Us presidential election 2004

[Supah 0]

Quote[/b] ]Noone is sending troops in significant numbers because the traditional allies (and the people with the manpower to send large numbers)  have been allianated

Just for the record. Currently 2250 german soldiers are in Afghanistan, and KSK forces have fought along US special forces there in unknown numbers. We did indeed support the war on terror by contributing troops and giving money and we still do. German troops are stationed in Kabul, Kundus and Faisabad and form PRT´s (Provincial Reconstruction Teams) wich conduct rebuilding and security operations.

The war in Afghanistan however has nothing to do with Iraq.

German KSK forces in Afganistan:

[ig]http://www.military-page.de/einheit/ksk/bild_afg_01.jpg[/img]

Was talking about Iraq

[Balschoiw 0]

Reacted to this:

Quote[/b] ]When Kerry says that the USA has little allies in the war on terror he is right.

[Supah 0]

Reacted to this:

Quote[/b] ]When Kerry says that the USA has little allies in the war on terror he is right.

 

My mistake, meant to say war in Iraq

[billybob2002 0]

Elect Kerry!!! So, we can have a war with Poland...

http://www.drudgereport.com/dnc58.htm

Quote[/b] ]

XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX TUE OCT 05, 2004 14:05:38 ET XXXXX

POLISH PRESIDENT SLAMS KERRY AFTER DEBATE SNUB

Polish President Aleksander Kwasniewski has slammed Dem president hopeful John Kerry for not recognizing Poland's contributions and sacrifice to the war in Iraq.

"It is sad that a senator with 20 years of experience does not recognize Polish contribution. This is immoral," Polish President Aleksander Kwasniewski told FACTS in an interview commenting on the US Presidential Debate.

"It is sad that a senator with 20 years of experience underestimates Polish sacrifice, this is sad."

The Polish President added however that one should consider this was a part of the ongoing electoral campaign.

"I do not think this was out of ignorance," the president emphasized on the TVN Facts.

"There is one thing which should be stated clearly: this coalition is not just the United States, Great Britain, Australia alone; it also involves participation of Polish, Ukrainian, Bulgarian and Spanish soldiers who have died. It is immoral not to recognize the involvement we contributed based on our conviction that there should be unity in fighting terrorism, that there was a need to display international solidarity and that Saddam Hussein was a dangerous individual of this world."

"President Bush acted like a real Texan gentleman, he made sure to show appreciation for other countries' involvement in the coalition," Kwasniewski pointed out.

MORE

Maybe against the Saudis, also....

[Donnervogel 0]

Elect Kerry!!! So, we can have a war with Poland...

http://www.drudgereport.com/dnc58.htm

Quote[/b] ]

XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX TUE OCT 05, 2004 14:05:38 ET XXXXX

POLISH PRESIDENT SLAMS KERRY AFTER DEBATE SNUB

Polish President Aleksander Kwasniewski has slammed Dem president hopeful John Kerry for not recognizing Poland's contributions and sacrifice to the war in Iraq.

"It is sad that a senator with 20 years of experience does not recognize Polish contribution. This is immoral," Polish President Aleksander Kwasniewski told FACTS in an interview commenting on the US Presidential Debate.

"It is sad that a senator with 20 years of experience underestimates Polish sacrifice, this is sad."

The Polish President added however that one should consider this was a part of the ongoing electoral campaign.

"I do not think this was out of ignorance," the president emphasized on the TVN Facts.

"There is one thing which should be stated clearly: this coalition is not just the United States, Great Britain, Australia alone; it also involves participation of Polish, Ukrainian, Bulgarian and Spanish soldiers who have died. It is immoral not to recognize the involvement we contributed based on our conviction that there should be unity in fighting terrorism, that there was a need to display international solidarity and that Saddam Hussein was a dangerous individual of this world."

"President Bush acted like a real Texan gentleman, he made sure to show appreciation for other countries' involvement in the coalition," Kwasniewski pointed out.

MORE

Maybe against the Saudis, also....

OMG the polish president forgot the Italians! He's as immoral as Kerry!!!

Where will we end with such nit-picking?

[Supah 0]

Elect Kerry!!! So, we can have a war with Poland...

http://www.drudgereport.com/dnc58.htm

Quote[/b] ]

XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX TUE OCT 05, 2004 14:05:38 ET XXXXX

POLISH PRESIDENT SLAMS KERRY AFTER DEBATE SNUB

Polish President Aleksander Kwasniewski has slammed Dem president hopeful John Kerry for not recognizing Poland's contributions and sacrifice to the war in Iraq.

"It is sad that a senator with 20 years of experience does not recognize Polish contribution. This is immoral," Polish President Aleksander Kwasniewski told FACTS in an interview commenting on the US Presidential Debate.

"It is sad that a senator with 20 years of experience underestimates Polish sacrifice, this is sad."

The Polish President added however that one should consider this was a part of the ongoing electoral campaign.

"I do not think this was out of ignorance," the president emphasized on the TVN Facts.

"There is one thing which should be stated clearly: this coalition is not just the United States, Great Britain, Australia alone; it also involves participation of Polish, Ukrainian, Bulgarian and Spanish soldiers who have died. It is immoral not to recognize the involvement we contributed based on our conviction that there should be unity in fighting terrorism, that there was a need to display international solidarity and that Saddam Hussein was a dangerous individual of this world."

"President Bush acted like a real Texan gentleman, he made sure to show appreciation for other countries' involvement in the coalition," Kwasniewski pointed out.

MORE

Maybe against the Saudis, also....

OMG the polish president forgot the Italians! He's as immoral as Kerry!!!

Where will we end with such nit-picking?

And he forgot the The Netherlands. How very typical of certain people to try and distract from the issues (where their candidate is failing badly) by coming up with trivial and unimportant nonsense.

[Balschoiw 0]

I like this expression

Quote[/b] ]President Bush acted like a real Texan gentleman

Doesn´t anyone else see the contradiction between Texan and gentleman ?

Some things just don´t go well with each other

[turms 0]

For every Drudge, ill post 1 Mike. Here it goes!

Quote[/b] ]In the wake of the September 11, 2001 attacks, due process has disappeared from the American judicial system. Everyone has a right to a lawyer and a trial, right? According to the Bush administration, not anymore.

Here's the catch: if you're not charged with a crime, you don't get the right to a trial. The Bush administration has used this loophole to their advantage. Classifying detainees as "enemy combatants" avoids having to be consistent with all those messy international human rights standards like the Geneva Convention. Detainees at Guantanamo Bay have received a lot of attention recently, despite the Bush administration's attempt to keep things quiet. Not only have top intelligence officials confirmed that none of the prisoners are high-ranking terrorists, but they also verified that less than 24 of the over 600 detainees are even suspected to be members of al Qaeda. Dick Cheney and other Bush administration officials have justified their illegal, unethical treatment of prisoners in Guantanamo by declaring that they were the worst of the worst, but clearly this isn't true.

Reports of torture at the Abu Ghraib prison are not isolated incidents. A rapid increase in suicide attempts at Guantanamo prompted many human rights organizations to suspect similar conditions of torture. The ACLU and Amnesty International are among the groups calling for an independent investigation to document previous human rights abuses and prevent further torture from occurring. While the US plans to release secret documents that prove torture was not condoned by high ranking Bush administration officials, they are not releasing other documents that provide legal justifications for torture. In fact, Ashcroft will not even discuss them with the Senate Judiciary Committee.

http://www.michaelmoore.com/takeaction/index.php

(interesting linking in the original article)

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Kerry did not deliberately FORGET any of these members but he was making a clear point that the US and a few others are carrying the real burden and therefore a COALITION is a relatively ridiculous term. What percentage does the polish contigency make up of the entire coalition forces?

And it is ridiculous indeed

Quote[/b] ]As of August 5, 2004, there were 30 non-U.S. military forces contributing to the ongoing stability operations throughout Iraq. These countries were Albania, Australia, Azerbaijan, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Denmark, Dominican Rep, El Salvador, Estonia, Georgia, Hungary, Italy, Japan, Kazakhstan, South Korea, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, Moldova, Mongolia, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Thailand, United Kingdom, and Ukraine"

The Kingdom of Tonga did, however, deploy 45 Royal Marines in early July to Iraq. Thailand withdrew its contingent from Iraq in late August and flew it home in early September. New Zealand redeployed its contingent of 61 troops in late-September 2004. As a result, there are 29 countries participating in the coalition.

And where is the firepower of this "Great Coalition?". Is it Norway with its 10 soldiers? No he was right when he said that americans should not count on the current coalition to support and release american troops from pressure. Currently the UK, largest contributor, has around 9000 soldiers in Iraq. Well in comparison the US, how much is that exactly? And Poland with 2000 soldiers might be a moral contributor but definetly not significantly helping.

There is no coalition that provides significant firepower and fights alongside the US. This is pure propaganda.

And where is this great coalition next year? the year that Kerry was refering to? Poland's Defense Minister announced on Oct. 4, 2004, that Poland would withdraw its troop contingent from Iraq by the end of 2005. The US will stand pretty alone at the end of 2005.

Dont trust me? Read this!

Interesting read

[walker 0]

Hi all

I just found out that George Bush Junior is not a Texan he is in fact a Phoney Texan from Connecticut.

All that cowboy stuff is phoney from the Connecticut Carpet Bagger.

Not unusual fantasy seems to be the world most of the NeoConMen live in. Fantasies about the Thursday debate being a draw, the swift fantasies, fantasy business people who run their business's into bankruptcy like Dodgy Dick Cheyney and his bankrupt Halliburton sucking off the state benefit teat with its no bid contracts, Fantasy Oil business's that go bankrupt under George Bush Junior the Connecticut Carpet Bagger, or the Connecticut Carpet Bagger's fantasy boardroom Job for the Bin Laden's where a friend of his dady had to get him the work out of charity because he could not get a job as director himself, fantasies about the Iraq war being over, fantasies that Iraq was the enemy who attacked the US.

It apears to me that the NeoConMen live in a world of their own fantasies, they achieved nadir of cons and conned themselves into believing their own fantasies.      

ROFL Walker

[EiZei 0]

Meanwhile..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3713186.stm

Quote[/b] ]

Poland could withdraw all its troops from Iraq next year, President Aleksander Kwasniewski has said.

He said Poland could pull out at the end of 2005, but he stressed that no final decision had been taken.

Earlier, there was confusion when Poland's defence minister said troops should be home by next December, but other government figures demurred.

Warsaw, a staunch ally of the US in Iraq, sent 2,400 troops and commands a multinational force of 6,000.

[walker 0]

Hi all

Some of the history of the phoney texan and real Connecticut Carpet Bagger

Born: July 6, 1946 in New Haven, Connecticut, while his father, former U.S. President George H.W. Bush, was a student at Yale.

Attended Phillips Academy prep school at Andover yes he was a preppie, then Yale from 1964 until 1968 and graduated with a major in history; played baseball during freshman year and rugby during junior and senior years; became a member of the super-secret Skull and Bones society, following in the footsteps of his father and grandfather; later attended Harvard and earned a Masters of Business Administration in 1975. Bush was such a mediocre student that the dean of students at Andover was pessimistic about his chances of getting into Yale. The suggested that he have a backup option. Harvard Business school was a backup option that he had to take advantage of after the University of Texas law school turned him down. Harvard alums say the admissions process was somewhat mysterious. One of Bush's Harvard classmates was a circus barker.

Profession: In the West Texas energy business, George W. Bush started out researching who owned mineral rights. He later traded mineral and royalty interests and invested in drilling prospects. He had started his own oil and gas company by 1978, taking $17,000 from his education trust fund to set up Arbusto Energy (arbusto means Bush in Spanish). The company fell on hard times when oil prices fell. He made several attempts to revive the business, first by changing the company's name and later by merging with other companies. In 1983, Bush’s company was rescued from failure when Spectrum 7 Energy Corporation, a small oil firm owned by William DeWitt and Mercer Reynolds, bought it. Bush became chief executive officer. Harken Energy Corporation acquired Spectrum 7 in 1986, after Spectrum had lost $400,000. In the buyout deal, Bush and his partners were given more than $2 million worth of Harken stock for the 180-well operation. Bush became a director and was hired as a "consultant" to Harken. He received another $600,000 of Harken stock, and has been paid between $42,000 and $120,000 a year. By the spring of 1987, Harken was in need of cash. So Bush and his fellow Harken officials met with Jackson Stephens, head of Stephens, Inc., an investment bank in Little Rock, Arkansas (Stephens contributed $100,000 to the Reagan-Bush campaign in 1980 and gave another $100,000 to the Bush dinner committee in 1990.) Stephens arranged for Union Bank of Switzerland (UBS) to provide $25 million to Bush’s company in return for a stock interest in Harken. As part of the deal, Sheikh Abdullah Bakhsh, a Saudi real estate tycoon and financier, joined Harken's board as a major investor. Stephens, UBS, and Bakhsh each had ties to the infamous, scandal-ridden Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI). In 1990, Bush sold his remaining stock options and left the oil business. Writer Jack Colhoun revealed some details of that stock sale, referring to Bush by his childhood nickname “Juniorâ€:

On June 22, 1990, George Jr. sold two-thirds of his Harken stock for $848,560-a cool 200 percent profit. The move was well timed. One week after Junior sold his stock, Harken announced a $23.2 million loss in quarterly earnings and Harken stock dropped sharply, losing 60 percent of its value over the next six months. On August 2, 1990, Iraqi troops moved into Kuwait and 541,000 U.S. forces were deployed to the Gulf.

"There is substantial evidence to suggest that Bush knew Harken was in dire straits in the weeks before he sold the $848,560 of Harken stock," asserted U.S. News & World Report. The magazine noted Harken appointed Junior to a 'fairness committee' to study possible economic restructuring of the company. Junior worked closely with financial advisers from Smith Barney, Harris Upham & Company, who concluded "only drastic action could save Harken."

A year earlier, in 1989, Bush prepared for his move from the oil business to the sports business when he helped assemble a group who purchased the Texas Rangers baseball team from Eddie Chiles. He and Rusty Rose served as managing general partners until Bush was elected Governor of Texas in 1994.

More Later Kind Regards Walker.

[shinRaiden 0]

And some more...

Knoxville, Tennesse:

Quote[/b] ]

An unknown suspect fired several shots into the Bearden office of the Bush/Cheney re-election campaign Tuesday morning.

...

According to Knoxville Police Department (KPD) officers on the scene Tuesday, it is believed that the two separate shots were fired from a car sometime between 6:30 am and 7:15 am.

...

"If I have to sleep here (at the campaign office) now, that's what I'll do," says volunteer Suzanne Dewar.

I went up the the Washington state office saturday (day after the laptops were stolen) to get some more signs. It's well outside that city's main business district, and the specific office is a ways back in the complex. There's no external identification other than a plaque on the door. Why none of the adjoining businesses were hit, and the 'coincidence' of the same thing during the last campaign is more than just a bit suspicious.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]For every Drudge, ill post 1 Mike. Here it goes!

erm... those are Aleksander Kwasniewski words not drudge..

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]I just found out that George Bush Junior is not a Texan he is in fact a Phoney Texan from Connecticut.

All that cowboy stuff is phoney from the Connecticut Carpet Bagger.

erm.... he grew up has a child in Texas and is the only Bush child not born in Texas...

Quote[/b] ]became a member of the super-secret Skull and Bones society, following in the footsteps of his father and grandfather;

STOP THE PRESS!!!! Bush was in Skull and Bones? My God!!! My vote has changed to Kerry! Wait a sec. Kerry was in Skull and Bones...

[walker 0]

Hi billybob2002

But George Bush Junior is the Phoney Texan Carpet Bagger from Connecticut who was a prepy and went to Yale.

Even the cowboy texan stuff is all just fantasy like most of the NeoConMen's cons. The fantasy tax cut only for the super rich prepy cronies. The fantasy enemy of the Iraq war. The fantasy draw in Thursday's Debate. The fantasy power shortages and scams of the ENRON scandle. The fantasy oil shortage that gouges Americans every time the vist the gas pump and that only helps the NeoConMen in Big Oil, George Bush Junior the Connecticut Carpet Bagger speculator buddies the Bin Ladens and the Saudi Royal Family.  

While John F. Kerry is honest about his policies and backround.

On National Security.

Quote[/b] ]John Kerry and John Edwards believe in a better, stronger America - an America that is respected, not just feared. An America that listens and leads - that cherishes freedom, safeguards our people, uplifts others, forges alliances, and deserves respect. This is the America they believe in. This is the America they are fighting for. And this is the America we can be.

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/national_security/

Quote[/b] ]Launch And Lead A New Era Of Alliances

The threat of terrorism demands alliances on a global scale - to utilize every available resource to get the terrorists before they can strike at us. As president, John Kerry will lead a coalition of the able - because no force on earth is more able than the United States and its allies.

Modernize The World's Most Powerful Military To Meet New Threats

John Kerry and John Edwards have a plan to transform the world's most powerful military to better address the modern threats of terrorism and proliferation, while ensuring that we have enough properly trained and equipped troops to meet our enduring strategic and regional missions.

Deploy All That Is In America's Arsenal

The war on terror cannot be won by military might alone. As president, John Kerry will deploy all the forces in America's arsenal - our diplomacy, our intelligence system, our economic power, and the appeal of our values and ideas - to make America more secure and prevent a new generation of terrorists from emerging.

Free America From Its Dangerous Dependence On Mideast Oil

To secure our full independence and freedom, we must free America from its dangerous dependence on Mideast oil. By tapping American ingenuity, we can achieve that goal while growing our economy and protecting our environment.

On the Economy.

John F.Kerry has promised to get rid of the Republican tax and spend policies that have driven the US down from being to one the best economies in the world under the Democratic Clinton Presidency to the indebted nation it is under George Bush Junior: with the dollar not worth toilet paper, no jobs, and a federal Defecit that is simply stagering, soaring gas prices and that is before we count the ever increasing burdon the mistake of the Iraq War on a fantasy enemy

John Kerry will:

Quote[/b] ]Create Good-Paying Jobs

As president, John Kerry will cut taxes for businesses that create jobs here in America instead of moving them overseas. John Kerry and John Edwards will also stand up for workers by enforcing our trade agreements.

Cut Middle-Class Taxes To Raise Middle-Class Incomes

When John Kerry is president, middle-class taxes will go down. Ninety-eight percent of all Americans and 99 percent of American businesses will get a tax cut under the Kerry-Edwards plan.

Make Washington Live Within A Budget

John Kerry will cut the deficit in half during his first four years in office. He will end corporate welfare as we know it, roll back the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, and impose a real cap to keep spending in check. And when John Kerry puts forward a new idea, he'll tell you how he's going to pay for it.

Invest In The Jobs Of Tomorrow

Today, businesses are harnessing new technology to manufacture energy-efficient cars, high-grade steel, advanced plastics and other new products. And this requires a bigger, skilled labor force to make them. John Kerry and John Edwards believe we should invest in these jobs and invest in the people who will fill them.

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/economy/

Kind Regards Walker

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]But George Bush Junior is the Phoney Texan Carpet Bagger from Connecticut who was a prepy and went to Yale.

He cannot help that he was not born in Texas like the rest of the Bush kids.

Quote[/b] ]The fantasy tax cut only for the super rich prepy cronies.

I guess you did not hear about the middle-class tax cut he signed a few days like he has done for the last 4 years or so...

Quote[/b] ]The fantasy oil shortage that gouges Americans every time the vist the gas pump and that only helps the NeoConMen in Big Oil

Hold on! You were running your mouth about the mythic $50 dollar stuff..

Quote[/b] ]On the Economy.

John F.Kerry has promised to get rid of the Republican tax and spend policies that have driven the US down from being to one the best economies in the world under the Democratic Clinton Presidency to the indebted nation it is under George Bush Junior: with the dollar not worth toilet paper, no jobs, and a federal Defecit that is simply stagering, soaring gas prices and that is before we count the ever increasing burdon the mistake of the Iraq War on a fantasy enemy

John Kerry will:

John Kerry sounds like he has a spent-spent policy..

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]Deploy All That Is In America's Arsenal

The war on terror cannot be won by military might alone. As president, John Kerry will deploy all the forces in America's arsenal - our diplomacy, our intelligence system, our economic power, and the appeal of our values and ideas - to make America more secure and prevent a new generation of terrorists from emerging.

The part I bolded is potentially one of the most idiotic statements I've ever heard. A Muslim with even an average amount of faith is repulsed by American popular culture (And what it says about American values and ideas).

Quote[/b] ]Modernize The World's Most Powerful Military To Meet New Threats

John Kerry and John Edwards have a plan to transform the world's most powerful military to better address the modern threats of terrorism and proliferation, while ensuring that we have enough properly trained and equipped troops to meet our enduring strategic and regional missions.

And John Kerry has a 20 year record of voting against giving the military more advanced technology. The AH-64, the Tomahawk, and many other modernizations have been on his hit list.

Quote[/b] ]Free America From Its Dangerous Dependence On Mideast Oil

To secure our full independence and freedom, we must free America from its dangerous dependence on Mideast oil. By tapping American ingenuity, we can achieve that goal while growing our economy and protecting our environment.

Yes, one day fossil fuels will be obsolete. But until the technology becomes cheap, practical, and acquires popular appeal, America needs oil.

Quote[/b] ]And when John Kerry puts forward a new idea, he'll tell you how he's going to pay for it.

By contributing some of his own fortune? No, he'll raise taxes.

[walker 0]

Hi all

After first denying that Paul Bremmer asked for more troops for Iraq TBA has admited that he did infact do just that as the previous Iraq admistrator did and now TBA having been caught out in that lie are attempting spin that it was US generals who told them they did not need more troops.

Quote[/b] ]President Bush’s campaign, reacting today to a report that the former U.S. official who governed Iraq after the invasion said more troops had been needed to subdue the country, today acknowledged that L. Paul Bremer had disagreed with military leaders on how many troops were needed in Iraq.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8554-2004Oct5.html

This despite several US generals saying the oposite in August.

All along the Civilians in TBA have argued for rediculously low numbers of troops in Iraq in fact TBA's Original plan was for a rediculous 30,000 troops in 2003.

Quote[/b] ]The review of "In the Company of Soldiers" by Washington Post war correspondent Rick Atkinson reveals the ridiculously low estimate made by the Pentagon's civilian leadership of troops needed in Iraq. Those words echoed eerily amid news of open fighting in Baghdad between U.S. troops and Shiite militia.

In the "afterword" following his brilliant account of the actual war, Atkinson wrote: "Pentagon planners in early May had predicted that U.S. troop levels would be down to 30,000 by late summer (of 2003)."

That was the first time that prediction had been seen in print by startled readers at the Defense Department. The existing 125,000 troop-level (currently at 135,000 because of replacements) is considered inadequate by the generals. Gen. John Abizaid, the regional commander-in-chief, is not a yes-man and has made clear he will ask for more troops if his subordinate commanders need them.

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/08/troops/

The rediculous underestimation of the requirements of war is what one must expect from Chicken Hawks like George Bush Junior and Dodgy Dick Cheney. With no military experience the do not know what it is they are getting into or the costs it will bring.

The US now needs a Real War President like John F. Kerry.

Kind Regards Walker

[Blake 0]

Quote[/b] ]The part I bolded is potentially one of the most idiotic statements I've ever heard. A Muslim with even an average amount of faith is repulsed by American popular culture (And what it says about American values and ideas).

So why there are lots of muslims living in your country or UK? Are they all non-believers or heretics?   Who's making the idiotic statements now?

Quote[/b] ]And John Kerry has a 20 year record of voting against giving the military more advanced technology. The AH-64, the Tomahawk, and many other modernizations have been on his hit list.

It's good to be critical sometimes with such a military bugdet, look at horrendously expensive failures like Comanche or the ridiculously expensive M2 Bradley project and others.

Quote[/b] ]By contributing some of his own fortune? No, he'll raise taxes.

For the rich? why not?

[FSPilot 0]

It's good to be critical sometimes with such a military bugdet, look at horrendously expensive failures like Comanche or the ridiculously expensive M2 Bradley project and others.

And 9/11, believed by many to be brought on by a lack of an intelligence budget.

For the rich? why not?

Because they pay the vast majority of our taxes already?

[Blake 0]

Quote[/b] ]And 9/11, believed by many to be brought on by a lack of an intelligence budget.

Whats that gotta do with votes cast by Kerry? And on who's watch has the US experienced it's biggest intelligence failures?

Quote[/b] ]Because they pay the vast majority of our taxes already?

Care to prove that?

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]And 9/11, believed by many to be brought on by a lack of an intelligence budget.

The intelligence community was gutted by Carter, made a little better by Reagan, cut back again by Bush Sr. and Clinton and nothing was done about it by Bush Jr.

Everyone believed electronic and high tech esponiage was good enough. It wasn't until 9/11 that the importance of human intelligence again was proven.

Quote[/b] ]Because they pay the vast majority of our taxes already?

And they also have the largest tax breaks. Not so with middle and lower class.

Quote[/b] ]

And John Kerry has a 20 year record of voting against giving the military more advanced technology. The AH-64, the Tomahawk, and many other modernizations have been on his hit list.

Thank you Bush/Cheney. Think for yourself and don't read from a script.

Most of those were attached, or part of larger spending bills. People seem to think there is a "Tomahawk" Bill or Apache Bill. They are a small part of larger bills, sometimes Defense Bills, and sometimes not. Sometimes part of pork bills. The M2 was a huge expensive, pork purchase. It didn't even do what it was suppose to do when it first came out.

[Frisbee 0]

And 9/11, believed by many to be brought on by a lack of an intelligence budget.

Yes, modernise the military for today's threats. Less tanks, less subs (yeah I'm just posting these examples for argument's sake, too tired to put up better ones) and let all that budget flow towards intelligence.

You really can't say, "modernise" is such a nice political term that doesn't really says anything about "what" will change and "how and when?".

Quote[/b] ]Because they pay the vast majority of our taxes already?

They should pay at least as much percentage-wise as normal families, preferably much more.

"But they worked for their wealth!"

Yes, Paris Hilton has amassed a nice fortune for her young life, but only because she was lucky enough to be born into a wealthy family. Luck or hard work? Tough call.

We are born inequal, from the enviroment you're born into, to your physical attributes (strength, endurance...), psychological attributes (intelligence, memory...) and random attributes (hours of sleep/day needed, creativity...).

Should someone who was lucky enough to be gifted with some intelligence and business sense say he shouldn't have to pay taxes because he's worked hard to get where he is? In essence he's saying that he's better than another man who was less lucky than he was. Have we evolved so little that we still abide by the law of the jungle? The strong survive?

I hope you agree with me when I express my hope that we have advanced past that.

I'm studying in college now, and my passing will depend on hard work a lot as well, but still the factor luck is important in my eyes, for passing (will this or that teacher have a dislike for me?) and for the sole reason that I got here (schools with demotivated teachers might've already broken me).

If I end up making a respectable wage because of hard work and luck,I'll accept (not with a smile of course) that my governement will take some of the money, and try to put it to a use that will benefit society as a whole.

If you think your governement wouldn't at least try to spend the money they "acquired" from you in a manner vaguely benefiting society you just elected the wrong governement.

[ lengthy post, sorry, goodnight ]

[denoir 0]

Any thoughts on the debate?

Cheney is certainly a better debater than Bush and he came up with some fairly good attack angles. On the other hand Edwards was much more to the point. Cheney had a tendency to go off in some obscure directions. For instance when he got the question about a divided America, he started naming people in various sub-comittees that he had worked 10 years ago.

Then there is also the complete distortion of the Iraq/Afghanistan picture, where he showed the same denial of reality that seems to be the official GOP line.

Edwards on the other hand overtly dodged some questions. Plus he doesn't do a too convincing job of playing Bush ("strong leader" bullshit rethorics) - which apparently is necessary to win.

Bottom line - Cheney did worse than I expected and I was not too impressed with Edwards. He did from time to time make an impression - specifically on domestic issues.

Well, it's 5 in the morning here, so I'll probably have a more coherent opinion tomorrow