French headscarf ban recommended

[Acecombat 0]

Another mis concpetion HIP HIP HURRAH  

Islam doesnt dictates you to hve many marriages only one at a TIME those who say otherwise are once again LIARS i can quote myself from the QURAN  

NO short form marriages either thats european style is i can remmber cotract marriages and stuff  

No, they're not liers, they're Sh'ia from Iran. What my persian neighbour has told me: A man can have three wifes + an unlimited number of short term marrriges (don't remember the name) - which were basically for sex only  (only one at the time + the three original wives). Women can only marry once.

I'll ask her tomorrow and post the technical term for it (i.e arabic name).

well, the shia minority is very different from the sunni majority. I myself have know many shias and have never heard this. But i would not be surprised.

AFAIK, in islam a man can have up to 3 wives as long as:

a)he gets the permission of the 1st wife, then the 1st + the 2nd

b) he treats them equally

c)financial equality + no favorites

most men cannot meet such requirements so their multiple marriages are forbidden by religion. there are more requirements, but that is the major ones.

No python sad to see that you also arent sure about this but thats a VERY BIG MISCONCEPTION around here ....

There is no way you can have more then one wife at a time , only after your present wife is dead can you marry another.

[turms 0]

Just to show you what i mean in REALITY:

Quote[/b] ]Marry women of ye choice ,Two or three or four BUT if ye fear ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them) , then only one , or that your right hands possess , that will be more suitable , to prevent you from doing injustice

Chapter 4 Verse 3 if i remember correctly . now you can disect this verse n anyway and make it work for you  

Get my drift , people have deliberately mis contrued this to be able to take advantage of 3-4 women  

Since you can and never will be able to deal with 3-4 women justly in terms of marriage.

The point was here that it is possible to do so, within the limits of Islam, and im sure many people are using that oppoturnity.

[python3 0]

damn sunday school..... well i guess we are all misinformed sometimes. Will ask around tho

[Acecombat 0]

Quote[/b] ]The poiny was here that it is possible to do so, within the limits of Islam, and im sure many people are using that oppoturnity.

No theres no possibility of IT !

How can you deal with 3-4 women JUSTLY and IN PERFECT EQUALITY no way in hell were a human bound to make a mistake thats why the Quran gave this analogy so 'you' can understand th reason behind not allowing it.

[ralphwiggum 6]

I've noticed I've gone middle-of-the-road-liberal to its-us-or-them-right-wing. Ok? If this is how people are presenting Islam to us (with arguments like "We'll just outgrow you in numbers and take over your continent"), then there is no surprise that there are growing tensions.

And I'm very liberal by nature - ask anybody on these forums. If you manage to push me away so far to the to the right, then I'm scared to think of what more intolerant persons can be driven to do.

see, denoir, you were a conservative in denial. welcome back, our lost brother.

back on serious note.

I've had some female Muslim TA(Teaching Assistants) in college and when i tried to thank her with a handshake, she politely told me that her religion said it is not promoted. I didn't take offense at that and had no problems.

However, I see some people saying that Islam is religion of peace and news about women being degraded is not the way it is supposed to be. I'd say, that's a form of denial.

First, muslims around the world seems to be more closed than they claim to be. My colleagues from India(Hindus) made comments that in India, Muslims are the most segregated sector. they won't let other religions enter their family. When a Hindu woman marries a muslim, she is asked to convert, while as muslim woman are not allowed to, or say at least discouraged from marrying someone outside and convert to husband's religion.

Second, while US troops were stationed in SA, the commanders ordered female troops to go out with a male counter part to avoid some SArabians from complaining that a white woman doing her job on streets alone would not be appropriate.

Furthermore, what 911 showed was that muslims need to get themselves straghtened out. Muslims say they are peaceful, but when the two buildings colapsed, there were chanting throughout the Arab world. If Islamic teaching is forbidding such action, why did these people chant OBL and still not take actions against him better?

Muslim clerks always point out that it is US's fault for something bad happening, but they fail to regulate themselves as decribed above. Even our muslim forum members say that they are not supposed to be that way, but that's just a sentence, and next thing you notice is that they go on how evil US is and in some sense it is US's fault.

If we turn this argument around, the Crusades and colonization of ME can be justified. The christianity is a religion of peace and does not promote such actions as well as islam does. So it is unfortunate that some people used Christianity as an excuse, but it is not the way christianity should be.

One can always claim that they are a peaceful religion, but their actions may not say so. Muslim always talk about how christianity is sipping into their life, but they do not want to hear how some christians complain the otherwise.

I really want to know why SA won't look happily on Christian missionaries there.

What are Muslims afraid of? the Great satan taking over Mecca? The closed community of muslim poeple need to acknowledge that in living, you need to give and get.

For those who want to not wear hijab, they should be allowed to, but i suspect there are peer/community pressure. Don't get me wrong, it is a great way to protect from winds and etc. it's not like something that will take 2 hours to put on and take off and put constraint on women's health. But if Muslims think the core of Islamic teachings will prevail, why are they worried about people wearing certain clothings? IT's not what's outside, it's what's inside.

I'd really love to see Muslims open up and have churchs right next to mosques, and bless the duaghters that marry men from other religion as much as they do with those who marry fellow muslims.

[denoir 0]

denoir, im not trying to present any threat. Honestly. Im not saying that the whole population thing is gonna happen. But it is a possibility correct. It was meant more as a what would you do if it came down to that. Im just providing points of circumstances that may happen.

It certainly comes off as a threat. There is obviously a difference in culture and saying "well, we don't like it so we'll just take over your continent and implement what we like" does not exactly make things better. On the contrary this is the type of stuff that racists and bigots thrive on. In turn it will result, like it has in the Netherlands that right-wing nationalists will be elected through the fear of the people and we'll all be worse off. I tell you, this is not a wise approach to solving such issues. Many westernes see Islam as a threat without you actually saying anything and this kind of talk blows it up to new heights.

Quote[/b] ]See about the genocide, you said any means necessary. I wrote that that was vague and could also mean genocide. I never said that is what you meant or want.

Any means necessary is what we are seeing today with this veil business. It's about stepping away from our normal liberal standards. And as I said this law has come into place in France exactly because people are becoming more and more xenophobic. It's in human nature. There are not many places in the world where you have a population that consists of groups that have completely different cultures. And it's nasty that it can't be worked out and I'd hate it to continue that way in Europe as it is not consistent with our ideals. But given a choice of us vs. them, people will always choose "us". And the big segregation is leading to exactly such a standpoint.

[turms 0]

Quote[/b] ]The poiny was here that it is possible to do so, within the limits of Islam, and im sure many people are using that oppoturnity.

No theres no possibility of IT !

How can you deal with 3-4 women JUSTLY and IN PERFECT EQUALITY no way in hell were a human bound to make a mistake thats why the Quran gave this analogy so 'you' can understand th reason behind not allowing it.

Now that is how YOU interpritate it. I am sure there are other interpritations about the issue. What makes you think that your interpritation is the best and the only one? Is Islam like you say it is or should we look at it as a religion of masses instead of looking your interpritation on the issue.

[ralphwiggum 6]

ahh, fuck, forgot to add my ontopic reply.

Do i care about Muslims wearing hijab on campus. hell no. Do i think French decisions on matter are ridiculous. yes.

i don't think wearing a christian cross, hijab, or jewish cap(sorry don't know the name ) promotes particular religion. as long as they do not pose threat to studen't health, i say why bother. but as long as you are taking public help, then you need to open yourself for such arrangments if necessary. would not wearing hijab cause some grave ill to student? no. so why get so upset about it?

[python3 0]

Quote[/b] ]I'd really love to see Muslims open up and have churchs right next to mosques, and bless the duaghters that marry men from other religion as much as they do with those who marry fellow muslims.

Man, u should go to Egypt someday. We hav a whole coptic miority there with their own pope.

As for the second part, ehhh......, i honestly dont see that happenning as most muslim women will want muslim husbands, and i think that is prohibited.

[turms 0]

Quote[/b] ]There are not many places in the world where you have a population that consists of groups that have completely different cultures.

I just watched a movie called Gangs of New York It was about irish hordes moving to NY in 1863.

They had difficult time there becouse of prejudice, different religion, and commonly adapting in to the society. In some way the muslims in france reminds me of this movie, maybe something we can learn from the history?

[denoir 0]

I think also, one thing that hasn't come out quite clear here is that there is a difference between the local cultures of the arabic/african/asian islamic countries and Islam itself.

I don't think that Islam per se is seen as a problem in general, but more a very conservative attachement to the originating culture. And I'm fairly certain that many cultures are misinterpreting and abusing Islam (as is usually the case with any practical application of religion on state-level). Just as an example we can take the "honor killing" part.

Apart from that, I think Ralph (who would have thought ) made several good points in his longer post.

[ralphwiggum 6]

Quote[/b] ]I'd really love to see Muslims open up and have churchs right next to mosques, and bless the duaghters that marry men from other religion as much as they do with those who marry fellow muslims.

Man, u should go to Egypt someday. We hav a whole coptic miority there with their own pope.

Egypt, as well as Turkey seems to be a good example of how Islam can reinvent itself. My colleague's roommate is from Turkey and he is a muslim, but do i see him dating 3 women? no. He is quite secular and so is his parent(whom i had chance to meet).

Quote[/b] ]As for the second part, ehhh......, i honestly dont see that happenning as most muslim women will want muslim husbands, and i think that is prohibited.

of course, background does matter in a relationship, but not always. and as you mentioned, it is 'prohibited'. and i beleive it is more of cultural issue and not legla issue, which is more dependent on people to change.

[ralphwiggum 6]

I just watched a movie called Gangs of New York It was about irish hordes moving to NY in 1863.

They had difficult time there becouse of prejudice, different religion, and commonly adapting in to the society. In some way the muslims in france reminds me of this movie, maybe something we can learn from the history?

yes. make sure there are no Leo DiCaprio equivalent from Muslim world. we already have one Leo and it's bad enough.....(flashbacks to Titanic)

Apart from that, I think Ralph (who would have thought ) made several good points in his longer post.

so you joining GOP here any soon?

GOP might help you with Operation: Invade and Plunder Finland.

[Acecombat 0]

I've noticed I've gone middle-of-the-road-liberal to its-us-or-them-right-wing. Ok? If this is how people are presenting Islam to us (with arguments like "We'll just outgrow you in numbers and take over your continent"), then there is no surprise that there are growing tensions.

And I'm very liberal by nature - ask anybody on these forums. If you manage to push me away so far to the to the right, then I'm scared to think of what more intolerant persons can be driven to do.

see, denoir, you were a conservative in denial. welcome back, our lost brother.  

back on serious note.

I've had some female Muslim TA(Teaching Assistants) in college and when i tried to thank her with a handshake, she politely told me that her religion said it is not promoted. I didn't take offense at that and had no problems.

However, I see some people saying that Islam is religion of peace and news about women being degraded is not the way it is supposed to be. I'd say, that's a form of denial.

First, muslims around the world seems to be more closed than they claim to be. My colleagues from India(Hindus) made comments that in India, Muslims are the most segregated sector. they won't let other religions enter their family. When a Hindu woman marries a muslim, she is asked to convert, while as muslim woman are not allowed to, or say at least discouraged from marrying someone outside and convert to husband's religion.

Second, while US troops were stationed in SA, the commanders ordered female troops to go out with a male counter part to avoid some SArabians from complaining that a white woman doing her job on streets alone would not be appropriate.

Furthermore, what 911 showed was that muslims need to get themselves straghtened out. Muslims say they are peaceful, but when the two buildings colapsed, there were chanting throughout the Arab world. If Islamic teaching is forbidding such action, why did these people chant OBL and still not take actions against him better?

Muslim clerks always point out that it is US's fault for something bad happening, but they fail to regulate themselves as decribed above. Even our muslim forum members say that they are not supposed to be that way, but that's just a sentence, and next thing you notice is that they go on how evil US is and in some sense it is US's fault.

If we turn this argument around, the Crusades and colonization of ME can be justified. The christianity is a religion of peace and does not promote such actions as well as islam does. So it is unfortunate that some people used Christianity as an excuse, but it is not the way christianity should be.

One can always claim that they are a peaceful religion, but their actions may not say so. Muslim always talk about how christianity is sipping into their life, but they do not want to hear how some christians complain the otherwise.

I really want to know why SA won't look happily on Christian missionaries there.

What are Muslims afraid of? the Great satan taking over Mecca? The closed community of muslim poeple need to acknowledge that in living, you need to give and get.

For those who want to not wear hijab, they should be allowed to, but i suspect there are peer/community pressure. Don't get me wrong, it is a great way to protect from winds and etc. it's not like something that will take 2 hours to put on and take off and put constraint on women's health.  But if Muslims think the core of Islamic teachings will prevail, why are they worried about people wearing certain clothings? IT's not what's outside, it's what's inside.

I'd really love to see Muslims open up and have churchs right next to mosques, and bless the duaghters that marry men from other religion as much as they do with those who marry fellow muslims.

Another massively uninformed opinion , ah this is indeed getting tiring a bit i wish there were more muslims on this board other then python me and scorpio

@Ralphy:

The woman not hand shaking part is truly stupid , its her choice according to the PROPHT MUHAMMED. "actions are judged by intentions" i am sure neithr did you or her had any underlying intentions so wtf the shyness for?

Woman are not being degraded the way i see it women might be being degarded in america , but thats personal opinions , islamic laws dont degrade a women all have equal rights.

Muahhmeds words in his last sermon:

"Your wives have rights over you and you have rights over your wives both are equal" . A women in islam is treated as a equal but as a FEMALE member , theres a difference there.

Quote[/b] ]First, muslims around the world seems to be more closed than they claim to be. My colleagues from India(Hindus) made comments that in India, Muslims are the most segregated sector. they won't let other religions enter their family. When a Hindu woman marries a muslim, she is asked to convert, while as muslim woman are not allowed to, or say at least discouraged from marrying someone outside and convert to husband's religion.

Ofcourse most are close because we have been riddled with foolish leaders and lead by a bunch of goons after the original caliphate ended , muslims have lost their tru spirit and lost the true islamic valour/values of honesty equality tolerance and piety what we see these days is a mixture of materialitic to th world and somewhat afraid to open up the 'world' muslim society.

ISLAM is open to everyone , no one is close from it , s for a muslim women being married in a non-muslim family thats purely unislamic since she wont be able to practise/preach herself or her kids the tru vlues of Islam in other words it forbidden for man/women to marry a non muslim until unless the other parrtner accepts islam.

SIMPLE AS THAT.

Quote[/b] ]Second, while US troops were stationed in SA, the commanders ordered female troops to go out with a male counter part to avoid some SArabians from complaining that a white woman doing her job on streets alone would not be appropriate.

As i said ignorant and ancient bastards are filled here in my country sadly , dont take their words for what ISLAM tells. This idea is seriously ridiculous .

Quote[/b] ]Muslim clerks always point out that it is US's fault for something bad happening, but they fail to regulate themselves as decribed above. Even our muslim forum members say that they are not supposed to be that way, but that's just a sentence, and next thing you notice is that they go on how evil US is and in some sense it is US's fault.

Muslim cleric in Saudi Arabia have no right to pass a political remark very much correct since politics isnt everyones play ground , if this happens in other places its VERY WRONG.

As for the US well we know they arent virgins thmselves especially when their f**** foreign policy always manages to f*** up someother place.

Besides if i might remind you the US is the one whos asked the pakistani ISI to re-write the Quran very moral that was

Quote[/b] ]Furthermore, what 911 showed was that muslims need to get themselves straghtened out. Muslims say they are peaceful, but when the two buildings colapsed, there were chanting throughout the Arab world. If Islamic teaching is forbidding such action, why did these people chant OBL and still not take actions against him better?

I dunno about you but dont blame us for it , the reason this happpens is purely because people are sick of americas deciitfulness , and double dealings so if it hurts you no wonder most of them will b happy ven though according to muslim ethics 9/11 was a major crime.

Besides dont i see many wanna b american game boy kiddies laughing when they supposedly kill a stereotypical afghan terrorist or a Iraqi (bad dude ) in some game isnt that racist too?

Quote[/b] ]If we turn this argument around, the Crusades and colonization of ME can be justified. The christianity is a religion of peace and does not promote such actions as well as islam does. So it is unfortunate that some people used Christianity as an excuse, but it is not the way christianity should be.

WTF is this do you seriously know about Islamic idelas on wars and how to deal with different crisis's ? Ismal doesnt promotes any wrong action get your fatcs straight before you blame my religion without any reasonable facst except for a burnt our phrase coming out of a jealous(maybe) mouth.

I'd really love to see Muslims open up and have churchs right next to mosques, QUOTE]

This is allowed and always has been if govts done follow it what can i say?

[Acecombat 0]

Quote[/b] ]Egypt, as well as Turkey seems to be a good example of how Islam can reinvent itself. My colleague's roommate is from Turkey and he is a muslim, but do i see him dating 3 women? no. He is quite secular and so is his parent(whom i had chance to meet).

No way can either of those nations be classified of how good a muslim nation can be , besides its your opinion of what a good muslim country can be and i'd rather stick to another persons opinion who holds knowledge in Islamic LAWs and regulations .

[python3 0]

Quote[/b] ]Furthermore, what 911 showed was that muslims need to get themselves straghtened out. Muslims say they are peaceful, but when the two buildings colapsed, there were chanting throughout the Arab world. If Islamic teaching is forbidding such action, why did these people chant OBL and still not take actions against him better?

yes, that the truth. a lot did chant. I honestly cannot and ,of course, will not sit here and defend their chants. They were pleased with what happened cuz they tie the U.S. into the whole palestinian conflict. The unconditional support for israel and all, it gets them aggravated. Anyway, they saw him as a figure who would stand up for them, unlike their governments. It wasn't until the terror attacks came back to them that they realized obl was a bastard and is no savior. Its real strange and sad. It (the quran) says suicide i wrong, yet they support 9/11. When u ask them if the prophet would get on a plane and comit suicide they stay silent. They are brainwashed fools. They need better governments, one with their interest in mind. They focus the people on the plight of the muslim world, at the hands of the christans for example, to distract from the sh!t hole they live in.

Quote[/b] ]First, muslims around the world seems to be more closed than they claim to be. My colleagues from India(Hindus) made comments that in India, Muslims are the most segregated sector. they won't let other religions enter their family. When a Hindu woman marries a muslim, she is asked to convert, while as muslim woman are not allowed to, or say at least discouraged from marrying someone outside and convert to husband's religion

Muslim women cannot marry non muslims, thats the religion.

Quote[/b] ]I really want to know why SA won't look happily on Christian missionaries there

Mecca and Medina, at least in my opinion. They need to preserve Islam especially for those 2 cities for the entire muslim population and future muslims to come.

There are 1.3 billion muslims on planet earth. lets say 10,000 are considered terrorists. It is a lot but not as many when compared to 1.3billion. I dont see 1.3 billon muslims taking up arms and rising against the west. Religion is sent down by God. Man does not always follow it as he should. Islam forbids the killing of civilians, regardless of any war, a muslim should not slaughter women + children. I know it is hard to comprehend, it is like this, yet they do that. Well there are many muslims living by weterners in their countries. They do not take hostile action against each other. Like i say, practice what you like, i practice what i like as long as our practices dont hurt each other. That is my situataion here inthe U.S.. Those that get on tv, the ones chanting, are the vocal minority. The rest went to work to earn a buck to feed their kids like the rest of the world.

[Acecombat 0]

Quote[/b] ]The poiny was here that it is possible to do so, within the limits of Islam, and im sure many people are using that oppoturnity.

No theres no possibility of IT !

How can you deal with 3-4 women JUSTLY and IN PERFECT EQUALITY no way in hell were a human bound to make a mistake thats why the Quran gave this analogy so 'you' can understand th reason behind not allowing it.

Now that is how YOU interpritate it. I am sure there are other interpritations about the issue. What makes you think that your interpritation is the best and the only one? Is Islam like you say it is or should we look at it as a religion of masses instead of looking your interpritation on the issue.

No its not a interpretation its a direct deduction of a crystal clear statement

[turms 0]

Quote[/b] ]No its not a interpretation its a direct deduction of a crystal clear statement

direct deduction (made by you).

Edit: damn quotes.

[Acecombat 0]

Quote[/b] ]The poiny was here that it is possible to do so, within the limits of Islam, and im sure many people are using that oppoturnity.

No theres no possibility of IT !

How can you deal with 3-4 women JUSTLY and IN PERFECT EQUALITY no way in hell were a human bound to make a mistake thats why the Quran gave this analogy so 'you' can understand th reason behind not allowing it.

Now that is how YOU interpritate it. I am sure there are other interpritations about the issue. What makes you think that your interpritation is the best and the only one? Is Islam like you say it is or should we look at it as a religion of masses instead of looking your interpritation on the issue.

No its not a interpretation its a direct deduction of a crystal clear statement  

Quote[/b] ]No its not a interpretation its a direct deduction of a crystal clear statement

direct deduction (made by you).

Not only me but many imminent scholars through out the arab world and IIRC some caliphs too ...

Now quit arguing over such a obvious thing

[denoir 0]

I'm off to bed now. Thanks for a good debate guys and gals.

The last time I remember having such a big discussion was about six months before the Iraq war when Bush was doing a state visit to Germany. It was an effort that people will be writing tales about long after I'm gone: For six hours I alone fought off a dozen very pro-Bush Americans and two Germans who wanted to be "good hosts". I came up on top  

Although this discussion wasn't at all similar to that one I gained some useful insights and surprised myself by running off to the nationalist right, something I never thought would happen  

Anyway, good discussion  

[python3 0]

yes yes, nothing like a debate to see the other sides concerns huh?

well if there is one thing we can all agree on, is that we all enjoy OfP!

[turms 0]

Quote[/b] ]Not only me but many imminent scholars through out the arab world and IIRC some caliphs too ...

Now quit arguing over such a obvious thing

I can say much as many imminent scholars through out the arab world ´+ 1 that say a man can have 3-4 wives, its just a matter of how you read the rules, get this to your head: your truth is not the truth about islam.

I will not continue this, becouse i like this thread and want to keep it open ;)

[ralphwiggum 6]

Woman are not being degraded the way i see it women might be being degarded in america    , but thats personal opinions , islamic laws dont degrade a women all have equal rights.

Muahhmeds words in his last sermon:

"Your wives have rights over you and you have rights over your wives both are equal" . A women in islam is treated as a equal but as a FEMALE member    , theres a difference there.

Then why is not there drivers license granted for women, and Arabs are infuriated that white women walking around showing her flesh is attack on Islam?

Quote[/b] ]

Ofcourse most are close because we have been riddled with foolish leaders and lead by a bunch of goons after the original caliphate ended , muslims have lost their tru spirit and lost the true islamic valour/values of honesty equality tolerance and piety what we see these days is a mixture of materialitic to th world and somewhat afraid to open up the 'world' muslim society.

I think this post summarizes my point. Muslims are afraind to take care of the situation. they are not strong enough to deal with materialism. furthermore, they lost their true spirit and values. so in reality, what they practice now is not a true Islam, but a broken one. Then how can you mention Islam when the one that is in place right now are nothing more than a misled version of it? I think citing Islam under above given situation is nothing but CS claiming to be OFP.

Quote[/b] ]ISLAM is open to everyone , no one is close from it , s for a muslim women being married in a non-muslim family thats purely unislamic since she wont be able to practise/preach herself or her kids the tru vlues of Islam in other words it forbidden for man/women to marry a non muslim until unless the other parrtner accepts islam.

SIMPLE AS THAT.

and that is closed. how about some Christian saying that other heathens should not marry Christians until they convert? same deal. there are several non-muslim women who marry into muclim family, but will be pushed to convert, while as exit from it is not as easy as conversion. so what if a daughter raised in islam household, decided to marry a christian, and want her to convert to christianity, would that be a rpoblem? yes. according to your arguments, Islam should be the foremost object of conversion, no the otherway around. that is being closed.

Quote[/b] ]As i said ignorant and ancient bastards are filled here in my country sadly , dont take their words for what ISLAM tells. This idea is seriously ridiculous .

better off, please tell them yourselves. may be you can teach the true meanign of Allah's word to them.

Quote[/b] ]Muslim cleric in Saudi Arabia have no right to pass a political remark very much correct since politics isnt everyones play ground , if this happens in other places its VERY WRONG.

As for the US well we know they arent virgins thmselves especially when their f**** foreign policy always manages to f*** up someother place.

Besides if i might remind you the US is the one whos asked the pakistani ISI to re-write the Quran very moral that was

and it happened, and will. although sharias are not publicly condeming US, they don't hesistate to do so if they can. just after 9-11, i heard less of "Blast those bastards who deface the name of Allah" then "US got what it asked for."

even in your post, you talk about how bad US is, while giving a mere slap on the wrist on the likes of OBL.

Quote[/b] ]I dunno about you but dont blame us for it , the reason this happpens is purely because people are sick of americas deciitfulness , and double dealings so if it hurts you no wonder most of them will b happy ven though according to muslim ethics 9/11 was a major crime.

Besides dont i see many wanna b american game boy kiddies laughing when they supposedly kill a stereotypical afghan terrorist or a Iraqi (bad dude ) in some game isnt that racist too?

yes, you are to be blamed, are you telling me that CIA paid those people to dance on the street? if your claim of true islam is applied, it should be that these people tak about how they are misrepresented, not chanting. It is always easier to blame foreign country, and it goes for every nation.

furthermore, you want to make a game that sells? make something that is at least intriguing. one reason why I like OFP is that it was more close to neutral when it came to story line(although most Russian memebers don't think so ). HOw about those muslim kiddies that want to kill Americans on games? only difference is that its the other way around. while you are comdeming the idiotic nature of such games, when it's in your advange, you don't think it's wrong.

Quote[/b] ]WTF is this do you seriously know about Islamic idelas on wars and how to deal with different crisis's ? Ismal doesnt promotes any wrong action get your fatcs straight before you blame my religion without any reasonable facst except for a burnt our phrase coming out of a jealous(maybe) mouth.

How about the fact that Muslims were able to get to Spain through North Africa? are you saying they were merely misisonaries? no. they were there with swords. if Charlemagne did not defeat them in Spain, the muslim warriors would have gone further. are you saying that is ok? is that a some lie that europeans concocted? I guess Eastern Roman empire decided to abandon their defense and let Islamic solders march in.

and also, the quote you replied was to show how unfitting your argument of pure Islam is in place right now, and should not be held accountable.

Quote[/b] ]This is allowed and always has been if govts done follow it what can i say?

beg your king to open one up.

[ralphwiggum 6]

Quote[/b] ]Egypt, as well as Turkey seems to be a good example of how Islam can reinvent itself. My colleague's roommate is from Turkey and he is a muslim, but do i see him dating 3 women? no.  He is quite secular and so is his parent(whom i had chance to meet).

No way can either of those nations be classified of how good a muslim nation can be , besides its your opinion of what a good muslim country can be and i'd rather stick to another persons opinion who holds knowledge in Islamic LAWs and regulations .

so is this not being closed?

[python3 0]

Quote[/b] ]Muslims are afraind to take care of the situation. they are not strong enough to deal with materialism. furthermore, they lost their true spirit and values. so in reality, what they practice now is not a true Islam, but a broken one. Then how can you mention Islam when the one that is in place right now are nothing more than a misled version of it? I think citing Islam under above given situation is nothing but CS claiming to be OFP.

well, its not that they are not strong enough to deal with materialism, im dealing fine over her in the US. Its that they are not strong enough to get rid of those who oppress them at the moment. The reason we can say that islam is peaceful because like i said in the post above, im not out to kill any of you. Neither is my family in Egypt. Neither are their friends. If that was the case, all the tourists in Egypt would unfortunately be in the news. Thank god this is not the case. WE NEED YOUR MONEY . Most of the 1.3 try to find the middle path, modernizing but remaining religious. It is hard, very hard. But again, the majority are not in the news, and millions of muslims have not flocked to Iraq to kill the great satan.