French headscarf ban recommended

[ralphwiggum 6]

yes, that the truth. a lot did chant. I honestly cannot and ,of course, will not sit here and defend their chants. They were pleased with what happened cuz they tie the U.S. into the whole palestinian conflict. The unconditional support for israel and all, it gets them aggravated. Anyway, they saw him as a figure who would stand up for them, unlike their governments. It wasn't until the terror attacks came back to them that they realized obl was a bastard and is no savior. Its real strange and sad. It (the quran) says suicide i wrong, yet they support 9/11. When u ask them if the prophet would get on a plane and comit suicide they stay silent. They are brainwashed fools. They need better governments, one with their interest in mind. They focus the people on the plight of the muslim world, at the hands of the christans for example, to distract from the sh!t hole they live in.

glad to hear that. as the old saying goes, there are idiots on both sides

although i have to object about your shit hole condition.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]I really want to know why SA won't look happily on Christian missionaries there

Mecca and Medina, at least in my opinion. They need to preserve Islam especially for those 2 cities for the entire muslim population and future muslims to come.

Mecca and Median, i really don't care, but how about Riyahd?

Quote[/b] ]Like i say, practice what you like, i practice what i like as long as our practices dont hurt each other.

agreed. that is one way of putting it.

Quote[/b] ]Those that get on tv, the ones chanting, are the vocal minority.

just look at some gov't that ended up with vocal minority getting power. it is a problem. most poeple don't want extreme ideals, but also there are lack of awareness for need to prevent such take over.

[Pukko 0]

When reading this thread I come to think about some interesting stuff that Mattias Gardell (brother to the Swedish almost 'national gay' Jonas Gardell) told on a lecture the other week.

According to him the burkha in Afghanistan is no older than 100 years. It was introduced as a gift by a prince (or equal) to his wifes as a status symbol, and later more and more other women started using it.

My speculative addition ---> Today it might however have lost some of its original function and symbolism, and been reduced to an conservative and traditional 'principle'. But when you look at it, its no cheap rag they are wearing, but a rather exclusive piece of clothing - that furthermore can fill an function during hot or cold weather.

The stereotype of ones enemy men oppressing their women is a very old alienation strategy. From a Muslim occidentalist point of view the western men can be seen oppressing their women by having them wear makeup, doing pornography and putting in silicon in their bodies.

Gardell (might have been an other lecturer, not sure) also told about an interview he made with an New age promoting woman in Stockholm. Once she had seen an individual dressed in a burkha type clothing in the subway. She then went over to tell her not to hide herslef, to become the free person she was. When Gardell (or whoever) then asked how she could be so sure that the woman in the subway really tried to hide herself and not the other way around, she just went quiet.

And lastly mr Gardell seemed to like talking about mr Kadhafi of Lebanon, and they had obviously met on at least one occation. He told amongst many other interesting things about what Kadhafi had done that he decided (and thereby once more breaking the Majlis al-sura) that also women should be allowed to marry up to 4 men, under the condition that she can treat them equally...

[ralphwiggum 6]

Although this discussion wasn't at all similar to that one I gained some useful insights and surprised myself by running off to the nationalist right, something I never thought would happen  

Anyway, good discussion  

so tomorrow, i can expect you to lead invasion into Norway.

i should warn other neighbors too.

[python3 0]

Quote[/b] ]although i have to object about your shit hole condition.  

i was referring to the arab countries run by the biggest morons of the 20th century.

Quote[/b] ]Mecca and Median, i really don't care, but how about Riyahd?

well, see, it is one country, so the whole thing is viewed as being holy, even those are the two most important cities. The bottom line is non-muslims cannot be in charge of the nation that houses those two cities.

[ralphwiggum 6]

And lastly mr Gardell seemed to like talking about mr Kadhafi of Lebanon, and they had obviously met on at least one occation. He told amongst many other interesting things about whay Kadhafi had done that he decided (and thereby once more breaking the Majlis al-sura) that also women should be allowed to marry up to 4 men, under the condition that she can treat them equally...

i have no problem. like men, women an have 4 husbands too under same criteira.

i was referring to the arab countries run by the biggest morons of the 20th century.

yes, i object that you call arab countries shitholes.

Quote[/b] ]The bottom line is non-muslims cannot be in charge of the nation that houses those two cities.

i'm not asking for soverignty, but for letting Jehova's Witnesses do missionary work there(places other than Mecca and Medina). oh, wait, that was cruel and unusual punishment.

[python3 0]

Quote[/b] ]just look at some gov't that ended up with vocal minority getting power. it is a problem. most poeple don't want extreme ideals, but also there are lack of awareness for need to prevent such take over.

well, why hasn't egypt become a theocracy yet. The muslim brotherhood was strong in the '80's, they even assassinated the all powerful president. The reason for this is that the people did not back them. Look at them now. They have been forced to become a political party. Egypt fought its war on terror through the '80's and '90's, believe me, the people know about extremists. They killed many arabs, and destroyed the economy long before they chose to target the US. Like i said, it was the supporters of such groups that get publicity. My cousins werent out there.

[python3 0]

Quote[/b] ]yes, i object that you call arab countries shitholes.

ahh, very nice

hehe, just out of curiosity, which ones? Maybe shitholes wasnt the correct terminology, but hopefully u get my drift.

Quote[/b] ]i'm not asking for soverignty, but for letting Jehova's Witnesses do missionary work there(places other than Mecca and Medina). oh, wait, that was cruel and unusual punishment.

hehe, yes they have came a'knockin on my door a couple of times. Just argue with them for 5 min. about ur religion vs. mines, and they wont come knockin again .

[ralphwiggum 6]

true. Luxor attack was the last straw on camel's back. problem is people in mass tend to sometimes make crucial mistakes in choosing leadership. and that should be avoided.

Quote[/b] ]hehe, just out of curiosity, which ones? Maybe shitholes wasnt the correct terminology, but hopefully u get my drift.

personally, as long as people can live decently, have running waters, decent hospitals, good economy, great food, decent domestic security, and electricity, they are not shitholes. there might be arguments about lack of internet and such, but they are not the basic needs of life.

so a shithole, in my defintion would be lack of more than half of those criterias mentioned. and i think there are no or little nations like that in ME.

[python3 0]

Quote[/b] ]personally, as long as people can live decently, have running waters, decent hospitals, good economy, great food, decent domestic security, and electricity, they are not shitholes. there might be arguments about lack of internet and such, but they are not the basic needs of life.

well, some areas still lack these necessities, but yes for the most part u are correct. I was referring to their political + economic problems.

Quote[/b] ]problem is people in mass tend to sometimes make crucial mistakes in choosing leadership. and that should be avoided.

well, as of now, they have never had the opportunity to choose anyone, so we will see if the new "democratic" initiatives being undertaken by the government is more than the usual load of bs. It seems that they are getting nailed by people at home and the US abroad for democracy. Anyway, again, to the best of my knowledge, most Egyptian muslims wish no one harm and wont run off to a foreign land fighting for a wacko for Allah (SWT).

[Acecombat 0]

Quote[/b] ]Then why is not there drivers license granted for women, and Arabs are infuriated that white women walking around showing her flesh is attack on Islam?

Oh God havent i told you already this place is a bit backwards when it comes to modernizing and liberalizing Islamic laws and followign thm to their full EXTENT. Islam doesnt negates women driving around

The white woman part is stupid

Quote[/b] ]I think this post summarizes my point. Muslims are afraind to take care of the situation. they are not strong enough to deal with materialism. furthermore, they lost their true spirit and values. so in reality, what they practice now is not a true Islam, but a broken one. Then how can you mention Islam when the one that is in place right now are nothing more than a misled version of it? I think citing Islam under above given situation is nothing but CS claiming to be OFP.

Muslims arent afraid , they are mis-led by a few corrupt individuals in the govt believe me a GOOD tru and honest person leading SA's govt can bring about a revoltuionary change here , also its interepreting Islamic laws and confroming them to modern era is on of the biggest obstacls Islam is facing , people ar stuck in th last century even though they need to open their window and see whats happnd in all these years.

Quote[/b] ]and that is closed. how about some Christian saying that other heathens should not marry Christians until they convert? same deal. there are several non-muslim women who marry into muclim family, but will be pushed to convert, while as exit from it is not as easy as conversion. so what if a daughter raised in islam household, decided to marry a christian, and want her to convert to christianity, would that be a rpoblem? yes. according to your arguments, Islam should be the foremost object of conversion, no the otherway around. that is being closed

No that is not closed .Tll me if you had a daughter and she chose to marry a man whos a theif , an adulterator and nearly everything your beliefs didnt stood for would you let your daughter marr yhim for the sake of her temporary enjoyment or ask her not to marry him ?

NOTE: I am not comparing christaianity or anyother religion to that persons attribute just giving you a nice analogy asto what decision would you take if th other party was standing in opposing beliefs of yours.

Quote[/b] ]and it happened, and will. although sharias are not publicly condeming US, they don't hesistate to do so if they can. just after 9-11, i heard less of "Blast those bastards who deface the name of Allah" then "US got what it asked for."

even in your post, you talk about how bad US is, while giving a mere slap on the wrist on the likes of OBL.

Whats a sharia ? .... more mis-conceptualization i see.

I never mentiond OBL in my post or DID i? Need i mention who was behind OBL's support and his creation ....

Quit arguing over the fact that everything that US has done so far hasnt had a negative influence on the Islamic world it has in some instances and in some instances it s been mis-read.

Quote[/b] ]yes, you are to be blamed, are you telling me that CIA paid those people to dance on the street? if your claim of true islam is applied, it should be that these people tak about how they are misrepresented, not chanting. It is always easier to blame foreign country, and it goes for every nation.

Completely lost track of you here

Quote[/b] ]furthermore, you want to make a game that sells? make something that is at least intriguing. one reason why I like OFP is that it was more close to neutral when it came to story line(although most Russian memebers don't think so ). HOw about those muslim kiddies that want to kill Americans on games? only difference is that its the other way around. while you are comdeming the idiotic nature of such games, when it's in your advange, you don't think it's wrong.

I have yet to see a game manufactured by a MUSLIM company targetted at specifically stereotyping a certain race and exploiting it tp sell the product , very lame answer that of yours .

I have also yet to see a muslim gneration of youngsters dying to kill americans in VR

Quote[/b] ]How about the fact that Muslims were able to get to Spain through North Africa? are you saying they were merely misisonaries? no. they were there with swords. if Charlemagne did not defeat them in Spain, the muslim warriors would have gone further. are you saying that is ok? is that a some lie that europeans concocted? I guess Eastern Roman empire decided to abandon their defense and let Islamic solders march in.

and also, the quote you replied was to show how unfitting your argument of pure Islam is in place right now, and should not be held accountable.

God damn youre seriously UN-INFORMED

Islamic warriors very nice term you got there

Muslims under the caliphs rule never attacked UNLESS unprovoked or attacked by someone else first ... need i remind the hostilities we had to face from Byzantine and Persian ? They sent in army's twice or even quadraple our size to beat us though they got their asses handed out in a silver platter .

Islam hasnt got no xpansionist policy if thats what you think , islam cannot be spread by sword , belief is never spread from force it canonly be impressed upon.

Thats the reason why i support the ntrance of CHRISTAIN AND JEWISH missionaries in my city atleast ... i'll mak sure they leave as MUSLIMS

P.S: One of my cousins in america often has Jhovahs witness coming to his house he usually welcomes thm and instead preaches islam to them that way they usually dont stick around for more thn 5 mins , i say bring them down here ... ia m allrady with a RED CARPET personally

[python3 0]

Quote[/b] ]Islam hasnt got no xpansionist policy if thats what you think , islam cannot be spread by sword , belief is never spread from force it canonly be impressed upon.

true, the prophet, said "The pen is mightier than the sword" thus it should be spread by knowledge and works etc.

Quote[/b] ]Whats a sharia ? .... more mis-conceptualization i see

Think he meant sheikh or imam...

[ralphwiggum 6]

Quote[/b] ]Then why is not there drivers license granted for women, and Arabs are infuriated that white women walking around showing her flesh is attack on Islam?

Oh God havent i told you already this place is a bit backwards when it comes to modernizing and liberalizing Islamic laws and followign thm to their full EXTENT. Islam doesnt negates women driving around  

The white woman part is stupid  

yes, it's stupid and there isn't much done on the part of those who needs to point it out to their brothers.

So if male and female are equal and can pass driving tests under same condition, why not? I read some statistics that in private, about 40% of women in  SA know how to drive, but there isn't much of drier license.

Quote[/b] ]Muslims arent afraid , they are mis-led by a few corrupt individuals in the govt believe me a GOOD tru and honest person leading SA's govt can bring about a revoltuionary change here , also its interepreting Islamic laws and confroming them to modern era is on of the biggest obstacls Islam is facing , people ar stuck in th last century even though they need to open their window and see whats happnd in all these years.

the more you wait, the harder it will be to deal with.

Quote[/b] ]No that is not closed .Tll me if you had a daughter and she chose to marry a man whos a theif , an adulterator and nearly everything your beliefs didnt stood for would you let your daughter marr yhim for the sake of her temporary enjoyment or ask her not to marry him ?

NOTE: I am not comparing christaianity or anyother religion to that persons attribute just giving you a nice analogy asto what decision would you take  if th other party was standing in opposing beliefs of yours.

how about this. would you stop your daughtere from a nice christian boy? although he did not do above mentioned things? even in christian world, such boy would not be a good choice, so your example serves no purpose.

Quote[/b] ]Whats a sharia ?   .... more mis-conceptualization i see.

I never mentiond OBL in my post or DID i? Need i mention who was behind OBL's support and his creation ....

Quit arguing over the fact that everything that US has done so far hasnt had a negative influence on the Islamic world it has in some instances and in some instances it s been mis-read.

and yet, US is mentioned montly in contect of evil doings.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]yes, you are to be blamed, are you telling me that CIA paid those people to dance on the street? if your claim of true islam is applied, it should be that these people tak about how they are misrepresented, not chanting. It is always easier to blame foreign country, and it goes for every nation.

Completely lost track of you here  

in other words, there is a grea deal of spiritual reevaluation and application of 'true' islam is needed, instead od blaming others for most things.

Quote[/b] ]I have yet to see a game manufactured by a MUSLIM company targetted at specifically stereotyping a certain race and exploiting it tp sell the product , very lame answer that of yours .

I have also yet to see a muslim gneration of youngsters dying to kill americans in VR  

yes, cause they don't make it or market it nicely. who would have though some small game developers from Czech republic would end up making tools that USMC uses? How many decent games can Muslim nations make? any mods for other ames that gain wide popularity? in short, instead of complaining about how others make you look bad, make a good product that can counter it.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]How about the fact that Muslims were able to get to Spain through North Africa? are you saying they were merely misisonaries? no. they were there with swords. if Charlemagne did not defeat them in Spain, the muslim warriors would have gone further. are you saying that is ok? is that a some lie that europeans concocted? I guess Eastern Roman empire decided to abandon their defense and let Islamic solders march in.

and also, the quote you replied was to show how unfitting your argument of pure Islam is in place right now, and should not be held accountable.

God damn youre seriously UN-INFORMED  

Islamic warriors very nice term you got there  

Muslims under the caliphs rule never attacked UNLESS unprovoked or attacked by someone else first ... need i remind the hostilities we had to face from Byzantine and Persian ? They sent in army's twice or even quadraple our size to beat us though they got their asses handed out in a silver platter   .

Islam hasnt got no xpansionist policy if thats what you think , islam cannot be spread by sword , belief is never spread from force it canonly be impressed upon.

Thats the reason why i support the ntrance of CHRISTAIN AND JEWISH missionaries in my city atleast ... i'll mak sure they leave as MUSLIMS  

it's a historical fact that Muslims managed to go into Spain through North Africa. and Bizantine would not have happened if it weren't for fusion of Roman and Islamic culture.

and you are seriously misinformed too. there is a reason why the history described muslims as 'holding Quran in one hand, and sword in the other.'

Quote[/b] ]P.S: One of my cousins in america often has Jhovahs witness coming to his house he usually welcomes thm and instead preaches islam to them that way they usually dont stick around for more thn 5 mins    , i say bring them down here ... ia m allrady with a RED CARPET personally

last time Bush said 'Bring them on', guess what happened.

sheikh or imam

oops sorry. sheikh. product of American education system.

[Baron von Beer 0]

Hey, don't dog on the US public education... I went, and I are very smart! (Well, went till Junior year, then took an unusual path to completion. )

[toadlife 3]

But what does taking that t-shirt away change? Nothing, he'd still be a nazi.

Don't take it away. Send him away. Let him know that the symbol of racism is so vile that his presence will not be tolerated in a civil society.

This is sadly elementary. I'm surprised that I even have to mention this.

Actually, things are getting less surprising as we move along.

Unfortunately, wearing a swastika doesn't break any laws over here. So until he starts offending other students because of their religion or colour there's nothing we could do.

It would more likely to be illegal to kick him out just because he's a nazi.

tol·er·ant

adj.

1. Inclined to tolerate the beliefs, practices, or traits of others; forbearing. See Synonyms at broad-minded.

2. Able to withstand or endure an adverse environmental condition: plants tolerant of extreme heat.

French tolérant, from Latin tolerns, present participle of tolerre, to bear.

As much as Nazi types are offensive, I value my right to walk down the street with a big red swastika on my chest. The 'Let's just pretend it never happened and/or that it doesn't exist anymore' attitude is a very dangerous one. By making these abhorrent expressions illegal, all you are doing is, in vein, trying to hide from yourself the fact that people do have these ideas and beliefs and you are for a lack of better words, 'setting yourself up for an ambush'.

While I understand that deliberately trying to incite a riot, or expressly promoting violence should be tempered, the right to express an overwhelmingly unpopular idea, without fear of reprisal from the government is something that should be cherished above all else.

Unfortunately, after reading this thread, it obvious that this may not be the case in must of the "tolerant" and "liberal" countries in Europe mentioned in this thread.

In anticipation of the reply "but displaying a swastika would incite a riot in my country, therefore it should be illegal", then perhaps you should question how 'tolerant' your country really is.

Riots tend to happen in countries where the people are free, but they tend to not destroy the country. There have been some real doosies here in the states, but our country still manages to chug along year after year. The riots we have had have promoted dialogue between opposing sides, and in the end have helped to bring people together.

On the other hand, it seems when people's right to express themselves is severely choked, the "occasional riot" is more likely to become the "occasional overthrow of the government".

From the discussion I've read so far, it seems to me the France wants to ban students from wearing 'religious' articles of clothing, because it offends them. if so, my question is why does it offend you?

The same type of BS does happens here in the states, but usually things are sorted out in the courts and the right descision is made in the end. A good example: In New York, someone complained and a school there banned the display of a nativity scene on the school grounds. The problem with this is the nativity scene was done by a student for a multicultural holiday display, and The Star and Crescent representing Islam and the Jewish Menora were also part of the display, but they were allowed to stay!

A parent is rightfully suing the school over this. She will either win, or the court will rule that the school must take down ever other display.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,104916,00.html

I hope she wins.

Forgive the Fox News link. I know many around here have a disdain for Fox News.

It seems to me that the majority of the "tolerant" people in this world only practice their tolerance when it is convenient or comfortable for them.

[theavonlady 2]

As much as Nazi types are offensive, I value my right to walk down the street with a big red swastika on my chest. The 'Let's just pretend it never happened and/or that it doesn't exist anymore' attitude is a very dangerous one. By making these abhorrent expressions illegal, all you are doing is, in vein, trying to hide from yourself the fact that people do have these ideas and beliefs and you are for a lack of better words, 'setting yourself up for an ambush'.

How nauseating.

Can you also walk down the street with a T-shirt saying "Cremate Jews" or "Lynch Blacks"?

Quote[/b] ]I hope she wins.

Me, too.

[toadlife 3]

Can you also walk down the street with a T-shirt saying "Cremate Jews" or "Lynch Blacks"?

Probably. Though, you might run into trouble with the authorities in some states/localities with something that explicit.

Quote[/b] ]How nauseating.

Yes. Disturbing, but neccesary.

[ozanzac 0]

Quote[/b] ]Click here for Fox News Channel's fair and balanced report.

 You know. Most news services simply don't have to do that. Other news services don't need to convince their viewers that their report is 'fair and balanced'. They expect that to already be the case.

But on a more serious note. I expect equality for all. No doubt. But mayby pushing to completly ban all religous 'objects' from state run schools is a little to PC. (Politically Correct).

Mayby kids should be allowed to have religous objects that aren't visible to the eye. Much like a cross on a chain worn around the neck. I don't know if other religions can show their faith through hidden or hideable 'objects'.

After all, don't most state-run schools in the western world allow for easter holidays. Now were venturing into the shaded area of whether a cultures traditions should be overruled by the need for political correctness. To be honest, if I were a minority. I would not demand change, but instead go with the flow of the people and society. After all, my ancestors were not on the first fleet, but were among the first immigrants. German/Irish, coming out well, well before the great wars, Circa 1800+ish. My heritage shows that we were quckly moulded into the melting pot. As the only relatives in Europe I know of are my fathers greek relatives. He was second generation, and is about as Australian as you can culturally get; never was the typical 'wog boy' that I've seen develop in some of my relatives, even in the third generation of his side of the family tree.

Eh, anyway. Religion should be partially tolerated in public schools, so long as it is not preached or outlandish. (Hidden religous objects would be fine and/or dandy in this system *Note the PC'ness )  

[CosmicCastaway 0]

How nauseating.

Can you be for one type of freedom of expression, and against another? You argue for the right to wear religious garb in public institutions, but are against someone expressing their alternative views (regardless of how onerous they may be) in a similar fashion?

[theavonlady 2]

How nauseating.

Can you be for one type of freedom of expression, and against another? You argue for the right to wear religious garb in public institutions, but are against someone expressing their alternative views (regardless of how onerous they may be) in a similar fashion?

I've already responded to this claim last night.

I do not believe in Freedom of expression that directly promotes violence or racism.

What does wearing religious garn have to do with directly promoting violence or racism?

[SPQR 0]

look at the slavery the egyptians forced upon the jews, the killing of infant girls because they are females. Religion came in and banned this action. Did man listen, no, slavery continued and females in india and other places are still killed for being girls. Obviously religion made a difference on some of the population, everyone in the world does not do this. Who knows what it would be like if there was no religion.  Who knows. Maybe we would have stopped all that, maybe not.

As for you not seeing anyhting wrong with premarital sex and cursing. Well, ill let cussing slip. As for the sex, that is where you and i are light years apart. If that is one value that is a result of too much interaction between men and women in your countires in school and work, then i must say i cannot see anything wrong with muslim women wearing hijab or keeping distance from them. If they fear that this interaction might lead to such temptations, then by all means they should keep away.

The antic egyptians (before invasions) NEVER had to use slavery for Labour.

World Archeologists and Historians proved that the story of Moesus (? ,MoÄse in French, sorry) and thir slavery, as it was written, never existed.

Nearly each civilization with great religions had a past of slavery or servile work, except a few ones (jews I thinks, eskimos, papous, ...)

On the opposite, Religion maybe one of the first factors that help mankind to evolve from the basics needs of the animal reign

[ozanzac 0]

On the opposite, Religion maybe one of the first factors that help mankind to evolve from the basics needs of the animal reign

I agree. But after around the year 1500, when modern history starts according to the years work I recently finished, religion seemed to become more and more remote, and inhibited the growth of sciences, and cultures. But it depends on which end of the rope you were at.

[theavonlady 2]

World Archeologists and Historians proved that the story of Moesus (? ,MoÄse in French, sorry) and thir slavery, as it was written, never existed.

LOL!

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

Where does Jesus teach me to kill? Church and religion are still sort of two different things. The church is run by humans, which we know are prone to mistakes. The pope ordered crusades to the Holy Land because he thought it belonged to christians. That's what he said anyways. It was more about keeping the catholic kings fighting each other. Better to have a common enemy than to kill your own. Jesus teaches us to be satisfied with what we have and not to reach for power and gold. What were the crusades mostly about? Money, lots of it.

Christianity alone didn't cause deaths, it was the people abusing it.

Discussions like these tend to end up in flamefests so let's try to keep this civil, shall we?

'I come not to bring peace, but a sword; to set brother against sister, father against son, mother against daughter' (or words to that effect)

There are plenty of other quotes where Jesus either is blatantly racist (calling people of other races 'dogs') or condones violence.

Religion is dying out in educated countries. That is a good thing.

[SPQR 0]

The conflict point, in my opinion, in this topic, is that each of us has a certain understanding and definition of the concept of tolerance.

AceCombat and Python3 seem to be fully-dedicated believers of their faith, tolerence is defined by their country culture and their faith, and experience of occidental political an social colonization in the past.

Avonlady lives in a country that is in war which don't want to tell its name. Her culture and her family hardly survived diasporas and Shoah from europeans and middle-eastern people (should I have to speak about Bbylone ?) not because their native country bore mineral wealth, but because their monothestic religion wasn't recognized by Powers (I won't talk about anathematizing, from ALL SIDES, in books and history...)

Others define tolerence from the Religions Wars experiences in their History.

And please stop accusing others from having fired a gun at first, our ancesters would be able to understand the current world, and NO major civilization or monotheist religion bear no blood on its hands...

[SPQR 0]

World Archeologists and Historians proved that the story of Moesus (? ,MoÄse in French, sorry) and thir slavery, as it was written, never existed.

LOL!

But they also prooved that some point were fairly exact and correctly described