Us presidential election 2004

[denoir 0]

http://www.cnn.com/2004....ex.html

Quote[/b] ]WASHINGTON (AP) -- The United States, accustomed to giving advice on democracy, is in the unfamiliar position of getting some from international election observers schooled in Tajikistan, Ethiopia and other emerging democracies.

Two observer groups have been examining U.S. voting systems for compliance with international standards for free and fair elections.

The very idea disgusts some Republicans, who say it sends a message of weakness and compromises U.S. sovereignty. (Special Report: America Votes 2004)

Some Democrats say the scrutiny is overdue.

Former President Carter, for one, has said some U.S. voting systems don't meet international standards "even as many other nations are conducting elections that are internationally certified to be transparent, honest and fair." (Disabled hail e-voting despite doubts)

The observers already have found problems typical in countries with far less than 200 years of voting experience.

The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), a 55-state security group, said ballot secrecy is at risk because of the way some overseas ballots are being handled.

The Bush administration invited the OSCE observers as part of a standing agreement among member states.

David MacDonald, a Canadian member of a team organized by the San Francisco human rights group Global Exchange, said observers were shocked to find that partisan officials run U.S. elections.

They should be disgusted. Disgusted that it has come to that.

Given what happened the last elections, there is no choice. The situation was quite absurd. 500 votes - which is far within the margin of error of the counting. And the resolution was more than absurd. The politically appointed supreme court made the decision not to do a proper recount.

That type of things only happen in banana republics. First of all, it is a grave violation of the separation of the judicial power and the executive power:

The supreme court should not be politically appointed and supreme court judges must not have had any previous political affiliation. Othewise there is a clear conflict of interest when they "interpret" the law in political questions. This is a major flaw in your constitution that separates you from normal western democracies.

Secondly their verdict was absurd. In any normal democracy, the election would have been declared null and void and redone within a reasonable time frame. A bare minimum would have been Florida. In any normal democracy, you have defined the minimum difference required for a vote to be valid. That difference must be larger than the error introduced by the data collection.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Basically, the Chinese have reversed their position out of fears they will lose their stake in the process under a Kerry administration.

Your quote:

Quote[/b] ]erm, no, they didn't say exactly that.  The President said that.  

Chinese did say that six-nation approach is the best way to deal with the problem and not bilateral.

Quote[/b] ]Check the date on that quote you supplied, it was stated after the Bush-Kerry debate

before the debate..AFP said sept. 30

Quote[/b] ]In fact, South Korea is encouraging a bilateral engagement.

The SK govt. has not came out and said that. Furthermore, that link talks about somebody that agrees with bilateral talks and somebody disagrees...

Quote[/b] ]"Last thing I heard was that the Chinese were encouraging us to engage in bilateral talks with North Korea until very recently."

The six-nation talks started a year ago and that is not very recently...

[Blake 0]

Maybe you need bilateral talks with China in order to engage bilateral talks with NK. Anyway the current situation has to be improved one way or another.

[denoir 0]

Talking about the Bush administration's complete dettachment from reality:

Bush likes to mention the upcoming Afghan "elections". Some interesting facts - you be the judge of how real these elections are:

Government? What government?

[*] The president Hamid Karzai is basically the mayor of a part of Kabul, having absolutely no control of the rest of the country.

[*] 95% of the country is under the control of warlords.

[*] Several provinces are again under the control of Taliban governors.

The Madonnas

[*]Afghans don't have passports, driver's licenses or national ID cards.

[*]Representatives of the Karzai government can't travel freely, nor do they know who lives in their country, since they have never taken a census

[*]Estimates of the total population vary widely, between 24 and 28 million.

[*]Millions more live in in Iran and Pakistan; absentee ballots are impossible because Afghanistan doesn't have a postal system.

[*]Many Afghans are like Madonna; they only use one name. Because there are no phones or electricity to allow officials to crosscheck records, Madonna  from Kabul can easily register as Madonna from Mazar-e-Sharif and Madonna from Kandahar.

[*] Not that any records exist in the first place.

[*]The Bush administration brags that 12 million Afghans registered to vote; they leave out that only 10 million are eligible.

Pack your bags, we're going

[*] The Red Cross operates with a skeleton crew - most have left the country months ago.

[*] The UN has only a few people on the ground - the majority was evacuated during the last few months.

[*] The Doctors without borders, who you can find in basically any hellhole on earth, left Afghanistan in July after a presence of 24 years. They declared the situation too dangerous and left.

Heroin anybody?

[*]Afghanistan's main export is heroin.

[*]Last year the production was 3,600 tonnes, an increase of 30% since the year before.

[*]Since the Taliban were kicked out of power, production has gone up 200%

[*] 28 of the 32 provinces in Afghanistan are producing opium.

[*] 90% of the world's opium and herion is from Afghanistan.

Now I'm not saying that all the above is Bush's fault - it certainly isn't. Afghanistan has been a mess for a long time. It is however worth pointing out that the idea of proper elections now is absurd. At this point it is hard to even call Afghanistan a country. The elections are pure BS. It will probably take decades before proper ones can take place.

[FSPilot 0]

Probably because it's still a warzone, as well as Iraq.

[Bernadotte 0]

Bush likes to mention the upcoming Afghan "elections". Some interesting facts - you be the judge of how real these elections are:

Denoir, at the risk of comparing apples, oranges and bananas which elections are likely to be more real?  Afghan, Iraqi or US?

Get it? Bananas? ...ok nevermind the US.  

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Quote[/b] ]The Red Cross operates with a skeleton crew - most have left the country months ago.

If I remember correctly the Red Cross has removed ALL its staff due to the recent attacks a few days ago.

[Balschoiw 0]

I have my thumbs pressed for the NATO contingent in Afghanistan. This is a trciky situation right now. I hope they make it safe through the weekend and the time afterwards. Here are some opinions on the elections from the youth of Afghanistan.

Quote[/b] ]Parnian, 24, English student

Young Afghans talk to BBC News Online about their hopes for the future on the eve of the country's presidential elections.

"I am studying to become a journalist. Every day we hear news about bomb attacks, kidnappings, threats. The first thing the government must tackle is the issue of security.

As an Afghan woman, I also want the new government to tackle female illiteracy. Many families still do not send women to school."

Mohibul, 18, student

"I am delighted to be able to vote. It is the first time we have been given this right.

To me, the most important issue is the education of the young. We are the ones who are going to rebuild the country and we need to be properly trained to do so.

I need to be knowledgeable of what's going on around the world. I need to be an asset to my country, not a liability."

Ghazal, 21, medical student

"I am studying medicine and hope to become a doctor in five years. I am very hopeful about the future because of these elections.

We, the young people of Afghanistan, have been waiting for this day for many years. The time has come for us to come out and vote.

My message to the new president is to focus on our schools and education system. I dream of a new Afghanistan with happy people who are at peace with themselves."

Maziri, 25, teacher

"These elections are very confusing. There are 18 candidates to choose from - that's way too many. In the American elections, people choose between two candidates - it's a straightforward choice. This is not true for us.

The campaign has hardly addressed any issues. Most candidates simply promise us everything.

I hope the election is fair. One hears some countries are taking far too much of an interest in these elections. That is not a good sign."

Nilab, 19, radio presenter

"After these elections, I see a bright future for Afghanistan. It is a particularly special time for the young generation because it is going to pave the way for our future and allow us to reach our goals.

The next president must ensure our security. Without security we have no way of improving our situation.

It is also important for the president to improve our education."

Ajmal, 26, polytechnic student

"The new president should take some serious steps to rebuild our country - nearly three years after the Taleban, Afghanistan is still in a mess.

There are no proper houses for many, no sewage system in the city and people are poorly paid. [The new president] should pay attention to the plight of refugees who have returned.

But above all, I want security - without security there is no peace, no country, no government

Farida, 30, pharmacist

"Our new president should be somebody who represents all Afghans and not any one ethnic group.

To me, democracy does not mean a woman should throw away her veil. I believe that women in Kabul do enjoy rights but that is not the situation in the provinces.

We are in a strong position now because women's issues are being heard and there is global pressure on the government. But that does not mean we should give up our traditions."

Young Afghans look ahead

Keep in mind that those opinions were collected among people who are in a rather good position in Afghanistan. Interviews with people in the provinces were not conducted because of the terrible security situation.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Now the real dirty work starts for the republicans. They have to diffuse the attention away from the missing WMD. So therefore they are now publishing lists in which all companies are to be found, which received oil from Saddam Hussein.

Strangely enough we dont see names of american companies? But they were on the list but have been deleted because of  "restrictions in the US law". A dirty move. You cannot point the fingers at others without taking responsibility yourself.

But strangely enough.... most companies stem from countries which are now part of the COALITION of the WILLING.

...

sorry for the mistake... image larger than 100kb (worth a look)

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,397024,00.jpg

[theavonlady 2]

Strangely enough we dont see names of american companies? But they were on the list but have been deleted because of  "restrictions in the US law". A dirty move.

Anyone know what law this is?

Quote[/b] ]But strangely enough.... most companies stem from countries which are now part of the COALITION of the WILLING.

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,397024,00.jpg

Where was this list compiled from and what ever happened to the original oil voucher list?

[Bernadotte 0]

Hey m21man!!  Come show us your sig.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

I may assume this is simply a corporate list and the other one is a national list.

Bernadotte is late, I thought you gonna hit on m21man much earlier. Kerry is leading since a few days. Looks like you gonna get his post count.  

[Balschoiw 0]

Avon I guess they are referring to the

Privacy act of 1974 5 U.S.C. § 552a

THE PRIVACY ACT OF 1974

Quote[/b] ]Where was this list compiled from and what ever happened to the original oil voucher list?

The list came out with the WMD report, that has been investigated by TBA officials while the original is a journalistic investigated one with over 200 people or companies from almost the whole world.

Now the finger pointing at other countries or single persons is rather a desperate try to distract from the actual findings of the report and has to be seen as such.

The devastating report showed that the reasons used tojustify and and go for the war in Iraq have been nihilated.

Apart from that, the voucher list is irrelevant for the current status in Iraq and the participants of the list are not responsible for any Iraqi killed while the war killed over 12.000 at least.

I wonder where the point in this is, other than distracting from the failure of TBA, or better say willingly failure.

I guess it´s time for Bush to dig up his secret weapon from the White House basement

[Bernadotte 0]

And now a story for the is-anybody-really-surprised file:

Quote[/b] ]

<span style='font-size:11pt;line-height:100%'>Bush's mystery bulge</span>

The rumor is flying around the globe. Was the president wired during the first debate?

- - - - - - - - - - - -

By Dave Lindorff

Oct. 8, 2004  |  Was President Bush literally channeling Karl Rove in his first debate with John Kerry? That's the latest rumor flooding the Internet, unleashed last week in the wake of an image caught by a television camera during the Miami debate. The image shows a large solid object between Bush's shoulder blades as he leans over the lectern and faces moderator Jim Lehrer.

The president is not known to wear a back brace, and it's safe to say he wasn't packing. So was the bulge under his well-tailored jacket a hidden receiver, picking up transmissions from someone offstage feeding the president answers through a hidden earpiece? Did the device explain why the normally ramrod-straight president seemed hunched over during much of the debate?

Bloggers are burning up their keyboards with speculation. Check out the president's peculiar behavior during the debate, they say. On several occasions, the president simply stopped speaking for an uncomfortably long time and stared ahead with an odd expression on his face. Was he listening to someone helping him with his response to a question? Even weirder was the president's strange outburst. In a peeved rejoinder to Kerry, he said, "As the politics change, his positions change. And that's not how a commander in chief acts. * I, I, uh -- Let me finish -- The intelligence I looked at was the same intelligence my opponent looked at." It must be said that Bush pointed toward Lehrer as he declared "Let me finish." The green warning light was lit, signaling he had 30 seconds to, well, finish.

Hot on the conspiracy trail, I tried to track down the source of the photo. None of the Bush-is-wired bloggers, however, seemed to know where the photo came from. Was it possible the bulge had been Photoshopped onto Bush's back by a lone conspiracy buff? It turns out that all of the video of the debate was recorded and sent out by Fox News, the pool broadcaster for the event. Fox sent feeds from multiple cameras to the other networks, which did their own on-air presentations and editing.

To watch the debate again, I ventured to the Web site of the most sober network I could think of: C-SPAN. And sure enough, at minute 23 on the video of the debate, you can clearly see the bulge between the president's shoulder blades.

Bloggers stoke the conspiracy with the claim that the Bush administration insisted on a condition that no cameras be placed behind the candidates. An official for the Commission on Presidential Debates, which set up the lecterns and microphones on the Miami stage, said the condition was indeed real, the result of negotiations by both campaigns. Yet that didn't stop Fox from setting up cameras behind Bush and Kerry. The official said that "microphones were mounted on lecterns, and the commission put no electronic devices on the president or Senator Kerry." When asked about the bulge on Bush's back, the official said, "I don't know what that was."

So what was it? Jacob McKenna, a spyware expert and the owner of the Spy Store, a high-tech surveillance shop in Spokane, Wash., looked at the Bush image on his computer monitor. "There's certainly something on his back, and it appears to be electronic," he said. McKenna said that, given its shape, the bulge could be the inductor portion of a two-way push-to-talk system. McKenna noted that such a system makes use of a tiny microchip-based earplug radio that is pushed way down into the ear canal, where it is virtually invisible. He also said a weak signal could be scrambled and be undetected by another broadcaster.

Mystery-bulge bloggers argue that the president may have begun using such technology earlier in his term. Because Bush is famously prone to malapropisms and reportedly dyslexic, which could make successful use of a teleprompter problematic, they say the president and his handlers may have turned to a technique often used by television reporters on remote stand-ups. A reporter tapes a story and, while on camera, plays it back into an earpiece, repeating lines just after hearing them, managing to sound spontaneous and error free.

Suggestions that Bush may have using this technique stem from a D-day event in France, when a CNN broadcast appeared to pick up -- and broadcast to surprised viewers -- the sound of another voice seemingly reading Bush his lines, after which Bush repeated them. Danny Schechter, who operates the news site MediaChannel.org, and who has been doing some investigating into the wired-Bush rumors himself, said the Bush campaign has been worried of late about others picking up their radio frequencies -- notably during the Republican Convention on the day of Bush's appearance. "They had a frequency specialist stop me and ask about the frequency of my camera," Schechter said. "The Democrats weren't doing that at their convention."

Repeated calls to the White House and the Bush national campaign office over a period of three days, inquiring about what the president may have been wearing on his back during the debate, and whether he had used an audio device at other events, went unreturned. So far the Kerry campaign is staying clear of this story. When called for a comment, a press officer at the Democratic National Committee claimed on Tuesday that it was "the first time" they'd ever heard of the issue. A spokeswoman at the press office of Kerry headquarters refused to permit me to talk with anyone in the campaign's research office. Several other requests for comment to the Kerry campaign's press office went unanswered.

As for whether we really do have a Milli Vanilli president, the answer at this point has to be, God only knows.

-- Salon.com

*  I also very clearly remember him saying "let me finish" at a moment when he still had plenty of time and nobody in the room was trying to interupt him.

Edit:  Added links that were embedded in the article.

[theavonlady 2]

Hey m21man!!  Come show us your sig.

http://www.electoral-vote.com/graph.png

Site hacked. Look here.

Real electoral stats here.

[Balschoiw 0]

I guess that´s pretty obvious, isn´t it ?

Quote[/b] ]Suggestions that Bush may have using this technique stem from a D-day event in France, when a CNN broadcast appeared to pick up -- and broadcast to surprised viewers -- the sound of another voice seemingly reading Bush his lines, after which Bush repeated them. Danny Schechter, who operates the news site MediaChannel.org, and who has been doing some investigating into the wired-Bush rumors himself, said the Bush campaign has been worried of late about others picking up their radio frequencies -- notably during the Republican Convention on the day of Bush's appearance. "They had a frequency specialist stop me and ask about the frequency of my camera," Schechter said. "The Democrats weren't doing that at their convention."

Sooo, who is the man in Bush´s ear ?

[theavonlady 2]

<span style='font-size:11pt;line-height:100%'>Bush's mystery bulge</span>

That is obviously a bag of pretzels.

[denoir 0]

Site hacked. Look here.

Idiots

You can guess who it is going to hurt.

[Badgerboy 0]

Well, all Kerry has to do his rip his jacket off his shoulders tonight. That should go down well with the audience, if he doesn't get shot by the Secret Service first.

[Badgerboy 0]

Site hacked. Look here.

Idiots  

You can guess who it is going to hurt.

Are you sure its been 'hacked', and its not a database spaz up?

[theavonlady 2]

Well, all Kerry has to do his rip his jacket off his shoulders tonight. That should go down well with the audience, if he doesn't get shot by the Secret Service first.

I bet Kerry will call the agent an SOB again, like last time.

[theavonlady 2]

Slate's electoral vote estimate currently says Bush: 295, Kerry: 243.

[denoir 0]

Are you sure its been 'hacked', and its not a database spaz up?

Yeah, since the text has been changed as well:

Quote[/b] ]There are 48 new polls today in a total of 25 states. The bottom line is that Kerry is continuing to surge. He now has more than the 270 votes in the electoral college needed to be elected president. However

[Bernadotte 0]

Site hacked. Look here.

Real electoral stats here.

No.

Like I've said before, the projected final graphs are meaningless in a world where bin Laden's capture can change everything overnight.

The actual stats for today are shown right here.

[Balschoiw 0]

At least he won´t be told that by a guy in his ear.

*jumps into the shed to revive an old military transmitter and add a booster*

Just found the audio recording of another french incident.

It´s as audio stream on the White house page.

Audio stream of ghost speaker

Listen to the segment starting at 22.40 of the file. You can clearly hear a guy telling the answer to a journalist BEFORE Bush says it. Bush also does add "great" to the prespoken answer. Very obviouse , isn´t it ?