unity (anti-UN, anti-ICC) and to top it all off he wants to build mini-nukes and actually use them. While I don't think America has the military capacity of invading more countries, the other points are bad enough.

(As for America, I'm convinced that Bush is a terrible choice, both from social and economic point of views. The dollar is weak that you can almost use it as toilet paper. His social agendas make puritans look liberal - it's a big step back from the civilized world for America.)

[llauma 0]

It's a sad day for USA and as Denoir pointed out a pretty good day for Europe but you can't be happy when so many civilians are suffereing in Iraq etc. because of the Bush administration.

Now the majority of the US citizens have showed that they approve and support their policy. This means that they are no longer innocent bystanders. In my eyes a terrorist strike against the USA is no different than a airstrike against a 'terrorist' hideout in some Iraqi city where civilians are being considered colateral damage.

I don't approve any of these attack but if you support one side of them you can't condemn the other.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]You had a postcount bet with billybob? my god ...

BREAKING NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!

BILLYBOB2002 CLAIMS VICTORY OVER BERNADOTTE!!!!!

I would like to thank the people who voted for Bush in 2004 to help me defeat Bernadotte by 2%-3%. I would like to thank the mods for allowing the bet. Also, I enjoyed this thread except for the personal crap. Lastly, I would like to shake Bern. hand and I hope this bet does not make are relationship worse.

Bush won the popular vote and beat ole Reagan record of most votes.

On a small note...

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/10/24/120810.shtml

Quote[/b] ]

Sunday, Oct. 24, 2004 12:05 a.m. EDT

Dems Register al-Qaida Terrorists in Ohio Vote Drive

In a bid to get out the vote for John Kerry, Democrat activist groups in Ohio have registered at least two known terrorists involved in a plot to blow up a shopping center.

Nuradin Abdi, a Somali immigrant and admitted al-Qaida member who was indicted earlier this year as part of a conspiracy to blow up the Columbus Mall, was registered to vote by the left-wing group ACORN, according to the Columbus Dispatch and the Ohio News Now TV Network.

[maximilien 0]

Billybob2002 you can stick it on the Mad Cow's Steakhouse forum

Well, i understand and share the Denoir's point of view....

[Tovarish 0]

The final results are in, and the winner is.....

In other news.....

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Billybob2002 you can stick it on the Mad Cow's Steakhouse  forum    

Well,  i understand and share the Denoir's point of view....

I post there!!!

[Akira 0]

Kerry just conceded.

Thats that.

[Tovarish 0]

yep, for real now:

Kerry concedes

4 more wars!

[billybob2002 0]

And the funny thing is that he (Bush) won the popular vote...