The Iraq thread 3

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]It is not justs Bushs mistake.

It is.

Let´s call it TBA ´s mistake.

They went for a war with no international or UN backing.

They had no plan except to guard the oil-wells and pipelines.

They had no plan for the post-war era.

They have no plan of peacekeeping and -enforcing.

They have no idea that Iraqi interim government wants to participate and not excluded from decisions that actually kill Iraqi people.

They have no interest to rebuild infrastructure and furthermore use the water and food suplly to blackmail people.

They employ former Saddam supporters for the Iraqi army.

They make the same errors over and over again, play it all down and sell it as terrorism and foreign-fighters.

I mean, please !?!, Rumsfeld said they would have to deal with 6000 terrorists now.

The figure is wrong as the declaration is.

I may remind you that Rumsfeld wanted to invade Iraq with 12.000 men only. Only heavy resistance from Pentagon was able to influence his weird ideas.

They are incompetent. Bremer is, Bush is, the TBA is, Powell is, Rumsfeld is, Horowitz is....

As I said before , the UN is not respected in Iraq. If UN troops would be sent there, they would always been seen as the USA guarddog. That´s not what we are for.

The holy coaltion messed it and THEY have the responsibility to fulfill their proposals, not the UN or anyone else.

I can only speak for myself. I am not keen on fixing the trouble the TBA started in Iraq. The ones who wanted to go for war in Iraq shall fix it.

If some blokehead wants to go for war and is supported by his fellows they shall harvest the results. Not some other nations troops again. We have plenty of that shit in Afghanistan. We don´t need another job handed over by incompentent TBA.

They mess it, they have to solve it. Easy as that.

[miles teg 1]

I still have hope that a UN force mainly of Arab nations (Iraq's neighbors who MUST have stability in Iraq or else their nation's will be threatened) could be sent in but it would require enormous diplomatic skill and most likely a DIFFERENT administration here in the US. So yes we Americans will solve this problem in Iraq by first electing a different President and kicking out Bush as few countries in the Middle East trust TBA or want to be seen working with or for them.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[Bernadotte 0]

They employ former Saddam supporters for the Iraqi army.

Actually, they did not employ any former high-level military leaders... until today.

[python3 0]

i think this might be a new chopper downed today.

http://www.reuters.com/newsArt....4811802

looks like another apache.

[theavonlady 2]

i think this might be a new chopper downed today.

http://www.reuters.com/newsArt....4811802

looks like another apache.

All I heard on the news here about 2 hours ago is that a Sikorsky H-53 went down.

Or am I losing track?

[Acecombat 0]

How many Apaches have they got?

I mean the amount thats gong down they should be out of them by the end of this year

[Acecombat 0]

What this beast?

[Acecombat 0]

Iraq's Sadr Says Ready to Die for Anti-U.S. Drive

Quote[/b] ]BEIRUT (Reuters) - Shi'ite Muslim cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, wanted by U.S.-led forces in Iraq, said Tuesday he was willing to die for his campaign to end their occupation.

But the radical preacher also appeared to leave the door open to negotiation, saying his only demand was to keep foreign troops out of the holy city of Najaf, where he himself is based.

"I am ready to sacrifice (myself) and I call on the people not to allow my death to cause the collapse of the fight for freedom and an end to the occupation," Sadr told Lebanon's al-Manar television, run by the Shi'ite Hizbollah group.

Yeah right as if he'll come to the frontline to fight ?

[miles teg 1]

Yeah... that's the heli. The Marines around Fellujah were probably using it to bring in troops, supplies, or heavy weapons as convoys are getting attacked fiercely and you pretty much need a small Army to defend the convoys. Helicopters in essence become more efficient for critical supplies.

It could have also been used for medivac purposes.

Who knows... whatever the case they are not reporting yet how many injuries or deaths resulted from this latest shootdown.

In Vietnam, being a helicopter crew member was one of the most dangerous occupations for a US soldier. Today its not much different except instead of jungle, the danger areas are urban combat zones and the AA weapon of choice, the RPG-7 and the SA-7 along with small arms fire.

I wonder if now they're going to start airdropping supplies via parachute now.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[Tanaska 0]

I do not understand. Sadr has very big militia. Why did he not use it before coalition war to remove Sadaam?? If there was not any more WMD then they would not fear gassing, and they have so many RPG's to take out the old Iraqi tanks.

Big shame. So much could have been prevented if they had taken responsiblity instead of making outsiders do it for them. And now that hard work is done, they want power for themselves!

To destroy Fallujah like Grozny would be BIG mistake. You take away all that those people care for, and they have nothing left to live for and will be even worse to deal with. Give them something to live for and maybe they think again about fighting. That is why Sadr has large army. Those people have nothing to hope for except this way out. If they had jobs and house and money, they might want to live more and not fight.

[Acecombat 0]

Quote[/b] ]I do not understand. Sadr has very big militia. Why did he not use it before coalition war to remove Sadaam?? If there was not any more WMD then they would not fear gassing, and they have so many RPG's to take out the old Iraqi tanks

If i know correctly then these groups back then didnt sport such power or weapons , they just got them now after the Iraqi army died , so they couldnt have helped US army anyway.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]In their campaign to find the fugitive Sadr, wanted by the occupying forces for killing a rival cleric last year, US-led troops arrested Sadr's senior aide Sheikh Hazem al-Araji at a Baghdad hotel, Araji told AFP.

"I have been arrested," said Araji, reached on his mobile phone before abruptly hanging up.

American authorities did not confirm his detention or his whereabouts, which came as another top US official, General Ricardo Sanchez said Najaf was still under control of militias loyal to Sadr.

"The mission of the US forces is to kill or capture Moqtada Sadr," who is rumored to have gone underground in Najaf and is reportedly sending messages to his supporters from there, Abizaid said.

Contradictory reports from the city said Iraqi police had moved into Najaf after an agreement on the withdrawal of militia from the streets.

"We have maneuvered forces down into the vicinity of Najaf to ensure that we are prepared to conduct an offensive operation to eliminate the final elements of Moqtada Sadr's inflence down there," Sanchez said.

Looks like they´re going in. Good idea ? No.

Too many worshippers still in town. Too much symbolism.

This is what the TBA calls a precise strike:

Quote[/b] ]The attack killed more than 600 Iraqis and wounded 1,250, local officials said, with one saying more than half of the dead were women, children and the elderly.

"Among those killed were 160 women, 141 children and many elderly," Fouda Rawi told AFP, providing the first precise figures on the number of civilian deaths from the assault.

I don´t want to know what an unprecise US strike looks like

50 percent failure rate at least. No good way to make friends in Iraq.

The rate is to be considered even higher as not every male in a certain age group is with the fighters.

Poor performance. Very poor.

This should be investigated. Not by the US but by independant organizations like HRW or others and the ones responsible for giving orders should be taken to justice.

War´s over, don´t forget that. At least that´s what GWB tries to tell us.

I´m looking forward to his speech today. I am sure we will hear a lot of "terrorists" again.

[MLF 0]

GWB said thw war was over, but it never was really, Fallujah has never been in the hands of the US forces.

[python3 0]

hey balschoiw, could you post a link to that article on the civilian toll in fallujah. Some folks on another forum are having a hard time believing that most of the 600 casualties were civilian. and i cant seem to find this recent article.

Thanks

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]I don´t want to know what an unprecise US strike looks like  

50 percent failure rate at least. No good way to make friends in Iraq.

The rate is to be considered even higher as not every male in a certain age group is with the fighters.

Poor performance. Very poor.

This should be investigated. Not by the US but by independant organizations like HRW or others and the ones responsible for giving orders should be taken to justice.

War´s over, don´t forget that. At least that´s what GWB tries to tell us.

I´m looking forward to his speech today. I am sure we will hear a lot of "terrorists" again.

That what you get when fighting in a urban setting. The rebels were using homes, public buildings, schools, mosques, and etc. as cover. Hell, there were reports rebels using civilians as shields. The marines did allow women, childern, and old folks to leave Fallujah.

The military should of bomb the hell of Fallujah and not waste their time fight in the streets....

Quote[/b] ]GWB said thw war was over, but it never was really, Fallujah has never been in the hands of the US forces.

82nd AB was there before. It really started to fall in pieces when the Iraqi police took over.

[NavyEEL 0]

Quote[/b] ]In their campaign to find the fugitive Sadr, wanted by the occupying forces for killing a rival cleric last year, US-led troops arrested Sadr's senior aide Sheikh Hazem al-Araji at a Baghdad hotel, Araji told AFP.

"I have been arrested," said Araji, reached on his mobile phone before abruptly hanging up.

American authorities did not confirm his detention or his whereabouts, which came as another top US official, General Ricardo Sanchez said Najaf was still under control of militias loyal to Sadr.

"The mission of the US forces is to kill or capture Moqtada Sadr," who is rumored to have gone underground in Najaf and is reportedly sending messages to his supporters from there, Abizaid said.

Contradictory reports from the city said Iraqi police had moved into Najaf after an agreement on the withdrawal of militia from the streets.

"We have maneuvered forces down into the vicinity of Najaf to ensure that we are prepared to conduct an offensive operation to eliminate the final elements of Moqtada Sadr's inflence down there," Sanchez said.

Looks like they´re going in. Good idea ? No.

Too many worshippers still in town. Too much symbolism.

This is what the TBA calls a precise strike:

Quote[/b] ]The attack killed more than 600 Iraqis and wounded 1,250, local officials said, with one saying more than half of the dead were women, children and the elderly.

"Among those killed were 160 women, 141 children and many elderly," Fouda Rawi told AFP, providing the first precise figures on the number of civilian deaths from the assault.

I don´t want to know what an unprecise US strike looks like

50 percent failure rate at least. No good way to make friends in Iraq.

The rate is to be considered even higher as not every male in a certain age group is with the fighters.

Poor performance. Very poor.

This should be investigated. Not by the US but by independant organizations like HRW or others and the ones responsible for giving orders should be taken to justice.

War´s over, don´t forget that. At least that´s what GWB tries to tell us.

I´m looking forward to his speech today. I am sure we will hear a lot of "terrorists" again.

How many of those "women, children, and elderly" were armed? You can't really trust the media as far as statistics regarding civilian casualties are concerned... remember, the media is designed to ENTERTAIN. Saying that American troops killed 1,000 Iraqi soldiers with no civilian casualties doesn't make for a very interesting story, does it?

[EiZei 0]

Quote[/b] ]In their campaign to find the fugitive Sadr, wanted by the occupying forces for killing a rival cleric last year, US-led troops arrested Sadr's senior aide Sheikh Hazem al-Araji at a Baghdad hotel, Araji told AFP.

"I have been arrested," said Araji, reached on his mobile phone before abruptly hanging up.

American authorities did not confirm his detention or his whereabouts, which came as another top US official, General Ricardo Sanchez said Najaf was still under control of militias loyal to Sadr.

"The mission of the US forces is to kill or capture Moqtada Sadr," who is rumored to have gone underground in Najaf and is reportedly sending messages to his supporters from there, Abizaid said.

Contradictory reports from the city said Iraqi police had moved into Najaf after an agreement on the withdrawal of militia from the streets.

"We have maneuvered forces down into the vicinity of Najaf to ensure that we are prepared to conduct an offensive operation to eliminate the final elements of Moqtada Sadr's inflence down there," Sanchez said.

Looks like they´re going in. Good idea ? No.

Too many worshippers still in town. Too much symbolism.

This is what the TBA calls a precise strike:

Quote[/b] ]The attack killed more than 600 Iraqis and wounded 1,250, local officials said, with one saying more than half of the dead were women, children and the elderly.

"Among those killed were 160 women, 141 children and many elderly," Fouda Rawi told AFP, providing the first precise figures on the number of civilian deaths from the assault.

I don´t want to know what an unprecise US strike looks like

50 percent failure rate at least. No good way to make friends in Iraq.

The rate is to be considered even higher as not every male in a certain age group is with the fighters.

Poor performance. Very poor.

This should be investigated. Not by the US but by independant organizations like HRW or others and the ones responsible for giving orders should be taken to justice.

War´s over, don´t forget that. At least that´s what GWB tries to tell us.

I´m looking forward to his speech today. I am sure we will hear a lot of "terrorists" again.

How many of those "women, children, and elderly" were armed? You can't really trust the media as far as statistics regarding civilian casualties are concerned... remember, the media is designed to ENTERTAIN. Saying that American troops killed 1,000 Iraqi soldiers with no civilian casualties doesn't make for a very interesting story, does it?

Id say something is really f*cked up if women and children try to kill US troops.

[billybob2002 0]

WTF at arab "media"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3619267.stm

Quote[/b] ]

Many Arab press commentators hail the ceasefire in the Iraqi town of Falluja as a victory for the "resistance" and defeat for US forces, with only a Kuwaiti paper failing to cheer what it views as a town full of "terrorists and Baathist remnants".

In Iraq itself, there is criticism of the tactics of both the US and some members of the US-appointed Iraqi Governing Council, while Iranian papers are more concerned that the unrest among Iraq's Shia community may backfire on them.

Quote[/b] ]

The Falluja battle was an indication of the overwhelming rejection of the US by its residents and the desire of Iraqis for liberation from this occupation... Alienation between the occupation forces and the Iraqi people has increased. The best thing the occupation can do is hasten the power-transfer process and prepare to leave.

Al-Jazirah - Saudi

[MLF 0]

82nd AB was there before. It really started to fall in pieces when the Iraqi police took over.

O indeed, i have a friend who works for the MOD and we were discussing the Fallujah situation earlier and he actually commented on that most of these places that the Marines took over from the AB units have gone to pot (shit).

[SpongeBob 0]

WTF at arab "media"

Hehe

Quote[/b] ]New Reports on U.S. Planting WMDs in Iraq  

http://www.mehrnews.com/wfNewsD....litical

BASRA, April 12 (MNA) -– Fifty days after the first reports that the U.S. forces were unloading weapons of mass destruction (WMD) in southern Iraq, new reports about the movement of these weapons have been disclosed.  

Sources in Iraq speculate that occupation forces are using the recent unrest in Iraq to divert attention from their surreptitious shipments of WMD into the country.

An Iraqi source close to the Basra Governor’s Office told the MNA that new information shows that a large part of the WMD, which was secretly brought to southern and western Iraq over the past month, are in containers falsely labeled as containers of the Maeresk shipping company and some consignments bearing the labels of organizations such as the Red Cross or the USAID in order to disguise them as relief shipments.

The source, who spoke on condition of anonymity, added that Iraqi officials including forces loyal to the Iraqi Governing Council stationed in southern Iraq have been forbidden from inspecting or supervising the transportation of these consignments. He went on to say that the occupation forces have ordered Iraqi officials to forward any questions on the issue to the coalition forces. Even the officials of the international relief organizations have informed the Iraqi officials that they would only accept responsibility for relief shipments which have been registered and managed by their organizations.

The Iraqi source also confirmed the report about suspicious trucks with fake Saudi and Jordanian license plates entering Iraq at night last week, stressing that the Saudi and Jordanian border guards did not attempt to inspect the trucks but simply delivered them to the U.S. and British forces stationed on Iraq’s borders.

However, the source expressed ignorance whether the governments of Saudi Arabia and Jordan were aware of such movements.

[python3 0]

well, with the violence that took place in fallujah, and najaf soon, the US has done one good thing for the time being. The chance for a civil war has been reduced. They have actually brought the Iraqi's together. Now they will face a much larger and more determined enemey

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4725737/

edited for wrong link.

[denoir 0]

The military should of bomb the hell of Fallujah and not waste their time fight in the streets....

So genocide it is?

NavyEEL:

Quote[/b] ]Saying that American troops killed 1,000 Iraqi soldiers with no civilian casualties doesn't make for a very interesting story, does it?

Nor a very credible story. I don't know if you saw pictures from the fighting but from what could be seen it was indiscriminate. And I'm talking about both sides. The resistance wildly firing RPGs all over the place and the US troops responding by calling in air strikes smack in the middle of urban areas. I'd be surprised if even 10% of the dead were more than random victims.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]So genocide it is?

Sarcastic remark. No, I not asking for genocide against fallujah civilians.

Quote[/b] ]This should be investigated. Not by the US but by independant organizations like HRW or others and the ones responsible for giving orders should be taken to justice.

So, Marines and the Iraqi soldiers (600 or 900 of them are with the Marines) are purposely targeting civilians? Genocide?

[NavyEEL 0]

The military should of bomb the hell of Fallujah and not waste their time fight in the streets....

So genocide it is?  

NavyEEL:

Quote[/b] ]Saying that American troops killed 1,000 Iraqi soldiers with no civilian casualties doesn't make for a very interesting story, does it?  

Nor a very credible story. I don't know if you saw pictures from the fighting but from what could be seen it was indiscriminate. And I'm talking about both sides. The resistance wildly firing RPGs all over the place and the US troops responding by calling in air strikes smack in the middle of urban areas. I'd be surprised if even 10% of the dead were more than random victims.

It was not random bombing though. It's not like we carpet-bombed the city. Considering we have guidance systems that can precision-guide bombs and missiles to land just about anywhere we want them to, do you honestly think we would just indiscriminantly drop a bomb in the middle of a city unless there was something in particular it was being dropped on?

If we are being attacked "smack in the middle of urban areas," then of course airstrikes will be called "smack in the middle of urban areas." Where our tactics differ is in that we are selective of our targets and strive to eliminate both collateral damage and the death of innocent life.

[Acecombat 0]

Oh please calling a airstrike right smack in the middle of civilian neighbourhoods is bound tohave collateral damage along with civilian casualties its a simple forseeable issue doesnt require lots of thought.

This in other words is indiscriminate , and dont bring the 'do you honestly think we would just indiscriminantly drop a bomb' , we all know how much thse bombs cost and how and who they are dropped on except that the judgement of the folks on the ground over what consitutes a threat to them that requires such measures is in question.