Aia mod died !

[drow 0]

I would like to apollogize if anything i have said if offencive etc., but i did say "I Believe" before my post didnt I?

and i didnt mean thats the best way to make a mod, or even how we'll make ours, just a good plan in my opinion, i dont think, or didnt think, that anyone would want to download single addons in this day of ofp, I dont.

anyways, dont want to offend anyone, just want to wish AIA the best if it does come back.

Drow

[CanadianTerror 0]

"Who wants to download that shit"

Ya, I can see how you meant that in a non offensive way.

Everyone's entitled to to their opinion though.

[dinger 1]

A little perspective, please?

(please note, what I'm going to say consists of generalities. I have no information on AIA's demise to add or to modify)

We're talking about a video game here, and we're talking about people who do stuff in their spare time.

We're also talking about a video game that is way past its peak in terms of numbers of players. The crowd is not getting bigger, folks.

It's natural that mods will suffer the same demographic forces: people losing interest; people who have real life obligations; people going on to other things.

And some mods will be hit by a combination of ill fortune and standard product lifecycle. Heck, most of them will.

Now, ask yourself what it takes to produce a professional-quality mod. Ever wonder why there are so many mods (and missions for that matter) out there that seem only 90% done, like if the designer had only spent a little more time it could be so much better? Well, like any refinement process, that last 10 percent of quality takes far more time than the first ninety percent. Testing, testing, debugging, testing, debugging -- it's a cycle that keeps going. It's a huge drain.

Now, think about other factors.

Why are there so many people looking for texturers? Texturing's a bitch, that's why. It's also because people spend a lot of time making the perfect model, and adding in all those surfaces makes the texturer's job that much more complicated. Let's face it, modelbuilders are there because they like to model reality, and a realistic model -- regardless of how well it conforms to OFP performance specs or even ease of texturing -- is just cooler than one that just "gets the job done".

But it's also because textures are really what make the addon pop the eyes out, and that requires so much work.

Single addons or full-blown mods?

Well, there is a crowd for single addons. In fact, I'm convinced that the BIS addons and mods forum has its own subcommunity. There seem to be people who download addons just to put them in a mission editor and play with them for a few minutes before tossing them. Great. That's good, and I hope those people enjoy the addons that I make, and that everyone else makes. But when any of us sets out to make an addon, we set out to ensure the greatest distribution possible. I want to log on to a server and find people I've never met playing a mission I didn't design with my addons playing a central role.

The way you get maximum distribution is by becoming part of a standardized package that people use. The way you do that is by releasing a whole slew of addons in Mod form.

So the push towards the Mod format is there. At the same time, you hit the limitations I mentioned above. You also run into other problems. There's the standard management problems: some producers are more effective at getting things done than others. Likewise, some people have a more realistic idea of what can be accomplished. At one extreme are mods that never get off the ground: we've all seen mod groups whose only releases are a statement of purpose and a desperate request for personnel (especially texturers). Many groups shoot for the moon, and good for them, but going too big often means adding points of failure and persons who can fail. And, yes, if your mod relies absolutely on the work of a half-dozen people, it'll never get off the ground, not anymore.

In the end, look at any successful mod (and I include the BIS releases), and you'll find at the core one, two, maybe three people who do at least 80 percent of the work. The other 30 or so people involved account for less than 20 percent. If something happens to the core people, the mod dies.

That's sad, but a regular occurrance, and nobody's immune.

[drow 0]

"Who wants to download that shit"

Ya, I can see how you meant that in a non offensive way.  

Everyone's entitled to to their opinion though.

You get offended by the word shit ?

gimme a break man, you make Canadians look like pussies.

(P.S. Im Canadian. )

[Blake 0]

What I hate the most is that many good addons released over the years fall into obvilion because they weren't put into a mod project and no map uses them and nobody remembers them. Like this AiA mod, all the work seems to go to waste...

Think how good WW2EC stuff could be when some people would decide to put effort into making 'Battle for Italy 43-45' mod for example, combining all WW2EC addons into one config the brits, germans, americans. Maybe uniting it with forthcoming Italian WW2 stuff. Then set up the irc channel, decide the parameters for the config, weapon recoils, specs, sounds perhaps...maybe start pulling together campaign and mission makers here and there...then after few months of work release the definite Italian WW2 front mod. Then later maybe expand and co-operate with desert war 42 mod...and there you go, a solid mod of the WW2 Mediterranean theater is unleashed which in unbeatable since it has: 1)realistic, finely tuned config 2) great sounds 3)lots of different units 4)exciting campaign and good missions 5)has many servers running it for MP 6) People continue make missions and support it for it since it doesn't need piles of addons

I'd say it would be vastly more popular than just single addons which are frustrating to download, have inconsistent specs and sound between same weapons etc. annoying things. Sturmgeschutz III which is indestructible, Sherman that fires only HE shells...not good.

And one more hate thing - the uncomprihensible desire of mod teams to do everything themselves while there are perfectly reusable addons available which could be great after couple of evenings of texturing and config tuning. Instead you end up with model that takes sometimes months to make because modeller had a broken nail and couldn't use his mouse...and the whole project stalls and finally dies...

[Ironsight 1]

What I hate the most is that many good addons released over the years fall into obvilion because they weren't put into a mod project and no map uses them and nobody remembers them. Like this AiA mod, all the work seems to go to waste...

Agree with that a mod is never really ready! So to all mod makers release them before it's too late

[theavonlady 2]

What I hate the most is that many good addons released over the years fall into obvilion because they weren't put into a mod project and no map uses them and nobody remembers them. Like this AiA mod, all the work seems to go to waste...

Read my sig's bottom line.

[crashdome 3]

Packages are by far much much better, but I think a more unified place of distribution helps. OFPEC did alot in the early days and since it was up and running again, it was back to getting things out.... now it's down again.

Much like the rest of the community.

And script mods are by far the worst to distribute or get community support for.

In any case, try finding any mod that wasn't in the top 20 list lately.

I remember trying to find Trinity Island.. like 2 months ago... couldn't find it anywhere without asking around.

[Blake 0]

Got to agree with Avon...ultimately it's not the addons but the missions/campaigns that count. There are plenty of addons everywhere to toy around in the editor but no missions, no concept...and they are forgotten.

[Trenchfeet 0]

thats a shame whats the reason for it? do we expect the missions to be too high of a quality with sounds/effects instead of for just enjoyment?

I just hope my next release will fix this and that it will ignite the ofp community into making the most desired ww2 missions

[void_false 1]

Quote[/b] ]So many great addons and so few missions to play with them in.

I started a poll to clarify the reason but moderator closed it.

But the results were strange to me. There were twice mission-makers then addon-makers. But as we see there're many addons and less missions

[CanadianTerror 0]

Quote[/b] ]gimme a break man, you make Canadians look like pussies.

Hardly.

Drow, You sound like a teenager so I wont bother with the nasty reply.

Grow up.

[drow 0]

Quote[/b] ]gimme a break man, you make Canadians look like pussies.

Hardly.

Drow, You sound like a teenager so I wont bother with the nasty reply.

Grow up.

edit - p.s. Sorry Canadian Terror, i will not reply to anything more on this thread as its disrespectfull to AiA for us to carry on bickering and such, so please PM me if you wish to continue our girl fight.

edit again - we worked it out

Im Sorry

[Major Gripe 0]

thats a shame whats the reason for it? do we expect the missions to be too high of a quality with sounds/effects instead of for just enjoyment?

I just hope my next release will fix this and that it will ignite the ofp community into making the most desired ww2 missions

Care to share??

[scousejedi 0]

Can I just say here that Blake has hit the nail right on the head. People just start making addons but the campaign should be the first thing talked about

1. Pencil out campaign structure

2. Work out what units actually NEED to be made and write a specification that WILL NOT CHANGE.

3. See if you can borrow other addons to meet your needs

4. Make the map

5. Make a config that outlines all models ammo / armour etc but uses existing .p3ds temporarily (model="data3d\T72" instead of a tank that is being made)

6. Make the campaign and test it with the 'dummy' models

7. Gradually change the model="data3d\T72" to model="Italy44\PzIV" in the config.cpp as the models are done

8. Release the model to acclaim and save the OFP community from itself.

Anyone up for Italy 44?

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]Care to share??

He doesn't have to, he's Trenchfeet. That means that the addon will almost certainly be an amazing WWII addon (Hopefully a Flying Fortress ).

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]Agree with that a mod is never really ready!

Tell that to FDF .

Quote[/b] ]So to all mod makers release them before it's too late

Personally, I'll think we'll ignore this suggestion and continue work until we have something good enough for public use. Just look at the Imperial Guard addon to see what happens when a mod releases something before it's ready .

[Powerslide 0]

And one more hate thing - the uncomprihensible desire of mod teams to do everything themselves while there are perfectly reusable addons available which could be great after couple of evenings of texturing and config tuning. Instead you end up with model that takes sometimes months to make because modeller had a broken nail and couldn't use his mouse...and the whole project stalls and finally dies...

Now here's a good man talking. Problem is Blake some mods are unwilling to share their models with the other mod communities. It's called glory mongering and selfish greed. We need more mods willing to share models. I think of the generosity of the BW Mod (Leo tanks, Gwagen), Matthijs over at Kmarns (C6, C7, C8 and Elcan scope), these things saved us a load of time. I will say it before and say it again, any models you make in O2 BIS holds the rights to, not you. It's important to share with the community. The only thing preventing mods from just taking and modifying things is integrity, which means alot to a decent mod. Once p3d edit is released it will be a different story though. Guys may take stuff on their own, giving credit to the initial modeller. Stealing stuff is not cool, especially if you claim it as your own, but whats wrong with a reskin and credit to the modeller?

[drow 0]

sorry

the damn back page thing strikes again!

please delete this post admins or whatever.......

[drow 0]

I fully agree with this guy.

But everyone i have spoken to with regards to this type of thing has been very cooperative... except for BAS but they have no need to cooperate.

Anyways, I believe people do see that OFP is aging and its a good idea to possibly cooperate with other mods to maximize community talent and resources, its only so called glory hogs or whatever you want to call them that are dead against it, but they did put in their work to get there, and if you got shit all, or nothing they want, why share?

(I am not talking down on BAS in general, I was only stating that I previously was in fact refused rights to use Tonal vegetation, which confused me as a new mod leader, but i understand now how much work goes into this stuff etc. and dont hold it against them.)

Try to cooperate with mods whos level of progress is similar to that of your own.

[m21man 0]

*Deleted*

[Powerslide 0]

I fully agree with this guy.

But everyone i have spoken to with regards to this type of thing has been very cooperative... except for BAS but they have no need to cooperate.

Anyways, I believe people do see that OFP is aging and its a good idea to possibly cooperate with other mods to maximize community talent and resources, its only so called glory hogs or whatever you want to call them that are dead against it, but they did put in their work to get there, and if you got shit all, or nothing they want, why share?

(I am not talking down on BAS in general, I was only stating that I previously was in fact refused rights to use Tonal vegetation, which confused me as a new mod leader, but i understand now how much work goes into this stuff etc. and dont hold it against them.)

Try to cooperate with mods whos level of progress is similar to that of your own.

Then no one has a need to cooperate if they don't. Is that right? How are they different? Sure they make good stuff, there are plenty of others who do. As far as being refused to use Tonal vegetation there is no legal right behind it. It's a matter of integrity and decency. If you are decent enough to ask that's a good thing. Legally there is no right to refusal. It's a matter of respect but I can't quite understand anyone refusing the use of trees?!? If so why release such good addons? It should be open to the community. I can say if anyone wants to use our stuff in their mods go ahead. I'll even send the unbinned models if you are a reputable working and producing mod. If we can save some work for others then good.

[edc 0]

I would agree, as long as the mod that wants to use something from another mod gives credit where appropriate to the mod(s) that they used some material from, there's no logical reason why mods should refuse to share their work. The only thing it's accomplishing is slowing down the community and holding it back.

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]It's a matter of respect but I can't quite understand anyone refusing the use of trees?!? If so why release such good addons?

It's sensible for people to make their own stuff, I believe that the Tonal stuff was made from pictures of actual African plants. That would look kind of screwy in a Vietnam map . But if an independant addon maker wants to release a nice Africa map he made, then he shouldn't have to make an entire set of new plants .

[drow 0]

The point being, I asked, they said please do not use it, and I said ok.

I only asked to use their many great "plants" after i realized they didnt want anyone using their stuff, not the palms, as they clearly dont fit a Vietnam setting. (as i later learned :P , but not from you guys lol)