Us presidential election 2004

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

Ummm, no, he's not saying you can't learn from your experiences; he's saying if you already know the pain and suffering caused to other people, but dont care about that UNTIL it affects you personally, you are a hypocrite.

Not sure personally hypocrite is the right word, but its certainly not an ignorant position.

[kerosene 0]

"Better go tell the Russians they can't have a democracy.

Better tell the Americans they are still subjects of the British Empire.

Better tell the Germans to start killing jews again."

Germans at the end of WW2 who changed there mind about HItler and Nazism probably did it out of disgust at what had been done, rather than limited self-interest.

Americans kicked the british out and set up their own country, they didnt change their mind about being british subjects - they were never given a choice in the matter to begin with. - they didnt learn form a mistake.

Much like the majority of russians had no ability to chose what kind of government they had for a very long time without risking death.

"Better tell your mama you want candy or you'll cry." - not gonna come up with a response to this one cause its moronic.

See, what im talking about is somone who got access to all the relevant information on a subject, makes a decision publicly promotes it, and changes there mind only when it impacts them.  Parhaps hypocritical is the wrong word, but it points to a certain level of selfishness. i.e - im unable to empathise with any one elses suffering unless it personally affects me.

So if your argument switches from "ban stem-cell research cause cutting up dead babies is gross, to, my husband got alzhemiers and ive changed my mind."  

Its not like she changed her position because she thought it was awful that thousands of people die each year and an entire avenue of research was wiullfully obstructed by the government.

[denoir 0]

The odds are that until it happens to you, you don't know much about it. When it affects you personally, then you get informed.

Nothing wrong with that IMO. You can't go around worrying about everything wrong on this planet.

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

The odds are that until it happens to you, you don't know much about it. When it affects you personally, then you get informed.

Nothing wrong with that IMO. You can't go around worrying about everything wrong on this planet.

No, of course not. What is wrong though is those people who don't know anything about it (be it stem cell research or anything else) causing policy decisions which do affect everyone else.

[walker 0]

Hi all

John F. Kerry and John Edwards are looking to bring America back to the Democratic Golden Age of a thriving economy, an afluent middle class, a stable and rising Job market, with affordable health care and a country that no longer lives in fear of terrorist attacks by strengthening defence and improving foreign relations.

The chance for the US to once again be united, safe and wealthy as it was under successful Clinton presidency are the things the US voter is looking for.

With John Edwards the US will have a Vibrant Crusading Vice President who has always stuck up for the little man against corporate bullies and their giant law firms.

John F. Kerry the Vietnam War Veteran and hero is the kind of leader who inspires the millitary and assures the citizens of the US of a nation strong in defence and firmly lead. His wealth of experience and knowledge will give the US an inteligent President with strong values and an understanding of the world.

The John F. Kerry Presidency will bring about a presidency which will work for the nation and many are comparing this future Presidency of John F. Kerry to that of John F. Kennedy which was famously described as the Court of Camalot.

Like John F. Kennedy, John F. Kerry is a war hero from a strong moral family and like John F. Kennedy's brother Robert, who was his attorney general, John Edwards is a lawyer who crusades against corruption: Robert Kennedy campaigned against the Mob and John Edwards fights for little man against the giant coporate syndicates and their armies of lawyers.

I for one am looking forward to once more united, safer and richer US under the Presidency of John F. Kerry.

Kind Regards Walker

[denoir 0]

The odds are that until it happens to you, you don't know much about it. When it affects you personally, then you get informed.

Nothing wrong with that IMO. You can't go around worrying about everything wrong on this planet.

No, of course not.  What is wrong though is those people who don't know anything about it (be it stem cell research or anything else) causing policy decisions which do affect everyone else.

Absolutely, but that reflects on her a priori statements, before she became familiar with the topic (although I don't know of any statements by Nancy against stem cell research).

I'm saying that now one can't hold it against her that she read up on the subject and formed and informed opinion.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]The John F. Kerry Presidency will bring about a presidency which will work for the nation and many are comparing this future Presidency of John F. Kerry to that of John F. Kennedy which was famously described as the Court of Camalot.

Like John F. Kennedy, John F. Kerry is a war hero from a strong moral family and like John F. Kennedy's brother Robert, who was his attorney general, John Edwards is a lawyer who crusades against corruption: Robert Kennedy campaigned against the Mob and John Edwards fights for little man against the giant coporate syndicates and their armies of lawyers.

I think you are going a little overboard comparing Kerry and Kennedy...

[walker 0]

Hi billybob2002

The comparison of John F. Kerry to Jonh F. Kennedy is a perfectly valid: both war heroes, both intelligent with an understanding of the world, both strong on the nations defence, both joined the fight against corruption and crime, both charismatic leaders who can unite the nation, both hard working in the service of the nation, both joined by crusading political colleagues who can help right and heal the nation and provide a strong succession for a continuing democratic leadership.

Kind Regards Walker

[joltan 0]

Walker, while I don't nescessarily disagree with Kerry being the better choice you're blind devotion is rather contraproductive. This kind of propaganda is not even believable for perople who do support him... Tone down a bit, please, before it gets boring & annoying.

[Schoeler 0]

"Better go tell the Russians they can't have a democracy.

Better tell the Americans they are still subjects of the British Empire.

Better tell the Germans to start killing jews again."

Germans at the end of WW2 who changed there mind about HItler and Nazism probably did it out of disgust at what had been done, rather than limited self-interest.

Americans kicked the british out and set up their own country, they didnt change their mind about being british subjects - they were never given a choice in the matter to begin with. - they didnt learn form a mistake.

Much like the majority of russians had no ability to chose what kind of government they had for a very long time without risking death.

"Better tell your mama you want candy or you'll cry." - not gonna come up with a response to this one cause its moronic.

See, what im talking about is somone who got access to all the relevant information on a subject, makes a decision publicly promotes it, and changes there mind only when it impacts them.  Parhaps hypocritical is the wrong word, but it points to a certain level of selfishness. i.e - im unable to empathise with any one elses suffering unless it personally affects me.

So if your argument switches from "ban stem-cell research cause cutting up dead babies is gross, to, my husband got alzhemiers and ive changed my mind."  

Its not like she changed her position because she thought it was awful that thousands of people die each year and an entire avenue of research was wiullfully obstructed by the government.

You are still missing the point.

People have the ability to change their point of view and their feelings on any subject. A change in point of view usually follows a life-changing experience or comes with increased education.

Might it not be concievable, and I know this is an amazing and far-fetched logical stretch here, that the Reagans changed their point of view on stem cell research because of a life-changing experience and/or, further education on the matter. **scratches head** Gee, I don't know.

In all my examples, people changed their point of view for whatever reason, be it selfish or selfless, based upon life experience, or upon further education.

The Americans established the colonies as loyal British subjects. Some profound life-changing experiences changed their point of view and changed their loyalty to the crown.

The Russians had a revolution to establish Bolshevism. By 1989, life experience and education into the feasibility of the communist system caused many of them to change their point of view.

The Germans under the Third Reich had no reservations as to slaughtering jews. By 1945, that viewpoint had changed.

YOU, probably used to cry to get your mother to give you the things you wanted. I know I certainly did. Life experience and education changed my point of view about using this tactic for my own material gain, as I hope it did for you as well.

MY point is that people often have a point of view and a set of beliefs based upon the relevant information they possess thus far. That isn't to say their conception of the world and the things that fit into their moral framework are never subject to change as you suggested. If a persons knowledge is expanded via a life-changing experience, or further education, you can hardly call them hypocritical for changing their point of view.

Using your narrow logic, every student in the world and every grown adult would have to be labeled a hypocrit, as I'm sure all of us have expanded our point of view on a number of subjects over the course of our lives.

[walker 0]

Hi Joltan

Political discusion should be inspirational as well as dialectic so I think it perfectly reasonable to do a piece with a positive light there is a lot of good that can be said about the Future Presidency of John F. Kerry and comparison John F. Kennedy is reasonable.

Have a look at John F. Kerry's Biography it reads like a best seller or hollywood film much as John F. Kennedy's did.

Quote[/b] ]John F. Kerry was born on December 11, 1943 at Fitzsimons Army Hospital in Colorado. His father, Richard, volunteered in the Army Air Corps and flew DC-3's and B-29's as a test pilot during World War II. His mother, Rosemary, was a lifelong community activist and devoted parent. She was a Girl Scout leader for 50 years, and one of her proudest possessions was her 50 year Girl Scout pin. She was an environmentalist and a community activist.

Not long after John Kerry was born, the family settled in Massachusetts. Growing up there, his parents taught him the values of service and responsibility and the blessings of his Catholic faith, lessons John Kerry carries with him to this day.

Because his father was a Foreign Service Officer in the Eisenhower administration, John Kerry traveled a lot when he was young. On these trips, he learned firsthand what makes America a leader in the world - our optimism and our democratic values. And he learned that nations across the world share many common goals and that the best way to achieve them is through building strong alliances.

As he was graduating from Yale, John Kerry volunteered to serve in Vietnam, because, as he later said, "it was the right thing to do." He believed that “to whom much is given, much is required.†And he felt he had an obligation to give something back to his country. John Kerry served two tours of duty. On his second tour, he volunteered to serve on a Swift Boat in the river deltas, one of the most dangerous assignments of the war. His leadership, courage, and sacrifice earned him a Silver Star, a Bronze Star with Combat V, and three Purple Hearts.

But John Kerry's wartime experience taught him a painful lesson that he could not forget, even after he returned home. In the midst of battle, he had seen the lives of his fellow soldiers, his friends, put at risk because some leaders in Washington were making bad decisions. He decided he had a responsibility to his friends still serving, the friends he had lost, and his country, to help restore responsible leadership in America.

So he decided to become active as a Vietnam Veteran Against the War (VVAW). He became a spokesman for VVAW and later co-founded Vietnam Veterans of America. Only 27 years old, John Kerry sounded this call to reason in April 1971 when he testified before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and posed the powerful question, "How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?"

Later, John Kerry accepted another tour of duty - to serve in America's communities. After graduating from Boston College Law School in 1976, John Kerry went to work as a top prosecutor in Middlesex County, Massachusetts. He took on organized crime and put behind bars "one of the state's most notorious gangsters, the number two organized crime figure in New England." He fought for victims' rights and created programs for rape counseling.

John Kerry was elected Lieutenant Governor in 1982. In that office, he organized the nation's Governors to combat the acid rain that was polluting lakes, rivers, and the nation's water supply. Two years later, he was elected to the United States Senate and he has won reelection three-times since. He is now serving his fourth term, after winning again in 2002.

John Kerry entered the Senate with a reputation as a man of conviction. He confirmed that reputation by taking bold decisions on important issues. He helped provide health insurance for millions of low-income children. He has fought to improve public education, protect our natural environment, and strengthen our economy. He has been praised as one of the leading environmentalists in the Senate, who stopped the Bush-Cheney plan to drill in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.

John Kerry has never forgotten the lessons he learned as a young man – lessons that have been strengthened in his 19 years on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. He has learned that America must work with other countries to achieve our goals and the world's common goals. From his ground-breaking work on the Iran-Contra scandal to his leadership on global AIDS, John Kerry has distinguished himself as one of our nation's most respected voices on national security and international affairs.

As chairman of the Senate Select Committee on POW/MIA Affairs, he worked closely with John McCain to learn the truth about American soldiers missing in Vietnam and to normalize relations with that country. As the ranking Democrat on the East Asian and Pacific Affairs Subcommittee, he is a leading expert on that region, including North Korea.

Years before September 11th, John Kerry wrote The New War, an in-depth study of America's national security in the 21st Century. He worked on a bipartisan basis to craft the American response to September 11th and has been a leading voice on American policy in Iraq and Afghanistan, the war on terrorism, the Middle East peace process and Israel's security.

John Kerry would not be running today if it were not for the enthusiastic support of his family. He is married to Teresa Heinz Kerry, and they have a blended family that includes two daughters, three sons, one grandchild, and a German Shepard named Cym.

http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/bio.html

Clearly John F. Kerry is the kind of president to reunite a divided nation.

That I am positive about him well it is down to my need like many others to feel the US is once agin in a safe pair of hands.

Kind Regards Walker

[billybob2002 0]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tm....ve_it_7

Quote[/b] ]

Democrats Defend Heinz Kerry's 'Shove It'

Mon Jul 26, 4:41 PM ET  

By PETER JACKSON, Associated Press Writer

BOSTON - Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry (news - web sites) doesn't have a problem with his wife telling an insistent journalist to "shove it" when urged to explain her plea for more civility in politics. Neither does Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (news - web sites).

"I think my wife speaks her mind appropriately," Kerry told reporters Monday when asked about the exchange between his wife, Teresa Heinz Kerry, and the editorial page editor of the conservative Pittsburgh Tribune-Review.

Asked about the response on CNN's "American Morning," Clinton said Monday, "A lot of Americans are going to say, 'Good for you, you go, girl,' and that's certainly how I feel about it."

Heinz Kerry attended a Massachusetts Statehouse reception Sunday night for fellow Pennsylvanians, telling them, "We need to turn back some of the creeping, un-Pennsylvanian and sometimes un-American traits that are coming into some of our politics." She criticized the tenor of modern political campaigns without being specific.

Minutes later, the Tribune-Review's Colin McNickle questioned Heinz Kerry on what she meant by the term "un-American," according to a tape of the encounter recorded by Pittsburgh television station WTAE.

Heinz Kerry said "I didn't say that" several times to McNickle. She then turned to confer with Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell and others. When she faced McNickle again a short time later, he continued to question her, and she replied: "You said something I didn't say. Now shove it."

She is on tape saying un-american but she too afraid to define it and gives out a insult ( ). I wonder what kind of first lady she would be like if Kerry wins. She is just like Kerry, flip-flopper.....

Edit: It seems they gave Gore some prozac so he will not act crazy on national tv....(talking about DNC) Seems like they (democrats) are trying to show themselves has moderates to the undecided voter (and middle america)....which is BS....GOP is probably going to do the same thing during their convention... God Bless, America!!!

[bn880 5]

Was just watching the US Democratic convention, Clinton was pretty damn good!

That good ole perv.

[walker 0]

Hi all

I thought Jimmy Carter's speach was very good too here is an exerpt:

Quote[/b] ]Former president Jimmy Carter, who spoke after Gore, said he was confident that Kerry would "restore the judgment and maturity to our government that nowadays is sorely lacking." As a former naval officer, Kerry "showed up when assigned to duty," Carter, who also was a naval officer, said.

Under Bush, "the United States has alienated its allies, dismayed its friends, and inadvertently gratified its enemies by proclaiming a confused and disturbing strategy of 'preemptive' war," Carter, who won the Nobel Peace Prize two years ago, told the convention. "In the world at large, we cannot lead if our leaders mislead."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A15605-2004Jul26.html

Clearly the US needs to unite behind a fresh strong leadership that can renew America's image abroad. John F. Kerry like John F. Kennedy before him can envigorate the US to a new vision of strong values to lead it forward once more.

Kind Regards Walker

[denoir 0]

Was just watching the US Democratic convention, Clinton was pretty damn good!  

Yepp. Too bad he can't run again. Kerry is truly nothing compared to him - at least as far as charisma goes. +

What a trade down America did in 2000 - from an intelligent idealist to a chimp in a suit working for special interest groups.

[Schoeler 0]

She is just like Kerry, flip-flopper.....

Would you care to support this statement with an argument, or, God forbid, some evidence, or are you going to act like the rest of the Republican party this election and be satisfied enough with the accusation itself?

[denoir 0]

She is on tape saying un-american but she too afraid to define it and gives out a insult ( ). I wonder what kind of first lady she would be like if Kerry wins.

While I'm not too fond of the word "un-american", she redeemed herself in my eyes with the "shove it" comment. Of course it ain't quite as vice-presidential as "go fuck yourself", but it's a step in the right direction.

[Balschoiw 0]

Don´t forget that she is not used to all that stuff.

Well Bush´s wife hasn´t said much in all those years , has she ?    I wonder why.

And back on topic, you don´t elect the first lady but the president I guess and judged by the verbal "competence" of Mr B. from T. I would hold my breath if you try to put down the wife of his opponent.

I did like Carters speech a lot. He has a universal sense and he voiced that very clearly. Well done.

[walker 0]

She is on tape saying un-american

Hi billybob2002

You have said this but you have not supported this statement with the recording of the speech. Please come up with the recording of the speech.

Kind Regards Walker

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Hi billybob2002

You have said this but you have not supported this statement with the recording of the speech. Please come up with the recording of the speech.

Kind Regards Walker

Cannot find a recording but all the news website quote her has saying that.... (I heard the tape thingy on local news...)

Quote[/b] ]

Would you care to support this statement with an argument, or, God forbid, some evidence, or are you going to act like the rest of the Republican party this election and be satisfied enough with the accusation itself?

Denying that she said un-american and she did....

Edit:

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/trib/news/s_205302.html

Quote[/b] ]

"Reporters wanted to know what she meant. Colin asked -- in an aggressive but not unusual manner. ... He was behaving like a reporter," said political reporter Peter L. DeCoursey of The Patriot-News in Harrisburg.

"She only got mad when she read his badge, when she read the words 'Tribune-Review,'" DeCoursey said.

[Balschoiw 0]

Hey Mr. billybob. What´s the freakin deal about it anyway or did you ride the bullet when Cheney voiced his halleluja lately ? You should have done Mr Billybob as Cheney IS vice president of the US of A and therefore you should still fall of your chair in a loop when I see what you try to make up here.

It´s funny what nonsense Bush´s worshippers are humping on when they fail to argue factual.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Hey Mr. billybob. What´s the freakin deal about it anyway or did you ride the bullet when Cheney voiced his halleluja lately ? You should have done Mr Billybob as Cheney IS vice president of the US of A and therefore you should still fall of your chair in a loop when I see what you try to make up here.

It´s funny what nonsense Bush´s worshippers are humping on when they fail to argue factual.

1. she did say un-american. Newspapers quote this has being fact.

2. few minutes later she asked what is "un-american".

3. she denies saying it but she did say it.

4. asked again and again but she still does not give a explanation.

5. she tells the reporter to "shove it".

6. I would like to know what "un-american" used in her context.

7. The cheney esp. is different from Heinz because the senator was nice in cheney's face but said negative things behind his back...

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]Hey Mr. billybob. What´s the freakin deal about it anyway or did you ride the bullet when Cheney voiced his halleluja lately ? You should have done Mr Billybob as Cheney IS vice president of the US of A and therefore you should still fall of your chair in a loop when I see what you try to make up here.

It´s funny what nonsense Bush´s worshippers are humping on when they fail to argue factual.

1. she did say un-american. Newspapers quote this has being fact.

2. few minutes later she asked what is "un-american".

3. she denies saying it but she did say it.

4. asked again and again but she still does not give a explanation.

5. she tells the reporter to "shove it".

6. I would like to know what "un-american" used in her context.

7. The cheney esp. is different from Heinz because the senator was nice in cheney's face but said negative things behind his back...

1. Cheney still says "Fuck Off" and you make allowances for it (and this to a senator in a senate chamber)

2. Heinz says "Shove it" to a reporter. (hardly Fuck off)

3. Big whoopty fucking do. More Republican bullshit. They can't find anything else to attack so they attack "Shove it". Wonderful hypocrisy in light of the "Fuck off" statement.

4. Only reason media is making a big deal about it is someone finally spoke their mind and told the media what to do with themselves.

5. If only everyone else actually spoke their mind.

6. If this is the best people can come up with why not to vote for Kerry, makes you wonder just what exactly Bush has to offer.

7. Cheney is on tape saying there is a direct link to AQ and Iraq. And he is on tape saying he never said that. So which is it?

Where is your rightous indignation there?

[walker 0]

Quote[/b] ]Hi billybob2002

You have said this but you have not supported this statement with the recording of the speech. Please come up with the recording of the speech.

Kind Regards Walker

Cannot find a recording but all the news website quote her has saying that.... (I heard the tape thingy on local news...)

Hi billybob2002

I think you need to come up with tape of the speech.

I have done a thourough hunt and cannot find one any where.

Could you tell me the Radio station you heard it on?

However like many others I think it perfectly reasonable to tell a reporter to shove it when he is being as obnoxious as that particular one was. Shove it is not swearing after all.

Kind Regards Walker

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]1. Cheney still says "Fuck Off" and you make allowances for it (and this to a senator in a senate chamber)

2. Heinz says "Shove it" to a reporter. (hardly Fuck off)

3. Big whoopty fucking do. More Republican bullshit. They can't find anything else to attack so they attack "Shove it". Wonderful hypocrisy in light of the "Fuck off" statement.

4. Only reason media is making a big deal about it is someone finally spoke their mind and told the media what to do with themselves.

5. If only everyone else actually spoke their mind.

6. If this is the best people can come up with why not to vote for Kerry, makes you wonder just what exactly Bush has to offer.

7. Cheney is on tape saying there is a direct link to AQ and Iraq. And he is on tape saying he never said that. So which is it?

Where is your rightous indignation there?

1. I never said this is my reason not to vote for Kerry.

2. Walker is already doing the job of blasting the fuck you comment.

3. Who are you calling Republican....

4. You can say Cheney finally spoke his mind...

5. Cheney did make himself look like a fool like Kerry's wife..

Quote[/b] ]Could you tell me the Radio station you heard it on?

The local television station did a short blur on it and said she was on tape. Anyway, the newspapers are quoting this has fact.