cozza 24 Posted February 22, 2004 2020 It 2004 now and i'm 15. When the world gets killed I'll be in my thirtys. I faided maths at school so i dont know the answer Guess Flashpoint 5 is not coming out then Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sneaky 0 Posted February 23, 2004 k, if you really want to believe what the bible says, then I think you should read the whole thing while youre at it Jesus says very clearly that no one knows the time when it will happen (harmageddon), only god do. (Matthew 24:36) So, if some says "thats the day it will happen", you can be pretty sure that it would not happen then It will happen when noone expects it. Be afraid. Be very afraid (its gonna happen tomorrow! aaahhhh!) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0 Posted February 23, 2004 k, if you really want to believe what the bible says, then I think you should read the whole thing while youre at it Jesus says very clearly that no one knows the time when it will happen (harmageddon), only god do. (Matthew 24:36) So, if some says "thats the day it will happen", you can be pretty sure that it would not happen then It will happen when noone expects it. Be afraid. Be very afraid (its gonna happen tomorrow! aaahhhh!) He also said he'd be back before his original followers were dead, so he's not a very reliable source, is he. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sneaky 0 Posted February 23, 2004 you wouldnt care to find the exact location of that verse, hmm? But if you dont believe in the bible, I see no point in worrying about this at all, as it all becomes irrelevant. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0 Posted February 24, 2004 you wouldnt care to find the exact location of that verse, hmm?But if you dont believe in the bible, I see no point in worrying about this at all, as it all becomes irrelevant. You wouldn't care to read it yourself, would you? Surely not! A christian who hasn't read his own holy book? I've never heard of such a thing! [/sarcasm] I don't believe in god because I don't believe in mother goose - Clarence Darrow The bible is so utterly riddled with contradictions I am honestly amazed that anyone can take it seriously. Even a cursory reading as a child made me think 'what a load of nonsense' - which was reinforced when I read it properly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sneaky 0 Posted February 24, 2004 hmmm.... neither of us can find it in the bible? strange isnt it? and thanks a lot for the respect Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted February 24, 2004 you wouldnt care to find the exact location of that verse, hmm? I think he's referring to Matthew 24:34 Quote[/b] ]Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place. Luke 21:32 Quote[/b] ]Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. 1 Corinthians 7:29 Quote[/b] ]But this I say, brethren, the time is short 1 Thessalonians 4:15 Quote[/b] ]For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. But, hey, this ain't up my alley. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedyDonkey 0 Posted February 24, 2004 Hi! Interesting discussion! Okay, i'll add some stuff, just for the record Quote[/b] ]Matthew 24:34Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place. Im afraid you forgot to write the verses before 34. Quote[/b] ]Matthew 24:32) Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When it's branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33) So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near - at the doors. The fig tree symbolizes the state of Israel. And "When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves" symbolizes Its (Israel) restoration (1948) As for the "bible code" Well i haven't read it, and cant comment on that. But im a bit sceptic  Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted February 24, 2004 The fig tree symbolizes the state of Israel. And "When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves" symbolizes Its (Israel) restoration (1948) That's very poetic. Was this interpretation given in the year 49 or 1949 and by whom? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Colossus 2 Posted February 24, 2004 Let me say this: THE END IS NEAR, RUN !! Yea right.. For some the armagedon was in 2000 and to some year 1900. Is it the end now? Come on! Lets face it Americans, there is no God. Evolution, people. Where is the dinosaurs in the bible ? PS: Still respect religions Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted February 24, 2004 Evolution, people. Where is the dinosaurs in the bible ? Ask the Rabbi. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Colossus 2 Posted February 24, 2004 Quote[/b] ]It has been suggested that G-d placed fossils in the ground as a test of our faith Everything we really don't understand or can't explane is made by God. It dosent prove anything. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
denoir 0 Posted February 24, 2004 A classical example Avon. In this case the religious text in question has to be (according to the Rabbi) be interpreted But doesn’t the apparent age of the dinosaurs contradict the Torah? Well, to claim so, one would have to claim to understand what the Torah actually means with its account of Creation. But this raises many matters of interpretation; for example, how do you measure a "day" when the sun is only created on the fourth one? How do you determine the flow of time when it varies depending on how near you are to objects of large gravitational mass? Since we have so little understanding of these matters, how can dinosaurs frighten us? And in the next instance he'll be claiming that the same religious text can be used to set up guidlines for living and even predicting to future. Make up your mind! Either the Bible/Torah/etc are difficult or impossible to interpret or they predict things in an understandable manner. You can't have it both ways. This is typical of religions as well as pseudo-sciences. You only select the examples that fit your theory and the other ones you ignore. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted February 24, 2004 Quote[/b] ]It has been suggested that G-d placed fossils in the ground as a test of our faith Everything we really don't understand or can't explane is made by God. It dosent prove anything. It wasn't meant to prove anything other than there's no conflict between the Bible and the fact that dinosaurs roamed the earth. Can you find me a reference to penguins in the Bible? No. So what does that disprove? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted February 24, 2004 A classical example Avon. In this case the religious text in question has to be (according to the Rabbi) be interpreted But doesn’t the apparent age of the dinosaurs contradict the Torah? Well, to claim so, one would have to claim to understand what the Torah actually means with its account of Creation. But this raises many matters of interpretation; for example, how do you measure a "day" when the sun is only created on the fourth one? How do you determine the flow of time when it varies depending on how near you are to objects of large gravitational mass? Since we have so little understanding of these matters, how can dinosaurs frighten us? And in the next instance he'll be claiming that the same religious text can be used to set up guidlines for living and even predicting to future. Make up your mind! Either the Bible/Torah/etc are difficult or impossible to interpret or they predict things in an understandable manner. You can't have it both ways. The Bible devotes a very small chapter to the entire creation process. The entire points of the article was that it's fictitious and dishonest to state that dinosaurs contradict anything mentioned in the creation process. I don't see the problem here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedyDonkey 0 Posted February 24, 2004 Quote[/b] ]Is the 1948 establishment of the nation of Israel the blossoming fig tree?There is little doubt among Bible scholars that the establishment of the State of Israel, on May 14, 1948, is the fulfillment of the prophecy of the fig tree. Throughout the Bible, Israel is referred to as the fig tree. Hosea 9:10 says, “When I found Israel, it was like finding grapes in the desert; when I saw your fathers, it was like seeing the early fruit on the fig tree.†After describing His return, in Matthew 24:32-34, Jesus says this: “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. I tell you the truth, this generation will not pass away until all theses things have happened.†Most agree that this says that the generation of people who witness the fig tree bearing leaves (Israel becoming a nation) will not pass away until the Son of Man returns. link1 link 2 Obviously, everyone is allowed to belive / not belive whatever they want. And i find some of the comments on this forum a bit too harsh! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
denoir 0 Posted February 24, 2004 The entire points of the article was that it's fictitious and dishonest to state that dinosaurs contradict anything mentioned in the creation process.I don't see the problem here. It does actually, it contradicts the age of the Earth specified by the creationist theory. And to that the dear Rabbi resorts to the "we really can't understand the things written in the Torah". Basically he avoids blaming the source text by saying that it is impossible to interpret correctly. At the same time I'm sure he is very willing to give out life-style advice to people based on that very same text that he a minute ago claimed not to understand. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted February 24, 2004 And i find some of the comments on this forum a bit too harsh! If you are referring to me, then my apologies. I will cease. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedyDonkey 0 Posted February 24, 2004 And i find some of the comments on this forum a bit too harsh! If you are referring to me ... Nope  /apologies accepted anyway  Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted February 24, 2004 It does actually, it contradicts the age of the Earth specified by the creationist theory. And to that the dear Rabbi resorts to the "we really can't understand the things written in the Torah". Basically he avoids blaming the source text by saying that it is impossible to interpret correctly. I don't see the problem or contradiction here. Maybe because this is news to you. I learned it in school in childhood. Quote[/b] ]At the same time I'm sure he is very willing to give out life-style advice to people based on that very same text that he a minute ago claimed not to understand. I'm afraid I (again) don't understand your point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted February 24, 2004 And i find some of the comments on this forum a bit too harsh! If you are referring to me ... Nope  OK, then back to the fig trees. Both of your links appear to be modern interpretations. Did any early Christian theologians offer the same explanations? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
denoir 0 Posted February 24, 2004 It's very simple. In one instance the religious text is deemed to be understandable enough to predict the future and tell people how to live while in another it is said to be impossible to interpret. The Rabbi says: Quote[/b] ]But doesn’t the apparent age of the dinosaurs contradict the Torah? Well, to claim so, one would have to claim to understand what the Torah actually means with its account of Creation. But this raises many matters of interpretation; for example, how do you measure a "day" when the sun is only created on the fourth one? How do you determine the flow of time when it varies depending on how near you are to objects of large gravitational mass? Since we have so little understanding of these matters, how can dinosaurs frighten us? Here he clearly says that interpreting the Torah is impossible since we have too little understanding. If it impossible to interpret like he says then how can you go and telling people how to live based on a text you don't understand? Either the Torah/Bible is clear on what it means (and should be able to give a plausible explanation to the age of the Earth contradiction) or it is not suitable for setting guidelines for how its followers should live. Either you understand what's in it or you don't. And this is very typical of religions. When things don't go your way then "God works in mysterious ways" while when everything is peachy then it's because it was predicted/said in the religious texts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TopCover 0 Posted February 24, 2004 Hmm to get back on 2012... Isnt somewhere around may 2012 the date that all the planets in our solar system are aligned? I could be way off here ,but i recall something about that date period. Somebody with an astronomy program care to check? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted February 24, 2004 It's very simple. In one instance the religious text is deemed to be understandable enough to predict the future and tell people how to live while in another it is said to be impossible to interpret. No. The Bible doesn't delve into the minute details of creation. It does delve into humanity's behavior and obligations. It is not "impossible to interpret". It is difficult to interpret for the very simple reaosn that the Bible does not offer us a detailed lesson in the history of creation. In this particular case, the point was that there is no contradiction between the Bible's verses on creation and the existence of dinosaurs. No offense but to me you're pretty vague yourself right now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedyDonkey 0 Posted February 24, 2004 Quote[/b] ]Both of your links appear to be modern interpretations. Did any early Christian theologians offer the same explanations? To be honest, i don't know. I haven't looked into it. Interesting question though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
