Hold down right mouse button for "pose control"

[Prospero 1]

Why?

Just so that pose control doesn't "make one stick" rooted to the spot when one wants to quickly move out of the way, and as I mentioned, so that WSAD can be used as the trigger to recenter side to side pose.

Yeah, I thought Splinter Cell over-complicated the issue of forward speed (as did H&D2). For any pose there really only have to be two speeds - max (by default), and a slower stealthier speed should the "slow" key be pressed (either hold down or toggle).

With continuous pose changing implemented, this still amounts to every possible speed under the sun - i.e. lower = slower.

Prospero

[Gameer 0]

Well, I'd say that the WASD keys would be better suited for moving whilst you are leaning, so you don't always have to stretch right the way over to move...

[Prospero 1]

Well, I'd say that the WASD keys would be better suited for moving whilst you are leaning, so you don't always have to stretch right the way over to move...

Yup I agree with you. I'm completely 50/50 about the way it should be done. From my point of view, I only suggest this scheme in order to get the side to side self-centering working. There _does_ need to be side to side self-centering - the only question is how best to do it...

Prospero

[Prospero 1]

Just had a thought. Not only would one be able to lean out and aim/shoot round corners, but one would also be able to throw grenades. Throwing grenades from relative cover does sound nice. Exposing oneself completely for the whole duration of the throw is, now I think about it, why I rarely use them. Slightly unrelated to topic: I'd also halve the time it takes to throw a grenade.

EDIT: Gameer, just to clear up something I probably didn't express very well: when I said a WSAD keypress should override pose control, I meant that it would only reset the side to side pose to center. One could still use pose control for vertical adjustment whilst on the move (with any of the WSAD keys pressed). Furthermore, one could just drag the mouse further to the side to begin sidestepping if one had reached the limit of lean (with the pose control button depressed) - but obviously not whilst pressing WSAD.

But you have a good point - it _would_ be much nicer to remove this limitation. As I've mentioned before, perhaps a solution could be that quick dabs of WSAD wouldn't reset side to side pose, but any prolonged press would.

Prospero

[Gameer 0]

Quote[/b] ]But you have a good point - it _would_ be much nicer to remove this limitation. As I've mentioned before, perhaps a solution could be that quick dabs of WSAD wouldn't reset side to side pose, but any prolonged press would.

Better.

Though i'd still say just taking your finger off of the RMB would be easier...

[Gameer 0]

Quote[/b] ]But you have a good point - it _would_ be much nicer to remove this limitation. As I've mentioned before, perhaps a solution could be that quick dabs of WSAD wouldn't reset side to side pose, but any prolonged press would.

Better.

Though i'd still say just taking your finger off of the RMB would be easier...

Sorry - Double post

[Prospero 1]

Messed up post... hang on.

[Prospero 1]

Though i'd still say just taking your finger off of the RMB would be easier...

Gameer, if the side to side pose was centered on releasing the RMB, the following scenario wouldn't be possible:

1) Approach and get into position at corner of building (using WSAD).

2) Hold down RMB.

3) Dynamcially lean out round corner + adjust vertical pose if necessary (i.e. one is in pose control mode now, using mouse movement to "drag" one's pose around).

4) Release RMB.

5) Now, still leaned out, aim and shoot using normal "mouse look".

6) Hold down RMB again to lean/sidestep back behind corner (or simply use WSAD).

Prospero

[Gameer 0]

Ah, I see. Yeah, better.

[Pathy 0]

Interesting idea, but i agree with M21man it has practical complications.....one thing i would like to see is a better hit the dirt action...when your being shot at you dont lower yourself on one knee then go to prone....you dive at the ground!!!

[Prospero 1]

Yup, which is why I suggested sensing mouse velocity to solve the "unintended" crouch to prone issue. I.e. if you pull down sharply enough on the mouse while in "pose control", it means "drop prone ASAP". Animation aside, this would be very simple to implement. But one of the problems here, rather awkwardly, is that the pose changing idea (at least for multiplayer) needs to be rendered in a third person view, rather than just (unseen) in first person.

Unrelated to this thread is the matter of jumping, but I've had a few vodka & cokes, so I thought I'd mention it here since we are talking about the way in which one navigates around a 3D world.

In my view, one of the greatest failings of OFP (which I still regard as the best PC wargame ever written), is the lack of a jump function. Now, I don't want to get into a "bunny hopping" discussion (and besides, I wrote a very simple jump script ages ago which can be found in these forums). My point is just this: if OFP2 includes more indoor/CQB combat (with collision detection/handling to suit), jumping becomes necessary. The alternative (particularly with large static structures or aircraft carriers) is to modify what will be very complex 3D models such that all walkable surfaces are ramped for player access. This is very time consuming, not to mention completely unrealistic.

In short, jumping needs to happen (and I'd favour the spacebar as default).

EDIT: We could go further - if the player walks right up against a step that is too high to jump, but still low enough to climb, the jump key automatically makes him climb up it.

EDIT: Oooh just thought - pose control on ladders... so one could peek up and see what's in store... Hmmm that's going to need some thought.

Prospero

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

No to jumping, yes to mantling or climbing onto objects

[Prospero 1]

No to jumping, yes to mantling or climbing onto objects

Actually I quite like that - It hadn't occured to me that it's entirely feasible to have a climbing-type function without a jump function. Yet still, I would prefer to jump too. But anyway, I don't want to stray too far from the thread.

Prospero

[Pathy 0]

How about stamina, to stop bunny hopping in MP....lets face it, your carrying a 70kg pack and weapons and other gear in webbing, your not gonna be able to do alot of jumping...so you will probably climb up and down, and be able to do some small jumps (enough to jump across rooftops above a narrow alley, say), but not do anything max payne-ish.....

[Vognsen 0]

What about leave the prone position of the pose-control? And leave prone at a key (z) as its allways been. Then u can use the posecontrol freely lowering and incriesing your position from standing to crouch (since u cant really incriese your height from prone AND fire at the same time, so using pose-control in prone position wont give anything new to the game anyway). This would solve the problem with "accidently goto prone". What u think?

[Gameer 0]

Yes...

I wonder what the point between prone and crouch would be...crawling?

And it'd be much harder for BIS to do the prone/crouch animation and coding, I think...

[4 IN 1 0]

hum, a good idea, make most action into a single "press and drag" action instead of a bunch of keys(but anyway i get used to the RMB for sight setting so i would just change it into other not used keys........)

P.S.prone is your hold front body face down and stick to the mud while crouch is stand and move like a duck......is this clear?

[Prospero 1]

What about leave the prone position of the pose-control? And leave prone at a key (z) as its allways been. Then u can use the posecontrol freely lowering and incriesing your position from standing to crouch (since u cant really incriese your height from prone AND fire at the same time, so using pose-control in prone position wont give anything new to the game anyway). This would solve the problem with "accidently goto prone". What u think?

I think a compromise solution might be good - providing, having gone prone, one would still be able to peek up over things.

One method to achieve this could be to treat the crouch to prone and prone to crouch (i.e. the two directions) differently:

Example: the change from crouch to prone happens step fashion, but on the way back from prone to crouch, continuous "pose control" changing would be available. This could solve some of the trickier animation problems, whilst still preserving the flexibility potentially offered by pose control.

Prospero

[Prospero 1]

Decently implemented, boxing (hand to hand combat or whatever) would also be rather fun with "pose control"

Prospero

[Baphomet 0]

The problem with that dynamic leaning movement control in raven shield is the fact that you were basically stuck in place whilst fine tuning your leaning. This meant, if someone tossed a grenade or you saw someone run by your pov you couldn't dodge quickly back behind something. Which to me mitigated it's usefulness.

Also after you got up from your leaning position you were stuck in that position after you stopped using the dynamic leaning control and that just made things annoying. You had to essentially reset your posture which could mean valuable seconds lost.

Furthermore OFP had three movement speeds as I recall. Or at least one posture in which whilst standing and moving your gun would be more steady although you'd move a bit slower.

I think you used it by pressing the F key. Semi useful I suppose.

[HuNtA 0]

howabout then, U hold down the RMB to set the pose, but then, as soon as U just click the right mouse button, not holding down, your character centers themselves.

Hehe, very good idea. Would also free up the keyboard for other interactions

[crassus 0]

My two drachma, ladies and gents: (It's a slow day at work....)

LEAN/PEEK

I will be using a mouse with a thumb button, and a mousewheel that has side-to-side clicking, as evidenced in Microsoft's latest version.

1] Alternate Movement/"Pose Control": Mouse Thumb Button.

Clicking and holding this button allows for the talked-about fluid pose control. Functions: Lean/peek left or right; squat; stand. Press and hold the Thumb Button, and push the mouse left or right, up or down. Releasing the button leaves you in that pose. Also upon release of this button, your pose is "memorized" for later use (explained later). To quickly recenter from a lean, tap the mousewheel in the opposite direction. The vertical pose (your squat) is unaffected.

2] Lean/Peek: Mousewheel

Click and hold to lean left or right. This is the "big", full lean, the one you find in shooters like Raven Shield, America's Army, etc. Releasing the button centers the pose.

3] Mousewheel + Mouse Thumb Button: Here's where the "memorized" lean comes in. Clicking and holding both the Thumb Button and mouse wheel left or right will lean you out only that amount you leaned using Method # 1. Your lean is held for as long as you hold the Thumb Button, ie releasing You may lean out even further by pushing the mouse out further.

WEAPON READY

Perhaps I'm the only one who feels this way, but I've found it a bit unrealistic that my rifle was always in my shoulder, ready for action. In an effort to crank up the realism a notch, I propose that the player must now shoulder his rifle.

Shoulder Rifle or Light Machinegun: Right Mouse Button

Click and hold the Right Mouse Button to shoulder your rifle or light MG, or bring your pistol from a low ready to a high ready stance. You will not be looking through your iron sights or any optics, merely along the length of the weapon as you would see it in real life. Holding the Right Mouse Button would also slow your walk to a Shuffle. Wanna move faster? Tap (or tap and hold) the SHIFT key (my key for Run and Sprint). To bring up iron sights or optics, tap (or tap and hold?) the V key.

SUPPORTED FIRING

Sorry, if I'm hijacking the Thread, but please let me propose a few more functions.

As you climb the stairs to the apartments second floor, you tap a key which deploys your M249's bipod. You near a window sill and an icon appears letting you know you can use that sill as support for your SAW. You tap (or tap and hold?) the SPACE bar (my Use Object/Perform Action key) and your SAW is rested on its bipod in the window sill!!!! Move the mouse left or right up and down to aim your weapon (and it's a realistic sequence, none of this spinning as if you've a pole up your bum). Using WASD allows you to reposition your weapon a bit. Release (or again tap) the Space bar to Pick up your SAW. Also, with your SAW supported, pressing and holding the Right Mouse Button will bring up your iron sights/optics.

MOVEMENT

I'll just fire off my suggestions--next shift's coming in.

Standard Movement: WASD

But the default movement is a march/walk, rifle in hand at the low ready.

Run: Shift

Tap left Shift to start a run

Spring: Shift

Press and Hold left Shift to sprint.

All of this is effected by the type and weight of your load.

[nephilim 0]

id liek to see diffrentr runnig speeds

like E = fast sprint

W normal jogging

W+SHIFT SLOW (LIKE WITH F)

F SLOW (Slower th ecurrent F)

and also leaning like

Alt pressed and move mouse left/right

difftrent crawl speeds..

specially liek snipers low crawl etc

[Necromancer- 0]

or determine the speed with the mouse wheel... like in Splinter Cell.

[Silver Falcon 0]

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard311/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST&f=57&t=37228&st=15&entry667749

I posted my suggestion on covering motions to "animations thread".

It does not use mouse but keys.

Maybe its not so fluid like with mouse, but I thing its far quicker (and so much more practical), easier to implement (i could do this myself in OFP if i can change buttons since I made leaning for myself, well it would take some time), you can change pose and still aim at targets in same moment.

Then I found this thred anf found nearly same idea, but harder to implement.