Us presidential election 2004

[Blake 0]

Kerry indeed had very good punches there that left him the President on defense.

But sadly this election is not about facts for such a large mass of voters. They just keep voting on the repeated rhetoric and 'feelgood' factor and stubborn old-fashioned party loyalism. Issues are not being questioned like bad economy, living in denial seems to be the best safe haven everybody can resort to...

[Akira 0]

This is exactly like the first debate.

Indeed. They are both finding ways to bring up the exact same things they said in the first debate....

EDIT: Used "liberal" in the nasty sense...

EDIT2: With the amount of time that candidates and other politicians quote McCain, or mentioning McCain, I seriously wonder why he is not my president right now. I know I would vote for him, and I everyone I know would vote for him. Just by their quoting and mentioning of McCain when ever they can, they clearly recognize his popularity to the public. Why oh why is he not there now??

[Blake 0]

Who is McCain, a senator?

[Akira 0]

Who is McCain, a senator?

Sen. John McCain-R Arizona...

He is a Republican but works usually more as an independant. He has Republican leanings, but has no problem crossing the aisle, and he has hundreds of times, to stand with Democrats.

Basically people like him because he truely follows what he believes, and if the party line crosses that, he bucks the party. He also has no trouble saying what he thinks. In my opinion he is the only politician that works on the premise of "common sense."

[denoir 0]

Vote Kerry or kill Michael J. Fox   Nice touch there.

[Blake 0]

Denoir LOL. Well it would appeal to the more emotional voters maybe ;)

Thx for McCain info Akira, I don't wonder why candidates refer to him so often then.

[Akira 0]

Vote Kerry or kill Michael J. Fox Nice touch there.

Don't forget Superman!

[denoir 0]

LMAO Bush: The Constitution doesn't say that. It says.. umm...ehh..errr.. um.. It doesn't say that.

[Akira 0]

So far, I think this is the only question that has truely brought out the candidates.

[denoir 0]

Weak closing statement from Kerry.

Overall Bush did much better than the last time. Kerry did ok too. Otherwise it was a pretty boring debate - it was basically a re-run of things we've heard.

[Akira 0]

First Thoughts:

Bush did surprisingly well. I expected him to flat line. Kerry did well as well. Neither one really nailed the other when they could. Hard to say, but I would have to give it to Bush.

The stem cell question was the only one where rhetoric and campaign catch phrases didn't come to play.

[denoir 0]

Bush blew it on the partial-abortions question. He could have exploited that much better by painting a picture.

Also he didn't come off very well with the "name 3 mistakes question".

Kerry on the other hand failed to fully exploit the latest WMD report. Also, I wasn't too impressed with his closing statement.

Neither of them made any serious errors though. Bush's "rumors on the internets" was good, but Kerry is still in the lead there with the "Treblinka Square" from the last debate.

[Blake 0]

Pretty boring it was, Bush was better than in the last one but Kerry dealt with the facts in a more deeper and convincing manner.

Iraq-discussion part was stagnated at the same level as in the first debated.

This time there was more about economy in detail in my opinion in which the numbers speak strongly. There was also much about ethic things which the two had very different views, emotion vs common sens things.

Bush was not a doormat this time but definately could have done better in terms of details of issues and new ideas. Hopefully people base their votes for facts and issues anyway, not presentation or charm in these debates.

[Akira 0]

Bush came off far more emotional and impetious in my mind, and to me that comes into play with the Iraq question, but whether or not people are going to come to the same conclusion is another question. People can easily say "I want a passionate president."

Kerry came off much cooler and calculated, thoughtful, and that will play for people as well. Someone who thinks to much and considers options as opposed to taking action, or someone who thinks things through and doesn't rush into action (ie Iraq).

Right now I just don't know.

EDIT: I'll also bring up the fact NEITHER concretely answered Gibson's repeated questions for the candidates to define just HOW they are going to reduce the debt by half.

[denoir 0]

The "drugs from Canada that might kill you" were a not-so convincing statement.

You have to love though how he without any hesitation used the findings of the new WMD report - brand new claims - retroactively to justify the war.

So the position is now: Saddam got rid of his WMD so that sanctions would be lifted so that he again in the future could pursue WMDs which he then in the future, if he managed to build them again could possibly give to terrorists that might use it against America.

I think he did a pretty good job at masking the absurdity.

[billybob2002 0]

How do you people feel about when Kerry said that war on terror is only bin laden and bush painted it has more than that...

Quote[/b] ]I'll also bring up the fact NEITHER concretely answered Gibson's repeated questions for the candidates to define just HOW they are going to reduce the debt by half.

Agreed! Bush should of hammered Kerry about that roll back. For example, Kerry said he wanted the "rich" tax brake to be rolled back to pay for that 87 billion and wants to also use it to fund his healthcare plan and etc. That rollback cannot pay for everything....

[red oct 2]

i was very dissapointed in the questions asked by the audiance. i think these were screened in Bush's favor so he wouldn't have anything difficulties that would put him in a very ugly position. there are so many questions that can and should have been asked

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]How do you people feel about when Kerry said that war on terror is only bin laden and bush painted it has more than that...

Kerry never said Bin Laden is the only target of the War on Terror, but I do agree that right now, he is the main objective, and the war in Iraq shifted the focus from that.

No I don't think the War On Terror is just Bin Laden, but he is the mastermind of 9/11, and anything that draws attention from him IS a distraction from the War on Terror. Despite what Bush tries to portray, the Iraq War had nothing to do with the war on terror until AFTER the war started. Then terrorist's poured in, and now it is indeed a major front of the war on terror.

"It's hard work"

Quote[/b] ]Agreed! Bush should of hammered Kerry about that roll back. For example, Kerry said he wanted the "rich" tax brake to be rolled back to pay for that 87 billion and wants to also use it to fund his healthcare plan and etc. That rollback cannot pay for everything....

As I stated, Bush didn't come up with ANY answer either.

[denoir 0]

How do you people feel about when Kerry said that war on terror is only bin laden and bush painted it has more than that...

I think Bush succeeded in making a point there, painting a wider picture. He didn't however try or manage to convince that Iraq was part of it.

The funniest part of the debate was when Kerry claimed that a timber company pays Bush.

Bush: I own a timber company?

Kerry: (awkward silence)

Bush (to moderator): You wanna buy some wood?´

[Akira 0]

i was very dissapointed in the questions asked by the audiance. i think these were screened in Bush's favor so he wouldn't have anything difficulties that would put him in a very ugly position. there are so many questions that can and should have been asked

The problem is the limited time, and the need to screen questions to look for the one's that are percieved to be the main questions on American's minds. Thats why Iraq and the war on terror were represented more than the enviroment and stem cell research.

[denoir 0]

MSNBC Poll

Over 400,000 replies, less than an hour after the debate ended. That's quite impressive.

Who won the debate?

Bush: 26%

Kerry: 74%

As I understand NBC is more right than left. It's not a meaningful poll though in American context as non-Americans can vote too and they tend to be strongly anti-Bush. On the other hand it's internationally an awkward time (5 in the morning in Europe for instance), so the majority are probably Americans.

It's interesting that the last round, with over 2 million responding to the poll:

Who won the debate (October 1st):

Bush: 39%

Kerry: 61%

So more people seem to think that Kerry won now than the last debate.

[miles teg 1]

One area where Bush could have made a decicive kill in the debate was when Kerry mentioned how whats needed to win this war on terorrism is better intelligence capability.  Bush could have given Kerry a fatal blow by talking about how Kerry voted against one of the intelligence funding bills that I believe was after 9/11 if I remember correctly.  

I have yet to hear Kerry defend against that particular vote.

I was like "Oh shit...he made a fatal error".   But then to my surprise Bush didn't bite and failed to inflict the fatal blow to his opponent.

Kerry got Bush pretty good on the enviornment however.  But to be fair...most conservatives I know don't care much about enviornmental issues when it hurts corporate profits so I don't think Bush lost too many votes from Kerry talking about Bush's horrific enviornmental record (which every major enviornmental group in America gives Bush extremely poor ratings on).  

Overall I thought Bush did better..he was more aggressive and didn't look like a little gremlin so much like he did in the first debate.  

Sadly American voters often decided on such things as how a president looks so even little things like this matter.   I also have to admit that Bush was funnier.

But on the other hand Kerry seemed much more elequent especially on the abortion issue where he did a brilliant job about stating his position on abortion and why he voted against certain bills on abortion.  I think Bush kinda messed up there by saying basically that it was a black and white decision when Kerry just got finished explaining the problems with the partial birth abortion ban and the bills to make it mandatory to inform parents if their child is pregnant and is considering an abortion. So much for compassionate conservatism.

Bush talked about how ethics were so important to him but he obviously had not put a lot of thought into the complexities of the ethics involved in the abortion issue especially when it comes to cases involving a woman's health, cases of known catastrophic defects in the fetus, teen age rape victims, ect...

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]As I understand NBC is more right than left. It's not a meaningful poll though in American context as non-Americans can vote too and they tend to be strongly anti-Bush. On the other hand it's internationally an awkward time (5 in the morning in Europe for instance), so the majority are probably Americans.

Anybody can vote in that poll...

[walker 0]

Hi all

Kerry won by about 15 to 12. It was a lot closer than the last debate. Bush lost where he lost his cool and and shouted. He also lost on the partial birth abortion question.

Kerry could have won more if he had said more on the massive tax hike the TBA has left America with in the form of defecit. Which is 26% and rising tax hike for every US citizne for the next 25 years that is just sitting there in bankers loans getting bigger by the minute under TBA.

George Bush Junior lost some votes when he lost his cool and ignored the moderator there is no chance looking presedential when you do that. People will worry that his temper will get the better of him in other situations say foreign relations or trade talks. A bad temper when someone is doing a deal for a new factory or keeping an old factory in the US will loose people jobs.

Kerry won the stem cell debate for his stallwarts and when his oponent said he aproved the use of embryonic stem cells to right to lifer that was a very bad move. It will pull in a few of the undecideds to Kerry and probably have lost TBA some of the Pro Lifers who will now probably vote none of the above.

Kerry won the abortion debate where George Bush Junior says that a girl Raped by her father has to ask the father who raped her's permission for an abortion and where a woman may not have an abortion if the pregnancy is a threat to her life. Probably worth a few votes.

Kind Regards Walker

[sputnik monroe 102]

Walker your post are hilarious. Your post read like you're talking to your self in a mirror.

Walker to mirror:" Hi mirror image.

This is what happened, it is as I say. Kerry won the debate by my decree. My decree is the gospel. Bush lost his cool, he also lost on the partial birth abortion question. Why? Because I say so.

George lost votes when he lost his cool. Why? Because I say so again silly. People will worry about his temper. Why? Once again because I decree they will.

Full of himself Walker"

HOnestly though, why do you post like that? Do you even read your post before you hit add reply? They all read that way. " This is how it is, every one's going to do this this is the outcome." etc and further claims. All with out any substantial proof other than that is what you believe.

Maybe your post would come across better if you posted as a human. For exampe...

Actual walker post: "Kerry won by about 15 to 12. It was a lot closer than the last debate."

Suggestion of how you could of worded that without coming across as a meglomaniac "In my opinion Kerry won by about 15 to 12. I think It was a lot closer than the last debate. "

If you have hard proof on something go ahead and post it as fact. I personally think though that posting "your" opinion as the gospel Example "Kerry won by about 15 to 12" is detrimental to the discussion.

Can you imagine if every one posted as you do? I could come in and say stuff like, " Hi all, Bush won by about 55 to 48. Kerry lost because he smiled to much which makes every one think he's stoned". See what I mean? Total BS, where is my proof? I don't have any it's simply a stupid opinion pulled out of my ass, much like all of your post.

Any how just thought I'd speak my mind. Some ones got to tell you. You may be right half of the time walker, but when you post it in the manner you did no ones going to give it any credence because you end up coming across as a meglomaniac.