The Iraq thread 3

[Veovis 0]

Quote[/b] ]You talk of responsibility ? Guess who has the responsibility for the things that happen in Iraq today.

Today? I would have to say... the terrorists.

Quote[/b] ]And your point is ?

Her point is that they weren't killed sitting in a camp.

[theavonlady 2]

Quote[/b] ]You talk of responsibility ? Guess who has the responsibility for the things that happen in Iraq today.

Today? I would have to say... the terrorists.

Quote[/b] ]And your point is ?

Her point is that they weren't killed sitting in a camp.

Thank you.

And as far as responsibility, I don't disagree. That's why I said everyone should make up their minds - that includes both the US and Iraq.

If Iraq wants the US to get out fast, then so long. If they want them to stay and help, they have a very funny way of saying it sometimes.

[Balschoiw 0]

One moment please. This should be rather interesting for both of you:

Quote[/b] ]Explosions and shelling shook Fallujah, 40 miles west of Baghdad, as armed men ran through the streets, witnesses said. Residents said U.S. forces were shelling from positions outside the city and helicopters were in the skies, but the U.S. military could not immediately be reached for comment.

One Marine helicopter made an emergency landing, but no one was wounded.

U.S. forces manning a checkpoint opened fire on a local government convoy that included Fallujah's mayor and police chief, who were trying to meet the Americans to discuss the violence, an Iraqi police lieutenant said on condition of anonymity. The convoy turned back, and no injuries were reported.

A motorist who drove through Fallujah Thursday morning said Iraqi police and insurgents were cooperating, chatting amicably along the streets, and seemed to be working together.

So what are we talking about now ?

Terrorists or insurgents ?

Where did the 3 soldiers get killed ?

I can only confirm 2 soldiers who got killed near Baqouba. I don´t know what they were doing there, do you ? Where they on a convoi ? At a checkpoint ? On patrol ?

You tell me as you seem to know it.

Another one was killed in Mosul. Details ? Negative.

Let´s compare this to the numbers of Iraqi deaths today. Up to now we have at least 69 confirmed killed Iraqi´s and over 270 injured. So who pays the price for "liberty" ?

It is not about making up someone´s mind. It´s about keeping promises and actually show initiative. Initiatiove isn´t dropping 3 500 pounders like the US did today or rampaging with tanks into town. It´s cooperating with the Iraqi executive branch. And comments like:

Quote[/b] ]"Coalition forces feel confident with the situation," said Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, coalition deputy operations chief.

certainly don´t contribute to this.

[theavonlady 2]

One moment please. This should be rather interesting for both of you:

Quote[/b] ]Explosions and shelling shook Fallujah, 40 miles west of Baghdad, as armed men ran through the streets, witnesses said. Residents said U.S. forces were shelling from positions outside the city and helicopters were in the skies, but the U.S. military could not immediately be reached for comment.

One Marine helicopter made an emergency landing, but no one was wounded.

U.S. forces manning a checkpoint opened fire on a local government convoy that included Fallujah's mayor and police chief, who were trying to meet the Americans to discuss the violence, an Iraqi police lieutenant said on condition of anonymity. The convoy turned back, and no injuries were reported.

A motorist who drove through Fallujah Thursday morning said Iraqi police and insurgents were cooperating, chatting amicably along the streets, and seemed to be working together.

So what are we talking about now ?

Terrorists or insurgents ?

One and the same.

Quote[/b] ]

Where did the 3 soldiers get killed ?

I can only confirm 2 soldiers who got killed near Baqouba. I don´t know what they were doing there, do you ? Where they on a convoi ? At a checkpoint ? On patrol ?

You tell me as you seem to know it.

I read 3 there. No mention of a convoy.

Quote[/b] ]Another one was killed in Mosul. Details ? Negative.

So?

Quote[/b] ]Let´s compare this to the numbers of Iraqi deaths today. Up to now we have at least 69 confirmed killed Iraqi´s and over 270 injured. So who pays the price for "liberty" ?

That's not the point. And it's much easier to terrorize men, women and children and lesser security personel, like policemen, than it is fully decked out military forces.

Quote[/b] ]It is not about making up someone´s mind. It´s about keeping promises and actually show initiative.

I call that making up ones mind. The US has to make a decision to achieve that, don't they?

Quote[/b] ]Initiatiove isn´t dropping 3 500 pounders like the US did today or rampaging with tanks into town.

No but that can work, too, to its limited extent.

Quote[/b] ]It´s cooperating with the Iraqi executive branch. And comments like:

Quote[/b] ]"Coalition forces feel confident with the situation," said Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, coalition deputy operations chief.

certainly don´t contribute to this.

Agreed. Here in Israel we would say that Gen. Kimmitt is talking pakka-pakka.

[reconmercs 0]

It is not about making up someone´s mind. It´s about keeping promises and actually show initiative. Initiatiove isn´t dropping 3 500 pounders like the US did today or rampaging with tanks into town.

oh look another arm chair general with his "well informed" opinion. Exactly how many lives lost would show us showing the iniative you've got ALOT of nerve judging how your country men pussied out on helping out. But, I'm sure you were jumping up and down begging to come help out..it's easy for you to critcize how we're doing things since your not there..I just love all these foreigners (whose ass we've kicked in the past) are trying to give us advice on how to win our own wars

[denoir 0]

it's easy for you to critcize how we're doing things since your not there..

Of course, since they were smart enough to stay out.

Quote[/b] ]are trying to give us advice on how to win our own wars

Given the FUBAR situation in Iraq, I'd say you need all the help you can get.

[ran 0]

It is not about making up someone´s mind. It´s about keeping promises and actually show initiative. Initiatiove isn´t dropping 3 500 pounders like the US did today or rampaging with tanks into town.

oh look another arm chair general with his "well informed" opinion. Exactly how many lives lost would show us showing the iniative you've got ALOT of nerve judging how your country men pussied out on helping out. But, I'm sure you were jumping up and down begging to come help out..it's easy for you to critcize how we're doing things since your not there..I just love all these foreigners (whose ass we've kicked in the past) are trying to give us advice on how to win our own wars

Shut up, you don't know who Bals is, and i'd advise you to swallow your words.

What gives you the right to speak ? you're american ? so we should just drink your words ? sorry, but I got sick of this cheap booze something like a decade ago.

Bals has "been there" on many occasions while you and even your country weren't.

-edit-: and like a few members here, he has a certain expertise in the domain the United States have failed miserably in to this day, expertise he earned throughout the years, holding a gun in perfect shitholes while you were crying for your mommy, wearing diapers. I guess he has as much as you the right to express his opinion. You have no lesson to give, but a shitload to receive.

(edit- : i may have been a bit too fast with the diapers since I don't exactly know your age, but I guess people of these forums got a certain idea of how old you are).

I'd hold much more respect toward you and your thoughts (without agreeing with them) if you actually were in Iraq. (if you are, prove me wrong)

[denoir 0]

That's not the point. And it's much easier to terrorize men, women and children and lesser security personel, like policemen, than it is fully decked out military forces.

Especially when the military forces are sitting safe and locked up in their bases

It's quite simple, when they had a proactive policy, there were lot of US casualties. These days there are much fewer. As I've pointed out twice now, the US has pulled out of Falluajah, Najaf, Karbala, large parts of Baghdad etc etc They're avoiding confrontation and leaving it to the Iraqis to handle the security. So far the Iraqis havn't been very successful, but on the other hand, neither was the US.

[Balschoiw 0]

Haha funny reconmercs. I am UN soldier, you wannabe. I ´ve been to a lot of combat and PC/PE missions throughout the last decade. I´d suggest you temper your mouth or the mods will. I´d say I´m less an arm chair general than you are.

As you seem to fail to get the idea that numbers in deaths don´t indicate the level of initiative you only show how simple minded you are. Read back a few pages and you´ll see that it was not me who brought up that stupid number that actually has nothing today with the current situation.

Quote[/b] ]you've got ALOT of nerve judging how your country men pussied out on helping out

Pardon me ?!?

Pussied out from what ? From fighting a war for faked reasons ? Yeah, I´m happy that my government isn´t that stupid and didn´t send any troops there. If you feel happy while beeing cheated, betrayed or whatever have your fun but don´t expect us being that naive.

Quote[/b] ]it's easy for you to critcize how we're doing things since your not there

I already know your "either with us or against us crap". Save your breath and tell it to anyone who´s interested...

Sure I´m not there, but besides this we have full coverage here. You don´t have to be there to realize that it doesn´t run especially well for the Iraqis and the coaltion troops.

Quote[/b] ]I just love all these foreigners (whose ass we've kicked in the past) are trying to give us advice on how to win our own wars

HAHA !

You kicked no ass, that´s for sure.

I don´t give you advice on how to win your wars that´s for sure. The war is already over, you forgot ?

I´m concerned about what´s going on over there as torture, civillian death toll and the Iraqi country means S*** to you and your administration. That´s why.

And you are the perfect example for this.

Tell me, what have you done for other people abroad lately ?

Share your combat experiences with us. Tell us what your background is or shut up and leave the grown ups alone who are trying to have a serious debate about Iraq. It´s not about national pride or the USA here.

It´s about the Iraq war in case you missed it.

[reconmercs 0]

It is not about making up someone´s mind. It´s about keeping promises and actually show initiative. Initiatiove isn´t dropping 3 500 pounders like the US did today or rampaging with tanks into town.

oh look another arm chair general with his "well informed" opinion.  Exactly how many lives lost would show us showing the iniative   you've got ALOT of nerve judging how your country men pussied out on helping out. But, I'm sure you were jumping up and down begging to come help out..it's easy for you to critcize how we're doing things since your not there..I just love all these foreigners (whose ass we've kicked in the past) are trying to give us advice on how to win our own wars  

Shut up, you don't know who Bals is, and i'd advise you to swallow your words.

What gives you the right to speak ? you're american ? so we should just drink your words ? sorry, but I got sick of this cheap booze something like a decade ago.

Bals has "been there" on many occasions while you and even your country weren't.

-edit-: and like a few members here, he has a certain expertise in the domain the United States have failed miserably today, expertise he earned throughout the years, holding a gun in perfect shitholes while you were crying for your mommy, wearing diapers. I guess he has as much as you the right to express his opinion. You have no lesson to give, but a shitload to receive.

oh wow here comes the french I couldn't give two shits who bals is....I don't care if he was a super secret agent in Germanys most elite unit....he crossed the line when he started shooting off about us not putting enough effort, not willing to lose more mem..yada yada yada...you can STFU up too..everyone knows when its all said and done...you pricks are gonna wanna come to the table and beg for a hand in post war Iraq...I ain't got a problem with you, I ain't got a problem with bals I DO have a problem when foreigners who don't have their troops boots in the sand talking shit about those who are there(with exceptions to Israel since they've got their own war to fight)..your the perfect example of why everyone was french and german bashing months ago...until yall decide to stop acting all high and mighty and decide to help the problem..S T F U

[Balschoiw 0]

Instead of replying to this post I reported it to the Mods. Have a nice day.

[ran 0]

It is not about making up someone´s mind. It´s about keeping promises and actually show initiative. Initiatiove isn´t dropping 3 500 pounders like the US did today or rampaging with tanks into town.

oh look another arm chair general with his "well informed" opinion. Exactly how many lives lost would show us showing the iniative you've got ALOT of nerve judging how your country men pussied out on helping out. But, I'm sure you were jumping up and down begging to come help out..it's easy for you to critcize how we're doing things since your not there..I just love all these foreigners (whose ass we've kicked in the past) are trying to give us advice on how to win our own wars

Shut up, you don't know who Bals is, and i'd advise you to swallow your words.

What gives you the right to speak ? you're american ? so we should just drink your words ? sorry, but I got sick of this cheap booze something like a decade ago.

Bals has "been there" on many occasions while you and even your country weren't.

-edit-: and like a few members here, he has a certain expertise in the domain the United States have failed miserably today, expertise he earned throughout the years, holding a gun in perfect shitholes while you were crying for your mommy, wearing diapers. I guess he has as much as you the right to express his opinion. You have no lesson to give, but a shitload to receive.

oh wow here comes the french I couldn't give two shits who bals is....I don't care if he was a super secret agent in Germanys most elite unit....he crossed the line when he started shooting off about us not putting enough effort, not willing to lose more mem..yada yada yada...you can STFU up too..everyone knows when its all said and done...you pricks are gonna wanna come to the table and beg for a hand in post war Iraq...I ain't got a problem with you, I ain't got a problem with bals I DO have a problem when foreigners who don't have their troops boots in the sand talking shit about those who are there(with exceptions to Israel since they've got their own war to fight)..your the perfect example of why everyone was french and german bashing months ago...until yall decide to stop acting all high and mighty and decide to help the problem..S T F U

more than enough to get you out of these forums ... good riddance i'd say

Good bye by the way

[theavonlady 2]

Instead of replying to this post I reported it to the Mods. Have a nice day.  

Why? I don't think you said anything wrong in your post.

[reconmercs 0]

If I'm booted from the boards so be it..I stand by what I said

[Akira 0]

I'm surprised he lasted this long given his July 2002 registration...

[reconmercs 0]

I'm surprised he lasted this long given his July 2002 registration...

Well, the US soldier bashing has picked up ALOT since then..go figure...

[Akira 0]

I'm surprised he lasted this long given his July 2002 registration...

Well, the US soldier bashing has picked up ALOT since then..go figure...

I replied similiarly in the "Views" thread:

It not soldier bashing per se.

It's policy and leadership bashing, which I am fine with.

I'm sure the line soldier isn't hurting that they don't have to go out and get shot at anymore...but it was the leadership and policy shift that lead to it.

[reconmercs 0]

ok for my Pro-American opinion, foreigners want me kicked... whatever..until then...Akira, for the record we both hate Bush..I don't agree with dropin 500lbs on random cities either but do you honestly think thas the goal...we can't help if the terrorist operations center is in the middle of a city..we can't just let them operate freely..the terrorists decided to put innocent civlians at risk...not the pilot who is tasked with carrying out his or her mission...if we went in with tanks and apcs people would be saying theirs the evil Americans rampaging another city...if someone on this board has a honest, completely safe way of fighting in an urban environment without risk to civilians they are welcome to travel down to Macdill AFB and state their opinion to there..I can't think of one.. to state a clique saying "war is hell" and not just the bad guys are gonna die...

[denoir 0]

ok for my Pro-American opinion, foreigners want me kicked... whatever..until then...Akira, for the record we both hate Bush..I don't agree with dropin 500lbs on random cities either but do you honestly think thas the goal...we can't help if the terrorist operations center is in the middle of a city..we can't just let them operate freely..the terrorists decided to put innocent civlians at risk...not the pilot who is tasked with carrying out his or her mission...if we went in with tanks and apcs people would be saying theirs the evil Americans rampaging another city...if someone on this board has a honest, completely safe way of fighting in an urban environment without risk to civilians they are welcome to travel down to Macdill AFB and state their opinion to there..I can't think of one.. to state a clique saying "war is hell" and not just the bad guys are gonna die...

Perhaps you should have thought of those things before charging in guns blazing. You are taking the consequences of a bad decision made by Bush and his merry men. Those terrorists wouldn't have been there had there not been an invasion and had the occupation not been handled so incompetently.

Edit: Btw, about the "foreigners want me kicked", this is a European server, so that would make you the foreigner here.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]ok for my Pro-American opinion, foreigners want me kicked...

Everyone is a foreigner on this board.

It´s not about your nationality but about your postings that contents violate the Board rules. Easy as that. And just for the record. Noone was bashing the soldiers serving in Iraq here. They are the last to blame.

[Veovis 0]

I am an American. I support our troops in Iraq. But you, recon, are not helping anything. You think people dislike you because you are an American? People dislike you because your posts tend to be immature, and usually completely devoid of any facts.

Quote[/b] ]oh wow here comes the french

Comments like that do not help anything. And you wonder why foreigners are upset with Americans?

Quote[/b] ]you can STFU up too..everyone knows when its all said and done...you pricks are gonna wanna come to the table and beg for a hand in post war Iraq...I ain't got a problem with you, I ain't got a problem with bals I DO have a problem when foreigners who don't have their troops boots in the sand talking shit about those who are there(with exceptions to Israel since they've got their  own war to fight)..your the perfect example of why everyone was french and german bashing months ago...until yall decide to stop acting all high and mighty and  decide to help the problem..S T F U

Wow, now if that isn't the perfect promotion for the American ignorant hick image, I don't know what is. In case you hadn't noticed, most European countries want nothing to do with Iraq. Who's really acting high and mighty here? Your posts are full of insults and emotion (and bad grammar) and yet I bet you are wondering why you aren't respected.

Quote[/b] ]I stand by what I said

What, you mean your insulting everybody who has a problem with America? Gee, I wonder what they have against us... we seem like such good people with people such as you supporting us.

[reconmercs 0]

ok for my Pro-American opinion, foreigners want me kicked... whatever..until then...Akira, for the record we both hate Bush..I don't agree with dropin 500lbs on random cities either but do you honestly think thas the goal...we can't help if the terrorist operations center is in the middle of a city..we can't just let them operate freely..the terrorists decided to put innocent civlians at risk...not the pilot who is tasked with carrying out his or her mission...if we went in with tanks and apcs people would be saying theirs the evil Americans rampaging another city...if someone on this board has a honest, completely safe way of fighting in an urban environment without risk to civilians they are welcome to travel down to Macdill AFB and state their opinion to there..I can't think of one.. to state a clique saying "war is hell" and not just the bad guys are gonna die...

Perhaps you should have thought of those things before charging in guns blazing. You are taking the consequences of a bad decision made by Bush and his merry men. Those terrorists wouldn't have been there had there not been an invasion and had the occupation not been handled so incompetently.

Edit: Btw, about the "foreigners want me kicked", this is a European server, so that would make you the foreigner here.

Geez..can I report you or do I have to wait until I hurt another forum junkies feelings...how am I off base for defending my views and every FOREIGNER and their mom can bash us...do you honeslty think terrorist would just sit around thumbing their fingers if we hadn't have went into Iraq..ARE YOUR SERIOUS can you honestly say that? I don't know what the terrorism problem is like in Sweden...but I'm guessing its nowhere near as bad as it is here, the UK, Israel(who has it worse than anyone), Pakistan, etc...what would you have us do..when should we respond? what is the proper number of civilian dead? until you can honestly answer those questions to me yes your are just another Amercian bashing foreigner..you want to say we're so bad, we're so wrong but you can't give any advice on how to make it better can you?

[Akira 0]

To reconmercs:

Quote[/b] ]It´s not about your nationality but about your postings that contents violate the Board rules. Easy as that. And just for the record. Noone was bashing the soldiers serving in Iraq here. They are the last to blame.

Quote[/b] ]erhaps you should have thought of those things before charging in guns blazing. You are taking the consequences of a bad decision made by Bush and his merry men. Those terrorists wouldn't have been there had there not been an invasion and had the occupation not been handled so incompetently.

Again see? No one is bashing the actual soldiers or soldiers. They are bashing the ones that tell them to do these things. The one who orders the pilot to drop the bomb, the one who orders Falluja to be hit and seiged.

Its the leadership (Bush down to the Generals) and the policy (its ok to drop a 500lber in the middle of a residential area) that is to be blamed.

Quote[/b] ]we can't just let them operate freely.

But we are by being holed up in the bases and letting them threaten Iraqi soveriegnty and security.

Quote[/b] ]the terrorists decided to put innocent civlians at risk

Indeed. But so does the US with its ROE. Killing terrorists isn't as simple as launching a Tomahawk. Sometimes we have to go in and get our hands dirty while not leveling the city and killing civilians. That is the hard part of being a "liberator".

[reconmercs 0]

I am an American. I support our troops in Iraq. But you, recon, are not helping anything. You think people dislike you because you are an American? People dislike you because your posts tend to be immature, and usually completely devoid of any facts.

Quote[/b] ]oh wow here comes the french

Comments like that do not help anything. And you wonder why foreigners are upset with Americans?

Quote[/b] ]you can STFU up too..everyone knows when its all said and done...you pricks are gonna wanna come to the table and beg for a hand in post war Iraq...I ain't got a problem with you, I ain't got a problem with bals I DO have a problem when foreigners who don't have their troops boots in the sand talking shit about those who are there(with exceptions to Israel since they've got their  own war to fight)..your the perfect example of why everyone was french and german bashing months ago...until yall decide to stop acting all high and mighty and  decide to help the problem..S T F U

Wow, now if that isn't the perfect promotion for the American ignorant hick image, I don't know what is. In case you hadn't noticed, most European countries want nothing to do with Iraq. Who's really acting high and mighty here? Your posts are full of insults and emotion (and bad grammar) and yet I bet you are wondering why you aren't respected.

Quote[/b] ]I stand by what I said

What, you mean your insulting everybody who has a problem with America? Gee, I wonder what they have against us... we seem like such good people with people such as you supporting us.

Veovis, I invite you to check my post record over the last 2 YEARS and think about what you've said I'm probally the least likely to use foul language or break forum rules...until I see these threads and everyone has advice on how we should be fighting the war....from people who have no clue..."hey let's do it this way", "the americans aren't putting in enough effort", "they've only lost a couple soldiers" whatever....I guess it shouldn't matter since I'm not there right? I could care less if I'm respected by people I'll NEVER meet..I just believe if you gonna have a thread about Iraq it shouldn't be filled with "the Americans are wrong" as the sole idea...

[reconmercs 0]

To reconmercs:

Quote[/b] ]It´s not about your nationality but about your postings that contents violate the Board rules. Easy as that. And just for the record. Noone was bashing the soldiers serving in Iraq here. They are the last to blame.

Quote[/b] ]erhaps you should have thought of those things before charging in guns blazing. You are taking the consequences of a bad decision made by Bush and his merry men. Those terrorists wouldn't have been there had there not been an invasion and had the occupation not been handled so incompetently.

Again see? No one is bashing the actual soldiers or soldiers. They are bashing the ones that tell them to do these things. The one who orders the pilot to drop the bomb, the one who orders Falluja to be hit and seiged.

Its the leadership (Bush down to the Generals) and the policy (its ok to drop a 500lber in the middle of a residential area) that is to be blamed.

Quote[/b] ]we can't just let them operate freely.

But we are by being holed up in the bases and letting them threaten Iraqi soveriegnty and security.

Quote[/b] ]the terrorists decided to put innocent civlians at risk

Indeed. But so does the US with its ROE. Killing terrorists isn't as simple as launching a Tomahawk. Sometimes we have to go in and get our hands dirty while not leveling the city and killing civilians. That is the hard part of being a "liberator".

Akira, I ask again, what would be your suggestion, not your criticism? holed up...whos says that...CNN? Fox News..I have friends I tlk to on a regular basis over there and their not holed up in bases..their conducting combat patrols and risking their lives everyday..and by the way...you can get killed over there just when you think you taking a break (those four marines, unfortunately showed that this week). How would you change the ROE..send in small teams of special ops team to silently cut the throats of terrorists..I can assure you they want to more than ever but this ain't Air Force One or Tears of the Sun it ain't that easy...I only ask if you going to criticise what our troops were forced to do...suggest a better way...don't just got off on a tangent of bashing...it's that simple I don't see why thas so hard to follow