Us presidential election 2004

[Cpt. Bazikian-5thSFG- 0]

I will tell you how Bush has made this country more safe, first of all in relation toward Iraq. What Bush did in Iraq was take Saddam out of power and while US troops were occupying the nation terrorist and insurgent forces attacked those US troops through any means possible. Now the way I see it is that by creating such an environment in Iraq, the US is fighting the terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan rather than fighting them on US soil through the use of the FBI and criminal investigations. Which would take much more time and would be very difficult to apprehend the terrorists. And once apprehended they could be set free, through the lack of evedence and loopholes with-in the US judicial system. But all of that has been avoided by a formal declaration of war and the terrorists being listed as combatants.

[Pathy 0]

You know its possible to have good security without the rest of the world hating you.....

You wouldnt of said a few days after 9/11 would you?

ok security, not stepped up in anyway, not invaded anyone. Yet two planes with hijackers manage to fly in the Twin Towers.

Actually i would have said that. I wouldnt have said "lets invade iraq, because they are obviously the people behind this" like George Bush did, and i wouldnt have said that making everyone hate you just so you can imagine that youve somehow improved your security was a good idea.

You dont get it do you. Explain to me, please, how invading Iraq has improved US security.

Oh and improving your countrys intelligence assests and internal defences doesnt make anyone hate you more, but its more effective at protecting your country than invading another country with no actual links to 9/11.

After 9/11, surely you must of known security has been tightened or you living in a box?

You got sky marshals in case of a repeat of 9/11, where were they before.

He said "lets invade afghanistan" not Iraq.

Oh dear Bordoy....

Lets go through this in simple terms especially for you.

1) Sky marshalls and the like fall under internal security...those are the measures i previously said that you can take without making the rest of the world hating you. Those are the measures that were all that was needed. Invading Iraq and making half the muslim world hate the US was NOT needed.

2) He insisted to his NSA that Iraq must be behind it. His NSA told him there were no links and was told "find some". And guess what. In 2003 we invade Iraq on the premise that Saddam has WMD and may be proliferating them to A-Q.

However, due to the fact that this was BS, there has been no improvement to American security resulting from the invasion of Iraq. All youve done is make A-Q get more support.

Baz...woohhooo, you did some stuff with your life...but your self confessed attitude (if they arent american, fuck em) still is the exact type of thing that causes people to hate America and thus increases the threats to your country.

[Akira 0]

It's all so so sad...

Oh well. Presumably this is the last night for this discussion. Or possible the start of a very long few months of legal BS. In any case....its all so sad....

Quote[/b] ]

Guam gets a vote? I guess I really don't have any idea what Guam or Puerto Rico's relation to the US is....

Guam has been a protectorate and a territory of the US since before WW2. Puerto Rico has been a territory ("commonwealth")of the US since the Spanish American war, and they have been US citizens since 1917. They have taken three votes to remain a commonwealth instead of gaining statehood.

Quote[/b] ]Yeah, I don't really like the two-party system either... I won't say much more on that. But I have heard some good arguments for the electoral college system, and when you look at it, there have only been a few times when a candidate has won the election, but his oppenent had more votes. When you look at it that way, the benefits might outweigh the problems of the EC.

Actually I would say that it is those times that show the need to abolish the electoral system. A system that gets it "usually right" is not a good system when voting in a government. The technology is available to make it a straight popular vote, and I say we use it. It would certianly eliminate electoral debacles like 2000.

[Pathy 0]

@ Nov. 02 2004,21:50)]I will tell you how Bush has made this country more safe, first of all in relation toward Iraq. What Bush did in Iraq was take Saddam out of power and while US troops were occupying the nation terrorist and insurgent forces attacked those US troops through any means possible. Now the way I see it is that by creating such an environment in Iraq, the US is fighting the terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan rather than fighting them on US soil through the use of the FBI and criminal investigations. Which would take much more time and would be very difficult to apprehend the terrorists. And once apprehended they could be set free, through the lack of evedence and loopholes with-in the US judicial system. But all of that has been avoided by a formal declaration of war and the terrorists being listed as combatants.

Ahh so bascially you take over a country, then anyone with anti US tendencies will try and kill you, and so you keep killing them till there is nobody left. Nice. Why not just nuke the middle east, its about as legal as what your doing and is far quicker.....

[Acecombat 0]

Quote[/b] ]Ah yes, more of that great respect and compassion for your fellow human being. I guess name calling is a true progressive value...

Its something we've come to love during the past few years taught to us by our great conservative divinely motivated leaders and the polarized world societys and their so called modern and equal values

Freedom fries , Independence duck and all , ah i just love the smell of stereotyping in the air.

Quote[/b] ]After 9/11, surely you must of known security has been tightened or you living in a box?

You got sky marshals in case of a repeat of 9/11, where were they before.

He said "lets invade afghanistan" not Iraq.

Air marshals? Yeah thats a very big leap forward .

I think many airlines have had them from a longtime before (could be wrong but i heard this is right) and if push coems to shove i dont think any marshal is gonna stop a a determined bunch of t's from doing what they want. You have to stop them before that improve your intelligence and natl security instead of spending money on unnecessary costly wars outside.

And if Bush didnt say 'invade iraq' , then i dont know who the hell did or maybe the american army just lost ways it in the desert and ended up one day in Baghdad

[Pathy 0]

Ahh yes the typical redneck bushite, doesnt care about anyone but Americans. If they dont have white skin and speak english...fuck em....right?

Typical liberal... anyone who doesn't agree with your extremist views must be a racist/redneck/uneducated/uncultured.

Your just as bad, as i am certainly no liberal. I'm pretty right wing infact. Just i actually think about things rather than letting Bush or Blair spoonfeed me my opinion.

[Akira 0]

If you people get my thread closed on the night of the election I'm gonna be super-pissed

[Pathy 0]

Hehe we can try  

Nah ill shut up with my rants now.

[GoOB 0]

V Good security, no one likes you

really crap security, 90% like you

The reason for most people disliking the US is most probably NOT airport security

Lets face it, the US has had a crap (aka agressive) foreign policy for decades. Supporting/unsupporting dictators to the left and right, all to further their own position in world politics and world economy. Getting screwed over, and left without a thank you - Is most frustrating. Especially so for religious, extremist terrorists, and other assorted saints.

Invading a country, and not even having the common sense/decency to do a proper job with cleaning it up. Before you move on invading another country which you are bound to leave in the same shitty state as the first one. Is NOT enforcing national security.

[hellfish6 7]

Am I invisible? This is my last warning. If you guys don't take a serious dose of intellectual Valium right now, this thread is getting locked until further notice and I'm gonna start handing out PRs.

[Cpt. Bazikian-5thSFG- 0]

ok, Hellfish.....BTW when are you gonna play on ZEUS server again?

[Acecombat 0]

Quote[/b] ]Why not just nuke the middle east,

Before you do so plz PM me or email me so i can get myself and my PC with OFP in it out in the safe

Quote[/b] ]If you people get my thread closed on the night of the election I'm gonna be super-pissed

Just dont invade any country for it will you ...

Quote[/b] ]Typical liberal... anyone who doesn't agree with your extremist views must be a racist/redneck/uneducated/uncultured.

We are talking common sense here and if someone doesnt understand COMMON SENSE then they do get labelled as someone with a below average IQ and consequently a redneck ... and i am no liberal either nor a conservative. I am a moderate.

[denoir 0]

@ Nov. 02 2004,21:31)]good point, and I agree with you I honestly could care less about what other nations think about the USA,

Well then stop begging us for money and troops for your war adventures. Don't come crying to us when your invasions don't work.

In Bosnia, Kosovo and Afghanistan, you bombed and we were left to clean up the mess on the ground. No more thank you. Either you be a good team player or take care of your own garbage.

Quote[/b] ]just so long as our citizens are secure from any such attack ever happening again.

I am constantly amazed by people not being able to make that simple connection: the attacks on the US were a direct consequence of US foreign policy that disregarded the effects it had on others. When you piss people off, they'll hurt you.

Now, when you are complaining about the "anti-American" Europeans, remember this: we're the best friends you have in the world. Imagine then how those that weren’t crazy about you in the first place feel now.

To put it bluntly, Bush is a walking recruiting poster for AQ. He did exactly what the Arabs expected: invaded Iraq for no valid reason. People over there were already suspicious of America and the Iraq war confirmed their suspicions. Bin Laden could have not been more pleased.

At the same time Bush managed to piss off most of Americas allies. For the fight against international terrorism, international cooperation is not a nicety, but a necessity. And sure enough, with the less-than-friendly relations, the hunt for the terrorists is running into obstacles.

[Cpt. Bazikian-5thSFG- 0]

I would like to hear more conservative views on this thread.....Too much of this liberal jargon on here.....I'd like to see if some other people that play OFP have the same opinion as me.

[Pathy 0]

Ace. Ill be sure to pass your phone number onto Bush before i inform him of my unique middle east "peace" plan

[Bordoy 0]

I think we should just get back to the US elections, before Hellfish inflicts hell upon us, lol.

Well i agree to stop talking about that thing, anyone with me?

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]Just dont invade any country for it will you ...

I find that less than amusing. Especially considering my stance on the subject. Should double check what people believe or where they stand before whip out some standard war-mongering American answer.

[Pathy 0]

@ Nov. 02 2004,22:02)]I would like to hear more conservative views on this thread.....Too much of this liberal jargon on here.....I'd like to see if some other people that play OFP have the same opinion as me.

By liberal jargon i take it you mean the truth.    Truth hurts buddy   (i better put i am just teasing, opinions do not equal fact, although i do belive the "liberal" opinion is better supported by fact...but hey thats just my opinion.:p )

Akira, he was just joking.

Edit: Yay Denoirs here! All you pro-Bush people better run and hide  

Oh Bordoy, i think Iraq ect is one of the major issues of the US election, therefore its a legit discussion when talking about the candidates.

[denoir 0]

Quote[/b] ]Just dont invade any country for it will you ...

I find that less than amusing. Especially considering my stance on the subject. Should double check what people believe or where they stand before whip out some standard war-mongering American answer.

That's democracy for you - at the start of the war a large majority of Americans supported the war. The individual opinion is of very little consequence.

Anyhow, if Bush wins, expect a lot worse. It will internationally be seen that the American people are pleased with Bush and support him. Unfair for about 50% of the population, but life's a bitch..

[General Barron 0]

Everyone thinks their opinion is "the truth" and "correct". My definition of someone who is open minded to CONSIDER that their views may be incorrect, or at least not the best way to do things. Along those lines, if you are open minded, it makes sense not to resort to such virulent namecalling of those who disagree with you, because they may very well be more right than you are. Instead, you should only use reasoning and logic, based on sound information, to argue your point.

Anyway, using my definition, I don't think anyone in this thread is very open-minded.

[Tovarish 0]

man, it's a shame I have to go to work now, this election is freaking hilarious to follow:

Quote[/b] ]The day started with a trip to Mt. Hermont African Methodist Episcopal Church. Actually, the day started with a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, but nobody cares about that now. We drove to the church to catch the sermon and the early voting. They were driving straight from the church to the polling place at the library. The pastor was laying a heavy squeeze on the congregation but most of them had already voted. Only five nice ladies got in the van to drive to the poll.

The line stretched through the parking lot and around the fence. It was ninety-nine percent black. There were different people pushing different issues and lots of signs and there were the phony Democrats, the Republicans posing as Democrats, with rainbow signs announcing Kerry/Edward Support Gay Adoption.

"We're with ActUp," the guy told me. He was wearing a greenish yellow bicycle shirt. His girlfriend was wearing a denim top and denim shorts with a cat-ear headband. The other girl had a fake nose ring.

"You're not with ActUp," I told them.

"Yes we are. We're from San Francisco," he said. Ross came by and started filming him and Josh started taking pictures. The guy walked away but I followed him.

"I'm asking you nicely not to take pictures of me," the guy said, hiding behind his sign. He seemed timid. I thought if this is the best they can do they're not going to do very well. If he tried that in Chicago Daley's goons would have wrapped him in a pipe necklace.

"You can ask me not nicely," I said. "You're creating news by posing as a Democrat and we're capturing that. We're not going anywhere." This was a strangely bold thing for me to say since I'm a coward. I was counting on the nice ladies from the church protecting me. But also, there was something unintimidating about a Republican disguised as a gay abortion rights activist supporting Kerry. The absurdity of his agiprop made me confident.

I followed him off to the side. He kept insisting he was from San Francisco. "I'm gay," he said. "I support Kerry. I know about the Castro and Polk Street." The women were closer to the line arguing with the local activists.

Someone in a yellow shirt got on a cell phone saying, "Let me call someone to take care of these Republicans."

I asked the people in line if it bothered them that there were Republicans posing as Democrats at their polling place. "Most of the people in this line I guarantee you they know what they're going to do before they get in," a lady in a black NAACP shirt said.

Once we started photographing and filming the Republicans they left fairly quickly. I followed them to the front of the library and then they walked north and they looked sad and stupid in their outfits. I thought it must be lonely lying to a big crowd and either being ignored or stared down with contempt. They had come to intimidate and make fun of people but were afraid to show their faces. Wherever they are now they are telling each other over beer and onion rings that it was worth it, that they were justified. But I imagine she's looking at him as less of a man than he was this morning, when he stood naked in his hotel room and pulled the curtain aside to let in the light and his cock cast a shadow across the nitestand. The window a portrait of the swimming pool and he announced his plan. Maybe she asked him to come back to bed then, a hero before the battle. But now staring at the drips of grease in the bottom of the wicker basket, he was just another fool in a long line of fools, and she was wearing cat ears and boots and denim shorts. It was humid and they were all leaving early, going back to where they live, at the intersection of evil and stupid.

The lesson here for Republicans is don't lie in front of your girlfriend. The lesson to all people in polls in swing states: bring cameras, especially video cameras. Don't listen to them if they tell you not to film them. If you see voter intimidation it's important to catch it on tape. Once you start filming chances are they'll leave.

Here's Josh's write-up of the scene. Josh mention a fourth GOPer but I didn't see him.

Link to above story <- killed by bandwidth for now.

[Cpt. Bazikian-5thSFG- 0]

Quote[/b] ]Just dont invade any country for it will you ...

I find that less than amusing. Especially considering my stance on the subject. Should double check what people believe or where they stand before whip out some standard war-mongering American answer.

Why a war mongering American? Why not just say war monger?

EDIT: That offends me, you honestly haven't seen what war mongering is if you think Iraq and Afghanistan is an example.

[Acecombat 0]

Quote[/b] ]Just dont invade any country for it will you ...

I find that less than amusing. Especially considering my stance on the subject. Should double check what people believe or where they stand before whip out some standard war-mongering American answer.

I was joking there akira , i know your stance very well

Quote[/b] ]I would like to hear more conservative views on this thread

You see thats the cut , you wont get any different conservative views then the ones you just expressed yourself. Ah if you mean the one by those educated conservatives who simply use difficult english vocabulary to their advantage to give an impression of stepping on top of a debate when it reality its nothing more then going round and round in circles without answering anything at all then you can view them through-out this thread but in a less frequent distribution.

[Pathy 0]

Because thanks to the man you support, "Warmongering" has become associated with the word "American" in many peoples eyes, especially foreigners. Then again, as you said, you dont care about what foreigners think, so dont worry about it.

[billybob2002 0]

Everybody knows who I voted for.....B....U....S....H......

However, I did vote for a democrat..Hoyer

Jesus Christ! Do not get this thread locked!